Final Frontier - Garry's Mod

[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41637389]I like the idea in general but I think you still should do the effort of fetching your crewmembers at a spacestation yourself. It would be odd to find people teleporting on your ship out of nowhere. It heavily breaks the immersion to teleport new crewmembers half across the galaxy. For me games like FTL and Silent Hunter (It's about submarines, but it is a good comparision for what Final Frontier is going to be) have their strong points by creating the feel of isolation while on a mission. In FTL you would have to manage your ressources until you reach the next store or be stranded in space. If you just could teleport all of your friends back on your ship at any time, it inflates the meaning of death. Of course it can be possible to get friends back to the crew, but instant reteleport back on the ship? That doesn't seem right for me, and I can imagine that this might cause minor issues. For an easy solution there could be a single spacestation (at spawn) but with many different teleporting beacons on the 2D-Map. It keeps up the immersion and makes recruiting from spacestations a lot easier without ridiculous transports. Just visit one of these stations and welcome your crewmembers personally. I belive it can strengthen the teamfeeling[/QUOTE] Yes, the only downside to this system is some immersion breaking. Perhaps it can be left up to the person running the server.

it'd be nice to get an input from ziks regarding how that will work. if a new Q&A video is coming along (referring to part 2) then that will be my question. how will you guys implement space and the exterior hull for ships? will it ever change or will it remain as it currently is?

The respawn system we intended to implement is pretty much what you suggested, with a main spawn station that players can transport to each ship from. A boarding request would be accepted or rejected from the transporter room. The main difference is that boarding would be disabled for a few minutes after a ship takes damage, so eliminating crew members during a battle has a more profound effect. I was also thinking about an optional permadeath mode where if you die you get banned from the server for like an hour. The requirement of visiting the spawn station / spawn beacons to be able to accept new crewmembers is nice for a few reasons, but we would have to think a bit about how these locations would work. Would it be a forced no-fire zone? Otherwise, would you just get people waiting for new ships to leave and then attack them? If two ships are fighting nearby, would one be able to dock and never worry about losing crew members?

I would say that the spacestations should pretty much stay no-fire zones, simply because it is the main hub for new players. I'll think of some ideas what to add to the spacestation, so that ones stay is not too boring. You could also integrate a general supply shop at the spacestation. The problem of getting attacked on the station shortly after joining a ship should not be existent, and here is why. If you design the spacestation as a static spaceship, one could beam people in from its orbit, just like you have shown in the teleporter video. The captain then can recruit someone and transport back on board, while the remaining crew keep observing sensors for enemy ships. It is VERY important that there will be multiple nodes in the universe from where you can teleport to the station, so nobody is able to camp in front of the station. The multiple nodes would represent multiple Spacestations, but in reality there is only one, the spawnhub. I wouldn't create a permadeath that bans you for an hour. It is rather ridiculous and people might just ragequit. It would be perfectly fine if they just spawned and had to wait for their ship. This has following advantages: -No teleporting abuse -More reasonable -People give more effort on surviving -Actual consequences for death resulting in additional work for the crew to do, rather than frustrating punishing -People are encouraged to explore and learn where the Spacestations are Ideas for elements/events on the spacestation: -A Tutorialroom for new players, which quickly runs through all core systems -A map of the universe (local area wouldn't work, because the spacestation itself doesn't have a fixed location; Ships shouldn't be shown on it, since it is only a map, not a sensor array) -A few minigames which can be played either alone or with other people on the station -Subspace communication: Talk with ships which are far away (Don't know how to implement channeled text-/voicechat; possible?). Can maybe implemented by a Communication Console, which can be used with a keyboard. -NPC-Stores and trading with players (requires some sort of currency) PS: If you want to implement some kind of permadeath, simply take all their items and money away, so they will have to start over again. It gives a motivation to survive and doesn't punish to hard, similar to FTL

[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41639171]-Snip-[/QUOTE] I would agree with your ideas on the spawn hub and its features. It would be nice to have shops for players to used to buy weapons/armour/parts/ships etc. However (I'm not a coder, but this seems logical to me), I think I'm right in saying that there can only be a few ships on one server at a time. Seeing as this game mode seems to be built for many people to play on (I would say 50+ players), it may become crowded if the ship limit is reached.

[QUOTE=musketeer;41647638]I would agree with your ideas on the spawn hub and its features. It would be nice to have shops for players to used to buy weapons/armour/parts/ships etc. However (I'm not a coder, but this seems logical to me), I think I'm right in saying that there can only be a few ships on one server at a time. Seeing as this game mode seems to be built for many people to play on (I would say 50+ players), it may become crowded if the ship limit is reached.[/QUOTE] Since the ships are actually part of the map, you are limited to the amount of ships so 50 is a reasonable bet as that would be between 10 to 20 people per ship which sounds good (20 at max judging by the size of a ship). As for the space station. I assume there will be stores where you can buy ship supplies but there's nothing to stop someone doing something like pointshop or something RP like and allowing people to customise their character with different hats, playermodels and of course, personal weapons. There is also the fun things that can be implemented like an arcade system etc to keep people happy. @Mezzokoko - I agree with not having a ban time as then we are venturing into warz..survivor...whatever grounds. However your space station elements would be harder to do for your first 2 points. -A tutorial room is totally up to the mapper / server owner as all servers will likely be different (some RP, some action). Therefore it would be easier just to allow people to link players to their website or to have Xplay on the server with a tutorial video or something made by the server owners and not the mappers. -A map of the universe is also a difficult thing as you do realise this is mostly a ship battle gamemode and space is 3 dimensional. This would have to be a custom texture or more simply, the server owner or mapper could include a rough image which can be uploaded to the server by the server owner and displayed on a wall.

[QUOTE=GTbrawlers;41648100][...] However your space station elements would be harder to do for your first 2 points. -A tutorial room is totally up to the mapper / server owner as all servers will likely be different (some RP, some action). Therefore it would be easier just to allow people to link players to their website or to have Xplay on the server with a tutorial video or something made by the server owners and not the mappers. -A map of the universe is also a difficult thing as you do realise this is mostly a ship battle gamemode and space is 3 dimensional. This would have to be a custom texture or more simply, the server owner or mapper could include a rough image which can be uploaded to the server by the server owner and displayed on a wall.[/QUOTE] Space is actually not 3D in this gamemode, if you carefully watched the videos. The actual universe is a virtual 2D map which is not bound to the actual 3D-Mapping in which the ships and stations will be created. So in order to render a map of the universe, you would simply have to access the 2D-Universe and place Icons on the places of interesting events. That shouldn't be a problem to do. If people will create custom maps (and I bet sure they will) there is the question, if they simply want to create a new 2D-universe or completely new stations. I am not sure but I bet you can seperate these things in 2 independent files, which allows for more flexibility for the mappers. This way you can add single ships or create new universal scenarios (Maybe like a faction war, with huge fleets and wars, awesome right? :D). Also I think while ship battles are the main focus of Final Frontier, there also can be a lot of sidequests to make some progress without fighting. This is especially important if you start with a new ship that barely has any weapons.

Q: Im willing to buy Gmod to play this mod but im worried that you will go to a standalone version of Final frontier and i will have to pay again.

I guess when the standalone will be released there will still be a couple of people playing this. Also it takes a lot of time to develop a standalonegame. My recommendation for you is to wait until gmod is 75% off, it only costs a few bucks then :)

[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41650560]I guess when the standalone will be released there will still be a couple of people playing this. Also it takes a lot of time to develop a standalonegame. My recommendation for you is to wait until gmod is 75% off, it only costs a few bucks then :)[/QUOTE] Thanks, if im correct, last time it was 2 bucks. Yeah And also, is there a way to get informed when something is on sale? I dont visit Steam every day and i dont wanna miss out any sale on GMOD

[QUOTE=kryshi;41650669]Thanks, if im correct, last time it was 2 bucks. Yeah And also, is there a way to get informed when something is on sale? I dont visit Steam every day and i dont wanna miss out any sale on GMOD[/QUOTE] If you add it to your wishlist you can get email alerts when the game is on sale.

A few more ideas for the spacestation, assuming there will be some sort of currency (being referred to as credits in the rest of the post): -A few jobs you can have, like transporterroom guy, engineer and security officer. Just something quick to bridge the station time. ----Engineer: Obviously a spacestation needs someone who takes care of technical problems. There could be special quests or puzzles, that earn the player some amount of credits. ----Transporterroomguy: He is responsible for sending visitors back to their ship and making sure, that Engineers cannot smuggle spacestationmodules on board. ----Security Officer: Makes sure that all the rules on the spacestation are followed. He also confiscates the weapons in the transporterroom (Maybe with a weaponstrip weapon which requires the target to stand still for a few seconds). When ever someone tries to smuggle modules or use weapons on the station it is his job to either stun or kill the person (lethal force only when neccessary) doing crimes and jail him for a minute aswell as making criminals pay fees. ----Medical Officer: The medical officer has equipment on the station that good like he could never have on a small spacevessel, making it possible to heal and overheal people aswell as giving them one of a few passive abilities in exchange for a few credits (If idea generally accepted I can give you some ideas on that :) ) ----Communications Officer: His task is to relay subspace messages from users to the target ships. In order to do that he does a minigame in which he has to relay the message without losing quality (represented by letters missing etc.). People lose all their abilities and jobs when they enter a ship. These are a few ideas. If this is considered a good suggestion it would need working on it designwise. How can you represent someone implanting a passive augmentation? Would it be required to switch gunfire on on spacestations? Another idea independent from the one above: How about the possibility to choose a Roleplayname for your character? This seems something simple and cool to do :) edit: About dead people and reviving them: If people are below 20 HP they ragdoll and need someone to drag them to the sickbay while they slowly fade into death and lose HP. When a player reaches zero HP he simply dies. It is important that they still can suffer damage from the environment aswell as from other players. edit2: People cannot tell what current health they have until they visit the medstation. Outside it they only have an indicator if they are healthy, wounded or very badly wounded (similar to TTT). Near Death: Bleeding above the grate in the medbay. edit3: When a player is teleported he should be teleported with the object he holds with "use".

Ideas for the concept of a medical officer: Medical officer on a Spaceship: -Healing is mostly done by the patient entering or being pulled into a machine ( being refered as the medpod here ). The medical officer can access the patients data over the console and heal him by playing a minigame that has something to do with medical stuff, like mixing certain chemicals in a certain ratio to heal the patients ( these chemicals can be bought in shops ). -The Medical Officer has a range of syringes which he can use outside the medbay ( e.g. a sedative that boosts HP for a little while to save time when a patient is near death ). He also only has a limited supply of those and must fill his stock at shops Medical officer on a Spacestation: -Can do all things he can on a space ship -Can create mixtures which can overheal -Can implant one augmentation on the patient. Possible augmentations ----Personal shieldgenerator: reduces damage (obviously). The less HP the wearer has the less strong the effect becomes. ----Cortex CPU: Reduces Nodes on overridescreen - Player has reduced HP, because the connection between CPU and brain uses a lot of energy. ----Sensor Cloak: Cannot be spotted on sensors (Would have to carefully think about this, it might be OP but it creates an interesting kind of gameplay. Please give your opinions on this) ----Extended lung capacity: The player can survive a short time without oxygen and has to refill his extra O² once he runs out of air. Otherwise he dies. ----Medical Hand Tool: The player can give others a drastic pulse of Healthboost but he must recharge it in the medpod. ----Cybernetic Legs: Passive Speedboost; Player has reduced HP, because running faster drains more O² ----Cybernetic Arm: Passive: Stronger Melee attacks, slower speed; Active: Can breach one locked door, and has to recharge in the medpod after one use. Players lose their Augmentation on death. Augmentations should also be rather hard to achieve and cost a lot of credits

I don't think you should lose your augs on death - maybe damage them significantly, and when they reach 0 durability you'll need to take them to medbay/engineering bay to fix. Which would be costly, but still less than new aug. Or maybe when your augs are "dead" you'll ned to buy new - no fixing. If player should lose augs on death - make them less costly and easier to find, to prevent situations like working hard for single aug and lose it after 2 minutes because you died. Also for limb augs - it would be really cool if they had a different "texture" for them (think Deus Ex : Human Revoultion, maybe also earlier parts but I'm not sure), but I suppose it would be hard to code. Of course these are just my ideas and feedback, don't take them as "Imonek said this, we must obey!" :P

To be honest I think that Augments should stay something special. It is supposed to take a long time to afford one, and when you finally have one you should still keep the effort to survive. Think of FTL: When you finally have a highly upgraded your ship with all the stuff you ever wanted. And then you get caught in an ion storm and by a bad coincidence you lose EVERYTHING. It is totally ok though, because thats what the game is about. And I think the same idea should be followed in Final Frontier. Other than that Augmentations might become OP if you carry them over after death. Apart from that Ziks wants to do this kinda permadeath-like. And permadeath means: Lose EVERYTHING. I like the idea of having different skins for augmentations. Would be cool to have if that is possible. [OT]Only Human Revolution has this art style in which the arms look robotic. Deus Ex 1 & 2 are further in the future, where Augmentations are done with Nanotechnology and don't require a new arm :)[/OT]

Would there be any airlock doors, as there are on most ships in FTL? If so, and if they were breached, would the ship begin to leak atmosphere, even through doors as in FTL? And, if the doors ARE breachable, would explosive decompression be an issue?

[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41661315]some text here[/QUOTE] I see your point. But remember that FTL is singleplayer only, and this is going to be a multiplayer gamemode. Losing augumentations on death leaves a spot for people to abuse - i.e. "u can only join our ship with augs" and when you join them they kill you(assuming friendly fire is on :P But even without it, minges will surely find a way to kill you) and say "sorry, sorry didnt want to, come join us again" and scenario repeats itself. Kinda like TTT from my experience. Also, with my idea of damaging augumentations instead of removing them, you would still have to keep effort of being alive. Either to keep implants at full strength and not have some weak thing that costs thousands and gives nothing, or just to save money by not having to repair it/buy new one after each battle.

Such assholes tend to come only alone, while a group of people on a ship should mostly be nice enough not to pull off such things. It wouldn't even pay out for them. I would rather recruit someone with augs than killing him, because that might give me an advantage in battle. Also I think if there are such people who keep "Recruitscamming" there will be a rule for not doing it and admins will do something against it. From a designperspective it is easier to simply remove augs, and it is also more reasonable in gamelogic. Apart from the fact that Augments would be OP if you kept them too long. I just think Permadeath is in this situation better, more immersive, and easier to do without a lot of calculating durability or something. I got a few questions on the pace of the game. When we saw piloting it looked rather fast for me to have a decent fight. Will it stay that way or will it eventually be slowed down to give time for tactical plans? A great example of this is (again) Silent Hunter. Since it is as slow as it is you have enough time to carefully plan your approach without having too much trouble. Final Frontier doesn't have to be as slow as Silent Hunter but I think you get the idea. Also how about a faction within the universe which plays spacepolice and hunts pirates? Just an idea :D

[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41670687]Lots of snips[/QUOTE] I am a mapper myself and I will tell you that the maps will have to be in 3D but the ships computer is only capable of doing 2d maps so everything wont' exactly be on the same plane, you just wont get to see outside the map and all of this shit about map icons and teleporters everywhere makes it complicated. There's nothing stopping someone from creating a totally 3d variant of the mode but thats even more work. As for your other ideas about jobs. That is roleplay my friend. This is not a roleplay gamemode but simply an RPG style (somehow in gaming there is a difference). All these officers and stuff that you've written down can be ran on a roleplay alternative server to the general run and gun servers that will likely crop up. ---- As for the standalone game. You guys are thinking too far ahead. The game isn't even released to the public as a garry's mod gamemode yet so expect a standalone in at least 12 months or more.

[QUOTE=EvilJackCarve;41667640]Would there be any airlock doors, as there are on most ships in FTL? If so, and if they were breached, would the ship begin to leak atmosphere, even through doors as in FTL? And, if the doors ARE breachable, would explosive decompression be an issue?[/QUOTE] I guess the big problem with this would be the exterior.

You can evacuate rooms using the life support system, so there wouldn't be much of a benefit to adding exterior airlocks.

[QUOTE=GTbrawlers;41671822]-SNIP-[/QUOTE] I don't really agree with you on leaving jobs out. We know for sure that there will be people stranded on the spawnhub with nothing to do until the next ship respawns. I think there is no better idea than giving them minijobs to do to make some money in the meantime. This may seem like RP but then on the other hand, what else do you want to do on the spawnhub? It is not like you stay with that job forever, it is more like a brief waiting phase. Apart from that, whats wrong about a LITTLE Roleplay? It benefits the immersion. Also, what stops us from having such things in the garrysmodversion? On the Subject of the map: The ships themself do not move on the map, because gmod cannot handle that. They will always stay at the same spot in the map. To move around this issue it is the simplest solution to create a metaworld, which simply stores coordinates on a 2D-Map. It is nothing but information, not actual entities moving around. It sure would be possible to create such a concept with three dimensions, but you would have to adapt ALL of the controls and the interfaces. Apart from that it might be hard to handle for the player.

No idea if this has been posted, but just throwing it out there: What if there was a Communications System? There you would be able to buy and sell things when you come across someone in space. You would also be able to communicate with other ships during battle, and propose a treaty, surrender, demand things from them, etc. Now, this doesn't have to be it's own system--but would these abilities be supplied in the Piloting room?

I'm not really supportive of the idea of having augments and jobs. It was said earlier that classes won't be in the gamemode, and job is sort of another name of class (in this case at least). To me augments would just over-complicate things. Why not stick to something FTL like, which was the intention of this gamemode to start off with (correct me if I'm wrong) instead of over-complicating things with a programming language, lots of different jobs and even augments? In FTL for example you didn't have any jobs. You assigned people to various posts, and that's it. If you needed them somewhere else you could quickly relocate them. Jobs would severely restrict this, either by the gamemode itself or butthurt players.

[QUOTE=PredGD;41684047]-SNIP-[/QUOTE] If you paid any attention you would know that the jobs stay only on the spacestation, which is the spawn for players. As I stated before it is inevitable that many will bore themself there when there are no ships around and theres nothing to do. For THOSE people the jobs are supposed, so they can do something useful and earn some money on the way until a ship arrives and they can be recruited. As soon as you enter a ship you don't have a job, then you stand under the command of your captain. On a ship you have the same flexibility like in FTL. Apart from that I think that jobs can benefit this game very much. We don't have to limit ourselves just because FTL didn't have these features. Creativity means to combine features and not to deliberately not include them, just because the spiritual predecessor didn't have them. Talking of Augments: While I don't really see them neccessary they can create more dynamic in the gameplay. You have more possibilities to plan your attacks, which I think is always a good idea. Also it fits the whole spacetheme and allows players to equip for their individual playstyles. Another important note is, that Augments should (if they are ever implemented) be hard to aquire to make them not inflate in a ridiculous way. [QUOTE=PredGD;41684047]I'm not really supportive of the idea of having augments and jobs. It was said earlier that classes won't be in the gamemode, and job is sort of another name of class (in this case at least). [/QUOTE] Citiations?

[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;41684661]If you paid any attention you would know that the jobs stay only on the spacestation, which is the spawn for players. As I stated before it is inevitable that many will bore themself there when there are no ships around and theres nothing to do. For THOSE people the jobs are supposed, so they can do something useful and earn some money on the way until a ship arrives and they can be recruited. As soon as you enter a ship you don't have a job, then you stand under the command of your captain. On a ship you have the same flexibility like in FTL. Apart from that I think that jobs can benefit this game very much. We don't have to limit ourselves just because FTL didn't have these features. Creativity means to combine features and not to deliberately not include them, just because the spiritual predecessor didn't have them. Talking of Augments: While I don't really see them neccessary they can create more dynamic in the gameplay. You have more possibilities to plan your attacks, which I think is always a good idea. Also it fits the whole spacetheme and allows players to equip for their individual playstyles. Another important note is, that Augments should (if they are ever implemented) be hard to aquire to make them not inflate in a ridiculous way. Citiations?[/QUOTE] Not trying to come off rude, but I'm having a hard time seeing your perspective of the so said space station which might be added to the gamemode. The way you describe it makes it appear that only a few selected players get the chance to own a ship, while the rest have to be recruited or not be recruited at all. As I've previously mentioned, if you want to appeal to the majority of players you can't make a gamemode where you need to put down lots of time and resources to get anywhere. Most people, including myself, want to join and have some quick fun, not sit on a space station doing jobs which has jack shit with the actual gamemode to do. A player on a space station (late joiners, people without ships because they have no money, etc etc etc) shouldn't be forced to sit around and wait for a captain to pick them up. They should be given to choice if they want to wait to get recruited or just jump into it and get their own ship for free. Not be forced to wait for some random guy to hopefully recruit him or her.

[QUOTE=PredGD;41684747]--Snip--[/QUOTE] I have to agree with PredGD on this one. Although I'm all for roleplay and may likely release a roleplay server for this, Mezzokoko's thoughts are too much on the verge of space station 13. And like PredGD said, It's hard to understand what you mean about only having jobs on the space station. The space station will be a very small part of the map where people are swiftly recruited. I don't imagine people will be waiting more than 5 - 10 minutes to get on a ship as people will need their crew slots filled up to function more. I agree though that the game would benefit from having more RP elements but at the same time thats not the type of gamemode this is. This probably fits in the genres of action, adventure and possibly RPG. As for having things to do on the space station; theres nothing stopping people putting in arcade machines and stores e.g. create an NPC for pointshop.

The initial thought why I came up with all these ideas for occupations on a spacestation is depth. I guess that all started with the question if people should just get instantly teleported or rather fetched by the spacestation to have more depth and reasonability. Obviously I don't like the instatelport solution at all for some more obvious reasons. But on the other hand, what would you do in the meantime on the station? Most of my ideas are not meant to have a huge impact on the gameplay. Just do some teleports, relay some messages and earn some money on the way. The only thing that could be possibly argued is the medical officer with his ability to implant augments, since this will influence encounters of ships. But other than that it is only supposed to keep you playing if for some reason there are no ships available. I guess when the balancing between players and ships is done well, there barely will be someone on the station. But we have to consider the possibility. Please don't misunderstand my suggestions as a replacement of the main element but rather understand it as an extension of what is possible. If the player has the feeling that he does not only have to fight all the time on vessels, but can also take his time to visit the station for upgrades and other events, this creates more depth and keeps satisfying. A few Arcade games will not cut it. edit: To make some stuff clear, jobs are meant to bridge time on the station, therefore you can only do it there. As soon as you leave the station you are rendered "jobless" and are doing work on your ship. ( I honestly don't know how I can make this MORE clear to you ) edit2: I must say I believe the argument "FF is not a RPG and that's why we can't have RP elements" is bullshit. If we decide that we want such features because they make the experience better we sure can have these. If a good idea is well executed there is no reason why we shouldn't have it.

I think it'd be better if you didn't have official job titles, but that you could just pick up the gear needed and be an engineer/medic/whatever. The only difference between jobs in SS13 is your ID and Gear, all the humans are equal.

Basically jobs = no! There's no point in it--the desire to have them is really just the instinct to stick to traditional RP. Not what we want. All you would need in this game is a group of people who have access to rooms, tools, and inter-ship communication. Someone in the group will inevitably take the initiative to become the leader, start giving out orders, and the rest will follow. Easy. There should be no competition between people on the same ship--at least, no competition fueled by the need for money. After all, you're working on a space ship. Chances are you're making millions anyway. So if money is not your goal, what is it? Fulfilling the mission given to you and your team in space. In FTL you need to get to a certain point before you're caught by the rebels, then you need to defeat the rebels. Not sure what the developers have in mind in terms of Final Frontier, but hopefully it's something good. The star-warp ability (like the one in FTL) would make things easier, as you could quickly explore the area and quickly find something important to do.