• Windows 8
    8,715 replies, posted
yes ms actually has to make sure that some BUGS work that there is just so fucking stupid
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;37666026]Apple did it, and it was a massive improvement over OS 9.[/QUOTE] NetScape did it and it crashed their product. Rewriting software from scratch is stupid as fuck when seen from a programming standpoint. I know most of you would like to think that it's a magical undertaking that will make all your software twice as fast but that simply isn't true. If you wrote something like crap the first time, there's a good chance you'll write the same crap the second time. If you think you have a better way to write something, then write it and integrate it with your existing product. If you think something should be removed, then remove it from the product. But god, please don't rewrite things from scratch when you don't need to. You lose a massive amount of time and a non negligible amount of that will be spent working on the same bugs you already fixed years ago, the same features you wrote years ago, etc. It's demotivating for the team and doesn't accomplish much in the end. There's actually a pretty good article by Joel about this and I'm pretty sure he uses Netscape as his example. [QUOTE=Ezhik;37666097]yes ms actually has to make sure that some BUGS work that there is just so fucking stupid[/QUOTE] Every OS does this. Even a lot of programs you use. Real life is not theory-land. As programmers we both know this.
[QUOTE=gparent;37666118]NetScape did it and it crashed their product. Rewriting software from scratch is stupid as fuck when seen from a programming standpoint. I know most of you would like to think that it's a magical undertaking that will make all your software twice as fast but that simply isn't true. If you wrote something like crap the first time, there's a good chance you'll write the same crap the second time. If you think you have a better way to write something, then write it and integrate it with your existing product. If you think something should be removed, then remove it from the product. But god, please don't rewrite things from scratch when you don't need to. You lose a massive amount of time and a non negligible amount of that will be spent working on the same bugs you already fixed years ago, the same features you wrote years ago, etc. It's demotivating for the team and doesn't accomplish much in the end. There's actually a pretty good article by Joel about this and I'm pretty sure he uses Netscape as his example. Every OS does this. Even a lot of programs you use. Real life is not theory-land. As programmers we both know this.[/QUOTE] there has to be a limit to all that, though. microsoft needs to start dropping compatibility with ancient software. [editline]14th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Amiga OS;37666026]Apple did it, and it was a massive improvement over OS 9.[/QUOTE] microsoft did exactly the same with 9x and nt they based their new os on what they already had (nt/nextstep) though apple did a lot more rewriting
[QUOTE=Ezhik;37666223]there has to be a limit to all that, though. microsoft needs to start dropping compatibility with ancient software.[/QUOTE] I'm not going to argue with that, I'm with you 100%. I just disagree with the sentiment that a rewrite would actually help. As for dropping support for things, I can't deny it seems needed. Microsoft is often praised for their backwards compatibility but IMHO it's more myth than fact and other OSes have managed just fine without keeping years of cruft around.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;37666030]because if they got rid of it, people would whine about how their 20 year old app isn't working especially here on facepunch[/QUOTE] can't they just include some sorta of compatibility layer or emulator? They are a billion dollar company, they can do it (they just don't care)
They should just make a new Windows and update the old one, while making it available in a seamless emulator. Apple did shit right when they rebuilt the OS. It's beautiful and efficient, and while I disagree with some decisions, it's much better than Windows in many ways.
Yeah they could just continue to offer Windows XP Mode for people with legacy applications if they drastically reworked the OS
[QUOTE=ShaunOfTheLive;37669434]Yeah they could just continue to offer Windows XP Mode for people with legacy applications if they drastically reworked the OS[/QUOTE] It wouldn't even be too hard, it's not even a total architecture switch like Apple's switch from PowerPC. Just needs a total framework overhaul
[quote]We live in a world in which a random blogger writing for a random tech/gadget blog can essentially make something up, and it gets repeated across the Internet as fact, like some tech version of the telephone game. Such was the case recently when a report stated, pretty emphatically, that Microsoft would be renaming its Metro user experience as “Modern,” which, by the way, was the original internal code name of Metro. But it was never true. And this week, with Microsoft revealing (not for the first time) that the phrase “Metro-style” (as in “Metro-style app”) would be renamed “Windows Store” (as in “Windows Store app”), I hope we can finally put an end to this nonsense. As for the Metro interface, Microsoft is simply calling that Windows, because, in their words, “it’s just Windows.” Fair enough, I guess. Just stop calling it Modern, people. That was never going to be the name. [url]http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-september-14-2012-144251[/url] [/quote] Well, since the term Metro is officially dead, I guess I'll be using the term "tablet UI" to refer to the new over-simplified, extremely flat and lifeless parts of Windows 8.
[QUOTE=ManningQB18;37669415]They should just make a new Windows and update the old one, while making it available in a seamless emulator. Apple did shit right when they rebuilt the OS. It's beautiful and efficient, and while I disagree with some decisions, [B]it's much better than Windows in many ways.[/B][/QUOTE] tbh pretty much all OS's are better than Windows. But most of our precious games are Windows-only
[QUOTE=The Baconator;37669682]tbh pretty much all OS's are better than Windows. But most of our precious games are Windows-only[/QUOTE] I would firmly disagree on that part Windows is a heck of a lot more user friendly than linux at the moment (this doesn't matter much to me, but still), and I just flatout think think OSX is ugly.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;37669706]I would firmly disagree on that part Windows is a heck of a lot more user friendly than linux at the moment (this doesn't matter much to me, but still), and I just flatout think think OSX is ugly.[/QUOTE] gnome4's layout varies from distribution to distribution. kde is always horrible (opinion). what distros have you tried?
[QUOTE=usa;37669742]gnome4's layout varies from distribution to distribution. kde is always horrible (opinion). what distros have you tried?[/QUOTE] To be honest, I don't find it very hard to use (I have used Arch, ubuntu, #! and Fedora) It's more of the fact that for your average person that uses a computer for facebook and nothing more, linux can be a bit challenging.
Linux and OS X are a lot better [i]internally[/i] than Windows. OS X is more user friendly to some people (but not me), and Linux is getting there. But Windows will probably always have more application compatibility. You cannot reduce to this to a simplistic argument of "most OSes are [i]better[/i] than Windows" because "better" has a multitude of different criteria that can't simply be expressed in one word.
My interest in Windows as an OS at the moment has gained a lot of my attention, I really do like where microsoft is headed with it at the moment and hope to see more improvement later on down the line. The fact that windows is quite a bit more bloated by standard is offputting for some and it's something I would really like to see being improved on.
One thing I really respect about OS X, even though I don't personally use it: it has the best audio subsystem of any OS. Simple, unified, and very low latency. I can understand why professional DJs, composers and recorders use it.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;37669762]To be honest, I don't find it very hard to use (I have used Arch, ubuntu, #! and Fedora) [B]It's more of the fact that for your average person that uses a computer for facebook and nothing more, linux can be a bit challenging.[/B][/QUOTE] wouldn't it be the easiest for them since it comes with Firefox and stuff preinstalled? Just click and go
[QUOTE=The Baconator;37670157]wouldn't it be the easiest for them since it comes with Firefox and stuff preinstalled? Just click and go[/QUOTE] There are still lots of other things that can confuse your average joe Wifi on linux is a bit more obfuscated than what it is on Windows, for one
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;37670169]There are still lots of other things that can confuse your average joe Wifi on linux is a bit more obfuscated than what it is on Windows, for one[/QUOTE] yeah I guess, I dunno most linux distros are just so much smoother and cleaner than Windows
[QUOTE=The Baconator;37668344]can't they just include some sorta of compatibility layer or emulator? They are a billion dollar company, they can do it (they just don't care)[/QUOTE] Might as well not do anything then. You're running their compatibility layer. It's called Windows. [QUOTE=FlubberNugget;37669706]I would firmly disagree on that part Windows is a heck of a lot more user friendly than linux at the moment[/QUOTE] What kind of version of "at the moment" are they using in your town? Windows 8 is probably the most confusing edition of Windows released since a very long time. At the same time, Linux is probably easier to use than it has ever been. Either way, user friendliness is a dumb concept. It varies from person to person. [QUOTE=FlubberNugget;37669762]To be honest, I don't find it very hard to use (I have used Arch, ubuntu, #! and Fedora) It's more of the fact that for your average person that uses a computer for facebook and nothing more, linux can be a bit challenging.[/QUOTE] The "average person that uses a computer for Facebook and nothing more" couldn't give half a rat's ass about what OS he's running as long as the browser works. They're never going to install software that isn't click by click. They're never going to modify hidden OS settings. They're never going to compile a package from source in their life time. They're never going to have to get WiFi running, because who the fuck buys a laptop with non functioning WiFi exactly? For the average person, Linux stops being friendly when they stop being an average person. If you're compiling software from source, don't whine that it's hard. You're the one who chose to do something hard. I don't bitch about my car's lack of user friendliness when I decide to re-wire the engine.
Has anyone tried out Windows Server 2012 yet? I'm wondering what the RAM usage is like between it and 2008 R2.
I always see people arguing that iOS is better than Android and WP7 simply because it has more apps - that's a quality as well, but I don't think people really think about that when they say Windows is shit. And honestly, I have personally never seen better window management than on Windows. Microsoft may be hit and miss, but if I lost Aero Snap one day, I'd feel crippled when using a computer. That's what annoys me the most about Mac OSX, it's simply a chore just arranging your windows in a not-shit manner, and it's really only the multiple-desktop and the like that saves it from being completely terrible. I honestly don't think such patchwork is acceptable. Other than that, I find Mac OSX pretty okay, and the touchpad on the laptops is really what makes it stand out. I just find that Mac OSX really isn't better UI-wise (even if it's more consistent), but the control Apple has over [I]both [/I]the hardware and the software makes it attractive to many people.
[QUOTE=benjgvps;37671337]Has anyone tried out Windows Server 2012 yet? I'm wondering what the RAM usage is like between it and 2008 R2.[/QUOTE] I can't get it to run in a VM and I'm not daring putting that into actual hardware yet. Well, let me rephrase that: Running 2012 in a VM is nigh unusable because of Metro.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37673164]I always see people arguing that iOS is better than Android and WP7 simply because it has more apps - that's a quality as well, but I don't think people really think about that when they say Windows is shit. And honestly, I have personally never seen better window management than on Windows. Microsoft may be hit and miss, but if I lost Aero Snap one day, I'd feel crippled when using a computer. That's what annoys me the most about Mac OSX, it's simply a chore just arranging your windows in a not-shit manner, and it's really only the multiple-desktop and the like that saves it from being completely terrible. I honestly don't think such patchwork is acceptable. Other than that, I find Mac OSX pretty okay, and the touchpad on the laptops is really what makes it stand out. I just find that Mac OSX really isn't better UI-wise (even if it's more consistent), but the control Apple has over [I]both [/I]the hardware and the software makes it attractive to many people.[/QUOTE] Agree so hard. I have to spend about an hour per day on an iMac and the Window management is horrid.
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;37676114][img]http://i.imgur.com/s5ZPU.png[/img] I can't wait for a theme patch. I'm going to have fun ripping the ugly out. Those silly pastel coloured ribbon tabs are revolting, what were they thinking, the lower ribbon tabs are quite sufficient on their own (and wouldn't look completely horrible if they had a bit more work put into them) [editline]15th September 2012[/editline] I'd love a full metro icon pack for explorer, the aero ones look awful.[/QUOTE] There's been a UxTheme patch out since the day after it leaked. In fact here's a theme I found: [url]http://seahorsepip.deviantart.com/#/d5eogzp[/url]
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37673164]I always see people arguing that iOS is better than Android and WP7 simply because it has more apps - that's a quality as well, but I don't think people really think about that when they say Windows is shit. And honestly, I have personally never seen better window management than on Windows. Microsoft may be hit and miss, but if I lost Aero Snap one day, I'd feel crippled when using a computer. That's what annoys me the most about Mac OSX, it's simply a chore just arranging your windows in a not-shit manner, and it's really only the multiple-desktop and the like that saves it from being completely terrible. I honestly don't think such patchwork is acceptable. Other than that, I find Mac OSX pretty okay, and the touchpad on the laptops is really what makes it stand out. I just find that Mac OSX really isn't better UI-wise (even if it's more consistent), but the control Apple has over [I]both [/I]the hardware and the software makes it attractive to many people.[/QUOTE] don't a bunch of Linux distros have an equivalents to Snap now?
[QUOTE=The Baconator;37676687]don't a bunch of Linux distros have an equivalents to Snap now?[/QUOTE] I've honestly never been a Linux nut - sure I've tried Ubuntu, but that really isn't trying out Linux from what I gather. Linux simply doesn't have enough software support for me to use it - games and such are very limited, and though I would love to see it flourish, it's really not a viable alternative to Windows. At least for me.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37677471]I've honestly never been a Linux nut - sure I've tried Ubuntu, but that really isn't trying out Linux from what I gather. Linux simply doesn't have enough software support for me to use it - games and such are very limited, and though I would love to see it flourish, it's really not a viable alternative to Windows. At least for me.[/QUOTE] In linux, you dont search for the same software wich exists on windows. You search for a software that does the same / is similiar to the one you used on windows.
[QUOTE=kaukassus;37677545]In linux, you dont search for the same software wich exists on windows. You search for a software that does the same / is similiar to the one you used on windows.[/QUOTE] I know, I know. But searching for "Fallout 3", "Empire: Total War" and "Deus Ex: Human Revolution" turned up nothing, and as such the platform is really irrelevant to my interests right now.
[QUOTE=ShaunOfTheLive;37665986]They should just rewrite the damn OS; it's been like 20 years[/QUOTE] I don't think they need to rewrite the operating system as a whole, I think they need to re-do explorer and the backend behind it (themes, icons, etc). They've just built on top of it since Windows 95 and it's become a mess. I mean, Windows 8 is incredibly fast. It's just inconsistent as fuck on the desktop side of things. They need to either completely re-do it or keep the essentials and re-build everything around that.
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