• 91 year-old woman maybe to be charged for over 260,000 Auschwitz deaths
    89 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;48738862]Ex post facto, murdering millions of people isn't some legal gray area. She was a willing cog in a massive murder operation. She wasn't disjointed from what was going on, she was stationed in the camp and was an important part of communication.[/QUOTE] Excuse me good sir. But most of the staff in these camps where forced to work in these places
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;48739520]Your really underselling Hitler complicity in the Holocaust. Such a mass undertaking would have undoubtedly required Hitlers explicit. He didn't saw "Do something about those Jews Himmler." And just ignoring it for the rest of the war[/QUOTE] He only ever stated it publicly three times and Himmler only quotes him saying it once to him. Obviously Hitler was the gospel but he didn't organise every last detail. My point was that Himmler was acting under a single Fuhrerbefehl and was ensuring he held all the power by keeping everything on a need to know basis for his subordinates (who followed orders invariably without question, largely because they were never sure who the orders actually came from); Hitler himself didn't care about minutiae, he just wanted it done.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;48739630]He only ever stated it publicly three times and Himmler only quotes him saying it once to him. Obviously Hitler was the gospel but he didn't organise every last detail. My point was that Himmler was acting under a single Fuhrerbefehl and was ensuring he held all the power by keeping everything on a need to know basis for his subordinates (who followed orders invariably without question, largely because they were never sure who the orders actually came from); Hitler himself didn't care about minutiae, he just wanted it done.[/QUOTE] Doesn't really change the fact he gave to order, though, now does it?
[QUOTE=Incoming.;48740041]Doesn't really change the fact he gave to order, though, now does it?[/QUOTE] No, not at all, but that isn't the issue I'm trying to illustrate.
She isn't going to be sent to jail, the trail is a formality to right the wrongs of the past so people know helping a systematic killing of people is not okay. Think of it as a way to future-proof minds, how someone can always make a difference and speak out to things that happen like this. How someone can be the next Schlinder when they had the opporotunity but didn't. It's about teaching people to not be a cog in the machine of systematic killings, to rebel and speak out. Not participate in these things and actively try and stop them. She isn't going to jail, she isn't going to get a real punishment, but she is going to stand trial for her crimes as a way to teach people about the past and how they can impact the future.
[QUOTE=AsherRoth;48738960]There's pretty much conclusive evidence that it would have been actually impossible to exterminate 6 million Jews by the traditional narrative. Though instead of looking into this for yourself you are welcome to cover your ears and hum loudly[/QUOTE] I can't tell if this is a joke or if this guy was too embarrassed to use his main account
[QUOTE=dr.bean;48738974]Uhhh this was YEARS ago and they were just following orders, there's literally no reason and no good at all that would come from prosecuting them. It would just be a waste of resources and time.[/QUOTE] Perhaps you should read what you quoted.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;48739496]Nobody goes to jail in these casew, its purely for justice. Relax[/QUOTE] Did you even read the sources before making that post? [quote]It comes after Oskar Gröning, the “bookkeeper of Auschwitz”, was sentenced to four years in prison earlier this year for serving as an SS guard at the camp.[/quote] nah you're right NOBODY goes to prison!!
[QUOTE=CrucialSeBBi;48737983]I'm getting pretty sick of the fact that many facepunchers think being old excuses someone from a crime. It's kinda like excusing Saville from raping those women because "oh it happened 30-40 years ago just leave him alone". Sure going after book keepers and radio operators is kinda silly but my point still stands[/QUOTE] But, you know, I don't think it does. The point of jail in the first place isn't [I]punishment[/I]. It's to keep dangerous individuals from disrupting society. So yes, I do believe time can be a valid excuse to let someone be; it depends on the crime they committed. For example, there is no point to putting an 80 year old in jail for stealing a car 60 years ago. Even if it was something more serious; if a man shot and killed another back in 1935 when he was 20 would there really be a point to jailing that man now? He isn't likely to do it again at 100, and if he didn't kill anyone since he did a good job at doing what jail would have done anyway.
[QUOTE=AsherRoth;48738960]There's pretty much conclusive evidence that it would have been actually impossible to exterminate 6 million Jews by the traditional narrative. Though instead of looking into this for yourself you are welcome to cover your ears and hum loudly[/QUOTE] There nowhere to "look into this" that isn't sponsored by racists or fascists, and they aren't exactly a reliable source.
This is a bit of bullshit. They're going to die in a few years anyway so what's the point
[QUOTE=dr.bean;48738974]Uhhh this was YEARS ago and they were just following orders, there's literally no reason and no good at all that would come from prosecuting them. It would just be a waste of resources and time.[/QUOTE] "I was just following orders" has never been a valid excuse for war crimes (in general, not talking about this chick)
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;48743591]"I was just following orders" has never been a valid excuse for war crimes (in general, not talking about this chick)[/QUOTE] Well, it has. Prior to Nuremburg, it was entirely valid; the precedent was set at the nazi trials.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;48743605]Well, it has. Prior to Nuremburg, it was entirely valid; the precedent was set at the nazi trials.[/QUOTE] Sorry, was. Not for a very long time.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;48743610]Sorry, was. Not for a very long time.[/QUOTE] Actually for an incredibly long time. The idea of 'Don't shoot the messenger' is that very idea in its simplest terms.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48743640]Actually for an incredibly long time. The idea of 'Don't shoot the messenger' is that very idea in its simplest terms.[/QUOTE] Generally because war was seen to be a gallant thing - it was only so few that would violate the civility of war. Nazis and their subordinates were systematically killing people. That is a justification for a new set of rules in order to ensure that such a events and participation in those events never happen again.
How removed from the holocaust would one have to be before they could reasonably no longer be prosecuted? What about people delivering mail (I presume mail was sent to the officers)?
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;48738189]You're implying anti-semitism is something they don't want. If people stopped hating the Jews, how would they be able to pull the "remember the 60 million" card?[/QUOTE] Is this a joke?
[QUOTE=Swilly;48743640]Actually for an incredibly long time. The idea of 'Don't shoot the messenger' is that very idea in its simplest terms.[/QUOTE] Don't shoot the messenger is not applicable to war crimes. Carrying out an order is a conscious decision that the individual makes, this is why responsibility is on the individual for carrying out heinous orders. It also prevents people from using the "I WAS JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS" scapegoat.
[QUOTE=Explosions;48738279]I'm not sure if this is a joke or if you're actually worryingly deranged.[/QUOTE]you know this card gets pulled quite often. you're strawmanning syria into this and denying there's any sort of problem. just because it was an awful genocide doesn't mean there isn't any sort of bias to the winning side
[QUOTE=fudge blood;48737816]I wonder what the point is doing this to such old people? I guess they wanna make a statement saying "no matter how old you are, you're never too old to pay for crimes"?? Seems pointless and retarded at this point.[/QUOTE] Justice is blind. People think because it was a long time ago and because we're not personally affected by it, it's okay now
It makes me wonder if they will begin charging people for just happening to be in Germany during the Second World War.
[QUOTE=Kylel999;48744883]Justice is blind. People think because it was a long time ago and because we're not personally affected by it, it's okay now[/QUOTE] It wont serve people anything other than wasting time. Especially for being a radio operator. Does this mean the guy who cleaned the halls there is also to blame? Lol
I think people overestimate the role woman had in the third Reich. The women were taught to support the regime by having lots of Aryan children, and that was about it. Do people really think the SS managers and the guys who were shooting women and children would tell a woman that probably just keeps track of army movements how they herded children onto cattle cars and burned them alive today? I think not. If it's only a hearing to determine guilt then they shouldn't make it sound like a witch hunt and emphasize that they are just going to ask a few questions and call them back when they have a verification.
[QUOTE]Does this mean the guy who cleaned the halls there is also to blame? Lol[/QUOTE] Probably not if he was Jewish.
While we're at it, let's arrest the guys that fueled and service the planes involved in 9/11
[QUOTE=kweh;48745354] Does this mean the guy who cleaned the halls there is also to blame? Lol[/QUOTE] yes because he obviously could have made the floors super slippery so some SS officers would slip and hit their heads but he didn't!.
She's near enough her deathbed as it is, and I'm sure that she fell asleep pretty much every night since then full of guilt. Just leave her be.
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