[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;18428705]Perpetual motion is possible, provided there is no friction.
I learned this back in 7th grade, energy cannot be created or destroyed. So as long as there is no friction, there is nothing to convert kinetic energy into thermal energy.
So pretty much do this in a vacuum, and it might halfway work.[/QUOTE]
Not even then. Even in a vacuum, you have axles and spindles pressing against bearings, resulting in friction. If you used magic frictionless bearings, then there's the other problem: When an alternator/generator is put under a load, current flows through the coils in the generator, generating a magnetic field that works against the magnetic fields of the magnets inside the generator, requiring more energy to keep the generator spinning at the same speed when under load.
[QUOTE=Dr Egg;18429106]I hope if you ever attempt to build this anyway you treat this diagram as to scale.[/QUOTE]
After he's done, he can tell me where to get the parts to build his tiny ass PC.
I'm sure I'd be able to get... Quake 1 to run on it or something.
[QUOTE=uber sky;18387660]Why can't you just use an outlet like everyone else?
This looks risky, 90 amps seems low to me.[/QUOTE]
90A is a [highlight]fuck load[/highlight].
[QUOTE=Samuelgames;18426375]By the way your phone line provides 50v when idle, amp that up.[/QUOTE]
Not enough current I'd assume.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;18428705]Perpetual motion is possible, provided there is no friction.[/quote]
A.K.A. In theory.
[Quote]I learned this back in 7th grade, energy cannot be created or destroyed. So as long as there is no friction, there is nothing to convert kinetic energy into thermal energy.
So pretty much do this in a vacuum, and it might halfway work.[/QUOTE]
Atmosphere isn't the only thing that causes frictional loses. As Zero-point mentioned, there's friction between all the moving parts as well as from the magnetic flux in the motor/generator which increases as the load on the motor/generator increases. There's also small amounts of energy lost as heat from line resistance in all the electronics, so no, it won't even 'halfway' work.
OP: Buy a low power computer/laptop to use when you're not playing games and save some money that way.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;18428705]Perpetual motion is possible, provided there is no friction.
I learned this back in 7th grade, energy cannot be created or destroyed. So as long as there is no friction, there is nothing to convert kinetic energy into thermal energy.
So pretty much do this in a vacuum, and it might halfway work.[/QUOTE]
Even under perfectly ideal conditions (no friction, no electrical resistance, etc) this setup would still be pointless. The computer would be getting all its energy from the battery, and the generator / motor would be spinning uselessly.
Going camping are we?
[QUOTE=yngndrw;18425545]Then why bother with the motor / generator ? What you are effectively proposing is to connect an inverter to a large battery. Nothing will charge the battery and hence he will not see any benefit other than it functioning like a basic UPS. You cannot create energy. (Although you can convert mass to energy, but that's another story.)[/QUOTE]
I am guessing you don't know much about semi's, do you? Once you get a semi started, you can remove both the batteries and the generator provides enough electricity for the engine to function normally. It just needs the battery to start it. I haven't tested this, but it should be the same way with his concept. You use the battery to turn the 12v engine and put the initial charge into the generator, and it should beable to supply enough power to keep itself going. Now add a battery. When the battery is fully charged, you can hook up something to it (in this case, a computer) and have it run off the battery. Then once the battery dies, it will start using power off the generator. If this happens, depending on the size of the generator, it may or may not keep going. But if you disconnect what is using power from the battery and let the motor/generator combo recharge the battery, you can then re-attach the computer to the battery and use it some more.
No idea if it would actually work that way with an electric powered generator, but I know it works that way with gasoline generators.
[QUOTE=FordLord;18446853]I am guessing you don't know much about semi's, do you? Once you get a semi started, you can remove both the batteries and the generator provides enough electricity for the engine to function normally. It just needs the battery to start it. I haven't tested this, but it should be the same way with his concept. You use the battery to turn the 12v engine and put the initial charge into the generator, and it should beable to supply enough power to keep itself going. Now add a battery. When the battery is fully charged, you can hook up something to it (in this case, a computer) and have it run off the battery. Then once the battery dies, it will start using power off the generator. If this happens, depending on the size of the generator, it may or may not keep going. But if you disconnect what is using power from the battery and let the motor/generator combo recharge the battery, you can then re-attach the computer to the battery and use it some more.
No idea if it would actually work that way with an electric powered generator, but I know it works that way with gasoline generators.[/QUOTE]
I'm guessing you don't know much about physics, do you? It works that way for gas powered generators because the energy is coming from the gasoline. You don't even need a battery except to provide the initial spark to ignite the gasoline, which is why small gas generators often use a starter cord instead. With the OP's setup the only energy source is the battery. The generator can't produce any more energy than the motor uses so the generator + motor is essentially a useless middleman between the battery and the computer.
[QUOTE=anklyne;18434607]Atmosphere isn't the only thing that causes frictional loses. As Zero-point mentioned, there's friction between all the moving parts as well as from the magnetic flux in the motor/generator which increases as the load on the motor/generator increases. There's also small amounts of energy lost as heat from line resistance in all the electronics, so no, it won't even 'halfway' work..[/QUOTE]
Not to mention the natural magnetic field created by the electric current in the generator will slightly reduce the effects of the magnetic field, equalizing the flux. These natural "equalizers" in physics make it impossible to make things 100% "ideal" conditions, and there's nothing we can do about it.
[QUOTE=ep9832;18442724]Going camping are we?[/QUOTE]
yes
[QUOTE=Roast Beast;18446993]I'm guessing you don't know much about physics, do you? It works that way for gas powered generators because the energy is coming from the gasoline. You don't even need a battery except to provide the initial spark to ignite the gasoline, which is why small gas generators often use a starter cord instead. With the OP's setup the only energy source is the battery. The generator can't produce any more energy than the motor uses so the generator + motor is essentially a useless middleman between the battery and the computer.[/QUOTE]
You really don't know much about gasoline engines, do you? When you start a gasoline engine, the battery turns the starter motor, provides the initial spark from the spark plugs, then it gives the initial charge to the alternator which is how the battery doesn't go dead. Small engines use a pull starter because they don't need a battery. They still have alternators to produce enough electricity to fire the spark plugs.
The generator does produce more energy than what the motor is using because of the gear ratios. If it was a 1:1 ratio, it would be producing only enough for the motor. But at a 1:2 ratio, it will produce more than what the motor needs.
Are you guys brits or something? The picture shows an alternator, but everyone is calling it a generator.
[QUOTE=FordLord;18453470]The generator does produce more energy than what the motor is using because of the gear ratios. If it was a 1:1 ratio, it would be producing only enough for the motor. But at a 1:2 ratio, it will produce more than what the motor needs.[/QUOTE]
When you gear something up 2:1 you get double the speed, but half the torque. In other words [b]the same amount of energy[/b] (less actually, because of friction).
This isn't complicated. I knew this since I was 10 and played with Lego Technic.
[QUOTE=FordLord;18453470]You really don't know much about gasoline engines, do you? When you start a gasoline engine, the battery turns the starter motor, provides the initial spark from the spark plugs, then it gives the initial charge to the alternator which is how the battery doesn't go dead. Small engines use a pull starter because they don't need a battery. They still have alternators to produce enough electricity to fire the spark plugs.[/QUOTE]
Uh yeah, I think that's what I just said. You don't need a battery because some of the energy [B]from the gasoline[/B] is going to the alternator which supplies electricity to the spark plugs. Where else do you think the energy is coming from, thin air?
[QUOTE=FordLord;18453470]The generator does produce more energy than what the motor is using because of the gear ratios. If it was a 1:1 ratio, it would be producing only enough for the motor. But at a 1:2 ratio, it will produce more than what the motor needs.
Are you guys brits or something? The picture shows an alternator, but everyone is calling it a generator.[/QUOTE]
The post above mine explains what's wrong with this statement. Good luck breaking the first law of thermodynamics.
[editline]01:36PM[/editline]
You know, if you spent more than two seconds thinking about this you'd realize that if you could get more energy out of an alternator than the motor supplies then everything in the world would be powered with this kind of setup. Who needs gasoline, coal, nuclear power, wind power etc when you have perpetual motion?
[QUOTE=FordLord;18453470]If it was a 1:1 ratio, it would be producing only enough for the motor. But at a 1:2 ratio, it will produce more than what the motor needs.[/QUOTE]
I bet you also think that torque is comparable between different vehicles and that the power output (Horse Power) is an entirely useless value. Am I right ?
It took me a while to realize what you meant by a "fag lighter" you crazy brit. :rolleye:
Get some car batteries buy a good inverter that can go direct to the batteries. Also diagram would not work there is no 100% tranfer of energy I bet I've been ninja'd just don't have time ot read and wanted to drop a suggestion.
And really most inverters max out 400 watts. Thats a pretty badass one if it goes 600-750.
[QUOTE=FordLord;18453470]You really don't know much about gasoline engines, do you? When you start a gasoline engine, the battery turns the starter motor, provides the initial spark from the spark plugs, then it gives the initial charge to the alternator which is how the battery doesn't go dead. Small engines use a pull starter because they don't need a battery. They still have alternators to produce enough electricity to fire the spark plugs.[/QUOTE]
Actually, you're the one that knows nothing about engines. Small engines don't have alternators, they have magnetos, which create tension (high voltage) when turned by the crank shaft. Piston aircraft usually have two magnetos for redundancy.
[QUOTE=FordLord;18453470]The generator does produce more energy than what the motor is using because of the gear ratios. If it was a 1:1 ratio, it would be producing only enough for the motor. But at a 1:2 ratio, it will produce more than what the motor needs.
Are you guys brits or something? The picture shows an alternator, but everyone is calling it a generator.[/QUOTE]
You seem to think that you can get more energy on the output side than is being fed by the input side. If the engine that's turning the generator motor can produce 90 kW, you're only going to get 90 kW in power out of the terminals on the generator side (or less due to friction and heat). Gearing the engine in a 2:1 ratio to the generator motor isn't going to give you 180 kW, but more likely probably burn the motor out from a speed overload.
[QUOTE=BmB;18388717]I think thermodynamics is quite safe here since I imagine a generator would need fuel to run.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm:
Is the OP trying to make free energy?
Zoo: Yes.
If you want free energy, try building a plasma fusion reactor. It's a tad bit more complex but it might work if you tweak it right.
That's not free energy, it would still require fuel in the form of hydrogen or whatever.
Plus most fusion reactions require roughly the same energy (usually a little more) they create to maintain the reaction, so you get nothing out of it.
Nuclear fusion is not yet a viable source of energy. Currently they're pretty much just hydrogen guzzling, helium producing heaters.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;18447127]Not to mention the natural magnetic field created by the electric current in the generator will slightly reduce the effects of the magnetic field, equalizing the flux. These natural "equalizers" in physics make it impossible to make things 100% "ideal" conditions, and there's nothing we can do about it.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but as far as I can tell you just paraphrased what I said :/
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