• Microsoft claims Linux 'at end of life cycle'
    537 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Jookia;26269121]Only indie devs get less sales when they stick to one platform? What.[/QUOTE] Yes because most indie games lack quality.
[QUOTE=johan_sm;26269166]Yes because most indie games lack quality.[/QUOTE] I would rate you dumb and disagree if I could
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;26269965]I would rate you dumb and disagree if I could[/QUOTE] I'll help you there.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;26269965]I would rate you dumb and disagree if I could[/QUOTE] There are some exceptions, but usually it is true.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;26268614]reactOS? I doubt that. it's too underground first off, and second it's genuinely terrible[/QUOTE] Have a little faith, man... :smith:
[QUOTE=johan_sm;26270767]There are some exceptions, but usually it is true.[/QUOTE] Yes, I too believe that Garry's Mod is crap as it's an indie game. As is Overgrowth, Lugaru, World Of Goo, Osmos, Blockland and Dwarf Fortress. However, they are all inferior to masterpiece commercial games like Spore, Counterstrike Source, Runescape and WoW. Your logic is infallible.
[QUOTE=SA Spyder;26263636]Eh. OpenOffice is pretty decent but it's shit and chips compared to MS Office. Not saying that to be against the whole open movement or whatever, but Office 2007/2010 is currently (and will be for a long time) the best productivity suite by far.[/QUOTE] i would rather have the actual Office Suite, myself, but that doesn't make OO shit
[QUOTE=Jookia;26269121]Only indie devs get less sales when they stick to one platform? What.[/QUOTE] Indie games have small enough sales numbers that targeting more than one platform actually matters. Activision can release CoD:BO for only Windows and it will sell millions, thus negating any relevance of porting to Linux to satisfy a couple thousand or so potential buyers. The incentive for indie devs to port is further enhanced by the horrendous lack of decent games on Linux.
[QUOTE=mrcsb;26273571]Indie games have small enough sales numbers that targeting more than one platform actually matters. Activision can release CoD:BO for only Windows and it will sell millions, thus negating any relevance of porting to Linux to satisfy a couple thousand or so potential buyers. The incentive for indie devs to port is further enhanced by the horrendous lack of decent games on Linux.[/QUOTE] Wait, porting to Linux to satisfy a couple thousand or so potential buyers is not more than not porting to Linux? I don't have a degree in Mathematics, but I'm pretty sure that [i]n+1000 > n[/i].
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;26266389]Just wait until the folks at [url=http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html]ReactOS[/url] sort out the web browser issues and install problems with Steam (check out their forums), and you'll see big, [B]HUGE[/B] amounts of gamer communities dumping W*ndöws in no-time... Just you wait...[/QUOTE] JUST LIEK IM WAITING FOR LINUX DESKTOP OS OF THE YEAR RIGHT?!?! wake the fuck up it will never happen, no unity means businesses are going to stick their neck out to code for .02% of the market and have >.5% yields. The biggest fall down of linux is non unified, windows hasd this and that is why it will always, be ahead of linux in the desktop world. [editline]24th November 2010[/editline] I love the linux people bring up WE CAN DO EVERYTHING MICROSHIT CAN DO YES but it takes you fucking years to get it into an operatable mode for clients/non computer tech savvy people to use it as they do OSX/MS products. There is a reason that they are ahead and the linux desktop market is shit, no unity, no profit(forseeable) and no real reason to pay someone more to code for an OS that less than >4% of the market belongs to. Seriously if you ran a business, would you A) Code for a majority, make good profits and expand your company B) code for a very small minority and only base your profits off donations, or small sales GEEE THIS ISN'T HARD IF YOU EVER WORKED IN THE BUSSINES WORLD. If you choose B you either A) code for RH/Open SUSE/ Debian or B) never had a real job
[QUOTE=Pikachu231;26239259]Fuck it, I don't care about the boxes but, I am with Microsoft. Rate away asswipes.[/QUOTE] Guide to being a "Smart person" 1. Say that you don't care. you are cool because you don't care! Following this list will get you to smartness in no time!
[QUOTE=finbe;26280013]Guide to being a "Smart person" 1. Say that you don't care. you are cool because you don't care! 2. State nothing that has to do with the product its self and only how its marketed. Following this list will get you to smartness in no time![/QUOTE] marketing leads to growth, growth leads to sales, sales leads to more marketing.... You have no idea how stupid linux is for a desktop distro, yeah it is fun to experiment and touch up on some linux shit but that is about where it starts and abruptly stops. It isn't/wasn't meant for desktops, it was made for a way to effiectively use memory and the machine hardware for business critical roles. not OMG I CAN COMPILE FROM SOURCE AND PLAY MINECRAFT
[QUOTE=Jookia;26278460]Wait, porting to Linux to satisfy a couple thousand or so potential buyers is not more than not porting to Linux? I don't have a degree in Mathematics, but I'm pretty sure that [i]n+1000 > n[/i].[/QUOTE] You obviously don't have a degree in software engineering either. Porting a large game is incredibly costly. Porting a small game, OTOH, is generally worth the man-hours.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;26198883]Sorry Microsoft, I can't hear you over the sound of my Linux OS upgrading to the latest version for free![/QUOTE] I don't know if you thick fucks read correctly, but this is [b]Russian Microsoft[/b] You're really going to take someone that is in no position of power's word?
[QUOTE=mrcsb;26280508]You obviously don't have a degree in software engineering either. Porting a large game is incredibly costly. Porting a small game, OTOH, is generally worth the man-hours.[/QUOTE] I don't have a degree in software engineering yet, but I know from personal experience that porting a game to Linux from Windows is something [i]I[/i] can learn and do by myself in a few months using the raw X11 libraries. If you use something like SDL, it'll make the process possibly a week. A small game and a large game are indifferent when porting with proper abstraction from base design and platform-independent code.
[QUOTE=Jookia;26281055]I don't have a degree in software engineering yet, but I know from personal experience that porting a game to Linux from Windows is something [i]I[/i] can learn and do by myself in a few months using the raw X11 libraries. If you use something like SDL, it'll make the process possibly a week. A small game and a large game are indifferent when porting with proper abstraction from base design and platform-independent code.[/QUOTE] Yeah so you are going to be a 1 many army with a game? Sorry dude your projects are assigned to you in the industry, you may choose to work for company X/Y/Z but you do what they say in the end. A manager/coodranator isn't going to pay you for something that will not give any sizable yields, they will want you debugging or optimizing, or even a new project
[QUOTE=Jookia;26281055]I don't have a degree in software engineering yet, but I know from personal experience that porting a game to Linux from Windows is something [i]I[/i] can learn and do by myself in a few months using the raw X11 libraries. If you use something like SDL, it'll make the process possibly a week. A small game and a large game are indifferent when porting with proper abstraction from base design and platform-independent code.[/QUOTE] ROFL, go port an large application from Windows to Linux then get back to me. You have no idea what you're talking about. Programming doesn't have a magical ecosystem where everything works great with each other and platform-specific bugs don't exist. Just because you've had wonderful experiences with small software designed to be ported doesn't mean it's suddenly chips to port a multi-million dollar game.
[QUOTE=mrcsb;26281733]ROFL, go port an large application from Windows to Linux then get back to me. You have no idea what you're talking about. Programming doesn't have a magical ecosystem where everything works great with each other and platform-specific bugs don't exist. Just because you've had wonderful experiences with small software designed to be ported doesn't mean it's suddenly chips to port a multi-million dollar game.[/QUOTE] I just gave you a detailed reply and you don't address any of my points, great job. My entire post says that using correct design and knowledge of how to do it, it can be done. I never said there'd be no platform-specific bugs, but if you design your application properly, the bugs would only need to be fixed in platform-specific code which is abstracted from the rest of the project. [QUOTE=JohnEdwards;26281353]Yeah so you are going to be a 1 many army with a game? Sorry dude your projects are assigned to you in the industry, you may choose to work for company X/Y/Z but you do what they say in the end. A manager/coodranator isn't going to pay you for something that will not give any sizable yields, they will want you debugging or optimizing, or even a new project[/QUOTE] Thanks for dodging my entire point: It can be done when the project is designed correctly.
He's got a point though. For example, if you've got a Windows game, chances are it uses DirectX. If you want to port it to Linux you're going to basically have to recode the way you draw shit on the screen. And not all developers know how to work with OpenGL.
[QUOTE=nikomo;26282307]He's got a point though. For example, if you've got a Windows game, chances are it uses DirectX. If you want to port it to Linux you're going to basically have to recode the way you draw shit on the screen. And not all developers know how to work with OpenGL.[/QUOTE] My point is that if you design correctly, it should be easy to switch between DirectX, OpenGL and any other graphics library as it's abstracted.
[QUOTE=Jookia;26282206] Thanks for dodging my entire point: It can be done when the project is designed correctly.[/QUOTE] No, I am not dodgin your point I am putting it into a practical manner not some theoretical bullshit, yes theoritcally it would be easy, but is that going to pay for your theoretical bills, food, gas while you transport it to linux? fuck no, bugs come up, people need to get paid, deadlines are set, shit doesn't get done for a reason, if it was that easy Office, photoshop, etc would all have perfectly working linux binaries to run off of. Adobe doesn't just go HMM UBUNTU IS GHEY SO LET'S NOT DEVELOP FOR IT. No they look at the market share, look at how much time a port would take, account it all expenses up, then look at profit gains and see it isn't fucking worth it [editline]25th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Jookia;26282365]My point is that if you design correctly, it should be easy to switch between DirectX, OpenGL and any other graphics library as it's abstracted.[/QUOTE] Yeah that is great, but guess what that is a theory, it's like saying "Well all drivers passed the drivers test therefore no accidents will occur this year!" No shit come up, people don't have time to piddle around with everything; take the majority market and specailize on that not "Gee let's go develop for linux windows and OSX" Oh we need an open gl programmer? Hope he can work for 30k/yr because our profits will be slim." That isn't how the world works
You do have a point about the resources of doing it, but you base the rest of the problems on the market for the product to be ported. Since the product isn't on Linux, how do you know the market for it on Linux?
Every time I install a new version of Ubuntu on my test machines, I find the installer more friendly and the interface improved. I'm giving it a few more versions before it begins to be consumer friendly, it's not quite there yet but it's rapidly becoming usable for normal people who would be terrified of something as simple as a sudo apt-get install command.
[QUOTE=Jookia;26282575]You do have a point about the resources of doing it, but you base the rest of the problems on the market for the product to be ported. Since the product isn't on Linux, how do you know the market for it on Linux?[/QUOTE] There isn't a market for linux in the desktop realm, that's how I know. The money is in the servers, and that's where the market goes, it follows the money trail, it always does and always will
[QUOTE=JohnEdwards;26282649]There isn't a market for linux in the desktop realm, that's how I know. The money is in the servers, and that's where the market goes, it follows the money trail, it always does and always will[/QUOTE] How do you know there isn't a market in the desktop realm though?
[QUOTE=Jookia;26282697]How do you know there isn't a market in the desktop realm though?[/QUOTE] Its isn't unified, OSX/Windows has a unity in packages, executables and such, linux can vary distro to distro. Linux/UNIX is not meant to be unified it is meant to be an OS for a job specific task, customizable to the point it can perform the task very efficiently, that trait is its biggest downfall. Without having boundries or rule list it can not conquer the desktop market, server market yes, because people know what they are doing, can get a specific app to do a Business critical task refine it and optimize it. Windows can't do that but it can be a good sanbox with boundaries where dev's can develop and make money and have it generally work across the board
Can you not dodge my question? All you did was point out developer difficulties, not things to do with there actually being a market.
[QUOTE=JohnEdwards;26282789]Its isn't unified, OSX/Windows has a unity in packages, executables and such, linux can vary distro to distro. Linux/UNIX is not meant to be unified it is meant to be an OS for a job specific task, customizable to the point it can perform the task very efficiently, that trait is its biggest downfall. Without having boundries or rule list it can not conquer the desktop market, server market yes, because people know what they are doing, can get a specific app to do a Business critical task refine it and optimize it. Windows can't do that but it can be a good sanbox with boundaries where dev's can develop and make money and have it generally work across the board[/QUOTE] release a debian package for a big name program like steam I guarantee within a few weeks there will be dozens of packages set up for portage, rpm, pacman, and pretty much any other package manager you can think of
[QUOTE=Jookia;26283050]Can you not dodge my question? All you did was point out developer difficulties, not things to do with there actually being a market.[/QUOTE] you mis understand Developers are going to run into a wall if there is no market, or no profitable market. It would be like me making an application to count how many Doritos you eat a year, no one will care no one will buy it and I will go hungry. Developers are going to develop for a market, if the market looks like mash potatoes with no unity, and has little no no wallet in the desktop realm, what is the point to develop for it. You seem to miss the concept of how markets and developers interact [editline]25th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=ButtsexV2;26283066]release a debian package for a big name program like steam I guarantee within a few weeks there will be dozens of packages set up for portage, rpm, pacman, and pretty much any other package manager you can think of[/QUOTE] Yes, but they would have to crack open steam and look under the hood, which isn't going to happen to copyrighted material.
You're missing my point. Not porting something to Linux like Photoshop or Steam by using the excuse that there's no market is circular logic as Photoshop isn't on Linux and neither is Steam. I'm beginning to question if you've even used Linux when you talk about lack of unity and the whole 'executables vary from distro to distro' statement.
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