[QUOTE=PredGD;41614899]E2 isn't part of this gamemode though. adding programming kind of defeats the meaning of "easy to learn, hard to master".[/QUOTE]
To be honest, how many players DON'T have Wirermod now? It became so popular, that it is almost an integral part of Gmod. And by "programming language" I didn't mean anything as complicated as e2, maybe some more advanced "if" statements would be the hardest part. What Strideynet said is almost exactly my point - a kind of automation, and as I said,some upgrades should be available through this. Upgrades because just finding a best module, though difficult and time-consuming, is just... well... a matter of time. When some simple coding is involved, ship potential also depends on crew's skill in programming using ship's language, thus allowing for more variety.
I don't really think that bringing coding into the game is a very good idea. First of all it is too complicated for players who maybe are not that skilled at lua/e2 and therefore this might become an unfair disadvantage for them. Not everyone is a coder so stuff like lua/e2 as a game element will not work out. Of course it would be cool to have automated systems or some kind of AI, but think about it: The game is about organizing as a crew, not creating an AI that does all the work for you. Apart from that, how long do you think would it take for the code of a powerful AI to be published on forums, and therefore resulting in a lot of people copying it?
In my opinion there shouldn't be such a programming element.
[QUOTE=Imonek;41622362]To be honest, how many players DON'T have Wirermod now? It became so popular, that it is almost an integral part of Gmod. And by "programming language" I didn't mean anything as complicated as e2, maybe some more advanced "if" statements would be the hardest part. What Strideynet said is almost exactly my point - a kind of automation, and as I said,some upgrades should be available through this. Upgrades because just finding a best module, though difficult and time-consuming, is just... well... a matter of time. When some simple coding is involved, ship potential also depends on crew's skill in programming using ship's language, thus allowing for more variety.[/QUOTE]
and how many of the wiremod users have even learned E2? just because everyone has wiremod doesn't mean that everyone knows how to use it.
learning statements, classes, methods, you name it, requires dedication and time, some more than others. even if there are only simple methods used you'll still have to read a few guides or tutorials to learn how to use it properly. the point with "easy to learn, hard to master" is that players should be capable of jumping straight into the game and quickly figuring out how the mechanics work out. this is not the case with programming, not even a simple or dumbed down language
[QUOTE=PredGD;41622925]and how many of the wiremod users have even learned E2? just because everyone has wiremod doesn't mean that everyone knows how to use it.
learning statements, classes, methods, you name it, requires dedication and time, some more than others. even if there are only simple methods used you'll still have to read a few guides or tutorials to learn how to use it properly. the point with "easy to learn, hard to master" is that players should be capable of jumping straight into the game and quickly figuring out how the mechanics work out. this is not the case with programming, not even a simple or dumbed down language[/QUOTE]
While what you said is absolutely true, I would never disconnect from the server until I managed to learn some advanced/difficult part of a game(mode) I had troubles with before.
[QUOTE=khuba;41622959]While what you said is absolutely true, I would never disconnect from the server until I managed to learn some advanced/difficult part of a game(mode) I had troubles with before.[/QUOTE]
problem is that the playerbase of gmod wants something fun and easy to learn. not everyone is willing to sit down and start reading tutorials on how programming works just to be able to play properly like everyone else in there.
A question on the ships weaponsystem: Will the ship have a static set of weapons which never changes or will there be NPC-shops from where you can buy new weapons/system upgrades like in FTL?
NPC-Shops could be spacestations on which you can transport and do your business. The weapons themself could be represented by a weaponsmodule similar to the room modules.
Maybe something like CheckEm or like LittleBigPlanet?
A simple If This Then That like system could work I think.
[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41623000]A question on the ships weaponsystem: Will the ship have a static set of weapons which never changes or will there be NPC-shops from where you can buy new weapons/system upgrades like in FTL?
NPC-Shops could be spacestations on which you can transport and do your business. The weapons themself could be represented by a weaponsmodule similar to the room modules.[/QUOTE]
We've got weapon modules just as you suggest, which are salvageable like the room modules.
In regards to adding a programming element to the game; I would only feel comfortable adding it if the benefits were small enough to not cause too much of a disadvantage to players who are not already programmers, but at that point it wouldn't be worth the huge amount of work it would take to implement.
[editline]28th July 2013[/editline]
Although as a programmer I would love to play around with something like that. I guess I'll just wait for 0x10^c.
[QUOTE=Ziks;41624124]We've got weapon modules just as you suggest, which are salvageable like the room modules. [/QUOTE]
Nice, will we be able to see them in a video soon? :D
[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41624268]Nice, will we be able to see them in a video soon? :D[/QUOTE]
Weapons is coming along quite well, so we may show it next after the Q&A part 2.
Have you guys every thought about a player controlled AI like in Space Station 13
[QUOTE=MisterSjeiks;41624768]Have you guys every thought about a player controlled AI like in Space Station 13[/QUOTE]
I have never played SS13, but judging from this article [ [url]http://spacestation13.wikia.com/wiki/AI[/url] ] I think that it contradicts with the general idea of Final Frontier. You are supposed to work together with your crewmembers, and in order to enforce that, a player is limited in the way he is. In order to succeed you have to coordinate with your team and do your assigned tasks. Anything that has to do with either programming or AIs is working against this particular idea because it takes away the effort of teamwork and instead focusses on automating and taking away neccessary work.
So other than missiles what other weapons can we except to see? Or would there also be different types of missiles like a breech missile from FTL?
[QUOTE=5000kit;41627076]So other than missiles what other weapons can we except to see? Or would there also be different types of missiles like a breech missile from FTL?[/QUOTE]
I'm just writing the laser base code now, are there any other types of weapon you would like to see?
We're going to have many different classes of missile and laser with different properties, just like in FTL. For example, here's the code of one of the missiles to show what is currently configurable:
[code]WPN.BaseName = "missilebase"
WPN.MaxTier = 5
WPN.MaxPower = { 1, 3 }
WPN.MaxCharge = { 8, 16 }
WPN.ShotCharge = { 8, 12 }
WPN.Homing = true
WPN.Speed = { 1 / 16, 1 / 16 }
WPN.Lateral = { 1, 1 }
WPN.LifeTime = { 6, 8 }
WPN.BaseDamage = { 10, 50 }
WPN.PierceRatio = { 0, 0 }
WPN.ShieldMult = { 4, 4 }
if CLIENT then
WPN.FullName = "Janus Missile"
WPN.Color = Color(255, 255, 255, 255)
end[/code]
The pairs of values are the minimum and maximum values of those properties which are assumed by the first and last tiers respectively, and interpolated for tiers in between.
[QUOTE=Ziks;41628003]I'm just writing the laser base code now, are there any other types of weapon you would like to see?
We're going to have many different classes of missile and laser with different properties, just like in FTL. For example, here's the code of one of the missiles to show what is currently configurable:
[code]WPN.BaseName = "missilebase"
WPN.MaxTier = 5
WPN.MaxPower = { 1, 3 }
WPN.MaxCharge = { 8, 16 }
WPN.ShotCharge = { 8, 12 }
WPN.Homing = true
WPN.Speed = { 1 / 16, 1 / 16 }
WPN.Lateral = { 1, 1 }
WPN.LifeTime = { 6, 8 }
WPN.BaseDamage = { 10, 50 }
WPN.PierceRatio = { 0, 0 }
WPN.ShieldMult = { 4, 4 }
if CLIENT then
WPN.FullName = "Janus Missile"
WPN.Color = Color(255, 255, 255, 255)
end[/code]
The pairs of values are the minimum and maximum values of those properties which are assumed by the first and last tiers respectively, and interpolated for tiers in between.[/QUOTE]
Looks and sounds good to me!
More Weapon ideas:
-A Beamweapon which drains energy over time
-Explosives which can be teleported aboard the enemyship
-Electromagnetic scrambler which temporarily can disable a systems console (But not the system itself)
-(As previously suggested) An antimatterbeam which can create an endpoint for wormholes
Some sort of weapon that either drawns power into nothingness or drains power from their craft onto yours.
[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41628435]More Weapon ideas:
-A Beamweapon which drains energy over time
-Explosives which can be teleported aboard the enemyship
-Electromagnetic scrambler which temporarily can disable a systems console (But not the system itself)
-(As previously suggested) An antimatterbeam which can create an endpoint for wormholes[/QUOTE]
Some of these ideas sound pretty good though why would you need an antimatter beam
Because wormholes are awesome and I think a game like this should have one of some kind (If possible what I am pretty sure of). Since it connects two points in the universe that are very far apart it becomes a strategic point and surely will result in a few awesome fights.
Which brings me up to another question: How big will the 2D-map actually be? Will there be multiple spawn points with different kinds of ships? Is the world even big enough for wormholes to make sense?
I guess since the 2D-World is not bound to the same restrictions as the actual map, you could potentially create a map generator, similar to minecraft which keeps generating pieces of the world as you progress. There would be lot of stuff to explore. Is that possible?
[B]I have 6 questions:[/B]
[B]1[/B]. For the hand held weapons will there be a stunning type (or setting) weapon (like a taser)?
[B]2[/B]. Will there be a holding cell for the people that you capture with your stunning weapon to ransom back?
[B]3[/B]. Will the holding cell have a torture device to get certain information out of them (console node combinations and other such things)?
[B]4[/B]. Will it be like in the strategy game Star Wars: Empire at War and FTL : Where projectiles go through shields?
[B]5[/B]. Will there be Anomalies like a super nova damaging one's systems or a black hole making projectiles pull in to it at a close range or something like that?
[B]6[/B]. What would happen after a person dies do they stay in medbay for like 20 min. or something else?
[QUOTE=Lrheaume;41633693][B]I have 6 questions:[/B]
[B]1[/B]. For the hand held weapons will there be a stunning type (or setting) weapon (like a taser)?
[B]2[/B]. Will there be a holding cell for the people that you capture with your stunning weapon to ransom back?
[B]3[/B]. Will the holding cell have a torture device to get certain information out of them (console node combinations and other such things)?
[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I think most players would just reconnect to the server, because people dont like to be held a prisoner. If you need people out of the way, just kill them, that is still more enjoyable than being forced to sit in a room and do nothing. I can guess that many people would even ragequit.
[QUOTE=Lrheaume;41633693][B]6[/B]. What would happen after a person dies do they stay in medbay for like 20 min. or something else?[/QUOTE]
I guess when they are dead they will simply respawn at a spacestation, same argmument as above: People hate doing nothing. Maybe there will be a possibility of reanimation after a VERY short time of going zero HP. If reanimation fails you are dead and will respawn.
how will space instances be done? if it's not set yet, have you guys considered to make 5 or 6 different instances in space? like, if two ships are close to each other all the entities and all of the players will be teleported over to the instance of two ships next to each other. blahblah, fighting ensues, pilot pilots away and everyone will be teleported to an instance where there is only a ship (their own color) all alone in space
i'm no modder or programmer, so i'm not sure if this is gonna work but eh, just an idea
What you suggest sounds rather weird to me. Can you explain further? You know that the ships themself don't move but are represented by a set of coordinates in a 2D-universe. All the combat and all the flying are actually done virtually on the 2D-Map, which is more flexible and easier to use for the devs.
[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41635041]What you suggest sounds rather weird to me. Can you explain further? You know that the ships themself don't move but are represented by a set of coordinates in a 2D-universe. All the combat and all the flying are actually done virtually on the 2D-Map, which is more flexible and easier to use for the devs.[/QUOTE]
basically there would be pre-made locations for each of the instances. the 2D map would then define where the players would be located. if the 2D map tells the game that it's close to another ship, then all of the ships players would be transported to the instance with the ships.
right now EVA walk and windows are impossible due to there actually not being any space. both EVA walk and windows would be possible if there were pre-built instances for encounters, exploring, asteroid belts, you name it.
Ah I see where you are going with this now. I am not really sure if it is doable and if it is a good solution for the problem you state.
First of all it is a lot of work and it might not even work very well. You will have to make sure there are enough pre-made combat locations for all ships that also match the many different visuals the game is gonna have. Apart from that, if you had windows you would always see the same positioning of ships which would be ridiculous. I don't really think it is worth the effort not even for EVA because that itself is another complicated mechanic to create. The best solutions are the ones that are simple and work well. While the 2D-Map may lack the abilities to show the combat from a birds-exe view like you are maybe used to from Scifi-Series/Films, it suits best for the actual fight aswell as creating a better immersion. If you ever played Silent Hunter without the external cameras, you know what I am talking about.
edit: Talking of Silent Hunter, is there the possibility of a cloak module (Would use a BIG LOT of Energy ofc)?
Here is what I propose for the respawn system.
Obviously being spawned right back onto a ship you just died on would be very immersion breaking, and unfair if you were still battling another ship.
I think there should be some sort of spawn system similar to puzzle pirates. Captains of the ship can put up a "job offer" and people at spawn can choose to apply to join by clicking a button. Ultimately whoever is in charge of a ship can individually choose to let someone on board or not. If they do, they can be teleported straight to the ship.
Of course there would still be the option of just joining ships at spawn that haven't left yet too.
Obviously you aren't allowed to hire people while you're in combat as that would be unfair. Ideally there would be some sort of system to prevent this (like if two ships are within proximity of each other, or waiting a minute after weapons have been fired).
I don't know how difficult this would be to code as I'm not a coder.
I think this system would work because if random people you joined just began logging off you can hire some new ones instead of just logging off and restarting the whole process again.
[B]Edit:[/B] I also wanted to add that if you're playing with a group of friends and one of them dies, this way you can keep playing with the same people instead of having them die off one by one.
[QUOTE=Conspirator;41637227]I think there should be some sort of spawn system similar to puzzle pirates. Captains of the ship can put up a "job offer" and people at spawn can choose to apply to join by clicking a button. Ultimately whoever is in charge of a ship can individually choose to let someone on board or not. If they do, they can be teleported straight to the ship.
[/QUOTE]
I like the idea in general but I think you still should do the effort of fetching your crewmembers at a spacestation yourself. It would be odd to find people teleporting on your ship out of nowhere. It heavily breaks the immersion to teleport new crewmembers half across the galaxy. For me games like FTL and Silent Hunter (It's about submarines, but it is a good comparision for what Final Frontier is going to be) have their strong points by creating the feel of isolation while on a mission. In FTL you would have to manage your ressources until you reach the next store or be stranded in space.
[QUOTE=Conspirator;41637227]
Edit: I also wanted to add that if you're playing with a group of friends and one of them dies, this way you can keep playing with the same people instead of having them die off one by one. [/QUOTE]
If you just could teleport all of your friends back on your ship at any time, it inflates the meaning of death. Of course it can be possible to get friends back to the crew, but instant reteleport back on the ship? That doesn't seem right for me, and I can imagine that this might cause minor issues. For an easy solution there could be a single spacestation (at spawn) but with many different teleporting beacons on the 2D-Map. It keeps up the immersion and makes recruiting from spacestations a lot easier without ridiculous transports. Just visit one of these stations and welcome your crewmembers personally. I belive it can strengthen the teamfeeling
I was thinking about windows and stuff, and as a possible work around, you could replicate the exterior of the two ships, but on a much smaller scale. Then, attach cameras onto the outsides of the smaller ships where the windows would be, and finally place the windows (which would actually be screens) on the inside of the actual ships. That way it would look like there were two ships in space moving about each other, when really they were both still and it would be two smaller models moving about.
I can't explain it properly, but I hope I managed to get the point across.
Will this be something privately owned? Or like, are you putting up a download once it's released.
[QUOTE=howling techie;41637461]I was thinking about windows and stuff, and as a possible work around, you could replicate the exterior of the two ships, but on a much smaller scale. Then, attach cameras onto the outsides of the smaller ships where the windows would be, and finally place the windows (which would actually be screens) on the inside of the actual ships. That way it would look like there were two ships in space moving about each other, when really they were both still and it would be two smaller models moving about.
I can't explain it properly, but I hope I managed to get the point across.[/QUOTE]The problem is, that Garrys Mod is not flexible enough to even move smallscale-replicas around like that. Even if that would succeed, the actual gameworld is 2D so you couldn't see anything spectacular, it would even look a little odd since the ships cannot change their height. It would look like actual ships in an invisible ocean. You will maybe have to live with the fact, that there will be nothing like windows until the standalone is coming.
[QUOTE=pilot;41637512]Will this be something privately owned? Or like, are you putting up a download once it's released.[/QUOTE]
The gamemode will be publicly available once everything works and has been tested by the devs. Also since it is a gamemode you will probably just have to join a server with that gamemode installed.
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