Reno Air Race: P-51 crashes into stands, Fatalities confirmed, injuries unknown
88 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Shibbey;32333526]Wish I was old enough/rich enough to get a pilot licence.[/QUOTE]
It's a shame it costs as much as a college degree.
[editline]17th September 2011[/editline]
Wow this video, you can see the pilot being thrown from the cockpit at 6 seconds, you can see his parachute deploying behind him.
[url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ffe_1316240833[/url]
[QUOTE=Shibbey;32333230]There's still the other 10%, and think about it. To be able to compete in this sort of, obviously extremely difficult, sport, you'd have to be pretty damn skilled. My money is on mechanical failure.[/QUOTE]
You have to be pretty skilled to pilot a jet fighter as well, but the Sknyliv airshow disaster was deemed pilot error.
[url="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a40_1316247132"]Here's the aftermath of the crash. NSFL[/url]
[editline]17th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Watevaman;32338471]You have to be pretty skilled to pilot a jet fighter as well, but the Sknyliv airshow disaster was deemed pilot error.[/QUOTE]
The video and several pictures show either the elevator or the elevator trim tab tearing off.
[quote]The plane, flown by a 74-year-old veteran Hollywood stunt pilot,[/quote
Okay, he's experienced but was there really nobody who thought that having somebody of that age fly a plane?
Saying 50 injured doesn't begin to tell the whole story. People missing legs and arms are going to have their lives changed forever...and here's Susie with the weather.
I love how people re upload these videos on youtube and enable ads on them, guess getting revenue off of people dying is the way to go.
[QUOTE=Nyaos;32337990]It's a shame it costs as much as a college degree.[/QUOTE]
Actually it costs a bit less than a year at college, depending on where you are. Where I am (North NJ) it's around $9,000 depending on which school.
[QUOTE=Nyaos;32332066][img]http://i.imgur.com/zFHcm.jpg[/img]
Fucking horrible.[/QUOTE]
It looks like the tailwheel is down.
Some sort of hydraulic failure? The original P-51s had mechanical controls, but who knows what this thing had. Hydraulic controls could be useful at the speeds they travel at in those races...
From the videos I saw, it looks like the plane went up first, then dived down. None of the other planes made a similar climb up.
So I'm guessing whatever caused it to go up was responsible for the crash, not necessarily the dive at the end.
Could it be that the tail wheel caused drag and the pilot tried to climb to compensate, then stalled, then crashed?
[QUOTE=Ridge;32339823]It looks like the tailwheel is down.
Some sort of hydraulic failure? The original P-51s had mechanical controls, but who knows what this thing had. Hydraulic controls could be useful at the speeds they travel at in those races...[/QUOTE]
From the other pictures I've seen it looks like he always has that tail wheel down, I don't know if that's a feature of just his plane or P51s in general.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;32340098]From the videos I saw, it looks like the plane went up first, then dived down. None of the other planes made a similar climb up.
So I'm guessing whatever caused it to go up was responsible for the crash, not necessarily the dive at the end.
Could it be that the tail wheel caused drag and the pilot tried to climb to compensate, then stalled, then crashed?[/QUOTE] The tail wheel does not cause drag enough for that to happen. Believe me, I fly an ACA Super Decathlon and it is nowhere near as high performance as a P-51 Mustang. The OP updated the article which says that it might have been the trim tab flying off, and it does look like a somewhat likely explanation. If you are pulling hard on the stick and all of a sudden all of the trim you set on the plane goes away in an instant, it can really screw with your flying. Also, I don't think he stalled. It was full power into the ground. He went up, overcompensated, and was too low to the ground to pull out of his dive.
[QUOTE=jordguitar;32333233]
You would be surprised how if one small part fails it fucks over everything else. Doing maneuvers mid air puts alot of strain on the air frame.[/QUOTE]
I'm working on my CPL I know how these things work. Those airplanes are taken apart, examined and reassembled all the time. A loose screw is not going to cause this.
[QUOTE=Nyaos;32340370]From the other pictures I've seen it looks like he always has that tail wheel down, I don't know if that's a feature of just his plane or P51s in general.[/QUOTE]
Not down in this photo.
[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/50428479@N06/5218812876/lightbox/[/url]
[quote]A plane crashed during an air show in Martinsburg, W. Va. No injuries in the crowd are being reported.
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A T-28 aircraft crashed at about 2:30 p.m. during an acrobatic demonstration at the 2011 Thunder Over the Blue Ridge Open House & Air Show at the 167th Airlift Wing in Martinsburg.
Lt. Nate Mueller a spokesperson for the 167th Airlift Wing tells ABC7 the crash involved a T-28 trainer aircraft.
The Berkeley County Sheriff's Department confirms they are on the scene.
But neither spokesperson confirmed any details of the crash, including injuries.[/quote]
Again!?
[url=http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/09/plane-crashes-during-air-show-in-w-va--66685.html]Source[/url]
[editline]17th September 2011[/editline]
Also, AP reporting now that 9 people are dead in the Reno crash.
Ugh, wasn't it just last month that there were 3 plane crashes at separate airshows over a single weekend?
[img]http://hosted.ap.org/photos/C/c1105d99-3f57-4a42-b2db-0921414a0a8d-big.jpg[/img]
From the W.V. crash.
Off topic, theres a PBY catalina in a private hangar down in Dublin... Would love to see it :9
edit:
woops, forgot this thread was about people who died,
it would be kind of heartless if I didn't try to delete it, I dont know how
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhBsU3vG15w[/media]
Video of the W.V. Crash.
[QUOTE=Desolategrunt;32329993]What a horrible accident, the Plane was supposed to save American lives not take them[/QUOTE]
They were supposed to save them from the FlaK-88 guns of Nazi Germany.
Not save them while racing them 60 years later.
[QUOTE=God of Ashes;32342389]I'm working on my CPL I know how these things work. Those airplanes are taken apart, examined and reassembled all the time. A loose screw is not going to cause this.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, not to mention the stricter codes for maintenance and what not placed on them.
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3664177/t1main.reno.stabilizer.kolo.jpg[/img]
[quote]National Transportation Safety Board member Mark Rosekind said investigators are looking at whether the plane's apparently damaged elevator trim tab -- whose breaking apart was captured in a photograph -- played a role in the nosedive crash. Authorities do not know why the aircraft went down.[/quote]
[editline]17th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=God of Ashes;32342389]I'm working on my CPL I know how these things work. Those airplanes are taken apart, examined and reassembled all the time. A loose screw is not going to cause this.[/QUOTE]
hi i was using it as a example.
do they know if the broken tab stayed on the plane, or if it separated after the photo?
If it stayed on, I'd imagine the drag and uneven application of force from it could cause the plane to roll out of control.
[QUOTE=Ridge;32345652]do they know if the broken tab stayed on the plane, or if it separated after the photo?
If it stayed on, I'd imagine the drag and uneven application of force from it could cause the plane to roll out of control.[/QUOTE]
No clue they would have to start looking at extremely blurry video to figure that out or find it a bit away from the actual crash site.
Sorry to bump this after a week, but I just found out recently that this guy was piloting his P-51 at an airshow I was at not long ago. He was in the WWII reenactments, flying attack runs on the Germans. Really weird. Guy in my class actually met and talked to him after the show, since he lives right next to where they do it and is big into aviation.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];32474518']Sorry to bump this after a week, but I just found out recently that this guy was piloting his P-51 at an airshow I was at not long ago. He was in the WWII reenactments, flying attack runs on the Germans. Really weird. Guy in my class actually met and talked to him after the show, since he lives right next to where they do it and is big into aviation.[/QUOTE]
Which airshow? There's one not too far from me that's like that.
[QUOTE=Dacheet;32474960]Which airshow? There's one not too far from me that's like that.[/QUOTE]
Thunder Over Michigan, near Detroit.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];32474518']Sorry to bump this after a week, but I just found out recently that this guy was piloting his P-51 at an airshow I was at not long ago. He was in the WWII reenactments, flying attack runs on the Germans. Really weird. Guy in my class actually met and talked to him after the show, since he lives right next to where they do it and is big into aviation.[/QUOTE]
Not in the same plane?
Preliminary report:
[quote]NTSB Identification: WPR11MA454
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Friday, September 16, 2011 in Reno, NV
Aircraft: NORTH AMERICAN/AERO CLASSICS P-51D, registration: N79111
Injuries: 11 Fatal,66 Serious.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On September 16, 2011, about 1626 Pacific daylight time, an experimental North America P-51D, N79111, impacted terrain following a loss of control while maneuvering at Reno Stead Airport, Reno, Nevada. The airplane was registered to Aero-Trans Corp, Ocala, Florida, and operated by the pilot as Race 177 under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The commercial pilot sustained fatal injuries; the airplane sustained substantial damage. Casualties on the ground included 10 fatalities and 74 injured. As of the time of this preliminary report, eight of the injured remain hospitalized, some in critical condition. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident, and no flight plan had been filed for the local air race flight, which departed from Reno Stead Airport about 10 minutes before the accident.
The airplane was participating in the Reno National Championship Air Races in the last event of the day. The airplane had completed several laps and was in a steep left turn towards the home pylon when, according to photographic evidence, the airplane suddenly banked momentarily to the left before banking to the right, turning away from the race course, and pitching to a steep nose-high attitude. Witnesses reported and photographic evidence indicates that a piece of the airframe separated during these maneuvers. After roll and pitch variations, the airplane descended in an extremely nose-low attitude and collided with the ground in the box seat area near the center of the grandstand seating area.
Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and the Federal Aviation Administration examined the wreckage on site. They documented the debris field and identified various components of the airplane’s control system and control surfaces. The wreckage was removed to a secure storage facility for detailed examination at a later date.
The airplane’s ground crew noted that the airplane had a telemetry system that broadcast data to a ground station as well as recorded it to a box on board the airplane. The crew provided the ground station telemetry data, which includes engine parameters and global positioning satellite system data to the NTSB for analysis. The onboard data box, which sustained crush damage, was sent to the NTSB’s Vehicle Recorder laboratory for examination. Investigators recovered pieces of a camera housing and multiple detached memory cards from the airplane’s onboard camera that were in the debris field. The memory cards and numerous still and video image recordings were also sent to the Vehicle Recorders laboratory for evaluation.
The Federal Aviation Administration and the Reno Air Race Association are parties to the investigation.[/quote]
Seems that that picture where the elevator was falling off is what happened.
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