My Dad Thinks Dell is Reasonable...any Rebuttles? - Hardware & Software

[QUOTE=Unreliable;20281430]Raid array for backing up software, he can't tell the difference, plus it's safe and he won't lose anything. Here, I made this build for someone at a car forum, their PC section was dead and idiotic (suggesting 4GB DDR3 2x2gb for an i7 920) Anyway: [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215&cm_re=intel_i5-_-19-115-215-_-Product]The Intel i5 - $199[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193&cm_re=DDR3-_-20-231-193-_-Product]4GB DDR3 Dual Channel RAM - $105[/url][url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102858]Sapphire HD 5770 1GB - $160[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171038]Coolermaster eXtreme Power 550w Power Supply - $65[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130253&cm_re=p55-_-13-130-253-_-Product]MSI P55 M-ATX Motherboard - $99[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136284]Western Digital Black 1TB 7200RPM 32MB Cache - $99[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Shopping/ShoppingItem.aspx?ItemList=N82E16827135204]Asus DVD/CD R-+RW Combo Drive - $25[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137&Tpk=RC-690]Coolermaster RC-690 Case - $80[/url] [b]Total: 834.92[/b][/QUOTE] That's the GFX card I have... IMO that might be overkill for a computer not running games. I would go with something cheaper and use the money on a BDD.

Point 3: If there is a problem with your custom computer you take out the broken part and use the lifetime warranty (most of my pc is lifetime).

You don't want a Dell because it isn't a beast gaming rig.

When Dell decides to build a new system, they put out a bid on the market for the specs they want. generally whoever bids the lowest gets the contract, which means you get generally bottom of the barrel shit components. Their motherboards are generally either noname boards or boards from shady manufacturers like ECS or PCChips that are further stripped down to reduce cost. The end result is this unreliable clusterfuck that could die at any time with little warning, though the first thing to go are usually the capacitors, followed by everything else. I was on a contract in 2007 to replace 2,500 motherboards in Dell machines because of the exploding / leaking caps problem, but often found other serious problems with them that we couldn't fix due to lack of parts.

I was planning on building my brother a gaming PC, cheaply. But then, suddenly my grandfather (he for some reason didn't like my plan) got him a Dell "Gaming" computer with a GT 220, making it impossible for my brother to play higher end games... It costed about 900$.

Dells are good enough. Don't get them if you want to game though.

As long as you don't get a Mac.

Sounds like he has never had to take apart an out-of-warranty Dell to fix it. Had to fix a Dimension 9100. It died after 4 years of use, had a 3 year warranty. The motherboard died, and since they use a proprietary motherboard form factor, replacing the motherboard would cost ~$90 on eBay, ~$180 on the official website. To use a different motherboard would require $40 for a new motherboard (case limits to micro ATX if you don't use Dell's "ATX"), anywhere from $10-$30 for a new heatsink (Dell's heatsink is fitted to the rest of the chassis), an hour of tinkering with the multimeter to figure out the proprietary connections for the power switch and LED lights on the front panel, $30 ordering parts in bulk to solder connectors to fit the custom front panel connectors (1-2 hours of soldering for the inexperienced), and a couple hours to figure out how the hell to take the thing apart, clean, and rebuild it since they use so much unnecessary + extra crap to build the machine. Did I mention that you have to remove the CPU heatsink to access the front panel connectors? Working on a Dell from 2006 is not for a first-timer - these machines are designed to be built quickly and shipped safely, not to be maintained as a long-term investment. So, $70 with 3-6 hours of labor to fix, or $90 for used motherboard replacement that will probably die in a few years, or $180 for a new motherboard direct from Dell that would probably die in a few years as well. I chose the fourth option: blow $140 on a chassis, power supply, motherboard, and CPU and rebuild the damn thing; essentially making it a custom computer. Out of the 4 prebuilt machines my family has had in the past with, two of the machines' motherboards have fried. Now, we run with 4 custom machines and 1 freebie prebuilt in the downstairs closet. To top it all off, the total sum of the amount of money spent on all 4 of those custom machines is less than that of the cheapest prebuilt we have purchased new. I have never purchased a PC component over $5 that doesn't have a 1 year warranty. On top of that, keep in mind that most PC components die within the first year or after several years have passed, not usually any time in between that. An exception, though, is prebuilt computer motherboards - those seem to die 4 years (1 year after Dell's extended warranty ends) after purchase for me. As for software, Dell adds the $300 for your Microsoft Office Professional to the price, whether you know about it or not. Notice how OEMs typically don't itemize the worth of each component (motherboard, processor, etc.) because they don't want to put "Warehouse, assembly, and labor - $x" on the invoice. Also, if you want a quiet computer: Sleeve bearing fans and aftermarket CPU heatsinks. Challenge his use of tech support: Can he ask you a question that you can't formulate the solution to in one hour?

[QUOTE=Unreliable;20281430]Raid array for backing up software, he can't tell the difference, plus it's safe and he won't lose anything. Here, I made this build for someone at a car forum, their PC section was dead and idiotic (suggesting 4GB DDR3 2x2gb for an i7 920) Anyway: [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215&cm_re=intel_i5-_-19-115-215-_-Product]The Intel i5 - $199[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193&cm_re=DDR3-_-20-231-193-_-Product]4GB DDR3 Dual Channel RAM - $105[/url][url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102858]Sapphire HD 5770 1GB - $160[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171038]Coolermaster eXtreme Power 550w Power Supply - $65[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130253&cm_re=p55-_-13-130-253-_-Product]MSI P55 M-ATX Motherboard - $99[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136284]Western Digital Black 1TB 7200RPM 32MB Cache - $99[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Shopping/ShoppingItem.aspx?ItemList=N82E16827135204]Asus DVD/CD R-+RW Combo Drive - $25[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137&Tpk=RC-690]Coolermaster RC-690 Case - $80[/url] [b]Total: 834.92[/b][/QUOTE] Why does it have a graphic card? That's p' retarded. And an i5 is total overkill. [B]Edit:[/B] And 4gigs of [I]DDR3[/I] ram. What's the most gaming intense he's gonna do? Play chess? Obviously if he wants a Dell, he isn't going for gaming.

DDR3 RAM is of similar price to DDR2 at the minute. There's no real reason not to go with it.

My dad paid £70 for 2GB of laptop ram from dell...It really pissed me off. I could have got him a new CPU, RAM and Hard drive for that price for his Laptop.

[QUOTE=Ferret++;20284552]My dad paid £70 for 2GB of laptop ram from dell...It really pissed me off. I could have got him a new CPU, RAM and Hard drive for that price for his Laptop.[/QUOTE] £70 for a laptop doesn't seems like much to me. [B]Edit:[/B] Wait what? £70 for the ram alone? What the christ that's outrageous prices.

[QUOTE=Night-Eagle;20283758]Sounds like he has never had to take apart an out-of-warranty Dell to fix it. Had to fix a Dimension 9100. It died after 4 years of use, had a 3 year warranty. The motherboard died, and since they use a proprietary motherboard form factor, replacing the motherboard would cost ~$90 on eBay, ~$180 on the official website. To use a different motherboard would require $40 for a new motherboard (case limits to micro ATX if you don't use Dell's "ATX"), anywhere from $10-$30 for a new heatsink (Dell's heatsink is fitted to the rest of the chassis), an hour of tinkering with the multimeter to figure out the proprietary connections for the power switch and LED lights on the front panel, $30 ordering parts in bulk to solder connectors to fit the custom front panel connectors (1-2 hours of soldering for the inexperienced), and a couple hours to figure out how the hell to take the thing apart, clean, and rebuild it since they use so much unnecessary + extra crap to build the machine. Did I mention that you have to remove the CPU heatsink to access the front panel connectors? Working on a Dell from 2006 is not for a first-timer - these machines are designed to be built quickly and shipped safely, not to be maintained as a long-term investment. So, $70 with 3-6 hours of labor to fix, or $90 for used motherboard replacement that will probably die in a few years, or $180 for a new motherboard direct from Dell that would probably die in a few years as well. I chose the fourth option: blow $140 on a chassis, power supply, motherboard, and CPU and rebuild the damn thing; essentially making it a custom computer. Out of the 4 prebuilt machines my family has had in the past with, two of the machines' motherboards have fried. Now, we run with 4 custom machines and 1 freebie prebuilt in the downstairs closet. To top it all off, the total sum of the amount of money spent on all 4 of those custom machines is less than that of the cheapest prebuilt we have purchased new. I have never purchased a PC component over $5 that doesn't have a 1 year warranty. On top of that, keep in mind that most PC components die within the first year or after several years have passed, not usually any time in between that. An exception, though, is prebuilt computer motherboards - those seem to die 4 years (1 year after Dell's extended warranty ends) after purchase for me. As for software, Dell adds the $300 for your Microsoft Office Professional to the price, whether you know about it or not. Notice how OEMs typically don't itemize the worth of each component (motherboard, processor, etc.) because they don't want to put "Warehouse, assembly, and labor - $x" on the invoice. Also, if you want a quiet computer: Sleeve bearing fans and aftermarket CPU heatsinks. Challenge his use of tech support: Can he ask you a question that you can't formulate the solution to in one hour?[/QUOTE] i've convinced him thanks to you guys to get a custom build! :D. i already have a thread up in the PC Building section [QUOTE=Tools;20284405]Why does it have a graphic card? That's p' retarded. And an i5 is total overkill. [B]Edit:[/B] And 4gigs of [I]DDR3[/I] ram. What's the most gaming intense he's gonna do? Play chess? Obviously if he wants a Dell, he isn't going for gaming.[/QUOTE] if you think you know what he needs, maybe you can put one together on newegg for me? <3

Dells are good office PCs. They're just shitty for anything else.

They are actually nice in a work enviroment, they are useless at home, but when you have 350 seats and you don't want to be wasting time configuring 350 pc's building them and managing all those parts dells warreties and work out of the box (usually) is very nice to have.

[QUOTE=bohb;20283006]When Dell decides to build a new system, they put out a bid on the market for the specs they want. generally whoever bids the lowest gets the contract, which means you get generally bottom of the barrel shit components. Their motherboards are generally either noname boards or boards from shady manufacturers like ECS or PCChips that are further stripped down to reduce cost. The end result is this unreliable clusterfuck that could die at any time with little warning, though the first thing to go are usually the capacitors, followed by everything else. I was on a contract in 2007 to replace 2,500 motherboards in Dell machines because of the exploding / leaking caps problem, but often found other serious problems with them that we couldn't fix due to lack of parts.[/QUOTE] being a dell tech, this is actually a VERY common problem still. Well okay maybe caps dont leak or explode as often as you would think. It did happen fairly often a few years back. Now, we get motherboards that are just badly built. Alot of the assembly had issues with the assemblers not putting the cables in all the way, or fans not being fastened down properly etc. I can see them bidding a contract out for hardware. And usually since its in bulk, they get a pretty good deal on it. Look at Foxconn (Lenovo/Mac, Typically). Well macs you might be a far shot off from getting a good deal on it, but still.. they're made as cheap as a pet rock.

[B]* tech support ("you call, they are there. they will walk you through anything")[/B] sure there's tech support if by tech support you mean an indian guy named "david" or "jason" that you have to wait 3 hours to talk to and who will probably just tell you to unplug the computer and plug it in assuming your retarded and haven't done that already [B]* software ("their pre-builts come with stuff like Microsoft Office")[/B] yup they do you know how much you paid for that? probably 100+ you know how much they paid? 10$ for a VLK [B] * warranty ("3-year-extended with Dell, what happens when something goes wrong with a custom built?")[/B] probably 75% they'll attribute to "customer misuse" the other 25% they do cover is a bitch to actually get em to admit [B] * "never had a problem with Dell. i've owned 6 dell pc's with no problem and when I get it I don't have to put it together, it already works."[/B] it takes 2-3 hours it's easier than putting together anything from ikea and when your done you'll have something thats twice as fast for the same or less than a prebuilt [b]* "their higher end systems seem really well built and quiet" (he wants a quiet computer)[/B] the higher end ones are over engineered pieces of plastic that use more proprietary connectors than the mid to low offerings and that's a feat. and sure they're quiet because they use lower powered fans that in turn make the computer run hotter than it should be. there doing quiet wrong if you do it right it should run quiet while still keeping cool not to mention the fact that if you want to upgrade you pretty much have to buy a new computer thanks to all the proprietary connectors they use

My biggest beef with Dell is that they have no idea what ram is. I mean you spend 800$ on a pc with them and they give you like 512mb of ram, wtf! But ya, if you know how to build a pc (not hard :\) then you shouldn't really be buying a prebuilt anyways.

[QUOTE=high;20300830]My biggest beef with Dell is that they have no idea what ram is. I mean you spend 800$ on a pc with them and they give you like 512mb of ram, wtf![/QUOTE] more like completely the opposite "hey so this computer costs £2000 BUT IT HAZ 16 GIGABYTES OF DEE DEE ARR THREE RAM"

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;20297673]being a dell tech, this is actually a VERY common problem still. Well okay maybe caps dont leak or explode as often as you would think. It did happen fairly often a few years back. Now, we get motherboards that are just badly built. Alot of the assembly had issues with the assemblers not putting the cables in all the way, or fans not being fastened down properly etc. I can see them bidding a contract out for hardware. And usually since its in bulk, they get a pretty good deal on it. Look at Foxconn (Lenovo/Mac, Typically). Well macs you might be a far shot off from getting a good deal on it, but still.. they're made as cheap as a pet rock.[/QUOTE] I haven't worked on Dell contracts in over 3 years (apparently I'm overqualified for the jobs.) But if they're still pumping out machines with shit capacitors on them, they're likely to end up in a whole another round of class action lawsuits. I've personally been given machines that people don't want anymore because they "crashed often" or were "unstable" and it turned out they had the same shitty capacitors that the Dell machines used. I did an experiment on one of the older boards I received to see if I could recap the board, and it worked. There are recapping sites out there that charge from between $50 and $150 to do it, but you can order everything you need from [url]www.mouser.com[/url] for between $20 and $40 (often much better caps than what these services use) and do it yourself in a few hours time. There's nothing wrong with putting a contract out to bid, but don't use the cheapest and shadiest one out there to save a few pennies.

[QUOTE=Unreliable;20281430]Raid array for backing up software, he can't tell the difference, plus it's safe and he won't lose anything. Here, I made this build for someone at a car forum, their PC section was dead and idiotic (suggesting 4GB DDR3 2x2gb for an i7 920) Anyway: [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215&cm_re=intel_i5-_-19-115-215-_-Product]The Intel i5 - $199[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193&cm_re=DDR3-_-20-231-193-_-Product]4GB DDR3 Dual Channel RAM - $105[/url][url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102858]Sapphire HD 5770 1GB - $160[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171038]Coolermaster eXtreme Power 550w Power Supply - $65[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130253&cm_re=p55-_-13-130-253-_-Product]MSI P55 M-ATX Motherboard - $99[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136284]Western Digital Black 1TB 7200RPM 32MB Cache - $99[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Shopping/ShoppingItem.aspx?ItemList=N82E16827135204]Asus DVD/CD R-+RW Combo Drive - $25[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137&Tpk=RC-690]Coolermaster RC-690 Case - $80[/url] [b]Total: 834.92[/b][/QUOTE] Bit overkill GPU and CPU?

[QUOTE=thf;20305453]Bit overkill GPU and CPU?[/QUOTE] yea that's what I am thinking now as well. i made a thread in the PC Building section if you wanna give it a go

[QUOTE=ForTehWolf...2!;20281507]the last thing I care about is its ram....[/QUOTE] Let me understand this. You wouldn't care if there were only 512 MBs of RAM and you knew you were incapable of running gmod games?! That's very droll. One more thing. What's that thread called Armyis1337?

[QUOTE=The Riddler;20308729]Let me understand this. You wouldn't care if there were only 512 MBs of RAM and you knew you were incapable of running gmod games?! That's very droll. One more thing. What's that thread called Armyis1337?[/QUOTE] Here you are: [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=896825[/url]

Wow this thread is surprisingly more pro dell than I thought it would be.

[QUOTE=winsanity;20323811]Wow this thread is surprisingly more pro dell than I thought it would be.[/QUOTE] Dell makes good computers and they have good tech support, it's just that they charge out the ass for it. If his dad doesn't see it that way, I can't stop him from spending his money in the wrong place. I just offered him suggestions to make his dad happy without completely wasting his money.

I have Dells and have an XPS 420 still and it's perfectly fine. I used customer service chat multiple times and they actually sent me things I requested within a few days without question. Everything is of great quality but the only problem is the upgrading imo. The 420 has a bad mobo imo.

I got a XPS 720 about 2 years ago, when I didn't know too much about computer hardware. I still have the Dell and I'm using it as my primary rig, but now I've learned more about hardware and I've swapped the CPU, graphics card, DVD drive, and added a second hard drive. For some reason I absolutely love the case design and I can't get myself to let it go, although I probably will end up letting it go when I upgrade next (BTX mobo, custom PSU size, can't upgrade past a C1 stepping Q9550, only have 2 6-pin PCI-e power plugs, etc.) Anyways, on topic - use Facepunch as your customer service, pay less for the OS and software with student licenses, and end up with a better rig for less.

[QUOTE=robmaister12;20334944]I got a XPS 720 about 2 years ago, when I didn't know too much about computer hardware. I still have the Dell and I'm using it as my primary rig, but now I've learned more about hardware and I've swapped the CPU, graphics card, DVD drive, and added a second hard drive. For some reason I absolutely love the case design and I can't get myself to let it go, although I probably will end up letting it go when I upgrade next (BTX mobo, custom PSU size, can't upgrade past a C1 stepping Q9550, only have 2 6-pin PCI-e power plugs, etc.) Anyways, on topic - use Facepunch as your customer service, pay less for the OS and software with student licenses, and end up with a better rig for less.[/QUOTE] I, personally, would use Facepunch and the internet in general as tech support, but my dad likes hands-on support for some reason. Also, I'm not in university YET so I can't get any software discounts.

[QUOTE=Armyis1337;20334998]I, personally, would use Facepunch and the internet in general as tech support, but my dad likes hands-on support for some reason. Also, I'm not in university YET so I can't get any software discounts.[/QUOTE] I'm still in high school, but I've gotten Maya and Photoshop with student discounts, some websites accept a scanned picture of a high school ID, I know [url=http://www.studica.com/]Studica[/url] does. You can get the Office '07 Professional suite for ~$150