General Linux Chat and Small Questions v. Install Arch
4,946 replies, posted
[QUOTE=lavacano;39642423]Why? Because people who use the GNU definition come off as obnoxious and pretentious. No, god damn it, I'm not being oppressed because the program I'm using didn't put its source code up for public perusal, the only person trying to oppress me is you for trying to force me to use certain software, now stop pushing cult bullshit and get the hell away from me.[/QUOTE]
You clearly do not understand how proprietary software can exert control over you. It makes your argument pretty weak.
Either way, it's not the "GNU" definition of free, it's one of the two [B]English[/B] definition of free, and people tend to use English on this forum.
[QUOTE=gparent;39643920]You clearly do not understand how proprietary software can exert control over you. It makes your argument pretty weak.
Either way, it's not the "GNU" definition of free, it's one of the two [B]English[/B] definition of free, and I people tend to use English on this forum.[/QUOTE]
To me [I]free[/I] is used like in [I]free beer[/I], something you don't have to pay for...
[QUOTE=Killervalon;39645346]To me [I]free[/I] is used like in [I]free beer[/I], something you don't have to pay for...[/QUOTE]
I think 'gratis' is the word you're really looking for there.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;39638736]sudo apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
I don't see why it wouldn't work[/QUOTE]
I'll try it in the next few days, I did something a little different so maybe this one will work.
Could anyone recomend a linux distro for me. I am new to linux and i dont know if Ubunte is the best for me. I want to be able to play around with the system and i want to dual boot on my laptop and later on my main computer. Thanks in advance and i dident want to make a thread for a quick tips like this.
[QUOTE=esalaka;39642563]How's GNU trying to force you to use certain software, though[/QUOTE]
It's not GNU themselves that are doing it (thank fuck), but it's pretty much everyone that believes in their shit.
[QUOTE=gparent;39643920]You clearly do not understand how proprietary software can exert control over you. It makes your argument pretty weak.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly the kind of bullshit that I'm talking about. No, it's [b]not[/b] controlling me. That's like saying the hammers I bought from the hardware store are somehow controlling me because the manufacturers won't tell me about the trees that they made the handles from.
[quote]Either way, it's not the "GNU" definition of free, it's one of the two English definition of free, and I people tend to use English on this forum.[/quote]
You think I don't know that? Yes, in English "free" can mean liberated. That definition does not apply to software though.
Guys, does anyone know a nice dark theme for GTK3 (Gnome Classic)? Thanks.
[QUOTE=Ol' Pie;39646512]Guys, does anyone know a nice dark theme for GTK3 (Gnome Classic)? Thanks.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://killhellokitty.deviantart.com/art/DeLorean-Dark-Theme-3-6-vs-2-56-328859335]Delorean Dark[/url]
[QUOTE=scroul;39645801]Could anyone recomend a linux distro for me. I am new to linux and i dont know if Ubunte is the best for me. I want to be able to play around with the system and i want to dual boot on my laptop and later on my main computer. Thanks in advance and i dident want to make a thread for a quick tips like this.[/QUOTE]
OpenSUSE is a great place to start.
[QUOTE=Lyoko774;39647051][url=http://killhellokitty.deviantart.com/art/DeLorean-Dark-Theme-3-6-vs-2-56-328859335]Delorean Dark[/url][/QUOTE]
Thanks, fits perfectly with my wallpaper and such.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39645957]That definition does not apply to software though.[/QUOTE]
Sounds rather arbitrary.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39645957]This is exactly the kind of bullshit that I'm talking about.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should chill out, it helps clear your mind and see things differently.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39645957]No, it's [B]not[/B] controlling me.[/QUOTE]
"Controlling you" doesn't mean the software literally jumps out of the screen to grab your hands and do things for you. It can be more subtle than that. You can't seem to grasp the concept of control on a more abstract level. I'd love to explain it to you better, but I don't think I'm the best person for this.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39645957][B]That's like saying[/B] the hammers I bought from the hardware store are somehow controlling me because the manufacturers won't tell me about the trees that they made the handles from.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not like that at all. Your comparison is downright dumb. Knowing how the hammer is made would be an advantage of a open source hammer, you wouldn't need "hammer freedom" to get that advantage.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39645957]You think I don't know that?[/QUOTE]
Considering you called it "The GNU definition of free", yes.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39645957]Yes, in English "free" can mean liberated. [B]That definition does not apply to software though.[/B][/QUOTE]
In your head, maybe. I think you'll find that the majority of the world disagrees.
[QUOTE=gparent;39647862]Maybe you should chill out, it helps clear your mind and see things differently.[/quote]
Why do people insist on saying shit like "clear your mind" when trying to convert me? All that does to me is confirm it's cult shit.
[quote]"Controlling you" doesn't mean the software literally jumps out of the screen to grab your hands and do things for you. It can be more subtle than that. You can't seem to grasp the concept of control on a more abstract level. I'd love to explain it to you better, but I don't think I'm the best person for this.[/quote]
Y'know, you don't have to hint at shit, if you think I'm mentally retarded just come out and say it.
[quote]No, it's not like that at all. Your comparison is downright dumb. Knowing how the hammer is made would be an advantage of a open source hammer, you wouldn't need "hammer freedom" to get that advantage.[/quote]
Well then explain it because apparently nobody can fucking explain it properly.
[quote]Considering you called it "The GNU definition of free", yes.[/quote]
I speak in order to get my point across. You understood what I meant, I don't give two shits about petty details like who invented what definition where.
[quote]In your head, maybe. I think you'll find that the majority of the world disagrees.[/QUOTE]
Where the hell do you get this shit? I'm pretty sure the majority of the world does NOT disagree with me. If anything the majority of the world is apathetic.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39642423]I refuse to use the GNU definition of free in any sense other than reference. (so proprietary drivers vs open source ones in this case)[/QUOTE]
But open source drivers might not give you freedom to share them or modify them, thus they're nonfree.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39642423]people who use the GNU definition come off as obnoxious and pretentious.[/QUOTE]
I dunno man, you're managing that quite well without using the definition.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39642423]No, god damn it, I'm not being oppressed because the program I'm using didn't put its source code up for public perusal, the only person trying to oppress me is you for trying to force me to use certain software, now stop pushing cult bullshit and get the hell away from me.[/QUOTE]
This may sound weird, but have you actually read the free software guidelines? It barely has anything to do with being open source. That and nobody's trying to force you to use software, we're just dividing them up based on their licensing.
I don't understand why you think it's a cult. It could be a religion I guess, seeing as almost every company participates in it.
The concept revolves around your freedom to be independent in your use of the software. When there is a problem with you software, you should have the ability, if you have the capacity, to make your own modifications and/or collaborate with others to modify the tools to fit your needs.
Let's try this with the hammer analogy: when you buy a hammer, you get a physical tool which is designed to drive fasteners into wood and the like. If, lets say for the sake of argument, the hammer lacks a claw (the part that rips nails out of wood), and your work should necessitate removing already driven nails, you have the option, should you have the tools, to modify your hammer to equip it for the task.
In terms of software which you don't have the modifiable (within reason) representation of (i.e. source code) you are powerless to make the modification without either being dependent (i.e. less free) upon the original developer or breaking the law (in many cases).
No software can [I]force[/I] you to do anything, but when you become dependent upon software you are not legally in control of in any way shape or form, you are in fact sacrificing a bit of freedom. There is no rule stating you can't [I]freely[/I] buy your way into a pseudo-slavery, and while this might be hyperbole it is nevertheless my interpretation of what "free" means in terms of software; take it or leave it.
I like how we went from talking about A Penguin in TF2 to defining where and when the limit between driver freedom is set :S
Does anyone know of any guides on how to setup a linux deployment server?
[QUOTE=Strikebango;39648917]Does anyone know of any guides on how to setup a linux deployment server?[/QUOTE]
It depends on which distro you're using but should be possible with program called "FOG".
[URL]http://fogproject.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page[/URL]
[QUOTE=gparent;39647862]"Controlling you" doesn't mean the software literally jumps out of the screen to grab your hands and do things for you. It can be more subtle than that. You can't seem to grasp the concept of control on a more abstract level. I'd love to explain it to you better, but I don't think I'm the best person for this.[/QUOTE]
I think vendor lock-in qualifies. A prime example of this is Microsoft Office: They kind of inherited their market leadership from earlier software (and hell, Excel might still be able to import from 1-2-3. I don't have a copy at hand so I can't check.) but after Office got widely popular, nobody wanted to move away from it. Companies and governments and pretty much everything nowadays feel like they have to use Microsoft Office because if they moved away from Microsoft's products they fear they would lose compatibility with other branches of their company, other companies, older files... Whatever.
Essentially, the software vendor can tell the customers what they need to buy. If a software licence expires, the customer is very compelled to pay Microsoft for another one. This might also have to be a new product that brings new features that then are not backwards-compatible, further necessitating the use of the software's newest version.
If a company can just tell every other damn company in the world that they need a new version of their word processor, I'd call that control.
The definition of free the FSF uses tries to make sure that people can't be forced to do things like this. The only ones it really restricts, as I mentioned, are developers, who aren't allowed to use the source code or parts of it for non-GPL programs.
They're completely okay with paying for software and they're completely okay with you not wanting to ever see its source code, but they want that in the event that you [I]need[/I] to do that for some reason, you're given the possibility.
Put another way, the FSF would be best pals with Microsoft if they gave every paying customer the chance to redistribute the programs and see their source code. (And the first part, amusingly enough, happens anyway, regardless of licences.)
[QUOTE=Strikebango;39648917]Does anyone know of any guides on how to setup a linux deployment server?[/QUOTE]
That depends on what you want to deploy.
I'm not a GNU evangelist but I do like the GPL - partially because it means all the forks of my software would still be GPL'd. I'm extrapolating that this correlates with a higher chance of people contributing instead of forking - after all, your software would be subject to the same limitations regardless as long as it was based on mine - and since it's my software, I'm allowed to re-license parts of it for others that ask nicely. If I feel like it. It gives me a surprising amount of control over the software and lets the users do whatever the hell they wish.
Also, just to mention: The FSF is not strictly GPL. In fact, they state it is beneficial to use the LGPL when there are non-free alternatives to your library because any modifications to LGPL software have to be under the LGPL (or the GPL!) and in some cases such as small programs or implementing open standards advocate the use of a non-copyleft licence (Specifically, the Apache Licence 2.0) because the release of software without a "copyleft" licence like the GPL in these cases is more beneficial to the free software community (as well as users) because it encourages more widespread use.
[editline]20th February 2013[/editline]
well that certainly took too long to write
[QUOTE=lavacano;39648406]Why do people insist on saying shit like "clear your mind" when trying to convert me? All that does to me is confirm it's cult shit.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit it's just an expression. I was saying that because you're getting riled up as if a bunch of GNUtard neckbeards murdered your baby sister.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39648406]Y'know, you don't have to hint at shit, if you think I'm mentally retarded just come out and say it.[/QUOTE]
I'm not hinting at anything, I just don't understand how you don't get that freedom isn't merely being literally forced to do things or not.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39648406]I speak in order to get my point across. You understood what I meant, I don't give two shits about petty details like who invented what definition where.[/QUOTE]
Of course I knew what you meant, my only point was that it's not the GNU definition of free, it's the English dictionary's definition of free, so there's no need to make a special case. People usually refer to $0 software as freeware.
[QUOTE=lavacano;39648406]Where the hell do you get this shit? I'm pretty sure the majority of the world does NOT disagree with me. If anything the majority of the world is apathetic.[/QUOTE]
Now you're the one taking things literally. The majority, unlike you, understand the concept of software freedom if they know what it is. They don't deny it exists.
Damn, the Ubuntu tablet looks really, really good.
I hope they don't fuck it up, they might finally make a tablet that I would consider using.
[QUOTE=nikomo;39650679]Damn, the Ubuntu tablet looks really, really good.
I hope they don't fuck it up, they might finally make a tablet that I would consider using.[/QUOTE]
You search for a contact and end up with 3 magazines and 40 pairs of trousers from amazon.
[QUOTE=leontodd;39650831]You search for a contact and end up with 3 magazines and 40 pairs of trousers from amazon.[/QUOTE]
because you totally can't just
you know
turn off the online search
[QUOTE=Lyoko774;39650841]because you totally can't just
you know
turn off the online search[/QUOTE]
It still shouldn't be on be default.
[QUOTE=IpHa;39650876]It still shouldn't be on be default.[/QUOTE]
are you one of those people who got all up in arms when google changed their privacy policy?
[QUOTE=Lyoko774;39651723]are you one of those people who got all up in arms when google changed their privacy policy?[/QUOTE]
I'm searching locally. I should not need to sift through a bunch of online ads to search locally. That shit needs to be opt-in if you're going to make it at all.
And yes I know it's pretty much opt-out already, but that's not good enough.
So I learned the hard lesson over the last six or seven hours about being careful with managing partitions.
I'd installed Ubuntu on a small laptop I have, just to try it, and seeing as I was really only going to be programming and surfing the internet and maybe playing a few Steam games on it, I wanted to increase the partition size for Ubuntu.
Hahahahahahhahahahaha
Broke Windows, spent a long long time trying to reboot from the USB stick I'd installed from, ended up using the boot fixer tool successfully by toggling options until it worked, then using a utility to massage my main Windows partition back to fill the entire hard drive, THEN installing Linux on a created partition inside of that.
So, do it right the first time, you fool.
Windows flat out does not like suddenly having less space than it did before.
People claim it's been getting better in that regard but my experience tells me that's not the case.
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