It is actually extremely easy. There are dozens of good tutorial videos on YouTube, and it takes at most about 2 hours.
It's actually easier than putting a lego set together because anything will only fit in one or two valid places. Just don't force anything and it will be fine.
Just make sure you don't sawing on stuff if it doesn't fit
[img]http://imgur.com/sy7IkUA.jpg[/img]
:downs:
Nothing wrong with a prebuilt if you aren't confident in building your own.
As long as you get one from a reputable company the warranty is sometimes worth it.
[QUOTE=Mpizou;45279781]1 I don't know...i wanted imac because i want to play without lag but now u told me that its a bad option so im searching for a pc
2What do you mean?
3my desk is big enough
[editline]3rd July 2014[/editline]
thanks but i don't have any idea on how to build a computer[/QUOTE]
now you do
[video=youtube;qMRvz_IYSgM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMRvz_IYSgM&list=PL8mG-RkN2uTwlcLU_rv29Gt4578XfgJm_&index=10[/video]
ok thanks guys
Just bare in mind that the new iMac is pretty much un-upgradeable, so what you get is what you are stuck with. Even more so on the 21.5" version as they don't have the rear panel to upgrade the RAM easily. They also have terrible screen glare, keyboards / mice are also not very durable (poor strain relief on the cables).
PC is just generally a better option, far more modular and upgradeable in the future.
Experience: I manage 250 iMac's, 70 Macbooks and 40 Mac Mini's in an educational establishment.
While an iMac isn't the best choice, it's far from the worst. Excellent screen and form factor, solid construction. As far the price on Apple hardware goes, it's actually not [I]too[/I] bad because you can sell it several years later for [I]way[/I] more than a regular PC. Apple products hold their value very well.
But a windows PC is stil probably better suited for OP.
[QUOTE=Warship;45298426]While an iMac isn't the best choice, it's far from the worst. Excellent screen and form factor, solid construction.[/QUOTE]
A good screen does not make up for the fact the entire thing is completely proprietary, non-upgradeable and the video hardware does not have the power to drive the display in games at any respectable resolution. You aren't going to be gaming on an Intel IGP at the screen native resolution (1080p), and it makes absolutely no sense to spend $400 more for the ridiculously marked up GT 750M in the thing.
You still aren't going to get any performance out of it, and with the $400 you wasted on shitty hardware, you could have gotten a high end GTX 770 or R9 290 in a far better PC rig.
[QUOTE=Warship;45298426]As far the price on Apple hardware goes, it's actually not [I]too[/I] bad because you can sell it several years later for [I]way[/I] more than a regular PC. Apple products hold their value very well.[/QUOTE]
Uh, no.
All Apple desktop computers (towers, laptops, imacs, and the like) have never held their value as they aged. Unlike PCs where you could go 5-10 years without upgrading and still have a useful machine, the same is not the case for Apple. Apple has a policy of forced obsolescence and no machine has ever had a supported life of more than just a few years. Once an Apple machine is obsoleted, it's only a matter of time before stuff stops being released that targets it as a platform. After this happens, it's a quick downhill slope of newer things starting to work more slowly on the machine or not working at all because the community has moved on to the next best model.
In many cases in the past, Apple has sold lemons on the market and quickly abandoned them, leaving their owners up shit creek with a bad product as they moved on to the next best model.
Are you kidding? I do tons of product reselling and Apple products in general hold their value way better than any other brand. Also, Apple still gives software updates to Macs from 2008 for free so I have no idea what the hell you're talking about with the supported life being no more than a few years. I don't think you know anything about Apple computers.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;45299738]A good screen does not make up for the fact the entire thing is completely proprietary, non-upgradeable and the video hardware does not have the power to drive the display in games at any respectable resolution. You aren't going to be gaming on an Intel IGP at the screen native resolution (1080p), and it makes absolutely no sense to spend $400 more for the ridiculously marked up GT 750M in the thing.
You still aren't going to get any performance out of it, and with the $400 you wasted on shitty hardware, you could have gotten a high end GTX 770 or R9 290 in a far better PC rig.
Uh, no.
All Apple desktop computers (towers, laptops, imacs, and the like) have never held their value as they aged. Unlike PCs where you could go 5-10 years without upgrading and still have a useful machine, the same is not the case for Apple. Apple has a policy of forced obsolescence and no machine has ever had a supported life of more than just a few years. Once an Apple machine is obsoleted, it's only a matter of time before stuff stops being released that targets it as a platform. After this happens, it's a quick downhill slope of newer things starting to work more slowly on the machine or not working at all because the community has moved on to the next best model.
In many cases in the past, Apple has sold lemons on the market and quickly abandoned them, leaving their owners up shit creek with a bad product as they moved on to the next best model.[/QUOTE]
do you even know what apple is
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;45299738]
Uh, no.
All Apple desktop computers (towers, laptops, imacs, and the like) have never held their value as they aged. Unlike PCs where you could go 5-10 years without upgrading and still have a useful machine, the same is not the case for Apple. Apple has a policy of forced obsolescence and no machine has ever had a supported life of more than just a few years. Once an Apple machine is obsoleted, it's only a matter of time before stuff stops being released that targets it as a platform. After this happens, it's a quick downhill slope of newer things starting to work more slowly on the machine or not working at all because the community has moved on to the next best model.
In many cases in the past, Apple has sold lemons on the market and quickly abandoned them, leaving their owners up shit creek with a bad product as they moved on to the next best model.[/QUOTE]
If you don't know shit about the subject, don't say anything.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;45299738]All Apple desktop computers (towers, laptops, imacs, and the like) have never held their value as they aged. Unlike PCs where you could go 5-10 years without upgrading and still have a useful machine, the same is not the case for Apple. Apple has a policy of forced obsolescence and no machine has ever had a supported life of more than just a few years. Once an Apple machine is obsoleted, it's only a matter of time before stuff stops being released that targets it as a platform. After this happens, it's a quick downhill slope of newer things starting to work more slowly on the machine or not working at all because the community has moved on to the next best model.
In many cases in the past, Apple has sold lemons on the market and quickly abandoned them, leaving their owners up shit creek with a bad product as they moved on to the next best model.[/QUOTE]
You have never sold an Apple device.
I've never even owned one, and I still know how well they keep their resale value, I've known a few people that would sell their old iMac and grab another one for only 100-200 extra €, and they've kept to being either on the newest model, or close to it, through that.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45299753]I don't think you know anything about Apple computers.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you know anything about the history of Apple products.
Here's a history lesson of some "Road Apples" (ie. purposefully crippled machines that weren't readily advertised to the consumer.)
[url]http://www.lowendmac.com/roadapples/[/url]
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;45300108]If you don't know shit about the subject, don't say anything.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=nikomo;45300153]You have never sold an Apple device.
I've never even owned one, and I still know how well they keep their resale value, I've known a few people that would sell their old iMac and grab another one for only 100-200 extra €, and they've kept to being either on the newest model, or close to it, through that.[/QUOTE]
You may want to refrain from ignorant comments else you may make yourself look stupid, not that I'm calling you stupid or anything.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/FJKAwmB.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/soF1cif.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/Tph2djI.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/uoUYRGC.jpg[/t]
I've also bought and sold other apple devices more recent so I know what I'm talking about.
But it's readily obvious all four of you are nerdraging fanboys of Apple when you make superfluous claims about someone Else's knowledge on the subject that "that they show shit about Apple", plus the fact that one of you is spamming my website with "YOU GOT OWNED" further proves my point.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7z6bi5h.png[/img]
Cute.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Learn to debate without name calling/freaking out please" - postal))[/highlight]
We're still waiting on a citation of Apple dropping support on macs after a few years, and a citation of Apple's computer resale values vs that of other companies since you stated they don't hold value unlike PCs. You haven't supported what you said at all. A bunch of pictures of some macs you own from the distant past does not make you an expert on buying an Apple computer today, cite what you wrote.
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
[quote]But it's readily obvious all four of you are nerdraging fanboys of Apple[/quote]
I DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A REAL ARGUMENT BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL FANBOYS!
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
Also please explain to me how Apple's computers from the 80s and 90s are at all relevant to someone making a purchase today. Apple's products today keep their resale value better than their competitors and Apple does not drop support after only a few years. Look at the list of support for OS X Yosemite.
iMac (Mid 2007 or Newer)
MacBook (13-inch Aluminum, Late 2008), (13-inch, Early 2009 or later)
MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid-2009 or later), (15-inch, Mid/Late 2007 or later), (17-inch, Late 2007 or later)
MacBook Air (Late 2008 or later)
Mac Mini (Early 2009 or later)
Mac Pro (Early 2008 or later)
At WORST, you have 5 years of support there which is in the timeframe you specified for PCs. A lot of these hit a wall because of when the product was introduced after Apple's transition from PowerPC to x86. I'm sorry, but you're just wrong and it's demonstrable right here. Crying that people are fanboys doesn't change that.
i know LOTS about apple computers *posts photos of super old macs*
lol
Gigabite, you seem to have a really insecure life.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Don't post just to be rude please" - postal))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45300630]and a citation of Apple's computer resale values vs that of other companies since you stated they don't hold value unlike PCs.[/QUOTE]
Here's a quick chart of the Mac Pro (first is MSRP at launch, second is current and percentage drop):
Mac Pro (2012)
2499 - 2100 (-15.96%)
Mac Pro (2010)
2899 - 2000 (-31.01%)
Mac Pro (2009)
2499 - 1400 (-43.97%)
Mac Pro (2008)
2299 - 1200 (-47.80%)
Mac Pro (2006)
2499 - 600 (-75.99%)
I wouldn't really call that "holding value". That's about what you can expect in the PC world.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45300630]I DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A REAL ARGUMENT BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL FANBOYS![/QUOTE]
It's true is it not? Initially four people including yourself go into immediate troll and shit flinging mode because Apple was insulted.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45300630]Also please explain to me how Apple's computers from the 80s and 90s are at all relevant to someone making a purchase today.[/QUOTE]
You clearly don't know about Apple products if you think any of my machines are from the 1980s. And they're plenty relevant because some of them are compromised designs, a trend which Apple still does today.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45300630]Apple does not drop support after only a few years. Look at the list of support for OS X Yosemite.
iMac (Mid 2007 or Newer)
MacBook (13-inch Aluminum, Late 2008), (13-inch, Early 2009 or later)
MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid-2009 or later), (15-inch, Mid/Late 2007 or later), (17-inch, Late 2007 or later)
MacBook Air (Late 2008 or later)
Mac Mini (Early 2009 or later)
Mac Pro (Early 2008 or later)
At WORST, you have 5 years of support there which is in the timeframe you specified for PCs. A lot of these hit a wall because of when the product was introduced after Apple's transition from PowerPC to x86. I'm sorry, but you're just wrong and it's demonstrable right here. Crying that people are fanboys doesn't change that.[/QUOTE]
If you read the specs for 10.10, you'd know that not all configurations of the machines you listed are supported by default. And just because the machines are "supported" doesn't mean they are "usable". As always with Apple, they march forward in more demanding features quickly. So even if 10.10 will run on an old Mac, it does not guarantee it will work well enough to be usable.
An example would be the Mac Mini. You can't run 10.10 on it without first upgrading the RAM to over 2 GB (since 10.10 requires 2 GB and the GPU robs system memory.) The Macbook Air won't run it properly either because of non-upgradeable RAM which is robbed by the GPU also. So at best it would be slow and at worst, it wouldn't work.
[QUOTE=.Lain;45300874]i know LOTS about apple computers *posts photos of super old macs*
lol[/QUOTE]
I do know "lots" about Apple computers, the age of the machines was never a question. You're grasping at straws pretty hard.
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;45301643]Gigabite, you seem to have a really insecure life.[/QUOTE]
You're adorable, but you're failing at failing.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;45306288]
You're adorable, but you're failing at failing.[/QUOTE]
So he's succeeding?
OMG What's going on here?
[QUOTE=Mpizou;45307747]OMG What's going on here?[/QUOTE]
Oh just an ordinary argument. So have you made your choice between the iMac and building your own desktop/buying prebuilt yet? I still reckon you'd get more out of a PC you built yourself than the iMac.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;45306288]bla bla[/QUOTE]
lol you are so arrogant
[editline]6th July 2014[/editline]
(not to mention wrong) if you legitimately think macbooks and imacs hold value the same way as any other desktop you're absolutely deluded
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;45306288]stuff[/quote]
Do you even know what you're talking about?
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;45306288]Long post[/QUOTE]
1. You chose the Mac Pro which has never been a consumer machine and thus has a smaller market of reselling which leads to less buyer competition and lower prices to be able to sell it off to someone. This is also not a citation because nobody knows where these values came from. Fallacious cherrypicking argument.
2. Calling people trolls is not an argument. I never threw out any personal attacks and all I did was insist that you post some real citations for what you were saying, which you are still yet to actually do properly. Nobody was trolling you, except whomever sent you that email and I have no idea who did that. They could have been anyone even just viewing this thread, and the fact that they got you riled up means you're just giving them what they wanted so you should stop getting upset.
3. I never said any of your pictured machines were from the 80s. My tech industry experience is a lot wider reaching than yours buddy, I know the Macs you put in your pictures. My point was, what relevance at all do ANY old Macs have to the ones today?
4. Windows won't necessarily run well on an old PC either. This is a side effect of software outpacing hardware, it is not intrinsic to Apple. This means it is not a valid argument against Apple so you still have presented exactly zero of those so far.
You're also wrong about cases like the Macbook Air and Mac Mini. The GPU allocates itself a minimal amount of memory and Apple's compressed memory does more than enough to account for that. You can install OS X on them without upgrading the standard 2GB of memory. In most situations you only need approximately 128MB of RAM to manage frames in the frame buffer and do rendering on an iGPU unless you're doing something like HiDPI display output which doesn't apply to any of those old Mac computers.
[url]http://pastebin.com/eWSvjRz1[/url]
That's the list of all Macs that can run Yosemite and there are multiple 2GB models on it. Any Mac that runs 10.8 or 10.9 runs 10.10.
5. Maybe you do, in the 90s. You don't know much about modem Apple computers, this is pretty well demonstrated in this thread. To be honest, your posts are embarrassing and this isn't the first time you've spoken out of ignorance and then had a freakout, you did it with nuclear energy too and you got wrecked harder than I could ever do to you here.
6. Like Warship said, I guess that means he's winning, so in turn that means you're losing. At least you're honest.
[QUOTE=digigamer17;45307765]Oh just an ordinary argument. So have you made your choice between the iMac and building your own desktop/buying prebuilt yet? I still reckon you'd get more out of a PC you built yourself than the iMac.[/QUOTE]
I think I'm going to build my own desktop
[QUOTE=Mpizou;45315166]I think I'm going to build my own desktop[/QUOTE]
Nice. Just be careful, and don't panic if something doesn't work right off the bat. And make sure that all the parts are compatible before ordering.
[QUOTE=Warship;45315828]Nice. Just be careful, and don't panic if something doesn't work right off the bat. And make sure that all the parts are compatible before ordering.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the advise :)
[QUOTE=Warship;45306898]So he's succeeding?[/QUOTE]
Nope.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45308766]1. You chose the Mac Pro which has never been a consumer machine and thus has a smaller market of reselling which leads to less buyer competition and lower prices to be able to sell it off to someone. This is also not a citation because nobody knows where these values came from. Fallacious cherrypicking argument.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45299753][B]I do tons of product reselling and Apple products in general hold their value way better than any other brand.[/B][/QUOTE]
You generalized that [I]all[/I] Apple products hold their value than any other brand and now you're trying to nitpick that my chart is invalid now that I picked a specific model to compare? lol.
I chose the mac pro because it's the first one I found searching for prices.
Pricing from [url]www.everymac.com[/url]
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45308766]2. Calling people trolls is not an argument. I never threw out any personal attacks and all I did was insist that you post some real citations for what you were saying, which you are still yet to actually do properly. Nobody was trolling you, except whomever sent you that email and I have no idea who did that. They could have been anyone even just viewing this thread, and the fact that they got you riled up means you're just giving them what they wanted so you should stop getting upset.[/QUOTE]
I insist you come up with some real citations too. You've done nothing but say that I'm wrong and I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about by solely basing it on your opinions and not on established facts. And who said I was upset? I just find it amusing that people get so up an arms when Apple is insulted.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45308766]3. I never said any of your pictured machines were from the 80s. My tech industry experience is a lot wider reaching than yours buddy, I know the Macs you put in your pictures. My point was, what relevance at all do ANY old Macs have to the ones today?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45300630][B]Also please explain to me how Apple's computers from the 80s and 90s are at all relevant to someone making a purchase today.[/B][/quote]
Apparently you can't remember what you typed just a few posts ago? And finally the pompusness comes out "My tech industry experience is a lot wider reaching than yours buddy" Really? haha. And I like how you edited that post after I said that to remove the "80s and 90s" and replace it with "the distant past". You do know there's something called post history right? You're not being very consistent with your posts.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45308766]4. Windows won't necessarily run well on an old PC either. This is a side effect of software outpacing hardware, it is not intrinsic to Apple. This means it is not a valid argument against Apple so you still have presented exactly zero of those so far.[/quote]
Except Windows [I]can[/I] run on an old PC reasonably well. Windows 7 will run just fine on a Pentium 3 1400 with 2-4 GB of RAM and be able to function as a general internet browsing machine. Sure you may not be able to use some features like Aero, but it will still work. The Pentium 3 is a 15+ year old processor too.
You can't do the same thing with Apple. OS X 10.10 will not run on a G3 from 1999. Due to Apple's proprietary and often non-upgradeable hardware, their products become obsolete far more quickly because they lack the capacity to be upgraded to increase their lifespan.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45308766]You're also wrong about cases like the Macbook Air and Mac Mini. The GPU allocates itself a minimal amount of memory and Apple's compressed memory does more than enough to account for that. You can install OS X on them without upgrading the standard 2GB of memory. In most situations you only need approximately 128MB of RAM to manage frames in the frame buffer and do rendering on an iGPU unless you're doing something like HiDPI display output which doesn't apply to any of those old Mac computers.
[url]http://pastebin.com/eWSvjRz1[/url][/quote]
The IGP on some of those Macs allocates up to 256-512M, which brings you down to a minimum of 1.5 GB.
And memory compression isn't a fix-all for low amounts of system memory. Only memory not currently in use for x amount of time is compressed, not all application heaps are compressible (which may result in a larger compressed data set if using the wrong compression algorithm) and it doesn't help applications that are currently running. If you have an application that requires a large amount of memory, manages memory incorrectly or has bad memory leaks then it's not going to help at all. There's also a tradeoff of performance for memory compression. Compressing memory requires processing time, which can cause slowdowns on machines with weaker processors.
[url]http://macs.about.com/od/macoperatingsystems/fl/Understanding-Compressed-Memory-in-OS-X.htm[/url]
Memory compression on Macs is nothing new, RAM Doubler for System 7-9 did more or less the same thing and had some of the same drawbacks.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45308766]5. Maybe you do, in the 90s. You don't know much about modem Apple computers, this is pretty well demonstrated in this thread. To be honest, your posts are embarrassing and this isn't the first time you've spoken out of ignorance and then had a freakout, you did it with nuclear energy too and you got wrecked harder than I could ever do to you here.[/quote]
All that's being demonstrated in this thread is a bunch of people saying I have no idea what I'm talking about (including you), trolling and not providing any evidence to the contrary. All you've done is have a pompous attitude that you're better than me (that you readily admitted above) and linked to a wikipedia page showing specs for an OS and some pastebin that anyone could have written.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45308766]6. Like Warship said, I guess that means he's winning, so in turn that means you're losing. At least you're honest.[/QUOTE]
Actually you're winning at contradicting yourself continually and not providing any good evidence to my lack of knowledge on anything.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;45322780]
Apparently you can't remember what you typed just a few posts ago? And finally the pompusness comes out "My tech industry experience is a lot wider reaching than yours buddy" Really? haha. And I like how you edited that post after I said that to remove the "80s and 90s" and replace it with "the distant past". You do know there's something called post history right? You're not being very consistent with your posts.
[/QUOTE]
I didn't edit it at all lol. The only edit comes from a post merge which is indicated by the edit line and serves to show I didn't alter anything above it.
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1405869&p=45300630&viewfull=1#post45300630[/url]
It's literally above you on this page unedited. It still says 80s and 90s in a context not at all referring to the photos you took. You responded to my post way after I had put it up, if I had edited it it would say that I had done so in the top part of the post header.
[quote]You can't do the same thing with Apple. OS X 10.10 will not run on a G3 from 1999.[/quote]
No. If you had actually read my post (or again, if you actually knew what the hell you were talking about) you would know that has to do with the switch from powerPC to x86. Notice how I pointed out that most of the dates for upgradable machines hits a wall right near when that transition happened? PowerPC is not Apple proprietary hardware, it's an architecture solely owned, maintained, and developed by IBM. That's why 10.10 can't run on a G3, they don't even use the same instruction set.
[editline]8th July 2014[/editline]
Oh and it needs to be put on record that you're conflating Apple's official support with what software is supported which is incorrect to do. If you took the 2006 C2D based iMacs you could load 10.10 on them, it's just not officially supported by Apple.
I actually don't have any more time to spend on this. At the point you started jumping at post edits that didn't happen I basically gave up on any chance of a proper form of discourse. Don't let the conspiracy of Apple trolls who for some reason all run Windows get you down though, it's definitely real.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45322941]PowerPC is not Apple proprietary hardware, it's an architecture solely owned, maintained, and developed by IBM. That's why 10.10 can't run on a G3, they don't even use the same instruction set.[/QUOTE]
PowerPC is actually a product of the AIM alliance (Apple, Motorola and IBM.) Without input of all three companies, PowerPC would not exist and the POWERx architecture would likely be considerably different.
[QUOTE=Kaabii;45322941]I basically gave up on any chance of a proper form of discourse. Don't let the conspiracy of Apple trolls who for some reason all run Windows get you down though, it's definitely real.[/QUOTE]
You didn't have any proper discourse from the beginning, it was just telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and getting pompous about your technical knowledge. Where's the conspiracy of trolls that only run Windows? I don't see any here.
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