Mech Legs 201 - Hip Biased Walking Chip

[Sestze]

[QUOTE=bigbadbarron;16147387]ive tried this using very simple props and it just spazes out and starts flying in a random direction, so, how exactly is this chip going to do anything when the legs are just dangleing there with no foreward/reverse orentation on them? just using axises and adv. ballsockets

:eng99:

[url]http://www.wegame.com/watch/robo_fail/[/url][/QUOTE]
I finally got a moment out of my time in Europe.

I'll hurfblurf a bit about how the actual chip functions and then tell you what's going wrong.

The reason why the entire setup doesn't care which way the props are facing is because the direction of movement is designated by the direction of the chip. If you face the e2 the wrong way, the entire orientation of the legs changes. If you make a reverse-knee walker (IE a chicken walker) and then fuck up and place the chip facing the wrong way on the chassis, you can end up with a regular knee'd walker instead.

This is why I like this chip, it provides a lot of flexibility in terms of construction - the movements aren't tied into the orientation of the props, so it allows for more outlandish configurations that wouldn't be possible without it.

There is also a bit of code in the first part of the chip that reads what positions the feet and hip are at relative to one another. If you don't reupdate the chip by rerunning the code again (just click on the chip again, and it'll flicker green again), it won't log these starting points. When you unfreeze something that has this issue, it will start to flail as all of the joints attempt to go to 0, 0, 0 (local) on the chip, and the contraption will black hole.

If that video you showed is an instance of what happens when you just turn it on, you need to reupdate the chip again - it's missing the re-uploading step. If that's not the case, the chip may be facing the wrong way on the hip.

Lastly, I noticed that when you turned it on, the whole entire contraption flipped end over end. You will need a keep upright to prevent it from upending itself. Typically I use the advanced ballsocket tool with the settings Xmin -0.1 Xmax 0.1 Ymin -0.1 Ymax 0.1 Zmin -180 Zmax 180, Free movement checked. No Torque/Friction/Force limits. Once you have that setting, apply it to the hip, and then to the ground. It should keep it upright until it reaches the -180 to 180 transition.

When it reaches that transition, it'll fall over. You can reapply a second keepupright ballsocket at that point to keep it standing.

Keep me posted, I liked the ending of your video ;)

[Kalimando]

[url]http://www.wegame.com/watch/There_i_fixed_it/[/url]
:iia: :froggonk:

[Finlander]

So, umm...
Since apparently an elasticed chassis setup doesn't work...
How should the mech be constrained?

And please don't just say "Adv. Ball Sockets". Be a bit less vague, know what I mean?

[Sestze]

I'll write something formal up about how I design my legs when I get back - I'm still stuck in Europe.

[Sestze]

[QUOTE=dvondrake;16491901]When I try using this it doesn't do anything at all. :([/QUOTE]
Did you try turning the chip on? There's an input that needs to be wired up that actually activates the chip. I've seen people use a constant value, or a toggled numpad input, or the 'Active' output on the Advanced pod controller to turn the chip 'On'.

Did you link up the entity markers correctly? You need to right click on the entity marker and then the foot/hip with the entity marker tool to link the two.

Did you wire the entity markers to the chip?

[3com111]

Thanks! I'll be using this in my builds.

[Deadeye22]

Once you get the ballsockets, variables, and weight dialed in just right, it works perfectly!!!

Here's my current mech:

[IMG]http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg320/deadeye2250/mech1-1.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg320/deadeye2250/Mech2.png[/IMG]

[heybubba1992]

thats pretty good :P very proportionally sound and whatnot. haha.
ug im trying to make a metal gear ray. out of the combine drop pod- the whole body looks very good. but i had to draw out a blue print on a piece of paper for the legs to get the mechanism right. and then i couldnt find a prop that would be stable to work for those long tubular feet it has. i ended up using large gears and stacked them. but idk. when i try to get the whole thing working with the elastics and chip it screws up and starts to spazz. i was wondering if the chip has to be, along with facing the direction of the way the mech is going, but also completely horizontal? (level with ground) lol thats really the whole purpose of this post rofl sorry for wasting your time with all that b4. :P

[Sestze]

[QUOTE=heybubba1992;16738411]thats pretty good :P very proportionally sound and whatnot. haha.
ug im trying to make a metal gear ray. out of the combine drop pod- the whole body looks very good. but i had to draw out a blue print on a piece of paper for the legs to get the mechanism right. and then i couldnt find a prop that would be stable to work for those long tubular feet it has. i ended up using large gears and stacked them. but idk. when i try to get the whole thing working with the elastics and chip it screws up and starts to spazz. i was wondering if the chip has to be, along with facing the direction of the way the mech is going, but also completely horizontal? (level with ground) lol thats really the whole purpose of this post rofl sorry for wasting your time with all that b4. :P[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it has to be flat to the ground.

You can put the chip on the ground, and pick it up with the physgun and manhandle it into place.

Just the chip though, the hip doesn't need to be set up that way - it can be facing whatever direction you like.

[Sestze]

<derp>

[Gibbo]

[QUOTE=Sestze;16788222]Minor bump with some new stuff.

This chip works off the previous version and adds the ability for the mech to sidestep when you hold down Strafe. No new tweakable variables added.

@name Hip-Biased Move Chip (Strafing)
# Entities
@inputs Hip:entity Left:entity Right:entity
# Controls
@inputs On For Back TRight TLeft Strafe Sprint
# Debug
@outputs Fltdbga Fltdbgb Vecdbg:vector
# Offsets
@persist Offsetl:vector Offsetr:vector Hiptrg:vector Hoff Voff Foff Ideall:vector Idealr:vector
@persist Yoffl Yoffr Zoff Turnposa:vector Turnposb:vector Turnvec:vector
@persist Xoffl Xoffr
# Passed Information for Delta
@persist Entpos:vector Leg
# Forces
@persist Forcel:vector Forcer:vector Trig Mul Spr Snap Vtch Ltch Htch Pshd Strp
@persist Angle Setf Laterall Lateralr Change Yofflt Yoffrt
@trigger all

interval(20)

Angle = (TLeft - TRight) * Strafe * 90 / (1 + (For - 2 * Back)) - Back * 180

Setf = For | Back | ((TRight | TLeft) & Strafe)

Offsetl = entity():toLocal(Left:massCenter())
Offsetr = entity():toLocal(Right:massCenter())

Foff = (Offsetl:x() + Offsetr:x()) / 2
Voff = (Offsetl:z() + Offsetr:z()) / 2
Hoff = (Offsetl:y() + Offsetr:y()) / 2

Entpos = entity():pos()

if(first())
{
    Hiptrg = vec((Offsetl:x() + Offsetr:x()) / 2, (Offsetl:y() + Offsetr:y()) / 2, (Offsetl:z() + Offsetr:z()) / 2)
    Yoffl = Offsetl:y()
    Yoffr = Offsetr:y()
    Zoff = (Offsetl:z() + Offsetr:z()) / 2
    Xoffl = Offsetl:x()
    Xoffr = Offsetr:x()
    
# Trigger Distance
    Trig = 20
# Foot Force Multiplier
    Mul = 1
# Turning Multiplier
    Snap = 4
# Vertical, Lower and Horizontal Offsets
    Vtch = 3
    Ltch = 3
    Htch = 2
# Horizontal (Yaw) Stabilizer
    Strp = 1/40
# Hip Stab
    Pshd = 4
}
# Sprint Multiplier
Spr = 1 + 0.75 * Sprint

if(On)
{
    # Hip Snap
    Hip:applyForce(Hip:mass() * Pshd * (entity():forward() * (Foff + $Foff * 5 - Hiptrg:x()) + entity():up() * (Voff + $Voff * 5 - Hiptrg:z()) + entity():right() * -1 * (Hoff + $Hoff * 5 - Hiptrg:y())))
    # Turning
    Turnposa = entity():right() * -200
    Turnposb = entity():right() * 200
    Turnvec = entity():forward()
    if(abs(TRight - TLeft) & !Strafe)
    {
        Hip:applyOffsetForce(Turnposb, Turnvec * Hip:mass() * (TRight - TLeft) * Snap)
        Hip:applyOffsetForce(Turnposa, Turnvec * Hip:mass() * (TLeft - TRight) * Snap)
    }
    Hip:applyOffsetForce(Turnposb, Turnvec * Hip:mass() * entity():angVel():yaw() * Strp)
    Hip:applyOffsetForce(Turnposa, Turnvec * Hip:mass() * entity():angVel():yaw() * -Strp)

    # Leg Toggles
    Laterall = sqrt((Offsetl:x() - Xoffl)^2 + (Offsetl:y() - Yoffl)^2)
    Lateralr = sqrt((Offsetr:x() - Xoffr)^2 + (Offsetr:y() - Yoffr)^2)
    
    Fltdbga = Laterall
    Fltdbgb = Lateralr
    if((Laterall > Trig) & (Leg == 0) & !Change)
    {
        Leg = 1
        Change = 1
        timer("reset", 300)
    }
    if((Lateralr > Trig) & (Leg == 1) & !Change)
    {
        Leg = 0
        Change = 1
        timer("reset", 300)
    }
    
    if(Back)
    {
        Yofflt = Yoffr
        Yoffrt = Yoffl
    }
    else
    {
        Yofflt = Yoffl
        Yoffrt = Yoffr
    }
    
    if(Setf & (Leg == 1))
    {
        Ideall = vec(-1 * Xoffl + 0, -1 * Yofflt, -1 * Zoff + Trig * Ltch)
        Idealr = vec(-1 * Xoffr + -Trig * Htch, -1 * Yoffrt, -1 * Zoff - Trig * Vtch)
    }
    if(Setf & (Leg == 0))
    {
        Ideall = vec(-1 * Xoffl + -Trig * Htch, -1 * Yofflt, -1 * Zoff - Trig * Vtch)
        Idealr = vec(-1 * Xoffr + 0, -1 * Yoffrt, -1 * Zoff + Trig * Ltch)
    }
    #WARNING: This particular IF fucks up a lot - good with rayman
    #not so good with any sort of legitimate construct
#    if(!Setf)
#    {
#        Ideall = vec(-1 * Xoffl, -1 * Yoffl, -1 * Zoff)
#        Idealr = vec(-1 * Xoffr, -1 * Yoffr, -1 * Zoff)
#    }
    
    Ideall = Ideall:rotate(ang(0, Angle, 0))
    Idealr = Idealr:rotate(ang(0, Angle, 0))
        
    Forcel = entity():pos() - entity():toWorld(Offsetl + $Offsetl * 5 + Ideall)
    Forcer = entity():pos() - entity():toWorld(Offsetr + $Offsetr * 5 + Idealr)
    
    if(Setf)
    {
        Left:applyForce(Forcel * Left:mass() * (Mul * Spr))
        Right:applyForce(Forcer * Right:mass() * (Mul * Spr))
    }
}

if(clk("reset"))
{
    Change = 0
}

[/QUOTE]

Didn't you say that sidestepping had no actual purpose...

[Sestze]

[QUOTE=Gibbo;16792482]Didn't you say that sidestepping had no actual purpose...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, with my other mech chips, definitely. Faster/easier to just swivel the hip.

This one served it's purpose, though. It's easier to post it than try to find a workaround solution to give someone a chip while I'm playing DeadSpace.

I hate it when people do that. People shouldn't message me while I'm playing non-gmod games about Gmod.

[kanadaj]

Eh I have some problems with the chip (the normal hip) I connect it, I update it and when i want to start my mech it goes forward but only level up one if it's legs... (sorry no images IDK how to upload them but I made some...) it walks normaly backwards...

[Sestze]

[QUOTE=kanadaj;16984338]Eh I have some problems with the chip (the normal hip) I connect it, I update it and when i want to start my mech it goes forward but only level up one if it's legs... (sorry no images IDK how to upload them but I made some...) it walks normaly backwards...[/QUOTE]
This was caused by a lack of a forward/backward offset. You should use one of the more recent chips that were posted later in the thread.

[shadowscion]

A couple questions...

Just want to make it clear, do I or do I not need elastics for this chip to function properly?

Should the chip be placed on top of the hip or on the side/front?

[Sestze]

[QUOTE=unrezt;16987076]A couple questions...

Just want to make it clear, do I or do I not need elastics for this chip to function properly?

Should the chip be placed on top of the hip or on the side/front?[/QUOTE]
No elastics. Top of the hip. If you look at the chip, it's got a little arrow on it if you use the red and black chip design.

That's forward. The way it points is forward.

[shadowscion]

[QUOTE=Sestze;16987455]No elastics. Top of the hip. If you look at the chip, it's got a little arrow on it if you use the red and black chip design.

That's forward. The way it points is forward.[/QUOTE]

Ok thanks, I was just wondering about the elastics because every time I try without, the mech doesn't stand completely up.

[heybubba1992]

wait you really dont have to use any elastics at all? the chip will support the legs on its own? i just want to restate this to make it clear because that would save me a lot of time and work from now on...

[Sestze]

[QUOTE=heybubba1992;16988603]wait you really dont have to use any elastics at all? the chip will support the legs on its own? i just want to restate this to make it clear because that would save me a lot of time and work from now on...[/QUOTE]
Elastics aren't necessary.

[kanadaj]

You have to use ballsockets... Those can keep the mech on it's legs... Sestze, is there any easyer way to make a little bot without editing the chip, or the chip can do it without problem?

Edit: Sestze could you amek a video tutorial how to make these mech work properly? I built mine, everything was fine but I had two problems... 1. Sometimes if I press the forward button, the mech just go around and doN't want to step...
2. The mech always walk like a low-gravity thing... And if I put greater weight on it it just tears apart the legs...

Oh I have third: If I want the mech to walk backward, It walks like if it should in sprint mode...

[kanadaj]

[QUOTE=Finlander;15451462]Hey, I've been fiddling around with this chip here, in the hopes of making a mech, but... There's a problem.

[url=http://i42.tinypic.com/wusf3o.jpg]This here's my mech leg test layout.[/url]

[url=http://i39.tinypic.com/j9q8no.jpg]The same, but from a different angle so you can see some of the elastics.[/url]

It's made by utilizing BaWa's Mech Legs 102 tutorial. That is to say, I attempted to follow it as closely as possible, until the part with the thrusters, because this chip apparently takes care of the thrusting with applied force and whatnot.

I managed to give it the chip and put on the entity markers and whatnot correctly(I think), and I managed to revv it up without it flipping out.

However, when I attempted to walk forwards or backwards...

[url=http://i41.tinypic.com/jqi8tw.jpg]It jumps![/url]
[url=http://i39.tinypic.com/10z1e34.jpg]Or, to be exact, flies really turbo fast and really turbo far![/url]

So yeah. When I press the forwards or backwards key, the thing just sort of begins flying, sometimes straight up, other times forwards.

It also cannot turn. The left and right keys respond, but the legs just sort of... Slightly move to the side. Sometimes not even that.

So... What am I doing wrong here?[/QUOTE]

I solved your problem, I just looked to the pictures and the expression was in wrong angle... it has to be on the top of hip, not on the side....

[Blaylock1988]

Hey, has anyone tried making a Mech with the additional upper leg bone like the AT-STs in star wars have? Their hips do not move up and down as much with the additional bone/joint and provide a much smoother ride. It attaches from the back of the hip and is pretty much about horizontal. It swings and counters the leg movement so that the hip/head does not bounce up and down as much. Most of the videos on YouTube are horrible at showing it cause they are all 3D animations, but this one is the best and you can kinda see it [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxXq-1U8qU[/url]

I would recommend popping in Episode 5 if you want to get a good illustraion of the legs in action.

[Axelrod]

Okay, that's frickin' cool. I want to start building mechs like this....
Now could anyone tell me how I could use that code in Gmod, please?

Or adv dupe it for me, what have you. Because I have no clue as to how I would go about doing this.

[heybubba1992]

[QUOTE=Blaylock1988;17057603]Hey, has anyone tried making a Mech with the additional upper leg bone like the AT-STs in star wars have? Their hips do not move up and down as much with the additional bone/joint and provide a much smoother ride. It attaches from the back of the hip and is pretty much about horizontal. It swings and counters the leg movement so that the hip/head does not bounce up and down as much. Most of the videos on YouTube are horrible at showing it cause they are all 3D animations, but this one is the best and you can kinda see it [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxXq-1U8qU[/url]

I would recommend popping in Episode 5 if you want to get a good illustraion of the legs in action.[/QUOTE]

ive actually been working on this for a while. if you go into gibbos mech leg tutorial- its got a very similar design to the third example down. the at has an extra limb though. it can easily be done after only some minor tweaking though, since this awesome chip came out... :)

[editline]10:53AM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Axelrod;17058890]Okay, that's frickin' cool. I want to start building mechs like this....
Now could anyone tell me how I could use that code in Gmod, please?

Or adv dupe it for me, what have you. Because I have no clue as to how I would go about doing this.[/QUOTE]

you copy the code that sestze posts, like the ones in the previous posts in this thread. get the most recent one with striding and the one without. it doesn't really matter though but then you have two. copy all of it, then go to computer/program files/steam/steamapps/yourfriggenname/garrysmod/garrysmod/data/expression2. open expression2----- then right click; go to new, and then click text document. then open the document and paste the code in it. name the text document hip biased mech/walking chip or w/e you want that u can remember it by... hope that helped

Edit again: to the guy i helped, you have to have wiremod for this to work. that can be installed into gmod through pretty much the same way as the code was. instead of going into the data folder, you would, after downloading wiremod, just extract/cut the wiremod foler, and paste it into the addons folder that should be the first folder inside the second garrysmod folder. the sequence is this computer/program files/steam/steamapps/yourfriggenname/garrysmod/garrysmod/addons. the best way to get wire would be with an svn, but im tired of explaining so maybe someone else can help you there. if not just go look for it on garrysmod.org or something. :P

[Gibbo]

[QUOTE=Blaylock1988;17057603]Hey, has anyone tried making a Mech with the additional upper leg bone like the AT-STs in star wars have? Their hips do not move up and down as much with the additional bone/joint and provide a much smoother ride. It attaches from the back of the hip and is pretty much about horizontal. It swings and counters the leg movement so that the hip/head does not bounce up and down as much. Most of the videos on YouTube are horrible at showing it cause they are all 3D animations, but this one is the best and you can kinda see it [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxXq-1U8qU[/url]

I would recommend popping in Episode 5 if you want to get a good illustraion of the legs in action.[/QUOTE]

Double knee and triple knee mechs are quite troublesome if you dont get the weights right, the amount of joints just makes the leg floppy and to make it stiff youd need to make the thigh and shin weigh more which in turn fucks up the walking movement and to counter that fuck up youd need to make the foot heavier which sends us back to the leg being floppy.

[Sestze]

[QUOTE=Gibbo;17107543]Double knee and triple knee mechs are quite troublesome if you dont get the weights right, the amount of joints just makes the leg floppy and to make it stiff youd need to make the thigh and shin weigh more which in turn fucks up the walking movement and to counter that fuck up youd need to make the foot heavier which sends us back to the leg being floppy.[/QUOTE]
perhaps the answer to the sag is a small amount of elastic, or a slightly loose slave setting from the midknee to the hip?

(this is what I do - it works occasionally)

[heybubba1992]

[QUOTE=Sestze;17108300]perhaps the answer to the sag is a small amount of elastic, or a slightly loose slave setting from the midknee to the hip?

(this is what I do - it works occasionally)[/QUOTE]

Ive found that weighing the legs at 200 ibs, as in both the thigh and leg weighing 200 equaling 400 together, along with the feet weighing in at 8000 with elastics set to 200000 constant and 2000 dampening is very very stable. just place the elastics in the correct positions and that's what does it for me.

[Gibbo]

[QUOTE=heybubba1992;17124503]Ive found that weighing the legs at 200 ibs, as in both the thigh and leg weighing 200 equaling 400 together, along with the feet weighing in at 8000 with elastics set to 200000 constant and 2000 dampening is very very stable. just place the elastics in the correct positions and that's what does it for me.[/QUOTE]

Those are VERY low weights compaired to most acf worthy mechs.

[heybubba1992]

oh well i dont know what acf is. i just build them to build them and to say i can lol

[editline]11:55PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Gibbo;17143325]Those are VERY low weights compaired to most acf worthy mechs.[/QUOTE]

what would you weigh everything? because with the chip ive found any weight higher makes the hip completely spazz when you turn it on, and then when its off its totally fine...

[Gibbo]

[QUOTE=heybubba1992;17147618]oh well i dont know what acf is. i just build them to build them and to say i can lol

[editline]11:55PM[/editline]

what would you weigh everything? because with the chip ive found any weight higher makes the hip completely spazz when you turn it on, and then when its off its totally fine...[/QUOTE]

2500 for hip and feet and 1500 for the thigh and shin.