Copycat uploaders on workshop - Garry's Mod

I meant that if you where to be on the workshop, people would rather download the official one than a ripoff. Anyway, I want your addons to reach people just like you do and I apologize for making such a big thing out of this - but Its not only your work that is not reaching the players but also mine. So I have an idea. How about I add a link to where people can download what I did and later the link to your download in my workshop pack description instead of uploading the addons? Then you would still have control over what gets distributed and its not on workshop. Maybe Ill use media fire or the sort for now.

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159820]So I have an idea. How about I add a link to where people can download what I did and later the link to your download in my workshop pack description instead of uploading the addons? Then you would still have control over what gets distributed and its not on workshop. Maybe Ill use media fire or the sort for now.[/QUOTE] That sounds like a good enough compromise, thank you for being reasonable. I'll announce when my tools are fully updated in the official thread shortly after the GM13 release, so you can update your links.

I understand your point of view, Wenli, but I think you're misreading the uploaders' intentions. When someone uploads something with clauses such as "I didn't make this, here's who did" or "this may not work" I don't think it's a case of flagrancy and theft as much as it is an upload made for archival or usability purposes, usually when it seems the mod is abandoned or as a temporary measure until the real author can get their work up. I don't know if my "Wenli's Build Tools - Raw Upload" file back in the GM13Beta Workshop left you feeling sour and was the catalyst for this thread (I [i]did[/i] see your comment), but if that's the case, I apologize. However, speaking from that experience, I don't believe these uploaders are "thieves" as much as they are well-intentioned people trying to preserve old add-ons who will readily take them down at the original authors' request, as I did.

[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;38181762]I understand your point of view, Wenli, but I think you're misreading the uploaders' intentions. When someone uploads something with clauses such as "I didn't make this, here's who did" or "this may not work" I don't think it's a case of flagrancy and theft as much as it is an upload made for archival or usability purposes, usually when it seems the mod is abandoned or as a temporary measure until the real author can get their work up. I don't know if my "Wenli's Build Tools - Raw Upload" file back in the GM13Beta Workshop left you feeling sour and was the catalyst for this thread (I [i]did[/i] see your comment), but if that's the case, I apologize. However, speaking from that experience, I don't believe these uploaders are "thieves" as much as they are well-intentioned people trying to preserve old add-ons who will readily take them down at the original authors' request, as I did.[/QUOTE] He's already said, he's in disagreement with the Workshop TOS. What you've done is assumed he agreed to it

Fair point. Not to mention that in the past week the amount of copycat uploaders on the release Workshop has gotten pretty bad, so I'll actually agree with him now that we probably need someone to cut down on this, or at least a really big notice that says "DON'T UPLOAD STUFF YOU DIDN'T MAKE." I admit I was mistaken in reuploading the Build Tools despite my good intentions, but I think most people should have realized by [i]this[/i] point that if the original author wants their stuff on the Workshop, they'll do it themselves. The amount of clones you have to sift through to find the "official" copy of an addon is getting ridiculous.

People are starting to re-upload mine as well. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=105780245[/url] I'm also unable to upload mine as well since the workshop tool refuses to upload anything. I've tried re-downloading it but it just won't upload anything.

Press report if you're the author and report it.

[QUOTE=garry;38338454]Press report if you're the author and report it.[/QUOTE] I already did so. I'm glad we have that feature. I'm also having problems with the Workshop tool not allowing me to upload anything; can you think of a reason for this? I've run as admin and redownloaded but it still won't work.

I agree with amplar i mean i really need ball and socket centre and axis centre but wenli if u can help me on getting them please:wink:

I think one point that hasn't been made here, is that not only is lua opensource, but addon/mod code is just that. I'm not taking any sides, but unless Wenli specifically copyrights his work and has it on paper that what he coded is what he coded and that it is not to be modified or redistributed, how would that ever stand up up? What happens if someone codes something near identical in lua, who gets to claim ownership? That clause only applies to what you can legally prove legal ownership over. Again, I'm not taking sides though. I don't think anyone should upload anything without permission from the author. But I do honestly feel Tingle has done nothing wrong and I'm glad you found a compromise.

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159656]This is the most stupidest discussion I've had in a long time. Wenli, I am more than willing to not upload a single addon of yours onto workshop. And even help report duplicates..., if you actually hosted the official one there. But dude, if your not on workshop you don't have any influence on it, so you cant control whats happening there. Which ultimately means exactly that happens what you don't want. I mean, its common sense that if you want people to use your version of your addon, that you are going to have to provide it. And people want your addons, so they will host and share it on workshop. Why cant you see that?[/QUOTE] While i agree it's stupid to make a script available everywhere except the workshop, you should still respect his wishes and not upload his scripts if he doesn't want them uploaded. The workshop is a lot tidier than gmod.org and if you're the original author then it only helps if you have your copy on the workshop so you have concrete evidence that you are the original owner. If you report someone for stealing your addon but you don't have your original version on the workshop then what the fuck do you expect garry/valve to do? I'm sure they don't have the time to open every lua script and verify that you are the guy that wrote it. I think a standard needs to be set though, the workshop needs a big bold warning that says [b]Do Not Upload Things You Didn't Make[/b] and anyone found breaking the rule is banned permanently from uploading. The workshop should be a place where people can share THEIR creations, not the creations of others.

It is a mod for a mod, I do not think valve will make anything off of it. Even so, people are going to fix other peoples stuff if they take too long, and then post that working version on the workshop. If it gets removed from there they will post it elsewhere. Its great if you do not want them to be on the workshop, others addons like Wire are not as well. But! They have updated their addon and made it available through other means. Until there is an official svn or whatnot there will be copycats and people happily using those copycat versions.

[QUOTE=hella pat;38159420]get it through your head; IT'S NOT YOUR DECISION[/QUOTE] If you're trying to point out, or put mass emphasis on something, it's a colon. [editline]9th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159656]This is the most stupidest discussion I've had in a long time. [/QUOTE] He fixed addons, and people don't like that? I have to agree with this statement.

[QUOTE=Muggy;38382948] He fixed addons, and people don't like that? I have to agree with this statement.[/QUOTE] Wenli doesn't want his stuff on Workshop. What's so hard to understand? So Wenli is taking a long time to update his stools. Big deal. That's not an excuse to go and take things into your own matters and ignore the creator's wishes of not wanting it on Workshop.

Wenli has been online a grand total of 5 minutes in the last week and a half; obviously there is something going on. I have to say that I am disappointed in the attitude held by some of the people in the build community, you know who you are. Nevertheless, you guys will just have to be patient.

I really think garry should enlist some of us who can spend our spare time going through addons and removing the stolen ones. I know he wont but it would best to start soon, the workshop is becoming just like .org

Please tell me there's something against uploading dupes with only one model from some obscure addon. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=105476943&tscn=1352580978[/url] He has 30+ more dupes with just one model from the minecraft addon he has. [sp]Read the comments.[/sp] [editline]11th November 2012[/editline] [quote]This item is incompatible with Garry's Mod. Please see the instructions page for reasons why this item might not work within Garry's Mod.[/quote] :dance:

It would be great if garry could work together with valve about using a different license policy for garrysmod-workshop / lua-based addons so the developers don't become in conflict with valve's workshop licensing policy, then where is the point in having a easy to use workshop if developers don't want or can't accept the current valve-policy. What licensing terms does the source-engine used by mods like garrysmod or the LUA itself from garrysmod has anyway? I mean if its for example similar to GPL - then everything you code in LUA has to be GPL too, or not?

[QUOTE=code_X;38410844]It would be great if garry could work together with valve about using a different license policy for garrysmod-workshop / lua-based addons so the developers don't become in conflict with valve's workshop licensing policy, then where is the point in having a easy to use workshop if developers don't want or can't accept the current valve-policy. What licensing terms does the source-engine used by mods like garrysmod or the LUA itself from garrysmod has anyway? I mean if its for example similar to GPL - then everything you code in LUA has to be GPL too, or not?[/QUOTE] When you use Lua (or any programming language) it's not the language itself that's subject to copyright - it's the code that interprets, compiles and executes the code. The syntax any programming language is nothing more than words that describe an idea. You can not copyright words. Therefor anything you write using the lua syntax is not subject to GPL.

I was thinking about GPL licensed librarys garrysmod's LUA or the mod itself might be using. This would mean if you use such a lib / making use of it, link it, even in the LUA you code, you have to put your whole code into same GPL license because its derivative work.

This is what I think. You should not be uploading stuff you didn't make (at least without the permission of the author). It doesn't matter if it's not already on the workshop, or if you've slightly improved it, or if you've fixed all the bugs. The last thing we need is the same situation we had on garrysmod.org, which was full of buggy, broken uploads of other people's work. It's not just a pain in the arse for people to find the official one, it's also a pain in the arse for the author, because he then has to politely ask the duplicate uploaders to remove theirs. Which they don't do. Old versions of Wiremod, for example, were repeatedly uploaded to garrysmod.org despite the fact that there was a big-arse warning in the folder telling you [b]not to upload it.[/b] You might think you're doing people a favour by fixing people's stuff, but trust me, they'd probably rather you left that job to them. They did make it, after all. And while we're on the subject, can we stop uploading icons made in 10 seconds with paint? Thanks.

I don't have any problem with that. The thing is Wenli and other addon-developers don't want/can't to put it onto workshop mainly because of the licensing issues and because of that we now have more and more "copycats" that don't care, don't read, don't understand, or just want to help. Happy time reporting them. On the other side we have now great addons which can't make use of the workshop improvements (subscribing, easy updating, garrys loading times improvements...), so we are still stuck by using SVN and Git and people that asking how and where to get it or people that don't update and reporting things already fixed long time ago. So the root of the whole problem is the unclear license issue that don't allow addon developers to put their own license to their workshop addon, and thats a point only garry can solve by talking to valve. And if garry decides one day to take off the legacy addon system completly, we would loose great people like Wenli because they would have no other choice. [QUOTE]You might think you're doing people a favour by fixing people's stuff, but trust me, they'd probably rather you left that job to them. They did make it, after all.[/QUOTE] There are many developers, that are happy about any help they can get by means in fixing, we are a community, and if I can help them, I do. That Wenli isn't one of them, I couldn't know before - and I asked.

did you know that's mainly for tf2 it's so if someone has a nice item to suggest and have created, they give valve the authority to publish it officially.

I don't care about the workshop, my point is someone goin upload the already fixed versions on Mediafire and Dropbox and where ever else and share them that way until there are official ones. Ud think creating some of the most useful tools of all time would warrant a speedy update.

[QUOTE=spider0804;38418815]Ud think creating some of the most useful tools of all time would warrant a speedy update.[/QUOTE] You would think creating some of the most useful tools of all time would warrant just a smidgen of patience and understanding; you know, considering almost every contraption built by a serious builder in the last 3 years would have been infinitely more difficult, if not impossible, without them. I've even seen a douchebag call Wenli a "greedy whore". Wtf, people.

Maybe this shows the importance of including proper documentation with the stuff you release... "Never, ever upload my shit anywhere else or attempt to modify or fix it even if I'm dead" vs "Do with this what you want to, but give credit to me"

I don't think wenli is being greedy, but he could allow other people to upload fixed versions of his tool at least until he fixes it himself, which I'd been waiting for ever since GM13 came out and I can't build at all without his tool. Again, I don't think wenli is doing anything wrong, but he's not allowing good things to happen either, everyone knows if they like the tool they'll end up getting the SVN directly from wenli and not some pirated version, but please, there's no svn yet, let us have something!!

wenli puts his unfinished gmod13 port to github, people fork it, people knowing how to and the need to fix it make pull requests of their fixes, wenli approves changes as he wants, soon fully working gmod13 port with wenli's added additions, still keeping the control of it all. Just my two cents.

Thats exactly what I asked month ago in his thread, never got any feedback or response. And more than a month later I just started to put my fixes on github in the thought it would help him or the community. I got take down request from him one day after. Understandable because I had no permission from him, neither I had the opposite. But he could had me stopped earlier, then I could have spent my free time in helping others fixing their addons.

Well now I can say from personal experience that I agree with wenli's position on all this. Just gave someone I know a private model that I was still working on for the mario community on deviantart, he just goes and gives it to everybody he knows despite me telling him not to give it too anybody yet. Copycat uploaders must be stopped.