[QUOTE=_Kilburn;44432157]Stop being such a sore loser, even Bletotum who ended up last despite his efforts to make something original isn't overreacting as much as you are. While I am somewhat disappointed that none of the winners was really innovative and original, originality isn't everything in a gamemode. As someone who doesn't mind rape jokes and memes as long as they're not overused, I still thought your gamemode severely lacked depth. There is absolutely no skill involved, you simply run in circles and occasionally collect powerups until all the other players die. That's pretty much it. Rinse and repeat. There's no direct competition because all players share a common enemy, and there's no cooperation because of the win conditions. You could replace all the other players with bots with a basic AI and there would be no difference. Most of the powerups have very little impact on the gameplay and the ones that do are too easy to use. They do add a bit of variety to the game but the novelty quickly wears off once you have discovered all of them.
Self pity isn't going to bring you anywhere. We already pointed out the flaws in your gamemode, take them into account and learn from them. Also you shouldn't be complaining about the winners not being original because, well, your gamemode isn't exactly [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_(game)]the pinnacle of originality[/url].
Hopefully the next context will be better. I personally think the lack of motivation and original gamemodes in this one was due to the theme. Originality comes from taking strict rules and bending them to suit your needs. When there are no more rules, everything is permitted and choosing an original idea becomes much harder simply because there are so many possibilities.
So I believe a contest with a strict theme and constraints would be definitely more interesting.[/QUOTE]
Why did you play the 32-64 person sized map over the original map included from the start designed for 32 and less when there was like 7 players. It's like playing dayz with 7 people and going this game sucks because you don't come in contact with anyone. The game isn't waiting for the other to die, it's causing the others to die. Now to get a question out of the way "Why did you make a map for that many players if there's only a few judges?" because we where told that the community would be playing with the judges as well.
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;44433027]I find your attitude a bit eye-brow raising here. A gamemode cannot ride on so called originality alone, the gameplay itself must have substance to keep it going after the novelty wears off. I've been wanting to reply to this thread all day but I've been struggling on how to word the message I'm trying to convey.
It's been brought up before in this thread, but I'd like to talk about it again because I think it's important. Pedobear Escape was originally a Fretta gamemode. This remake, which carries the same basic objective and core gameplay, is not Fretta and is trying to stand out on it's own.
I run one of the only Gmod13 fretta servers (which has the original PBE) and a lot of the gamemodes we host on there I would never consider a full server for. However, when placed in one big collection that can be played in short bursts, they all work very well together because this is one of the things fretta was designed to do. It's the exact same thing with your remake; Would I put it on my server with other gamemodes? Yes. Would I want to host a whole server dedicated to just this? No.[/QUOTE]
No gamemode is playable for 24 hours a day everyday, even ttt being super social gets old after a while. The gamemode was designed for 10 rounds and the original map. I have the function to change the gamemode after that many rounds implemented we where told this: "4.On the play testing servers, entries will run for a maximum of 30 minutes at a time before switching to the next. If your gamemode should finish before that, call: hook.Call('GCCNextEntry', GAMEMODE)" but that was not true. If the contest was for a replacement of the super replayable social gamemodes then the theme should have matched that. Also the plan is to add some of the fretta functions to the gamemode so that it can work with fretta servers again as well as be in the workshop standalone. I will make sure you get a link when it's fretta.
[QUOTE=_Kilburn;44432157]Look, I tried to handle this professionally, however it was simply not possible because I didn't pick the judges, I didn't have time to talk to them because some of them were very rarely available, and I wasn't even expecting Max to come in the first place. While his comments do have some truth behind them, I wish he'd put them in a more subtle way, but of course it was already too late.
If you're annoyed because the contest was handled like shit, then yes you're absolutely right, but there's no need to complain about it further. We all got the message, we saw what went wrong, and hopefully that shouldn't happen again.[/QUOTE]
I don't care how it's structured next time, just don't lie. I don't understand why there's a list of rules and statements that don't mean shit. We had 3 dead lines. Community judging out the window. A change of themes, so fuck voting on that. Promised 30 minutes.
[QUOTE]Once the theme and twist have been voted for and decided, entries open up for anyone. After a month of development time, a few servers will host all of the (playable) entries for a week, and then entry voting starts. Unlike previous contests, this one will not be judged by a select few, and instead judged by members of the community. You must play on the entries on the GCC hosted servers for a short time before being able to vote for them when the play testing segment ends.[/QUOTE]
The exact opposite of all of that happened.
"Unlike previous contests, this one will not be judged by a select few," It was.
"and instead judged by members of the community." It wasn't.
"We all got the message, we saw what went wrong" Nothing went wrong. All the changes aren't server issues or unavoidable situations, there was a plan and it was not followed. The problems where active decisions made, a timer didn't break and change the due date, a database didn't crash and lose the community votes, the site didn't glitch and show the wrong theme, a script didn't have a bug that changed the gamemodes early.
I get that It may look like I'm a "sore loser," but all I am doing I calling out the bullshit.
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44433072]I don't care how it's structured next time, just don't lie. I don't understand why there's a list of rules and statements that don't mean shit. We had 3 dead lines. Community judging out the window. A change of themes, so fuck voting on that. Promised 30 minutes.
The exact opposite of all of that happened.
"Unlike previous contests, this one will not be judged by a select few," It was.
"and instead judged by members of the community." It wasn't.
"We all got the message, we saw what went wrong" Nothing went wrong. All the changes aren't server issues or unavoidable situations, there was a plan and it was not followed. The problems where active decisions made, a timer didn't break and change the due date, a database didn't crash and lose the community votes, the site didn't glitch and show the wrong theme, a script didn't have a bug that changed the gamemodes early.
I get that It may look like I'm a "sore loser," but all I am doing I calling out the bullshit.[/QUOTE]
lol go tell that to the guy who organized the contest. I only took over at the last moment because judging would have been delayed indefinitely otherwise, and since he had already selected judges (myself included), I simply followed his plan to get this farce over with as quickly as possible. The theme should have never been changed, and there should have been a lot more communication instead of 1 month of complete silence. The whole plan was terrible, that's what went wrong, do you think I'm not aware of that?
That's why I'm telling you to stop complaining. I'll make sure the next contest will be properly organized, that's all.
[QUOTE=_Kilburn;44433714]go tell that to the guy who organized the contest.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=_Kilburn;44433714]stop complaining.[/QUOTE]
Make up your mind.
I am not here to talk to myself, I don't exactly have adam's phone number. I am not here directly speaking to you or about you.
Do I think the judging was bullshit after telling us the community was going to pick? Yes
Do I think the judges picked weren't good represenatives? For the most part, yes. I mean if jetboom said my gamemode was really fucking shit that would have meant a lot and I might cry a little inside. If you are going to have judges pick some majors. Garry, jetboom, bad king. I know some people that would have been good pick where in the contest, but not all.
Do I think this is all _kilburn's fault? No.
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44405763]I do feel like _kilburn gave it a fair chance.[/QUOTE]
I played this contest's game modes and there were only a few game modes that actually functioned when I played them (I tried several times during the trial phase). Some of the game modes that I liked won, some didn't. But one thing that really got me was my vote not counting. Seriously, why even put it in there if they don't count? What should one conclude from this?
[QUOTE=Bloodshed_;44433813]Seriously, why even put it in there if they don't count? What should one conclude from this?[/QUOTE]
You, your ideas, and your vote don't matter. That is the major thing I have a problem with. I don't believe your vote shouldn't matter, we where told they would matter, but in the end they didn't.
Edit:
Are you trolling me here? One post feels like your trolling me.
I don't understand why you didn't make a second place or sixth or seventh place. If you come to a tie add another judge because then you just split the second and first with them which seems kind of odd.
No, I just made the account to express my opinion.
Waiting for the other judge to add his reply would have made the difference :P But i guess if they did it would have just delayed things more.
I see both side of the options, having judges and a public vote.
with Public Vote, People might not try them all and just vote for one, specially if their friend made it and has asked everyone to vote. EG i'm pretty sure Jetboom covered this also, If he linked it on his forums, he'd probably be guaranteed winner.
But the same goes with judges, While I think for the most part they were pretty good and unbiased, specially in their reviews, i think to me more judges would be better, resulting in a more varied vote. (I know its harder to get more) But I'd suggest two things for future.
3ish servers in different zones with a rotation of all the gamemodes, so everyone can get a good shot as playing with a low ping, and being few servers, they are more likely to be populated more often, and being on rotation, would get fair exposure to each gamemode.
The second thing would be, Have both the Public vote, and Judges. Get a set of good mature judges, and also have a public vote, and make it so that the public vote, is = to about 2 judges votes.
Edit: I also think that more exposure would be good. EG, Get a icon for GMODGCC and a url put in the Garrysmod Main Menu for the duration of the contest.
Link the main discussion thread on facepunch, from the website, (so people can find the discussion)
[QUOTE=Halokiller38;44433886]I don't understand why you didn't make a second place or sixth or seventh place. If you come to a tie add another judge because then you just split the second and first with them which seems kind of odd.[/QUOTE]
It's not a bad idea. If two are tied then even know they get less then 1st place, one doesn't have to get screwed by being forced second place. I highly doubt a tie would have been an issue if there where hundreds of judges instead of 5.
[QUOTE=sacred1337;44433993]Waiting for the other judge to add his reply would have made the difference :P But i guess if they did it would have just delayed things more.
I see both side of the options, having judges and a public vote.
with Public Vote, People might not try them all and just vote for one, specially if their friend made it and has asked everyone to vote. EG i'm pretty sure Jetboom covered this also, If he linked it on his forums, he'd probably be guaranteed winner.
But the same goes with judges, While I think for the most part they were pretty good and unbiased, specially in their reviews, i think to me more judges would be better, resulting in a more varied vote. (I know its harder to get more) But I'd suggest two things for future.
3ish servers in different zones with a rotation of all the gamemodes, so everyone can get a good shot as playing with a low ping, and being few servers, they are more likely to be populated more often, and being on rotation, would get fair exposure to each gamemode.
The second thing would be, Have both the Public vote, and Judges. Get a set of good mature judges, and also have a public vote, and make it so that the public vote, is = to about 2 judges votes.[/QUOTE]
I think some thing that would be awesome an interesting is if public votes fail have the gamemode owners vote. Rank them 1st-9th, 1st being best and each person judges all but their own gamemode. It would let us all come together and remove the bias we would have to vote for ourselves, to remove even more bias let the judges all play on their own with anyone they want from the community, their friends w/e, that way they cannot change minds by strategically complaining or making statements that are not true.
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44433999]It's not a bad idea. If two are tied then even know they get less then 1st place, one doesn't have to get screwed by being forced second place. I highly doubt a tie would have been an issue if there where hundreds of judges instead of 5.[/QUOTE]
And one of those actually posted there review on time. If he would of done so, Melon Bomber would of won since in his review it was second place.
[QUOTE=Halokiller38;44434052]And one of those actually posting there review on time. If he would of done so, Melon Bomber would of won since in his review it was second place.[/QUOTE]
If we flushed in 5 new judges who knows, the entire list could have been flipped upside down. Having ambiguously picked judges is the worst way to have judging, what makes them so special that they can suddenly speak for 1/5 of the gmod community, what makes them so special their vote counts so heavy, but the guy a few post above us's vote isn't worth the bytes of data his account occupies.
Now if the gamemode makers got to vote that would be a reason they are qualified. They are voting who they think went through an experience similar to their own and did the best.
Even better is letting the community pick, they can simply vote for what one they like the best for what ever reason they like it.
The worst idea is putting the judges together, you are just going to get a false-consensus effect in the results.
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44433999]It's not a bad idea. If two are tied then even know they get less then 1st place, one doesn't have to get screwed by being forced second place. I highly doubt a tie would have been an issue if there where hundreds of judges instead of 5.
I think some thing that would be awesome an interesting is if public votes fail have the gamemode owners vote. Rank them 1st-9th, 1st being best and each person judges all but their own gamemode. It would let us all come together and remove the bias we would have to vote for ourselves, to remove even more bias let the judges all play on their own with anyone they want from the community, their friends w/e, that way they cannot change minds by strategically complaining or making statements that are not true.[/QUOTE]
Lol, I actually had the same idea with the owners voting, but i came to the conclusion they would just vote for their own. But, Actually as you said remove their vote for their own one and that would work.
Better still, Add their own vote. An honest Dev would vote for the best gamemode, and if they vote for their own, so what, they are still ranking out them all.
But prehaps, Mix this idea with Both Additional Judges, and a public vote. have it like a 3 way thing. Would probably be the most fair way to do it.
I still think that limited servers on a set rotation and timer, would be the best way to go though.
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44434139]If we flushed in 5 new judges who knows, the entire list could have been flipped upside down. Having ambiguously picked judges is the worst way to have judging, what makes them so special that they can suddenly speak for 1/5 of the gmod community, what makes them so special their vote counts so heavy, but the guy a few post above us's vote isn't worth the bytes of data his account occupies.
Now if the gamemode makers got to vote that would be a reason they are qualified. They are voting who they think went through an experience similar to their own and did the best.
Even better is letting the community pick, they can simply vote for what one they like the best for what ever reason they like it.
The worst idea is putting the judges together, you are just going to get a false-consensus effect in the results.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, literally, is it that hard to make a poll that everyone here can see and just let them vote? Hell, even tell communities not on facepunch. You could even host lobbies so people don't just base it off the info they get or even have video of it.
[QUOTE=sacred1337;44434148]Lol, I actually had the same idea with the owners voting, but i came to the conclusion they would just vote for their own. But, Actually as you said remove their vote for their own one and that would work.
Better still, Add their own vote. An honest Dev would vote for the best gamemode, and if they vote for their own, so what, they are still ranking out them all.
But prehaps, Mix this idea with Both Additional Judges, and a public vote. have it like a 3 way thing. Would probably be the most fair way to do it.
I still think that limited servers on a set rotation and timer, would be the best way to go though.[/QUOTE]
Weighting judges picked for a irrelevant reason more would be a bad idea, but weighting other gamemode developers not voting for their own gamemode would be not a bad idea. It would help deal with that bias community problem.
[QUOTE=Halokiller38;44434155]Exactly, literally, is it that hard to make a poll that everyone here can see and just let them vote? Hell, even tell communities not on facepunch.[/QUOTE]
No it's not. I would drop my gamemode from the contest and make a judging server for the community if that was an option with a site to cast your votes. I'm not pissed that I lost, I don't think I should have won, I'm not being a sore loser, I just believe that this contest should bring the community together and celebrate new content, having fun, and innovation. I think we should talk about what each one brought to the table, and what their possibilities are. All the judges seemed to be concerned with is who lost so we can make someone the winner.
I don't believe we should be honoring 5 people who's contribution is "im gay" and "really fucking shit" and their opinions of what everyone else should think.
Above all, at the very least, give each gamemode a fair chance ffs. They spent a long time on some and almost none on others. The video with the sandbox part cut off is 1:20 minutes long. Promised 30 mins each they only got, on average 8.
We could structure it like a US Presidential election. Have an "electorate" made of chosen judges (hopefully more than there were this time) as well as a thread poll for the "popular vote", at the same time letting people post their feedback in a thread. After both have voted, the electorate could review the popular vote and reevaluate their standings, which would yield the final result.
Next year build a list of ways to vote, then vote on them.
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44435870]Next year build a list of ways to vote, then vote on them.[/QUOTE]
Lol. I think we should vote on voting for them. :P
I think some decisions need to be made, but there should be a discussion thread on it, before the competition starts.
As said repeatedly, a public vote is doomed to failure via popularity. It just can't work. The community at large will not respect originality or effort, but what they have ties to. It is a shame.
Gamemode developers voting might just be worse; tin-foil hat conspiracy vote rigging etc
I'm still in favor of a judging panel, but the judges were picked by them being volunteers 'well known on facepunch'. Not the best idea, 'no offense'.
I'd say accomplished developers would make the best judges. Garry (Rust[url=lol gotcha][/url]) Jetboom (NN). Macdguy (GmodTower). GranPC (Stanley Parable). etc
[editline]3rd April 2014[/editline]
its not like we're going to undo the mistakes here
but we do need a more established user doing the next contest
its a shame garry never did his own gamemode competition last summer, like he planned to
[QUOTE=bitches;44437517]As said repeatedly, a public vote is doomed to failure via popularity. It just can't work. The community at large will not respect originality or effort, but what they have ties to. It is a shame.
Gamemode developers voting might just be worse; tin-foil hat conspiracy vote rigging etc
I'm still in favor of a judging panel, but the judges were picked by them being volunteers 'well known on facepunch'. Not the best idea, 'no offense'.
I'd say accomplished developers would make the best judges. Garry (Rust[url=lol gotcha][/url]) Jetboom (NN). Macdguy (GmodTower). GranPC (Stanley Parable). etc[/QUOTE]
Really? Garry counts because he made rust. There is no better game to attribute to him in this case?
But I don't see why the community can't be entrusted to vote. That is who we should be making gamemodes for, they should pick the winners.
Because the community has their dicks too deep in stuff like DarkRP and TTT
hence why I suggested an electorate
[QUOTE=BFG9000;44437653]Because the community has their dicks too deep in stuff like DarkRP and TTT
hence why I suggested an electorate[/QUOTE]
TTT and DarkRP weren't gamemodes submitted.. I don't... What?
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44437615]I don't believe we should be honoring 5 people who's contribution is "im gay" and "really fucking shit" and their opinions of what everyone else should think.[/QUOTE]
The ones who said that weren't judges.
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44437615]Above all, at the very least, give each gamemode a fair chance ffs. They spent a long time on some and almost none on others. The video with the sandbox part cut off is 1:20 minutes long. Promised 30 mins each they only got, on average 8.[/QUOTE]
I initially planned 15 minutes per gamemode because 30 was simply not possible, unless the judging was done in several days. And I couldn't do that either because what would everyone say if the judging was delayed even further?
Some of the judges were from different time zones and most of them had to work during the week so it was really hard to find a time for everyone to play at the same time. Plus some of the gamemodes didn't work "right out of the box" so we started judging a bit later than what was initially planned. Everyone was in a hurry and the judges who didn't like the gamemode currently being tested urged me to quickly go to the next one.
That said I still believe it didn't have much on an influence on the final results. We played all the gamemodes long enough to know what the each one was about, what was well done and what wasn't. It's probably true that the results would have been less weird with more judges (I'm not going to pretend that three 5th places isn't absolute bullshit), but one of the judges sent me this on Steam before disappearing:
[quote]melon bomber 10/10 very fun
MF (melon figter?) 8/10 Visually it's very nice but the controls could use some work. The movement is slow and it was hard to know where you were shooting.
melon tank 7/10 nice interfance and gameplay, it was a bit hard to know what team you were on though
Labyrint 5/10 The spectator controls were a bit weird. Pretty entertaining.
Escape the pedobear 2/10 The gamemode is very simple and does not offer much replayability. It might be fun for 30 minutes for something like fretta.
melon monster 1/10 the animations were pretty cool but it lacks gameplay
Honeypot 1/10 bad[/quote]
Another forgot to send me the reviews via PM even though we agreed on it in the group chat several times. And Max, who was also supposed to be a last minute judge, unexpectedly had to go in the middle of the judging. After a second thought that was probably a good thing for you, I think his review on your gamemode would have been a bit... biased.
Gran PC was supposed to be a judge too (and he would have probably been a good one) but he was only available on Saturday while all the other judges were only available on Sunday.
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44437615]But I don't see why the community can't be entrusted to vote. That is who we should be making gamemodes for, they should pick the winners.[/QUOTE]
The community would only pick the "mainstream" gamemodes, the original ones wouldn't stand a chance. "Failure via popularity" is an excellent way to put it.
Arguably the same happened to this very contest, but that was mostly because the timing wasn't the best and almost no one had much time to code a polished gamemode. The ones which were creative were merely proofs of concept that had very little gameplay (heck, Metal Melon was literally developed in one hour).
Gran PC is perfectly ok with organizing another contest this summer. I'll see with Adam whether we can reuse the gmodgcc domain or not (doesn't it belong to grea$emonkey or something like that?), and if we can then we'll host the contest there as usual. We can get "official" GCC servers up so the entrants can test their gamemodes properly and make sure nothing goes wrong.
It would be nice if there was a blog of some sorts where entrants can post progress on their gamemodes. Or maybe we could simply do that on the forum, with the GCC subforum we used to have a long time ago.
I would be ok with letting the community vote for the theme again. It's a win/win situation, if the theme is good then everyone is happy, if the theme is terrible, we would encourage gamemode makers to interpret it differently.
Voting would still be done by judges but we'd make sure to pick judges from diverse backgrounds to make sure the points of view are varied and the results aren't all the same. How is that?
Now even though using a public vote can cause a bad pick, I felt that melon bomber and melon tank were mainstreamed because of their popularity and yet they still got top 3. I understand the judges overlooked code and design but even still I felt that the results would of been the same really if the people voted. I mean I guess a developer could pay people to vote for them in an open vote but thats them and mods and shit should be looking for that. Either way good job to everyone and my donation will be going back to its original value since I am pleased with the results.
[QUOTE=_Kilburn;44437863]
Gran PC is perfectly ok with organizing another contest this summer. I'll see with Adam whether we can reuse the gmodgcc domain or not (doesn't it belong to grea$emonkey or something like that?), and if we can then we'll host the contest there as usual. We can get "official" GCC servers up so the entrants can test their gamemodes properly and make sure nothing goes wrong.
It would be nice if there was a blog of some sorts where entrants can post progress on their gamemodes. Or maybe we could simply do that on the forum, with the GCC subforum we used to have a long time ago.
I would be ok with letting the community vote for the theme again. It's a win/win situation, if the theme is good then everyone is happy, if the theme is terrible, we would encourage gamemode makers to interpret it differently.
Voting would still be done by judges but we'd make sure to pick judges from diverse backgrounds to make sure the points of view are varied and the results aren't all the same. How is that?[/QUOTE]
It'd be fantastic if there could be another GCC this summer. One restraint from many coders I know who wanted to enter the GCC but couldn't was time. In the summer most people will have a lot more time to work so hopefully we'd see a lot more entries.
[QUOTE=faceguydb;44437615]Really? Garry counts because he made rust. There is no better game to attribute to him in this case?[/QUOTE]
you were supposed to see the hidden url in my post upon quoting it to point that out
[editline]3rd April 2014[/editline]
I don't think the community should explicitly choose themes; we'll get the same ones over and over.
Instead, choose 3 unrelated to the then previous contest, and let those be voted on.
[QUOTE=rbreslow;44438674]It'd be fantastic if there could be another GCC this summer. One restraint from many coders I know who wanted to enter the GCC but couldn't was time. In the summer most people will have a lot more time to work so hopefully we'd see a lot more entries.[/QUOTE]
if everything pans out as intended i will be hosting an 'Original Gamemode Contest' this summer.
something i was thinking about to avoid trouble for everyone would be to allow every contestant to use my gmod server for one whole week to troubleshoot issues with the server. once they're done the install would be backed up. that means that when i judge the gamemodes it would be the exact same setup as they tested it in -- which would lead to people no longer bitching about their gamemode being broken because my server sucks. does that sound any good?
A server as in a server box, or a single server? You could easily have 10-20 applicants trying to share, only available on some days etc.
[QUOTE=bitches;44441237]A server as in a server box, or a single server? You could easily have 10-20 applicants trying to share, only available on some days etc.[/QUOTE]
depending on the number of contestants there will be a certain number of gmod servers available simultaneously. they will all have an entire week, monday to sunday, to test their gamemode. it is their responsibility to free up time to do so. whether they manage to test or not, the server will be taken away after a week.
Would the judging take place after that week on the same servers, just without FTP/console access for the devs? Developers might make gamemodes that rely on server settings, which would be messy if everything was moved to one server.
You could make an addon to put on each server that makes all players automatically connect to another one of the servers.
I still don't get what evidence there is to support crowds can't make decisions, almost everything supports the opposite.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_of_the_crowd[/url]
People often make the wrong decisions but if the pool is large enough someone usually makes the opposite wrong decision. Now it's not perfect but I think judging down to 1% of inaccuracy would suit this contest just fine. When the crowd had a different opinion as a whole then you all that means is you are part of the deviation, nobody is wrong just opinions don't and shouldn't match.
The only problem with this is you have to make sure the people are separated and form an opinion with out coming in contact of each other. With a public vote, that wont happen perfectly, they will have to play together, but we will at least get a cluster of groups that have no contact. The reason we want to keep people apart is so they can form their own opinion. People in groups will follow the trend of the group. It's called conformity, it's a human survival behavior and it's pretty much unavoidable. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformity[/url]
So many times did I hear kilburn trying to give his opinion and he was cut off by someone else and he never said what he thought after that. It's not so that having the voting be public vote is necessarily the perfect or best way. It's just having a group, selected by one person (I assume Adam) will result in a bias group, that group then playing together will lead to conformity in opinions. That all leads to really shitty results.
I can't think of a single worse way to get an accurate measurement of what the gmod community thinks except maybe a group of 4 instead of 5.
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