[QUOTE=Capt. Cock;30314403]Currently, this feature can be enabled if you have access to the mac app store, and can buy xcode for $5.
however this is a planned feature for iOS 5.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a52zu-ocAd0[/media][/QUOTE]
Okay, cool, but this isn't something everyone has access by default, and in Symbian it's actually running in the background, so you're not loading your shit again, you're back just where you were.. Thanks, though, I was asking about multitasking in iOS 5.
[QUOTE=Epic Sandwich;30314671]I thought you had to be a developer as well? I'm sure you need to install a provisioning profile on the iPad you want to do it on, and no dev account = no provisioning profile. I could be wrong though.[/QUOTE]
Nope, just plug your iPad in, it will show up in the devices list in Xcode, then you "use for development"
[editline]7th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30314851]Okay, cool, but this isn't something everyone has access, too, and in Symbian it's actually running in the background, so you're not loading your shit again, you're back just where you were.. Thanks, though, I was asking about multitasking in iOS 5.[/QUOTE]
Maybe Im not understanding what you mean, but I never have to load anything again on my iPad using multitasking, games suspend perfectly, and videos play from they were paused at, etc. Now I do agree 100% that it would awesome to see a redesign of the multitasking system so that it works like expose but the gestures do make a big difference. I also hope they add some damn widgets before they release iOS 5. Damn, how hard is it to put a "dashboard" screen in iOS... At least give us some widgets in the notification center that we can customize.
[QUOTE=Capt. Cock;30315070]Nope, just plug your iPad in, it will show up in the devices list in Xcode, then you "use for development"
[editline]7th June 2011[/editline]
Maybe Im not understanding what you mean, but I never have to load anything again on my iPad using multitasking, games suspend perfectly, and videos play from they were paused at, etc. Now I do agree 100% that it would awesome to see a redesign of the multitasking system so that it works like expose but the gestures do make a big difference. I also hope they add some damn widgets before they release iOS 5. Damn, how hard is it to put a "dashboard" screen in iOS... At least give us some widgets in the notification center that we can customize.[/QUOTE]
I've probably misunderstanded some of the things you've said, too, but yeah, kinda like expose you could say.
It's very easy to misunderstand someone when communicating through text instead of spoken word, I apologize if I came across negatively lol.
[QUOTE=Capt. Cock;30315070]Nope, just plug your iPad in, it will show up in the devices list in Xcode, then you "use for development"[/quote]Nice, never knew.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30303371]1:34
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Z2fSBmptc[/media]
And just to show that this has been in Symbian for a long time:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQqbpK_uYlM[/media][/QUOTE]
The only difference is that iOS restricts what tasks can be run in background. Instead of being retarded like Symbian, and running the whole program in background, including the UI / renderer (waste of CPU / memory), iOS does a smart thing and stores a snapshot of the program in RAM (for the last few applications, and if older, stores the snapshot in it's normal memory). This is smart because it means switching back to the apps is quick, but also never wastes CPU resources, and therefore battery resources.
The only time it ever has to reload an app is if it was compiled under an old iOS SDK or if the app is designed to restart everytime it's opened.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30324115]The only difference is that iOS restricts what tasks can be run in background. Instead of being retarded like Symbian, and running the whole program in background, including the UI / renderer (waste of CPU / memory), iOS does a smart thing and stores a snapshot of the program in RAM (for the last few applications, and if older, stores the snapshot in it's normal memory). This is smart because it means switching back to the apps is quick, but also never wastes CPU resources, and therefore battery resources.
The only time it ever has to reload an app is if it was compiled under an old iOS SDK or if the app is designed to restart everytime it's opened.[/QUOTE]
I personally like the way Symbian does it, even though you might be of an other opinion, and while it may be retarded and all, I haven't seen it running out of memory unless it was done on purpose.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30325556]I personally like the way Symbian does it, even though you might be of an other opinion, and while it may be retarded and all, I haven't seen it running out of memory unless it was done on purpose.[/QUOTE]
nothing to do with memory. the problem is wasting cpu cycles on worthless activities, such as rending the ui when it isn't even in the foreground. symbian was a joke. so many stupid mistakes like that.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30325863]nothing to do with memory. the problem is wasting cpu cycles on worthless activities, such as rending the ui when it isn't even in the foreground. symbian was a joke. so many stupid mistakes like that.[/QUOTE]
And at the same time many useful features that we only begin to see comnign out on other platforms now.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30326296]And at the same time many useful features that we only begin to see comnign out on other platforms now.[/QUOTE]
like what?
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30326312]like what?[/QUOTE]
Multitasking in the way that you actually have some "windows" of your applications, I'm not going to mention widgets, since it's pretty much just the iPhone missing those. I knoow devices nowhave google maps and so forth, but OVi maps is pretty damn useful, and comes with every device Nokia currently produces. If youhead over to Nokia Beta Labs, you'll find some pretty cool stuff there, too.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30326468]Multitasking in the way that you actually have some "windows" of your applications[/QUOTE]
haha how useless.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30326468]I'm not going to mention widgets, since it's pretty much just the iPhone missing those.[/quote]
while the iphone is missing them, i saw them before symbian on the first android phones, plus some other samsung propriety phones.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30326468]If youhead over to Nokia Beta Labs, you'll find some pretty cool stuff there, too.[/QUOTE]
there's a reason symbian development is now dead
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30326598]haha how useless.
while the iphone is missing them, i saw them before symbian on the first android phones, plus some other samsung propriety phones.
there's a reason symbian development is now dead[/QUOTE]
Okay, you think it's useless, I find it useful. Whatever floats your boat. The reason Symbian developement is "dead" as you call it, is because it isn't "dead": [url]http://www.forum.nokia.com/Distribute/Ovi_Store_statistics.xhtml[/url]
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30326668]Okay, you think it's useless, I find it useful. Whatever floats your boat. The reason Symbian developement is "dead" as you call it, is because it isn't "dead": [url]http://www.forum.nokia.com/Distribute/Ovi_Store_statistics.xhtml[/url][/QUOTE]
it is dead:
[url]http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/interviews/229402355[/url]
they've handed it off. nokia don't want it anymore.
there's a reason why nokia have lost their marketshare from 50% of mobile phones to 25% this year. their phone's ui have been shit. symbian is crap.
it's exactly whyt hey're picking up windows mobile now instead
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30326712]it is dead:
[url]http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/interviews/229402355[/url]
they've handed it off. nokia don't want it anymore.
there's a reason why nokia have lost their marketshare from 50% of mobile phones to 25% this year. their phone's ui have been shit. symbian is crap.
it's exactly whyt hey're picking up windows mobile now instead[/QUOTE]
I don't understand why people are saying that Symbian's marketshare drops because it's crap, or doesn't sell much anymore. The problem with this argument is that it's not Symbian that has grown smaller, but the market that has grown bigger. Symbian is getting updates till 2016 anyway, so saying it's dead meat is pretty dumb. The iPhone 2G and 3G are dead meat, and they stopped getting updates whhen the iPhone 4 came out (as far as I know). And you saying something about the UI? While it may not be incredibly slick like the WP7 UI, it's nnot tooo bad if you've tried it in person. It's fluid, and overall pretty snappy. And compared to the gold covered crap called iOS, it's pretty useful. As you can see from the statistics I posted about Ovi, developers aren't exactly running away, and Symbian^3's "Anne" update is just round the corner, improving alot of things.
They're picking up WP7, and I'm happy for it because after the Mango update, it'll have both a great UI and the usefulness that Symbian^3 had.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30326768]I don't understand why people are saying that Symbian's marketsgare drops because it's crapp, or doesn't seel much anymore. The problem with this argument is that it's not Symbian that has grown smaller, but the market that has grown bigger.[/quote]
Do you really think not a single person has swapped their Symbian smartphone for any other smartphone platform by now?
[quote]Symbian is getting updates till 2016 anyway, so saying it's dead meat is pretty dumb.[/quote]
XP still gets updates, but XP is only going one place (Hint: down)
[quote]The iPhone 2G and 3G are dead meat, and they stopped getting updates whhen the iPhone 4 came out (as far as I know).[/quote]
iPhone 3G is still supported software wise. When the iPhone 4 was released they stopped selling iPhone 3Gs, but they are still a fully supported iPhone.
[quote]And you saying something about the UI? While it may not be incredibly slick like the WP7 UI, it's nnot tooo bad if you've tried it in person. It's fluid, and overall pretty snappy. And compared to the gold covered crap called iOS, it's pretty useful.[/quote]
[quote="Engadget 5800 XPress review]
[img]http://www.blogcdn.com/mobile.engadget.com/media/2009/03/nokia-5800-review-22-sm.jpg[/img]
The problems begin the instant you power on the phone for the first time. In the process of setting your region and the date and time, you need to choose AM or PM (at least, you do here in the States where we use the vastly inferior 12-hour system). Here's the problem: the on-screen numeric keypad you're presented doesn't have letters below each number like you're used to seeing on a traditional handset, so you've just got to guess where "A" and "P" might be. [Correction: AM / PM can be toggled by pressing any number, which makes no more sense. -Ed.] Granted, it's not the end of the world -- many of us have the letter layout memorized anyhow -- but it's a dead simple usability miss that should've never made it past Nokia's testing department. The AM / PM thing also starkly demonstrates 5th Edition's core problem: wide swaths of it are simply 3.2 carry-overs that have been gently reworked to become "usable" without a physical keypad. Needless to say, it feels like Nokia's being dragged kicking and screaming into the world of touch. Maybe it is.
[img]http://www.blogcdn.com/mobile.engadget.com/media/2009/03/nokia-5800-review-24-sm.jpg[/img]
Speaking of keypads, 5th Edition has many to choose from -- and few (if any) of them make much sense. Pictured here is the city search keypad, which we think would bewilder even seasoned touchscreen and Nokia veterans -- it looks more like a puzzle game of some sort than an input method. Even worse, keys start disappearing once you type to restrict it to letters that correspond to entries in the city list; it sounds intuitive, but in reality, it's pretty disorienting when your keypad looks like this to start.
[img]http://www.blogcdn.com/mobile.engadget.com/media/2009/03/nokia-5800-review-200-sm.jpg[/img]
We never got the hang of knowing when pressing on an input field would pop up a part-screen or full-screen keypad, but there isn't any consistency that's meaningful to the user. As far as we're concerned, with the exception of perhaps the landscape QWERTY option, none of the input methods has any excuse for obscuring the whole screen. In the pictured example here, we're in the Notes app -- but for some reason, the landscape numeric keypad (which can be used in both T9 and triple-tap modes) takes up the whole screen. There's no good reason for it, and frankly, we're not sure why you'd ever want to use this style of keypad in landscape mode anyway.[/quote]
And even on Symbian ^3 the keyboard is like this
[img]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/10/nokia-n8-review-ui-01-sm.jpg[/img]
Genuinely horrendous.
[quote]As you can see from the statistics I posted about Ovi, developers aren't exactly running away, and Symbian^3's "Anne" update is just round the corner, improving alot of things.[/quote]
That link shows there are 225 million Symbian phones out there, yet only 50,000 apps? With such a huge market available developers should be tripping over themselves to make Symbian apps, but if they were, we would know about it
[quote]They're picking up WP7, and I'm happy for it because after the Mango update, it'll have both a great UI and the usefulness that Symbian^3 had.[/QUOTE]
Symbian will be great when it gets an update, but it doesn't matter because they are now going to use WP7, which will be great when it gets an update? (Side note: WP7 has been a car crash of a platform so far anyway)
[QUOTE=Dr Egg;30327324]Do you really think not a single person has swapped their Symbian smartphone for any other smartphone platform by now?
XP still gets updates, but XP is only going one place (Hint: down)
iPhone 3G is still supported software wise. When the iPhone 4 was released they stopped selling iPhone 3Gs, but they are still a fully supported iPhone.
And even on Symbian ^3 the keyboard is like this
[img]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/10/nokia-n8-review-ui-01-sm.jpg[/img]
Genuinely horrendous.
That link shows there are 225 million Symbian phones out there, yet only 50,000 apps? With such a huge market available developers should be tripping over themselves to make Symbian apps, but if they were, we would know about it
Symbian will be great when it gets an update, but it doesn't matter because they are now going to use WP7, which will be great when it gets an update? (Side note: WP7 has been a car crash of a platform so far anyway)[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying a single person using Symbian hasn't changed to another platform , and I didn't even imply so, you're just putting words in my mouth for no apparent reason other than trying to make a rational argument seem ridiculous - Symbian is bigger than ever, but the marketshare is going down.
A thing you're all missing is that you're not limited to the Symbian UI at all - you can change the skin, keyboard, any time you fucking want. The phone I had 5 years ago was more customizable than the iPhone, and in my opnion it's ridiculous that people no longer thinks of customization as something you can do on a phone.
Developers aren't tripping over eachother because there's other great platforms out there that is going to sell alot more in the future than Symbian will, but you don't think 50000 apps is enough? You people on Mac OSX should be accustomed to only have a handful of apps, so you should probably be more comfortable with it than I am.
Symbian is already great, and it'll get an update and get better yet. You don't seem to be able to cope with that WP7 after the Mango update will be more useful, elegant and fresh than iOS, and you pretty much resort to sales to say that it's shit. Now, if we said marketshare = quality, you've pretty much agreed on that Symbian is great and fantastic, and Mac OSX is the turd lying at the bottom of the drain. So, thanks for agreeing with me, I guess. (side note: Try to stop making shit logic (like the one I just did in the last part of this post) it doesn't help you at all.)
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30327685]I'm not saying a single person using Symbian hasn't changed to another platform , and I didn't even imply so, you're just putting words in my mouth for no apparent reason other than trying to make a rational argument seem ridiculous - Symbian is bigger than ever, but the marketshare is going down.[/quote]
You yourself said that Symbian hadn't grown smaller. Pretty much everyone else would say otherwise. As for Symbian being bigger than ever, did you miss the article where Nokia cut 4000 jobs in Symbian?
[quote]A thing you're all missing is that you're not limited to the Symbian UI at all - you can change the skin, keyboard, any time you fucking want. The phone I had 5 years ago was more customizable than the iPhone, and in my opnion it's ridiculous that people no longer thinks of customization as something you can do on a phone.[/quote]
And as I've always said, just because you can change it, doesn't excuse you for making the default shit. As for people not thinking you can customise your phone, I'd argue that people reckon they can do that more than ever. So what if you can't change the back cover or the menu theme? Phones now connect directly to your Facebook, your Twitter, sync all your contacts, tell you the weather etc etc, they have become deeply personal and individual devices. Things which the iPhone won't let you customise are things which are just a different way of doing something that already exists (keyboards, dialers etc etc). The iPhone lets you download any app you want from the app store and use that. You can add functionality on an iPhone, you just can't replace existing functionality. Is that a loss of some form of customisability? Absolutely. Does anyone care? Some people do, but they don't have to buy an iPhone. There are hundreds of "Open" Android phones that you can do what you want with.
[quote]Developers aren't tripping over eachother because there's other great platforms out there that is going to sell alot more in the future than Symbian will, but you don't think 50000 apps is enough? You people on Mac OSX should be accustomed to only have a handful of apps, so you should probably be more comfortable with it than I am.[/quote]
But Symbian is "bigger than ever", and has the biggest market share of any mobile OS so far. I'm not saying 50,000 apps isn't enough, but the amount of apps available is a good rough estimate of how popular a platform is in this day and age. Symbian has the biggest marketshare, but can't seem to turn it into a successful platform to compete with the like of iOS and Android.
[quote]Symbian is already great, and it'll get an update and get better yet. You don't seem to be able to cope with that WP7 after the Mango update will be more useful, elegant and fresh than iOS, and you pretty much resort to sales to say that it's shit.[/quote]
And how do you come to that conclusion? All I said was that Microsoft have utterly fucked up the launch of WP7. They can't updating without breaking phones (an issue that mandating phone specifications was supposed to avoid), they can't update it without the carriers messing about testing it and delaying it (which they said wouldn't happen), they can't even make updates on a vaguely timely schedule even though the OS had bugs when released (which is of course unavoidable for a first release really, but they should be hard at work patching and cleaning up their new baby) and feature wise was far behind the competition. Windows Phone 7 had/has amazing potential, and Microsoft is squandering it. As for "resorting to sales to say that it's shit", I didn't even mention WP7 sales in my post.
[quote]Now, if we said marketshare = quality, you've pretty much agreed on that Symbian is great and fantastic, and Mac OSX is the turd lying at the bottom of the drain. So, thanks for agreeing with me, I guess. (side note: Try to stop making shit logic (like the one I just did in the last part of this post) it doesn't help you at all.)[/QUOTE]
I'd hate to think what Linux is then. (Side note: Atleast my "shit logic" involves refuting what you say, rather than making up stuff)
[QUOTE=Dr Egg;30328291]You yourself said that Symbian hadn't grown smaller. Pretty much everyone else would say otherwise. As for Symbian being bigger than ever, did you miss the article where Nokia cut 4000 jobs in Symbian?
And as I've always said, just because you can change it, doesn't excuse you for making the default shit. As for people not thinking you can customise your phone, I'd argue that people reckon they can do that more than ever. So what if you can't change the back cover or the menu theme? Phones now connect directly to your Facebook, your Twitter, sync all your contacts, tell you the weather etc etc, they have become deeply personal and individual devices. Things which the iPhone won't let you customise are things which are just a different way of doing something that already exists (keyboards, dialers etc etc). The iPhone lets you download any app you want from the app store and use that. You can add functionality on an iPhone, you just can't replace existing functionality. Is that a loss of some form of customisability? Absolutely. Does anyone care? Some people do, but they don't have to buy an iPhone. There are hundreds of "Open" Android phones that you can do what you want with.
But Symbian is "bigger than ever", and has the biggest market share of any mobile OS so far. I'm not saying 50,000 apps isn't enough, but the amount of apps available is a good rough estimate of how popular a platform is in this day and age. Symbian has the biggest marketshare, but can't seem to turn it into a successful platform to compete with the like of iOS and Android.
And how do you come to that conclusion? All I said was that Microsoft have utterly fucked up the launch of WP7. They can't updating without breaking phones (an issue that mandating phone specifications was supposed to avoid), they can't update it without the carriers messing about testing it and delaying it (which they said wouldn't happen), they can't even make updates on a vaguely timely schedule even though the OS had bugs when released (which is of course unavoidable for a first release really, but they should be hard at work patching and cleaning up their new baby) and feature wise was far behind the competition. Windows Phone 7 had/has amazing potential, and Microsoft is squandering it. As for "resorting to sales to say that it's shit", I didn't even mention WP7 sales in my post.
I'd hate to think what Linux is then. (Side note: Atleast my "shit logic" involves refuting what you say, rather than making up stuff)[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understand what I mean with Symbian is bigger than ever. It's biigger than, not marketshare-wise, but if you count up how many users there is, it is.
Symbian^3 is getting an update with portrait qwerty and so on, and alot of performance and stability improvements. Many people think of Symbian^3 as an update to S60 5th edition, like gingerbread is an update to froyo, but in my opinion, it isn't. The difference is too big, and I'm not of the opinion that you can't say it's an udate, but rather a totally new OS. With that comes mistakes, bugs and so on that needs to be worked out, and that 's what they're doing. The first Android OS was far from perfect, too, and in my opinion Android has first really come out as a out-of-beta OS as of 2.1.
You didn't directlymention WP7 sales in your post, but you compared it to a car crash. The current problem with WP7, and why Nokia can't use it before the Mango update, is that most countries can't access the marketplace without doing some workarounds. I'm too of the opinion that Microsoft made a fuck-up by not doing that, but WP7 is a new OS that comes into a very crowded market, and in my opinion they have with the Mangoo update they will have accomplished more than iOS could in 4.
(side note: I used shit-logic to simply make fun of your shit-logic, so atleast I didn't use shit-logic becaase I thought it was actually logical)
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30328494]I don't think you understand what I mean with Symbian is bigger than ever. It's biigger than, not marketshare-wise, but if you count up how many users there is, it is.[/quote]
No I know that is what you were talking about. It is still the biggest mobile OS marketshare wise, but it's not losing marketshare purely because of the bigger market. Symbian has been losing users to other platforms. That is why I am saying Symbian is becoming smaller. And to back that up Nokia themselves cut off Symbian because it was clearly circling the drain.
[quote]You didn't directlymention WP7 sales in your post, but you compared it to a car crash. [/quote]
Because Microsoft has treated it appalingly. While it is true it hasn't exactly sold well either, sales have no bearing on a platforms quality, so I wouldn't have said WP7 was a car crash based on sales.
[quote]The current problem with WP7, and why Nokia can't use it before the Mango update, is that most countries can't access the marketplace without doing some workarounds. I'm too of the opinion that Microsoft made a fuck-up by not doing that, but WP7 is a new OS that comes into a very crowded market, and in my opinion they have with the Mangoo update they will have accomplished more than iOS could in 4.[/quote]
The current problem with WP7 is that it represented Microsoft's clean break and "we're listening" to customers, and Microsoft threw it back in their face by not properly supporting their own OS (at least not to the extent managed by other companies, even though Microsoft's forte is software). That coupled with the fact WP7 was basically on feature parity with iPhone circa 2007 when it launched in 2010 didn't help matters either.
[quote](side note: I used shit-logic to simply make fun of your shit-logic, so atleast I didn't use shit-logic becaase I thought it was actually logical)[/QUOTE]
To be honest I don't even know what parts of my post you think employs this so called "shit-logic" anyway.
[QUOTE=Dr Egg;30328967]No I know that is what you were talking about. It is still the biggest mobile OS marketshare wise, but it's not losing marketshare purely because of the bigger market. Symbian has been losing users to other platforms. That is why I am saying Symbian is becoming smaller. And to back that up Nokia themselves cut off Symbian because it was clearly circling the drain.
Because Microsoft has treated it appalingly. While it is true it hasn't exactly sold well either, sales have no bearing on a platforms quality, so I wouldn't have said WP7 was a car crash based on sales.
The current problem with WP7 is that it represented Microsoft's clean break and "we're listening" to customers, and Microsoft threw it back in their face by not properly supporting their own OS (at least not to the extent managed by other companies, even though Microsoft's forte is software). That coupled with the fact WP7 was basically on feature parity with iPhone circa 2007 when it launched in 2010 didn't help matters either.
To be honest I don't even know what parts of my post you think employs this so called "shit-logic" anyway.[/QUOTE]
WP7 is totally new OS, iOS is not. And WP7 is getting iOS's features (and more) in an update that is coming in less than a year after launch. That's pretty decent in my book, and while they may have had some trouble with some Samsung phones not updating as they should, I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to get around updating phones pretty consistently, in the same way they have control over desktop Windows' updates. I just think it's a matter of time.
It doesn't matter if Symbian is losing customers to other platforms, as long as they gain new users (as I said this is a growing market). There weren't really any alternatives to Nokia smartphones in many countries a couple of years ago, so of course they're going to lose some to other platforms. Overall Symbian^3 is selling well, despite many techblogs' doomsday talk, and I think it will continue to do that for some time. Their app store is growing larger, too, even though it might not be as big as some other platforms'.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30329103]WP7 is totally new OS, iOS is not. And WP7 is getting iOS's features (and more) in an update that is coming in less than a year after launch. That's pretty decent in my book, and while they may have had some trouble with some Samsung phones not updating as they should, I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to get around updating phones pretty consistently, in the same way they have control over desktop Windows' updates. I just think it's a matter of time.[/quote]
But iOS was new 4 years ago now, and 4 years is a loooooooong time in technology, especially smartphones. The problem is Microsoft is competing in a marketplace that has already moved on. Now of course you can't expect them to nail every feature on the first go, but you've got to make a decent attempt at competing with products out now (and in the near future). If I built a brand new car today that was the equivalent of a Model T, and tried to sell it along side a modern BMW 5 Series, I'm pretty sure I would get criticised for missing what is considered basic features like sat nav and GPS and regenerative brakes and stuff, regardless of the quality of my Model T. It might well be the finest Model T you've ever seen, but it's still a Model T. WP7 is improving at a faster rate than iOS and Android, but it is still massively behind. iOS was criticised for missing key features too when it was launched, and it got there eventually, but it was still (quite rightly) criticised.
[quote]It doesn't matter if Symbian is losing customers to other platforms, as long as they gain new users (as I said this is a growing market). There weren't really any alternatives to Nokia smartphones in many countries a couple of years ago, so of course they're going to lose some to other platforms. Overall Symbian^3 is selling well, despite many techblogs' doomsday talk, and I think it will continue to do that for some time. Their app store is growing larger, too, even though it might not be as big as some other platforms'.[/QUOTE]
But it is selling to the wrong people. People who care about their phone aren't buying Symbian phones. Symbian is being sold to people who just need a phone and don't really care about it. It might be nice it can get apps, but it is not a priority. There is no overall enthusiasm behind the platform. It has 200 million+ customers, and yet Nokia can't get rid of it fast enough. That speaks volumes about the viability and profitability of Symbian as a platform
[QUOTE=Dr Egg;30331376]But iOS was new 4 years ago now, and 4 years is a loooooooong time in technology, especially smartphones. The problem is Microsoft is competing in a marketplace that has already moved on. Now of course you can't expect them to nail every feature on the first go, but you've got to make a decent attempt at competing with products out now (and in the near future). If I built a brand new car today that was the equivalent of a Model T, and tried to sell it along side a modern BMW 5 Series, I'm pretty sure I would get criticised for missing what is considered basic features like sat nav and GPS and regenerative brakes and stuff, regardless of the quality of my Model T. It might well be the finest Model T you've ever seen, but it's still a Model T. WP7 is improving at a faster rate than iOS and Android, but it is still massively behind. iOS was criticised for missing key features too when it was launched, and it got there eventually, but it was still (quite rightly) criticised.
But it is selling to the wrong people. People who care about their phone aren't buying Symbian phones. Symbian is being sold to people who just need a phone and don't really care about it. It might be nice it can get apps, but it is not a priority. There is no overall enthusiasm behind the platform. It has 200 million+ customers, and yet Nokia can't get rid of it fast enough. That speaks volumes about the viability and profitability of Symbian as a platform[/QUOTE]
Nokia is planning on selling 100+ million Symbian devices more, so that's a very slow way to move on. If you see Nokia's plann, it's not just leaving Symbian in the dust, but rather slowly substitute it with WP7. You say many people that doesn't care about their phone buys Symbian, and while I'm certain that many people thhat doon't buys it, this is liek that with every platform. I give alot of shits about phones, and certainly alot more than people I know that buys iPhones, Androids, and yeah, Nokia devices too. People are phone illiterate generally, deal with it. The iPhone gets sold rather on hardware, than software, and Nokia devices are too. If you have tried a Nokia N8, or maybe an E7 you'll see that they are certainly some of the best phones hardware-wise out there, and this sells, too.
I don't think you get what I was saying about WP7. Microsoft lost marketshare to iOS and Android, because they simply didn't care about it at the time. With WP7, they pretty much started from scratch, and it's fully understandable in my opinion that they didn't have time to incorporate all the features that is present in iOS and Android, but at the same time, pretty much nobody I know is aware of it's existence at all here in Denmark, and currently there's only one phone on one carrier, and at the same time only very subtly available (it's actually not even shown in their stores), so people are not even going to be buying WP7 before Mango is here.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30332807]Nokia is planning on selling 100+ million Symbian devices more, so that's a very slow way to move on. If you see Nokia's plann, it's not just leaving Symbian in the dust, but rather slowly substitute it with WP7.[/quote]
Because they have nothing else they can do. Symbian is only selling that much because Symbian is moving closer and closer to the low end to the market
You say many people that doesn't care about their phone buys Symbian, and while I'm certain that many people thhat doon't buys it, this is liek that with every platform. I give alot of shits about phones, and certainly alot more than people I know that buys iPhones, Androids, and yeah, Nokia devices too. People are phone illiterate generally, deal with it. The iPhone gets sold rather on hardware, than software, and Nokia devices are too. If you have tried a Nokia N8, or maybe an E7 you'll see that they are certainly some of the best phones hardware-wise out there, and this sells, too. [/quote]
My point is though that Symbian is selling to far far more to phone illiterate people than any other platofmr, hence the lack of interest from developers and Nokia themselves, because the people buying the phones aren't interested in Symbian. Also it's software that sells everything. You could have the nicest hardware in the world, but if the phone is unusable then it won't sell. No one cares if your phone has a fast processor or a ton of RAM. They only moderately care in how many mega pixels it has. People care that it looks good and it actually works well, which is Apple's strength, and something Google is still learning after all this time.
[quote]I don't think you get what I was saying about WP7. Microsoft lost marketshare to iOS and Android, because they simply didn't care about it at the time. With WP7, they pretty much started from scratch, and it's fully understandable in my opinion that they didn't have time to incorporate all the features that is present in iOS and Android[/quote]
I said exactly that.
[quote]but at the same time, pretty much nobody I know is aware of it's existence at all here in Denmark, and currently there's only one phone on one carrier, and at the same time only very subtly available (it's actually not even shown in their stores), so people are not even going to be buying WP7 before Mango is here.[/QUOTE]
People aren't holding out on WP7 because Mango is coming out soon. People bought G1s even though the hardware was so meh. People bought the first iPhone even though it was missing about 90% of the features other smartphones had. People aren't buying WP7 because the phones are so terrible. The either look ugly, or have the worst LCD panels you've ever seen. A software update isn't going to change anything like that
[QUOTE=Dr Egg;30349271]Because they have nothing else they can do. Symbian is only selling that much because Symbian is moving closer and closer to the low end to the market
You say many people that doesn't care about their phone buys Symbian, and while I'm certain that many people thhat doon't buys it, this is liek that with every platform. I give alot of shits about phones, and certainly alot more than people I know that buys iPhones, Androids, and yeah, Nokia devices too. People are phone illiterate generally, deal with it. The iPhone gets sold rather on hardware, than software, and Nokia devices are too. If you have tried a Nokia N8, or maybe an E7 you'll see that they are certainly some of the best phones hardware-wise out there, and this sells, too.
My point is though that Symbian is selling to far far more to phone illiterate people than any other platofmr, hence the lack of interest from developers and Nokia themselves, because the people buying the phones aren't interested in Symbian. Also it's software that sells everything. You could have the nicest hardware in the world, but if the phone is unusable then it won't sell. No one cares if your phone has a fast processor or a ton of RAM. They only moderately care in how many mega pixels it has. People care that it looks good and it actually works well, which is Apple's strength, and something Google is still learning after all this time.
I said exactly that.
People aren't holding out on WP7 because Mango is coming out soon. People bought G1s even though the hardware was so meh. People bought the first iPhone even though it was missing about 90% of the features other smartphones had. People aren't buying WP7 because the phones are so terrible. The either look ugly, or have the worst LCD panels you've ever seen. A software update isn't going to change anything like that[/QUOTE]
Wow, Dr. Egg, you really missed alot of what I said. I sadi people don't fucking know about WP7 at all. And the Samsung Omnia 7 (which is the only available phone here in Denmark) is fucking gorgous compared to alot of android phones. And yes, people care about software too, and Symbian^3 works for the most part pretty well, and is reasonably fluid when you work around with it in person. Nokia isn't moving against the low end of the market, they have the best camera on phone available and pretty damn fucking nice hardware. People don't buy Nokia because it's cheap (they aren't, at all), they buy it because they know that it's quality, and won't break just because you drop it on the floor once or twice.
If you look at the statistics about Ovi store I posted earlier, 1000 new apps are supposedly added each week, so it's not totally dead.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30350093]Wow, Dr. Egg, you really missed alot of what I said. I sadi people don't fucking know about WP7 at all.[/quote]
And I am disagreeing with you. There have been colossal advertising campaigns for WP7 here, and yet I have seen one WP7 out in public. And even that was just last week.
[quote]And the Samsung Omnia 7 (which is the only available phone here in Denmark) is fucking gorgous compared to alot of android phones.[/quote]
It certainly is the nicest of the bunch, but then you couldn't update it for the longest time, so that is another serious flaw.
[quote]And yes, people care about software too, and Symbian^3 works for the most part pretty well, and is reasonably fluid when you work around with it in person. Nokia isn't moving against the low end of the market, they have the best camera on phone available and pretty damn fucking nice hardware. People don't buy Nokia because it's cheap (they aren't, at all), they buy it because they know that it's quality, and won't break just because you drop it on the floor once or twice.[/quote]
Exactly. They are buying it not because of Symbian, but for completely other reasons. And i never said Nokia was moving "against" the low end market. I said Symbian was moving to be the OS for the low end of the market.
[quote]If you look at the statistics about Ovi store I posted earlier, 1000 new apps are supposedly added each week, so it's not totally dead.[/QUOTE]
But it is dying and close to dead.
[QUOTE=Dr Egg;30353906]And I am disagreeing with you. There have been colossal advertising campaigns for WP7 here, and yet I have seen one WP7 out in public. And even that was just last week.
It certainly is the nicest of the bunch, but then you couldn't update it for the longest time, so that is another serious flaw.
Exactly. They are buying it not because of Symbian, but for completely other reasons. And i never said Nokia was moving "against" the low end market. I said Symbian was moving to be the OS for the low end of the market.
But it is dying and close to dead.[/QUOTE]
There haven't been any Wp7 advertisements here in Denmark, and I've seen a bunch. I guess you must have been moving around the wrong places. Ovi store is dying, yes, but it's gonna be a slow death. Nokia is moving out Symbian so of course it's dying, but it's still growing nonetheless, because there is a lot of people using Symbian out there.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;30354115]There haven't been any Wp7 advertisements here in Denmark, and I've seen a bunch. I guess you must have been moving around the wrong places. [/quote]
I doing Honours on top of my degree in Computer Science at one of the biggest universities in Scotland. I mix with an awful lot of geeks; 90% of my class has a smartphone. Long story short I would say I am in the exact right place to see the latest smartphone since everyone loves to be on the bleeding edge of technology. And the one time I saw a WP7 device was at my workplace. That and at least two industry execs has come out and said WP7 has not sold as well as they had hoped. Those two facts combined with how even Microsoft, who love to shout about every success they have, have only mentioned shipment figures once. And as I said there has been a huge advertising campaign here. I appreciate that has not occurred in your country, but it has in others, and as a platform it still isn't selling.
[quote]Ovi store is dying, yes, but it's gonna be a slow death. Nokia is moving out Symbian so of course it's dying, but it's still growing nonetheless, because there is a lot of people using Symbian out there.[/QUOTE]
But as a platform it is dead. It might be growing overall, but to people and devs looking for a new platform to go to, you would never recommend Symbian because everyone has lost faith in it. PS2 games are still being made, but as a platform it is dead. Same principle with Symbian.
[QUOTE=Dr Egg;30357724]I doing Honours on top of my degree in Computer Science at one of the biggest universities in Scotland. I mix with an awful lot of geeks; 90% of my class has a smartphone. Long story short I would say I am in the exact right place to see the latest smartphone since everyone loves to be on the bleeding edge of technology. And the one time I saw a WP7 device was at my workplace. That and at least two industry execs has come out and said WP7 has not sold as well as they had hoped. Those two facts combined with how even Microsoft, who love to shout about every success they have, have only mentioned shipment figures once. And as I said there has been a huge advertising campaign here. I appreciate that has not occurred in your country, but it has in others, and as a platform it still isn't selling.
But as a platform it is dead. It might be growing overall, but to people and devs looking for a new platform to go to, you would never recommend Symbian because everyone has lost faith in it. PS2 games are still being made, but as a platform it is dead. Same principle with Symbian.[/QUOTE]
Good luck with your studying first of all. Kinda weird that I've seen more devices than you have, but oh well. My point is, in many countries you still can't access the marketplace, and there's no advertisements for the platform, so it's neither a very appealing platform, nor one people have heard of. Taht's going to change with Mango, and it is why Mango is the first version Nokia can use, as WP7 isn't a "global" platform as of now. Nokia needs to target a very, very broad market, and so WP7 is useless for them right now, and thus Symbian is not dying before Nokia starts up it's WP7 campaign for real.
So I take it, it would be best to wait a month or 2 before getting a new MBP because of lion?
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