• Home Audio Megathread
    513 replies, posted
40 to 50 is the norm for bookshelves, larger woofers won't make much of a difference because it's the size limitations of the cabinet that's preventing them from going lower. For instance, monitor audio Rx2s have 8 inch woofers, but they only go down to 40hz. [img]http://www.audioadvisor.com/images/MRSRX-2_MARY.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Martti010;39304858] (OP, you should maybe add 'bass reflex' in speaker terms. Just a suggestion. )[/QUOTE] Isn't that just a fancy marketing word for "ported" though?
[QUOTE=Lamar;39307671]40 to 50 is the norm for bookshelves, larger woofers won't make much of a difference because it's the size limitations of the cabinet that's preventing them from going lower. For instance, monitor audio Rx2s have 8 inch woofers, but they only go down to 40hz. [IMG]http://www.audioadvisor.com/images/MRSRX-2_MARY.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Well the main reason that two way bookshelves do not often go low is that you have to have a woofer that articulates properly from 40/50hz-3,000hz on average since it's got to cover the entire spectrum till the tweeter can take over. You can get 8" drivers that put out some low frequencies around 27-31hz in a small sealed enclosure but they are going to max out at around 2,000hz and not sound that good as they get up near that. So in order to keep a nice midrange they have to sacrifice that last 10-15hz on the low end. The best solution is a 3-way system with a midrange that covers the 6/800hz-3,000hz range, freeing you up to use a nice low frequency woofer for the low end.
I thought I might share some of my personal audio/video equipment.. Starting from the top: Archer 15-1272A video processor, Kenwood GE-90 graphic equalizer, Nakamichi BX-300 cassette deck, Sony TA-AX44 amplifier (Haha Warship!), JVC TD-W309 cassette deck, Optimus CD-7300 Compact Disc player, Zenith VR-1825 video recorder [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/img8842s.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img138/7292/img8842s.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Here you can see my 1974 Zenith Allegro Wedge (sorry I didn't have a better picture of the console unit) with the original speakers. It has a solid state AM/FM receiver, 8-track tape player, and 33/45/78 rpm turntable ....also in the background: 1984 General Electric TV (forget the model number off hand), Texas Instruments TI-99/4a computer, Panasonic Omnivision PV-1461 video recorder [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/img8846se.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img210/9311/img8846se.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Here is a Pioneer CT-M6R 6-cassette tape deck. Sound quality is pretty good, but not the best out of the other tape decks I have, so I don't use this unit very often. Nevertheless, it's always great to have a multi-cassette tape deck! It's an HX-Pro unit with several programming options. Nice build quality and weighs a ton. [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/401/img0797sb.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img401/8601/img0797sb.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I got this tape deck a month ago for ONE DOLLAR; it's a Pioneer CT-3070R which is interesting, because I've read that the US model was marketed as the CT-S88R, while the German model was marketed as the CR-3070R.. yet mine still has an American power plug? Most of these manufactured tape decks also don't sport the wooden side panels (similar to the later Elite series).... so I feel like I have a very special tape deck! It has a lot of programming features along with Dolby B, C and dbx! [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/img01782s.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img35/3020/img01782s.jpg[/IMG][/URL] This is a Technics M253X tape deck, I just about passed it up on the shelf of a local thrift store until I saw that it was a 3 head! After doing a brief test, I talked them down to Five Dollars and bought it. It's features include bias adjust, Dolby B &c, dbx type 1 and type 2! It has a pretty sophisticated display for 1982.... [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/img08482s.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img717/9729/img08482s.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Just some of my (new old stock) sealed blank tapes.. a lot of them are just type I, but I couldn't pass up the four boxes of UR90s for a dollar each! Yeah I could have a better selection, but I only buy from thrift findings and never pay more than $1 each. I usually just record over older tapes that have been opened anyway.. I have several type IV metal tapes and endless amounts of type IIs. [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/img0251sm.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img208/5018/img0251sm.jpg[/IMG][/URL] This picture represents about half of all my cassettes.. I have about 2500 I think.. name an album and I probably have it Haha. [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/1004263s.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img838/1958/1004263s.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Don't forget my 1987 Sony Walkman WM-D3. It's a professional grade portable cassette recorder with great sound quality. It has chrome tape selector, Dolby B and a cool LED display for either peak levels or battery life. [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/1004328.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img835/9084/1004328.jpg[/IMG][/URL] And since Ajacks SAID anything that is part of the process of making sound waves.... The story of my 1985 Yamaha Electone MR-700- I was visiting Indiana a couple years ago from Florida and found it at a thrift store for 80 bucks.. in mint condition. I was jumping in joy at what I had found but quickly realized one problem.. It's SIZE. I drove a tiny 2000 Accord with no hope of fitting the darn thing. I was 2 hours away from my home town and had to beg my friend to drive up in his truck to deliver it to my grandparents until I figured out how to get it to Florida. I ended up driving back to Indiana in December with a truck to bring the organ home. With my fantastic luck, we were having a blizzard on the day I planned to leave, So I had to strap it up with polytarp and leave the night before to try and beat the storm. The 11 hour trip ended up being 16 hours driving through rain and stopping to re-adjust the tarp every 50 miles, with no sleep prior to the drive. Once I got that dagnabbit thing home I realized where I had saved money, I gained 3 new grey hairs. [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/img9116q.jpg/][IMG]http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2892/img9116q.jpg[/IMG][/URL] You may ask "WHY THE LENGTHY DETAIL ABOUT AN OLD ORGAN AND NO WORDS ON THE NAKAMICHI??" ....Well, currently the Nakamichi is awaiting a new idler wheel, and I've been too lazy to order one, and besides, I think you get the point, It's a NAKAMICHI. Haha I may update this post later with vinyls, speakers, etc.. these are just images I already had taken. Did I mention I was a vintage enthusiast?
Neat, I love the design of that walkman.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;39309169]Well the main reason that two way bookshelves do not often go low is that you have to have a woofer that articulates properly from 40/50hz-3,000hz on average since it's got to cover the entire spectrum till the tweeter can take over. You can get 8" drivers that put out some low frequencies around 27-31hz in a small sealed enclosure but they are going to max out at around 2,000hz and not sound that good as they get up near that. So in order to keep a nice midrange they have to sacrifice that last 10-15hz on the low end. The best solution is a 3-way system with a midrange that covers the 6/800hz-3,000hz range, freeing you up to use a nice low frequency woofer for the low end.[/QUOTE] My main concern with subwoofers is that it could sound strange when bass is coming somewhere else away from speakers, and since I produce music (not as a professional or something) I don't think a 2.1 system would be a good thing to use for production. Yeah there's studio monitors but no way I'm gonna have free money for these (and probably an amplifier) yet. I would be fine with 40-45hz starting range bookshelves. Besides I have headphones if I need to hear all of the spectrum.
Yeah, subwoofers are bad for stereo seperation. But for normal music listening, it's fine. You can't really hear where the bass is coming from anyway, as deep frequencies seem to reflect a lot in rooms.
[QUOTE=Warship;39313386] You can't really hear where the bass is coming from anyway, as deep frequencies seem to reflect a lot in rooms.[/QUOTE] From a little experience I think it would be strange sounding when subwoofer is on the ground and speakers are at eye level though.
Subwoofers are supposed to be on the floor...
[QUOTE=Warship;39313450]Subwoofers are supposed to be on the floor...[/QUOTE] My mistake. I don't think I would buy one though. Probably because I have lack of/bad experience with them and I've mostly used bookshelf speakers.
[QUOTE=Martti010;39313259]My main concern with subwoofers is that it could sound strange when bass is coming somewhere else away from speakers, and since I produce music (not as a professional or something) I don't think a 2.1 system would be a good thing to use for production. Yeah there's studio monitors but no way I'm gonna have free money for these (and probably an amplifier) yet. I would be fine with 40-45hz starting range bookshelves. Besides I have headphones if I need to hear all of the spectrum.[/QUOTE] Audio frequencies become non-directional bellow 50/60hz. If you had your subwoofer properly placed in a room and had it crossed over at the appropriate cycle then you shouldn't be able to tell that the sound isn't coming from your mains. The thing is though, since most people are relatively close to their speakers in a home environment and you run into some issues that most people can sense localization clues from the subwoofer. One of the best ways to avoid or reduce this problem is to use two subwoofers at opposite sides of the listening room, preferably with the subs placed in the room corners. If you are mixing audio and it is a crucial that you get accurate reproduction then the options are either get two subwoofers, one for each side of the room to match the small monitors, or to upgrade to a setup using full-range speakers rather than bookshelf monitors. Also for mixing purposes I would avoid using a ported subwoofer and instead opt for ones with passive radiators or sealed enclosures since ports introduce additional unnecessary noise. [QUOTE=catfishtango;39312786] Did I mention I was a vintage enthusiast?[/QUOTE] Now that's one hell of a collection! That's all down in florida with you now? I thought you said you had to leave some behind in Indiana? How are those Zenith Allegro speakers? I've seen them time and time again at the thrift shops and never wanted to pick them up since I could never look at the drivers. Could you take a picture of the drivers sometime if the front mesh comes off? From what I remember seeing though it's glued down. That collection of new old stock tapes is impressive, is that also an original sealed copy of Terminator 2 on VHS? Where do you find that kind of thing? That organ looks awesome, how does it sound? What kind of speakers/amp does it have internally?
[QUOTE=Ajacks;39315026]preferably with the subs placed in the room corners.[/QUOTE] Huh? Ideally you want the sub away from any surfaces or it will suffer from [url=http://www.synaudcon.com/site/author/pat-brown/how-boundaries-affect-loudspeakers/]boundary effect[/url], this is even worse in a corner, yielding a lumpy increase in sound pressure levels across its frequency range. Potentially louder, yes, but at the expensive of linearity. You also increase the chance of exciting room modes. This is why I don't like the whole "your sub NEEDS to be on the floor" I hear on here, it's not entirely true, the floor is just another boundary to contend with. In some cases it may be better to have it elevated, or even suspended from a ceiling, of course it is also true that for your room having it on the floor might be the best place. Experimentation is key here, though it is possible to approximate the position with some number crunching. At least this is what I was taught, I am open to any input on this, especially if you have tried this. No one knows everything and my knowledge mostly stems from deployment of large PA systems. I used to have an electone. I blew the amplifier board though. :(
[QUOTE=Tezzanator92;39315434]Huh? Ideally you want the sub away from any surfaces or it will suffer from boundary effect this is even worse in a corner, yielding a lumpy increase in sound pressure levels across its frequency range. Potentially louder, yes, but at the expensive of linearity. This is why I don't like the whole "your sub NEEDS to be on the floor" I hear on here, it's not entirely true, the floor is just another boundary to contend with. In some cases it may be better to have it elevated, or even suspended from a ceiling, of course it is also true that for your room having it on the floor is the best place. Experimentation is key here, though it is possible to approximate the position with some number crunching. I used to have an electone. I blew the amplifier board though.[/QUOTE] My mistake, that's my home theater orientation talking, emphasizing cabin gain and corner loading. I wasn't thinking of the fidelity loss. I just looked up pictures of mixing studios, and can someone explain to me why they are using small monitors on average rather than proper full range three-way speakers? I understand some people are on budget constraints but some of these studios are massive with a lot of money in equipment and they don't look like they can extend bellow 35hz on average. Just curious.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;39315486]I just looked up pictures of mixing studios, and can someone explain to me why they are using small monitors on average rather than proper full range three-way speakers? I understand some people are on budget constraints but some of these studios are massive with a lot of money in equipment and they don't look like they can extend bellow 35hz on average. Just curious.[/QUOTE] Well not hearing below 35hz isn't a big loss, is it? Most tracks don't even go that low as far as I know, I've heard a few EDM tracks that are on 35hz with low bass. There is no great reason to go lower than that when producing a track, unless they do special effects. That's why I don't feel the need to get extra subwoofer(s) and rather get a proper 2.0 system. Also studio monitors have flat response and least distortion(THD) so they should have clear and natural sound.
Are old-ish aiwa hifis any good? I also have some speakers that my dad built from scratch many moons ago, will have to post pics at some point but IIRC they are awful
[QUOTE=Martti010;39316625]Well not hearing below 35hz isn't a big loss, is it? Most tracks don't even go that low as far as I know, I've heard a few EDM tracks that are on 35hz with low bass. There is no great reason to go lower than that when producing a track, unless they do special effects. That's why I don't feel the need to get extra subwoofer(s) and rather get a proper 2.0 system. Also studio monitors have flat response and least distortion(THD) so they should have clear and natural sound.[/QUOTE] I can tell you from personal experience with my sealed 15" that reaches down to 15hz that there is a lot going on, especially in orchestral music. It looks like from what I can tell from my research I just did into mixing and studios is that most people use small monitor speakers, some with subwoofers, most without but most of the guys with the small monitors want larger ones for that lower output. If you have a subwoofer your room better have really well done acoustic treatments to prevent uneven response. If I was needing to mix something I would feel that being able to have a flat response down to the bottom of the audible range would be a requirement, but that would take a set of very large 3-way's that would require a lot of room space.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;39317927]If you have a subwoofer your room better have really well done acoustic treatments to prevent uneven response[/QUOTE] I hate my room. My 100W sub only sounds good in some spots of the room, and the floor is relatively soft so it vibrates a shitload (so everything rattles) Refer to the video of the lock posted earlier in the thread :v:
[img]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/ajackss/gg.jpg?t=1358887800[/img] Got a pair of advents at goodwill today for nearly nothing. They are not mind blowing speakers but I've already got the larger version of the same series and once these are repaired I'll have a complete Advent surround sound system. These will make good rears, now i just need to fabricate up some nice steel speaker stands for all my bookshelf and surround speakers I'm piling up. It's going to cost me about $6 to refoam these, I'm going to order the new foam for my OHM subwoofer at the same time. Just emailed a wholesale distributor about the surrounds. [editline]22nd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Warship;39318993]I hate my room. My 100W sub only sounds good in some spots of the room, and the floor is relatively soft so it vibrates a shitload (so everything rattles) Refer to the video of the lock posted earlier in the thread :v:[/QUOTE] Have you tried moving it around to get the best output at your listening postion?
Yeah, I've tried three positions, and the corner (where it is now) seems to work the best. It's also hidden under my bed, so if someone was to come over I could trick them into thinking I had magical, extremely powerful bookshelf speakers :v:
I always thought building a sofa that doubled as a large volume sub enclosure would be pretty cool, maybe not ideal for outright sound quality but all that cabinet volume would make for a pretty insane low tuning. You'd feel it too!
[QUOTE=Ajacks;39315026]Now that's one hell of a collection! That's all down in florida with you now? I thought you said you had to leave some behind in Indiana? How are those Zenith Allegro speakers? I've seen them time and time again at the thrift shops and never wanted to pick them up since I could never look at the drivers. Could you take a picture of the drivers sometime if the front mesh comes off? From what I remember seeing though it's glued down. That collection of new old stock tapes is impressive, is that also an original sealed copy of Terminator 2 on VHS? Where do you find that kind of thing? That organ looks awesome, how does it sound? What kind of speakers/amp does it have internally?[/QUOTE] I had to get rid of my EPI 200c speakers and some lower end tape decks, but I still have most of my equipment. The Allegro speakers are wonderful, although rated at a surprisingly low wattage compared to their output (I can't remember the specs off hand). I wish I could see the drivers but as you said, everything seemed to be glued down. They still sound great to this day and haven't rotted out yet (knock on wood) The Terminator 2 VHS is not an Original copy, it's dated 1998. I bought those yesterday at Old Time Pottery.. which was really random.. they just had a huge bin of VHS tapes on sale for $2.50 each. I got Terminator 2, Terminator 3, a 1995 Terminator collection box with 1&2, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (digitally remastered widescreen), X-men 2, and 007 Die Another Day. The Electone organ has an incredible speaker system, which I have not taken apart to look at. It's got to have at least a 10 inch woofer with really low frequency response.
I have a couple of receivers I've been playing around with a bit. I don't know a whole lot about audio so go easy. The top is a Sony XTR-VX2, apparently its not very good. A cheap receiver even when it was released, the right channel is having an issue as well. The one below it is a Harman/Kardon HK385i which is apparently an okay model. No problems with it. [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img706/9016/img2013012200257r.jpg[/img] I tried a cheapo pair of Sony MDR NC7's on it and they sounded good. I compared it to just my Sansa without the receiver and it sounded like there was a bit more [i]oomph[/i] to it when going through the receiver. I can't really explain as I don't really know what all these audio terms are and I've only momentarily heard a decent pair of headphones. I've kinda caught the bug now and I want something really decent and learn more about audio. Been eying the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250ohm and I want to know if something like the HK385i would be sufficient to power them or if its just junk and will make good headphones sound like crap. I also would like to know what to look for when searching for some older speakers at flea markets and thrift stores, I'm sure there's lots of junk out there but I can't really differentiate what is nice and what is crap when it comes to this stuff. Anything special I should be looking out for?
[QUOTE=catfishtango;39320601]I had to get rid of my EPI 200c speakers and some lower end tape decks, but I still have most of my equipment. The Allegro speakers are wonderful, although rated at a surprisingly low wattage compared to their output (I can't remember the specs off hand). I wish I could see the drivers but as you said, everything seemed to be glued down. They still sound great to this day and haven't rotted out yet (knock on wood) The Terminator 2 VHS is not an Original copy, it's dated 1998. I bought those yesterday at Old Time Pottery.. which was really random.. they just had a huge bin of VHS tapes on sale for $2.50 each. I got Terminator 2, Terminator 3, a 1995 Terminator collection box with 1&2, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (digitally remastered widescreen), X-men 2, and 007 Die Another Day. The Electone organ has an incredible speaker system, which I have not taken apart to look at. It's got to have at least a 10 inch woofer with really low frequency response.[/QUOTE] Did you sell the EPI's? I'll have to pickup a pair of Allegros if I see them for a dollar or two, just to play. I was at goodwill again today (I know, twice a day is a bit much) but they set out this set of Fisher speakers, good god, I pried off the retro fabric front panel and it literally looked like the driver's surround was made of hot black tar, just literally oozing and was sticky to the touch, disgusting, the tweeter was paper as well. I didn't expect much different but I was just curious. I did though get this for 50 cents, [img_thumb]http://www.thestrong.org/online-collections/images/Z002/Z00259/Z0025932.jpg[/img_thumb] Needless to say I was yelling "Captain Planet" quite a bit as me and my girlfriend played a round earlier.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;39323344]Did you sell the EPI's? I'll have to pickup a pair of Allegros if I see them for a dollar or two, just to play. I was at goodwill again today (I know, twice a day is a bit much) but they set out this set of Fisher speakers, good god, I pried off the retro fabric front panel and it literally looked like the driver's surround was made of hot black tar, just literally oozing and was sticky to the touch, disgusting, the tweeter was paper as well. I didn't expect much different but I was just curious. [/QUOTE] I tried selling them in a garage sale, but nobody wanted to pay more than 10 bucks for them, so I ended up having to give them away to goodwill after no decent offers were made.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;39317927]I can tell you from personal experience with my sealed 15" that reaches down to 15hz that there is a lot going on, especially in orchestral music. If you have a subwoofer your room better have really well done acoustic treatments to prevent uneven response. [/QUOTE] Oh okay, I'm into EDM (Electronic Dance Music) myself. At least with my studio headphones I couldn't hear much in usual EDM tracks below 40hz. Perhaps it's more audible with loudspeakers. Also I found out about room acoustics like a week ago or so, I found out that I have a horrible room setup so I laid a carpet down and did some other small changes that I could do right away. I still have a problem, my speakers are in the corner of the room so I'll try to move them out from the corner ASAP. [QUOTE=M2k3;39323006]I also would like to know what to look for when searching for some older speakers at flea markets and thrift stores, I'm sure there's lots of junk out there but I can't really differentiate what is nice and what is crap when it comes to this stuff. Anything special I should be looking out for?[/QUOTE] I have the same question, today I visited some flea markets, I found some Sony bookshelves that didn't have any information on it at all, and some Schneider wide range ones that even had spectrum graph thingy on 'em, but I don't know if they would be a good purchase. Also found a Technics amplifier but it seemed to be bundled with a radio and some weird speakers. I'm very interested in the amp only.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;39282500]What kind of subwoofer are you using at the moment? [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] For a budget home theater active subwoofer I would definitely go with the Polk Audio PSW505, it's a 12" with a 300watt plate amp, people rant and rave about its performance for the price. You don't see to many people with negative things to say about it, obviously you can go bigger and more powerful but it's a fantastic intro subwoofer. [img]http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/products/2003/107/h107psw505-o.jpeg[/img] You can get it for $190 on average and I've seen it go quite a bit cheaper as well. Great value for your money[/QUOTE] Thanks, I'm not actually using a sub at the moment I've got 2 passive subs just lying around but they're not really much use. I'm using old speakers, although I mainly use the receiver for 1080p upscaling and headphone out for playing games. Audio wise there's quite a bit in my room but none of it is really that interesting, some vinyl turntables, panasonic speakers, advent flat panel speakers (just bad), Beyerdynamic DT250s, Sennheiser hd598, triplefi 10s. As you can see I prefer headphones haha. What's up with amazon prices? amazon.com $189.99 or £119.89 amazon.co.uk $774.62 or £489.00 [url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B008FL3S96/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1358966844&sr=8-1&condition=new[/url] [url]http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-12-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B000092TT0[/url]
[QUOTE=Anthrax713;39330558]What's up with amazon prices? [/QUOTE] Might be that in Europe things are more expensive than in US, for example my Sennheiser HD280s in Finland cost 121€ (varies, that was the cheapest offer I found online) while in US it costs about 75 euros on Amazon.
The price on the UK site is from a third party seller, who can charge whatever.
[QUOTE=Kaburorne;39332289]The price on the UK site is from a third party seller, who can charge whatever.[/QUOTE] oh that's fair enough, it's a shame they won't let me buy from US.
[video=youtube;FM-VpI0tlq4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM-VpI0tlq4[/video] I'm charging my 9v atm, gonna see how long it lasts tomorrow. If it lasts good, I'm gonna try and modify it so it can have 9v batteries inside the battery compartment without loosing connection etc [editline]24th January 2013[/editline] I also tried to get it to work with a laptop battery, but there's like a thousand terminals and just taking the far right and far left ones didn't work.
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