The OP's article never even said anything about barbie being racist it just said that the image of beauty represented by Barbie has it's roots in racist ideas. Why are arguing about this?
[QUOTE=McNab;33299730]People are offended by racism waaaaaaaaaaaay to easily.[/QUOTE]
I hope you're part of an oppressed or formerly oppressed social minority, because otherwise I'm going to have to disagree strongly. I'm Jewish - not even religious, just a secular Jew- and I still get gip from people. My Jewish friend was beaten up frequently in school because of his heritage. It's equivalent to taking someone's money and not giving it back, then making fun of them later. I'm sorry if it's a little difficult to get over people in your direct family suffering at the hands of discrimination, while people still mock you and tell you you're 'overreacting' when there is still a clear and defined gap between social groups.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;33299745]No I said as racist as...
But regardless, it still depicts America-as-the-future, and humanity as a white monoculture.[/QUOTE]
What does that even mean?
[QUOTE=Mingebox;33299898]What does that even mean?[/QUOTE]
They imagine a future where humanity is white and western looking/acting.
Not taking into account that the majority of humanity is not.
It's not deliberate or overt. More of a subconsciousness thing.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;33300027]They imagine a future where humanity is white and western looking/acting.
Not taking into account that the majority of humanity is not.
It's not deliberate or overt. More of a subconsciousness thing.[/QUOTE]
plus the entire planet of Klingon is almost exclusively shown as being aggressive and primitive compared to the refined Vulcans. Although Star Trek is really all about addressing cultural differences and philosophical/ethical questions, so that was probably more intended as a way of addressing man's desire to destroy in comparison to our desire for logic
[QUOTE=NoDachi;33300027]They imagine a future where humanity is white and western looking/acting.
Not taking into account that the majority of humanity is not.
It's not deliberate or overt. More of a subconsciousness thing.[/QUOTE]
Barbie is a doll created in 1959 by a white business woman to entertain white girls, and the model used for the creation of the doll was another white doll which was German.
No wonder why the doll is white, what's your point ?
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300044]plus the entire planet of Klingon is almost exclusively shown as being aggressive and primitive compared to the refined Vulcans. Although Star Trek is really all about addressing cultural differences and philosophical/ethical questions, so that was probably more intended as a way of addressing man's desire to destroy in comparison to our desire for logic[/QUOTE]
The klingons were apparently allegorising the Soviet Union.
[editline]16th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;33300057]Barbie is a doll created in 1959 by a white business woman to entertain white girls, and the model used for the creation of the doll was another white doll which was German.
No wonder why the doll is white, what's your point ?[/QUOTE]
My point is this style of racism is totally subversive and widespread.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;33300069]The klingons were apparently allegorising the Soviet Union.
[editline]16th November 2011[/editline]
.[/QUOTE]
I did not know that, that's really interesting
[QUOTE=NoDachi;33300069]My point is this style of racism is totally subversive and widespread.[/QUOTE]
But why is it Racism, I don't get it, why do you see discrimination everywhere ?
If they wrote on the package "the white doll every white girls love, you coal-skinned bitches can go buy a rag and clean the floor", yeah, that would be racist, but fuck, it's just a white doll, what's racist in that ?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;33300106]But why is it Racism, I don't get it, why do you see discrimination everywhere ?
If they wrote on the package "the white doll every white girls love, you coal-skinned bitches can go buy a rag and clean the floor", yeah, that would be racist, but fuck, it's just a white doll, what's racist in that ?[/QUOTE]
Because have you ever thought about why white people like white dolls? Or why audiences like seeing their cultural egos rubbed?
The doll it self isn't racist.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300044]plus the entire planet of Klingon is almost exclusively shown as being aggressive and primitive compared to the refined Vulcans. Although Star Trek is really all about addressing cultural differences and philosophical/ethical questions, so that was probably more intended as a way of addressing man's desire to destroy in comparison to our desire for logic[/QUOTE]
The whole homogeneous culture thing is really just a Sci-Fi/Fantasy thing in general.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;33300069]
My point is this style of racism is totally subversive and widespread.[/QUOTE]
Except it's not even racism, it's just the subconscious reflection of ones culture into fiction, and the conscious attempt at creating a world that people can easily identify with.
I hate how black against whites ain't racism.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;33300057]Barbie is a doll created in 1959 by a white business woman to entertain white girls, and the model used for the creation of the doll was another white doll which was German.
No wonder why the doll is white, what's your point ?[/QUOTE]
just because something is established doesn't mean that it should be above criticism.
[editline]16th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=kimr120;33300289]I hate how black against whites ain't racism.[/QUOTE]
hey if you're just gonna emptily whine about something that isn't even true and you're not going to bother backing up then don't bother posting.
[editline]16th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;33300106]But why is it Racism, I don't get it, why do you see discrimination everywhere ?[/QUOTE]
because discrimination [i]is[/i] everywhere. you might not see it everywhere (because you're a white, [heterosexual?] male), but it's probably a lot more prevalent than you think,
Fuck sake, I've seen this thread ALL DAY and I've only now just realised that it says, "Barbies". The entire day I was reading it as, "Babies are racist" (which actually made sense to me, but I'm not gonna bother explaining that).
[QUOTE=kimr120;33300289]I hate how black against whites ain't racism.[/QUOTE]
Merriam-Webster's
Definition of RACISM
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination
okay so you're completely wrong
[QUOTE=kimr120;33300289]I hate how black against whites ain't racism.[/QUOTE]
Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Droves of white men slaughtered in as many imaginative ways as the human mind can conjure but it all goes to hell when a lone black/yellow person appears and gets killed off just the same as everyone else.
I'm kinda wondering if it hasn't already crossed the threshold of the whole issue? Why should blacks/yellows/anyone else get preferential treatment? I CALL RACISM!:downs:
Edit:
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300390]Merriam-Webster's
Definition of RACISM
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination
okay so you're completely wrong[/QUOTE]
Racism is brought up so often for issues so trivial they shouldn't even be noticed. Who cares if the black guy died first? By the end of the movie you'll probably, upon closer inspection, notice that a majority of the cast get killed off too. It's getting annoying.
I'm not claiming they are claiming to be superior, but they sure as hell are butthurt over it. More so than has been necessary. Doesn't apply to the sensible ones who understand the silliness of it all...
Racism is a problem, I won't disagree. But are the barbies really racist? I haven't seen any kids who have been given barbies to grow up to be racists. I don't think Behrang has a point - the monitor I'm looking at is currently producing white and blue light, that doesn't make it racist. It's trying to find meaning in something that wasn't intended to have any.
Also, I don't think we can do anything about racism. As long as people are different there will be discrimination. We can reduce its effects but to try to attain complete removal of racism... not possible, not without extreme measures.
[editline]16th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300390]Merriam-Webster's
Definition of RACISM
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination
okay so you're completely wrong[/QUOTE]
It's not the definition he's arguing, it's how when a white person says a black person is lazy it's racist, but when it's the other way around society turns a blind eye.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;33300420]Racism is a problem, I won't disagree. But are the barbies really racist? I haven't seen any kids who have been given barbies to grow up to be racists. I don't think Behrang has a point - the monitor I'm looking at is currently producing white and blue light, that doesn't make it racist. It's trying to find meaning in something that wasn't intended to have any.
Also, I don't think we can do anything about racism. As long as people are different there will be discrimination. We can reduce its effects but to try to attain complete removal of racism... not possible, not without extreme measures.[/QUOTE]
Since Barbie came out, it's been criticised as it portrays a list of characteristics that most young girls aspire towards. It's why girls starve themselves to be thin. And Barbie also happens to possess a lot of Aryan, Scandinavian attributes. Saul Williams, the poet, used bleaching cream throughout his teenage years because he was ashamed of being 'too black'. If a teenage male can feel that way, imagine how it can affect a young black girl.
it's just part of the problem
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300450]Since Barbie came out, it's been criticised as it portrays a list of characteristics that most young girls aspire towards. It's why girls starve themselves to be thin. And Barbie also happens to possess a lot of Aryan, Scandinavian attributes. Saul Williams, the poet, used bleaching cream throughout his teenage years because he was ashamed of being 'too black'. If a teenage male can feel that way, imagine how it can affect a young black girl.[/QUOTE]
I'll bet Mr. Williams had a lot of encounters with racism. There are many factors that cause people to try to do things like bleach their skin, I don't think that the fact that Barbies are characteristic of "white" traits doesn't mean that every black girl will look at it and go, "that's what I want to be."
Barbies being mostly based off one skin color isn't the best thing, but to make them "multicultural," then you change a product that had no real effect compared to say how white kids bully black kids in school.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300450]Since Barbie came out, it's been criticised as it portrays a list of characteristics that most young girls aspire towards. It's why girls starve themselves to be thin. And Barbie also happens to possess a lot of Aryan, Scandinavian attributes. Markarth the poet, used bleaching cream throughout his teenage years because he was ashamed of being 'too black'. If a teenage male can feel that way, imagine how it can affect a young black girl.
it's just part of the problem[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure racism alone won't drive someone to bleach their skin. He probably had some mental illness. And you're worried about the sight of a doll that looks like a oddly tall white person will drive black kids into a self-loathing frenzy, just get them one of Barbie's black friends.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;33300558]I'm pretty sure racism alone won't drive someone to bleach their skin. He probably had some mental illness. And you're worried about the sight of a doll that looks like a oddly tall white person will drive black kids into a self-loathing frenzy, just get them one of Barbie's black friends.[/QUOTE]
Nope Saul Williams is a mentally stable guy, it was actually black on black racism that drove him to it. And you're clearly blowing what I said out of proportion. All I'm saying is, it's clear in the modern day that the western world's stereotypical ideals of beauty are all caucasian traits, and I think that's wrong.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300579]Nope Saul Williams is a mentally stable guy, it was actually black on black racism that drove him to it. And you're clearly blowing what I said out of proportion. All I'm saying is, it's clear in the modern day that the western world's stereotypical ideals of beauty are all caucasian traits, and I think that's wrong.[/QUOTE]
The barbies aren't the problem, and as long as there is a majority something about them will be idolized.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;33300558]I'm pretty sure racism alone won't drive someone to bleach their skin. He probably had some mental illness. And you're worried about the sight of a doll that looks like a oddly tall white person will drive black kids into a self-loathing frenzy, just get them one of Barbie's black friends.[/QUOTE]
You're giving the heteronormative majority White society America is too much credit.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300579]Nope Saul Williams is a mentally stable guy, it was actually black on black racism that drove him to it. And you're clearly blowing what I said out of proportion. All I'm saying is, it's clear in the modern day that the western world's stereotypical ideals of beauty are all caucasian traits, and I think that's wrong.[/QUOTE]
How is that wrong, much less a tangible problem? Beauty is subjective, and if most people didn't consider one thing to be an ideal of beauty, it would be another.
Does he have a problem with blond haired people with blue eyes? Is he racist?
[QUOTE=just-a-boy;33300408]
Racism is brought up so often for issues so trivial they shouldn't even be noticed. Who cares if the black guy died first? By the end of the movie you'll probably, upon closer inspection, notice that a majority of the cast get killed off too. It's getting annoying.
I'm not claiming they are claiming to be superior, but they sure as hell are butthurt over it. More so than has been necessary. Doesn't apply to the sensible ones who understand the silliness of it all...[/QUOTE]
gee I wonder why they're butthurt. Call me a greedy money-hoarding Kike all you want but don't act shocked when I'm annoyed by it. Black guy dies first isn't even a legitimate racial argument, it's just a joke that they'd often kill off the token black character early in a movie. It's the same with the fact that pretty much every black comedy actor has been put in a role where he cross dresses, no one is seething with rage, it's just a funny observation.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;33300632]How is that wrong, much less a tangible problem? Beauty is subjective, and if most people didn't consider one thing to be an ideal of beauty, it would be another.[/QUOTE]
yeah, there's too much going on in someone's brain to really narrow it down to any one thing, and that makes it extremely difficult to get rid of racism
As awful as it sounds, if it's not racism, it's sexism, if it's not either, it's height or age, hair color, et cetera. As long as people are people groups will be discriminated.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300579]Nope Saul Williams is a mentally stable guy, it was actually black on black racism that drove him to it. And you're clearly blowing what I said out of proportion. All I'm saying is, it's clear in the modern day that the western world's stereotypical ideals of beauty are all caucasian traits, and I think that's wrong.[/QUOTE]
In primarily white countries that's probably the case, but I doubt the same applies to places like India, and any of the Asian or African countries.
I don't see why that's a problem anyway. In GENERAL people seem to be more attracted to their own race. I'm more attracted to white women than black, or Asian women, for example - that's not to say no black or Asian women are attractive, but on AVERAGE I'm more attracted to white women than any other race.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;33300632]How is that wrong, much less a tangible problem? Beauty is subjective, and if most people didn't consider one thing to be an ideal of beauty, it would be another.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about the concept of beauty put out there by the media, not individual people's ideals
[editline]16th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=sltungle;33300669]In primarily white countries that's probably the case, but I doubt the same applies to places like India, and any of the Asian or African countries.
I don't see why that's a problem anyway. In GENERAL people seem to be more attracted to their own race. I'm more attracted to white women than black, or Asian women, for example - that's not to say no black or Asian women are attractive, but on AVERAGE I'm more attracted to white women than any other race.[/QUOTE]
hence why I said Western world
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33300672]I'm talking about the concept of beauty put out there by the media, not individual people's ideals
[editline]16th November 2011[/editline]
hence why I said Western world[/QUOTE]
Well why is that shocking to you then? MOST people in western countries are white. People seem to find their own race more attractive than others. Ergo it makes sense that, at least in western countries people are going to find Caucasian features more attractive than any other racial features, and our ideals of beauty will reflect that fact.
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