• To Protect His Son suffering from Leukemia, A Father Asks School To Bar Unvaccinated Children
    271 replies, posted
[QUOTE=MoonlessNight;47036381]Not to be cynical but I get the feeling that's he's pro-vaccine and is using his son for politics. The kid has leukemia, a school is not going to be a safe enviornment for him regardless. He should be homeschooled, not dependent on a school full of kids not having germs.[/QUOTE] what is it with face-punchers and being a cynical ass? he's worried that his dying son could get sick and die because of other parents not being responsible [editline]30th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Lui2112;47041946]Forcing them into gas chambers is still forcing. You want to prove me wrong by using the must extreme example. Forcing a child who does not want a vaccination and removing his education with a group of students who are vaccinated. Apart from one who made himself to sick enough so he can't even get a vaccination. You don't know vaccinations have zero negative effects on the body and so forth in the great picture. It's just sick kid worshipping. The questions should be how can we cure him of cancer. Not start forcing kids and tell them what they have to take and what they can't experience like it's... Nazi Germany.[/QUOTE] A child doesn't get to decide not to have a vaccination because they don't know that it's better for them if they don't get vaccinated it can cause them to die in their 20's
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47041946]Forcing them into gas chambers is still forcing. You want to prove me wrong by using the must extreme example. Forcing a child who does not want a vaccination and removing his education with a group of students who are vaccinated. Apart from one who made himself to sick enough so he can't even get a vaccination. You don't know vaccinations have zero negative effects on the body and so forth in the great picture. It's just sick kid worshipping. The questions should be how can we cure him of cancer. Not start forcing kids and tell them what they have to take and what they can't experience like it's... Nazi Germany.[/QUOTE] If this were Nazi Germany the kid would've been killed and the parents likely sterilized. But let's pick this apart shall we? [QUOTE]Forcing a child who does not want a vaccination and removing his education with a group of students who are vaccinated. Apart from one who made himself sick enough so he can't even get a vaccination[/QUOTE] First off, what the fuck? MADE himself sick enough?? As if he went out and rubbed himself in leukaemia germs on purpose to avoid getting a vaccination? Jesus christ get informed. Secondly, forcing a child who does not want a vaccination? You realize if we left it up to the children that even more would be un-vaccinated, and thus, infect others and very possibly die? [QUOTE]You don't know vaccinations have zero negative effects on the body and so forth in the great picture.[/QUOTE] I assume you mean, as a kid, you don't know the full reasoning behind vaccinations? Personally, at the schools I went to, we were informed quite well that it was to stop ourselves and others from infecting and transmitting diseases that should be, by all rights, dead. All adults today should know that vaccines may, in rare cases, give people the actual disease, and do often make people feel ill for a week as their body adapts to the new (weaker) virus. [QUOTE]The questions should be how can we cure him of cancer[/QUOTE] Agreed. But in the mean time, rather than sit and wait for a cure and let them die a slow, horrible death, we should make sure that they can actually live in the world today. You argue that the un-vaccinated kids are losing out because of this kid, but you see, their situation is easily solved. Get vaccinated. For the kid with leukaemia, they can't. There is no easy solution. Either everyone gets vaccinated, or they are writing themselves a death sentence. [QUOTE]Not start forcing kids and tell them what they have to take and what they can't experience[/QUOTE] Can't experience? Holy shit. Look up pictures of people with Polio, or Smallpox. Would you call that 'an experience'? Measles can kill. It can cause extreme complications with pregnant women. It has no right to exist, and no one should have to go through the pain of a disease which should be eradicated. Having a disease is not "an experience". You don't come out of it with a "oh that sure was unpleasant but now i'm okay." Like with Polio. You didn't get the sniffles for a week and then be a-okay, you could and likely would be permanently crippled, or die. [QUOTE] like it's... Nazi Germany.[/QUOTE] No. Hell, if this was Nazi Germany, those kids would be vaccinated anyway. What kind of self-respecting Nazi family would have an un-vaccinated and therefore weak and vulnerable child? :v: [B]-edit-[/B] Sorry if that comes across as ranty, but I just hate the idea that someone who can get vaccinated would chose not to. The chances of there being a fuck-up are slim, there's no downsides to being immune to a disease. Hell, being part of a new age of medicine, eradicating diseases that previously wiped out generations and communities. Why would anyone want to go back to the way it was?
[Quote]First off, what the fuck? MADE himself sick enough?? As if he went out and rubbed himself in leukaemia germs on purpose to avoid getting a vaccination? Jesus christ get informed. Secondly, forcing a child who does not want a vaccination? You realize if we left it up to the children that even more would be un-vaccinated, and thus, infect others and very possibly die?[/Quote] Yes he made himself sick. His parents are to blame and so is the society. If you don't exercise you'll get the negative effects of not doing so. Don't wash, and you'll become unhygienic. Don't tend to your immune system, you get sick. Of course. I'm not saying get rid of vaccines, I've never said that in any of my posts. [Quote]I assume you mean, as a kid, you don't know the full reasoning behind vaccinations? Personally, at the schools I went to, we were informed quite well that it was to stop ourselves and others from infecting and transmitting diseases that should be, by all rights, dead. All adults today should know that vaccines may, in rare cases, give people the actual disease, and do often make people feel ill for a week as their body adapts to the new (weaker) virus.[/Quote] Well vaccines aren't guarantee to work. Who knows of their overall affect long-term. [quote]Agreed. But in the mean time, rather than sit and wait for a cure and let them die a slow, horrible death, we should make sure that they can actually live in the world today. You argue that the un-vaccinated kids are losing out because of this kid, but you see, their situation is easily solved. Get vaccinated. For the kid with leukaemia, they can't. There is no easy solution. Either everyone gets vaccinated, or they are writing themselves a death sentence.[/quote] Yes but denying the right of a healthy child. A right in this world, and freedom to go along with it. Is morally worse than letting a sick child who doesn't have an immune system control the fate of multiple others. It's his disease and sickness. Why are healthy people having to sacrifice themselves for unhealthy people? The leukaemia child should be home schooled. [Quote]Can't experience? Holy shit. Look up pictures of people with Polio, or Smallpox. Would you call that 'an experience'? Measles can kill. It can cause extreme complications with pregnant women. It has no right to exist, and no one should have to go through the pain of a disease which should be eradicated. Having a disease is not "an experience". You don't come out of it with a "oh that sure was unpleasant but now i'm okay." Like with Polio. You didn't get the sniffles for a week and then be a-okay, you could and likely would be permanently crippled, or die.[/Quote] Well everything is an experience, good or bad. I can't remember. I haven't got as much as a cold in 5 years. [quote]No. Hell, if this was Nazi Germany, those kids would be vaccinated anyway. What kind of self-respecting Nazi family would have an un-vaccinated and therefore weak and vulnerable child? :v:[/quote] You saying that un-vaccinated children is not nazi like. That would be calling a lot of people Nazis. [B]-edit-[/B] [Quote]Sorry if that comes across as ranty, but I just hate the idea that someone who can get vaccinated would chose not to. The chances of there being a fuck-up are slim, there's no downsides to being immune to a disease. Hell, being part of a new age of medicine, eradicating diseases that previously wiped out generations and communities. Why would anyone want to go back to the way it was?[/QUOTE] So why are you attacking me. I'm vaccinated and all for vaccinations and modern science. I'd suggest you read my posts before making claims of "stupidity". I'm just pointing out the clear moral, ethic and overarching principles of vaccinations and humans health in general.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47045811]Yes he made himself sick. His parents are to blame and so is the society. If you don't exercise you'll get the negative effects of not doing so. Don't wash, and you'll become unhygienic. Don't tend to your immune system, you get sick. Of course. I'm not saying get rid of vaccines, I've never said that in any of my posts.[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone has to reply to your other points after reading that. How is leukaemia and "not exercising" or "not washing" even remotely related? You are spouting bullshit for the sake of bullshit.
[QUOTE=Fetret;47046111]I don't think anyone has to reply to your other points after reading that. How is leukaemia and "not exercising" or "not washing" even remotely related? You are spouting bullshit for the sake of bullshit.[/QUOTE] We found out how to be fit from exercise. We found out how to be hygienic with sanitation. Just because you haven't found out how to build your[I] immune[/I] system to stay healthy(disease immunity),doesn't mean its' not possible. You may want to live in a world where people get sick and that's just the way it is. I don't. I believe cancer is curable just as much as anything else what can affect the body negatively.
[QUOTE=Fetret;47046111]I don't think anyone has to reply to your other points after reading that. How is leukaemia and "not exercising" or "not washing" even remotely related? You are spouting bullshit for the sake of bullshit.[/QUOTE] Oh, just wait. If this line of thinking continues, just wait for the once preventable diseases to begin mutating. Won't we need to develop entirely NEW vaccines for that? Won't that mean that EVERYONE, healthy, allergic, immune compromised, AND vaccinated won't be safe? [QUOTE=Lui2112;47046212]We found out how to be fit from exercise. We found out how to be hygienic with sanitation. Just because you haven't found out how to build your[I] immune[/I] system to stay healthy(disease immunity),doesn't mean its' not possible. You may want to live in a world where people get sick and that's just the way it is. I don't. I believe cancer is curable just as much as anything else what can affect the body negatively.[/QUOTE] Hey, wanna know how you get said disease immunity? VACCINATIONS AND HERD IMMUNITY! We WANT disease immunity, that's why everyone's been arguing with you because you appear to be against that. Being healthy and washing frequently won't do shit to save you when people around you start catching preventable diseases. Vaccines only work effectively if a majority of the population has them. This protects everyone who is unable to vaccinate due to legitimate medical reasons via herd immunity. I seriously don't know how to explain it any clearer than that. If you CAN get vaccinated and you refuse to, shame on you. You are only doing the fellow human race a MASSIVE dis-service.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;47027035]You know when they told you as a kid that you'll get used to needles as an adult? I never believed them but it's kind of true. Vaccines are nothing, tiny little needle in a not-very-sensitive part of your body. Drawing blood is what freaks me out.[/QUOTE] i still hate needles even as an adult, but i'm a baby on the inside so i'm not sure if it counts
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47045811]So why are you attacking me. I'm vaccinated and all for vaccinations and modern science. I'd suggest you read my posts before making claims of "stupidity". I'm just pointing out the clear moral, ethic and overarching principles of vaccinations and humans health in general.[/QUOTE] We aren't attacking you. We are just pointing out your complete disregard of the clear moral, ethic, and overarching principles of letting people die of completely preventable diseases.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47046212]We found out how to be fit from exercise. We found out how to be hygienic with sanitation. Just because you haven't found out how to build your[I] immune[/I] system to stay healthy(disease immunity),doesn't mean its' not possible. You may want to live in a world where people get sick and that's just the way it is. I don't. I believe cancer is curable just as much as anything else what can affect the body negatively.[/QUOTE] do you go around thanking yourself for not contracting cancer everyday like it was your choice? you don't just "find out" how to stop your white blood cells from mutating. you're spinning your argument as if you're taking the moral high ground for disease immunity yet you're shitting on the vaccination trend when ITS DESIGNED TO MAKE PEOPLE IMMUNE FROM DISEASES. you're trying to detract from all of this by saying "we should focus on curing his cancer" like cancer research isn't already a billion dollar initiative. do you think that nobody's trying? or do you think that because we're trying to focus on issues that we know we can solve, that we're forgetting/ignoring that he has cancer you're seriously a piece of shit that chuckles from his tower. it's easy to make bullshit points when you're not suffering from debilitating disease. i'm not exactly wishing these deathly diseases on you, but perhaps you should go through the "experience" (as said by you) of having one. maybe it'd put things into perspective for you.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47046212]We found out how to be fit from exercise. We found out how to be hygienic with sanitation. Just because you haven't found out how to build your[I] immune[/I] system to stay healthy(disease immunity),doesn't mean its' not possible. You may want to live in a world where people get sick and that's just the way it is. I don't. I believe cancer is curable just as much as anything else what can affect the body negatively.[/QUOTE] Guys I think I get it. Maybe this guy has had a lobotomy?
I was reading something else about this and it said the anti-vaxxers are now scared about possible legal consequences. Honestly if you idiots start an epidemic on bogus science, you are criminally negligent and at the very least should be forced to vaccinate Freedom of choice stops when it causes a plague Still bugs the hell out of me when they say "its the toxins" YOU LIVE IN BLOODY CALIFORNIA, the air, soil, and water have more "toxins" in them than 1000000 booster shots
Two more cases in northern California. Both non-vaccinated children. Total is 95 known cases now.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47046212]We found out how to be fit from exercise. We found out how to be hygienic with sanitation. Just because you haven't found out how to build your[I] immune[/I] system to stay healthy(disease immunity),doesn't mean its' not possible. You may want to live in a world where people get sick and that's just the way it is. I don't. I believe cancer is curable just as much as anything else what can affect the body negatively.[/QUOTE] Cancer is curable? We stick a bunch of targeted organic molecules in your blood which latch onto cancer cells and deactivate them, as well as use precision guided radiation therapy to eliminate them, immune systems aren't meant to cope with this stuff, immune systems only exist to keep you alive long enough to reproduce, nature didn't build us to live more than a few decades, but thankfully we have the ability to live much longer by avoiding terrible diseases through sanitation AND vaccination as well as having access to medicines that can give our immune system a chance
[QUOTE=da space core;47046576]We aren't attacking you. We are just pointing out your complete disregard of the clear moral, ethic, and overarching principles of letting people die of completely preventable diseases.[/QUOTE] There's a difference here. I was viewing people dying of disease due to nature. I didn't say we should let them die from human morals, and ethics.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47047826]There's a difference here. I was viewing people dying of disease due to nature. I didn't say we should let them die from human morals, and ethics.[/QUOTE] Wait I'm confused, are you saying people dying from nature (i.e. curable disease) justifies anti-vax stance because it's a natural way to die?
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47045811]-things-[/QUOTE] I'll tackle these one at a time: First of all, made himself sick? The article doesn't say what type of leukaemia the kid has, but it is mostly inherited. Are you saying it's the kid's fault he inherited leukaemia? If not, then you're saying soap is this all-powerful tool that destroys all diseases on contact. That is simply not the case. If an infected person coughs or sneezes on you, no amount of soap, vitamins or healthy eating will help you if you have leukaemia as a child. Second case, we do know the long-term effects of vaccines. Diseases will be eradicated. We will no longer have to arbitrarily suffer at the hands of disease. When there is no more disease in the world, people can work and grow without worrying about being brought low suddenly. Why anyone would be against this, I don't know. Because it's not natural? Natural is dying horribly. Nobody wants that. You claim 'being healthy' is an end-all-and-be-all against disease, but that's not the case. Some diseases don't give a fuck about how many oranges you ate. You contract it, you suffer. Third point, these healthy child's dilemma can be solved by a 15 minute to the doctor. The child with leukaemia will have to wait and hope they live long enough to build up an immune system strong enough to get vaccinated. It's morally wrong to force a child with a disease they have through no fault of their own to suffer BECAUSE they have a disease. We're not talking about throwing healthy children to the wolves for the sake of a boy with leukaemia. When you're talking this way, it's coming across as "Fuck people with hereditary diseases, all they do is slow us down!" Homeschooling is just not a valid option for a working family. Fourth point, getting fucking Polio isn't an experience anyone should ever have to go through, and you should slap yourself for even suggesting it. Fifth point, way to take my point too far. The fact is, being un-vaccinated makes you weak, there is a gap in your immune system to be exploited by a disease or virus. My point is, in Nazi Germany, if you were un-vaccinated, you had this weakness and vulnerability. Do you think the Nazis would have stood for that? No. Am I saying everyone who gets vaccinated is a Nazi? Of course not, I don't know where you got that from. But the hard fact is, if people do not get vaccinated, it is a blindspot in the herd immunity that could allow disease to run rampant, undoing years of progress. Last point, I get very heated in anti-vaxx threads/discussions. Why anyone would want to NOT eradicate life-threatening diseases is beyond me. We're living in a healthier period of history, but this does not mean we should all relax now. I'm beginning to realize now that you're one of those "man, WHY do governments"/"question everything" conspiracy bullshit. Governments have been a thing for a very long time, nobody likes them but it's better than the tribal alternative. The fact here is that, unlike your example of Nazi Germany, people are being forced into something which verifiably is good for the population. Case in point? Polio. Where is it now? Gone. Why? [B]Vaccines[/B]. This is a fact. Healthy eating and hygiene didn't eradicate it, vaccines did, and, if people don't wise up soon, more deadly diseases are going to start to slip through. I hate going on long tirades like this, but this anti-vaxx stuff needs to end, now, before more serious diseases start reaching epidemic levels
[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47048530]Case in point? Polio. Where is it now? Gone. Why? [B]Vaccines[/B]. This is a fact. Healthy eating and hygiene didn't eradicate it, vaccines did, and, if people don't wise up soon, more deadly diseases are going to start to slip through.[/QUOTE] The sad and tragic thing is that polio is making a comeback in Africa thanks to the local variation of anti-vax shitheads (Nigerian religious leaders spreading FUD that the polio drops were a sterilization program intended to genocide muslims; within 3 years 20 previously-safe African countries had Nigerian-strain outbreaks). It's been officially declared eradicated in Southeast Asia, but that doesn't count Pakistan and Afghanistan (it's hard to run a vaccination program in a war-torn country), and at the same time that the WHO was declaring India, and therefore the SE Asia region Polio-free, a polio epidemic was going on in Pakistan. If you oppose vaccination on non-medical grounds, you're a latent bioterrorist. You put the world at large at risk because of a misguided notion of freedom.
[QUOTE=Smallheart;47048431]Wait I'm confused, are you saying people dying from nature (i.e. curable disease) justifies anti-vax stance because it's a natural way to die?[/QUOTE] No I'm saying dying from a disease would be a part of nature like every animal. I'm not anti-vax. I've never stated I was. I stated the opposite. People on here assume I have a viewpoint what's anti-vax so they go off trying to prove me [I]wrong[/I]
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47048607]The sad and tragic thing is that polio is making a comeback in Africa thanks to the local variation of anti-vax shitheads (Nigerian religious leaders spreading FUD that the polio drops were a sterilization program intended to genocide muslims; within 3 years 20 previously-safe African countries had Nigerian-strain outbreaks). It's been officially declared eradicated in Southeast Asia, but that doesn't count Pakistan and Afghanistan (it's hard to run a vaccination program in a war-torn country), and at the same time that the WHO was declaring India, and therefore the SE Asia region Polio-free, a polio epidemic was going on in Pakistan. If you oppose vaccination on non-medical grounds, you're a latent bioterrorist. You put the world at large at risk because of a misguided notion of freedom.[/QUOTE] I didn't know this. Now I feel worse. People come along literally with "We can take away the pain and suffering for future generations, look, it has worked here, and they are free from the plight you are suffering from" and the response is "HMMMM how can we trust you???" Truly sickening.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47048643]No I'm saying dying from a disease would be a part of nature like every animal. I'm not anti-vax. I've never stated I was. I stated the opposite. People on here assume I have a viewpoint what's anti-vax so they go off trying to prove me [I]wrong[/I][/QUOTE] but you have said, and i'm paraphrasing here, that technology and medicine is why we're a weak and dying people which is factually untrue and entirely unfounded.
[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47048530] Case in point? Polio. Where is it now? Gone. Why? [B]Vaccines[/B]. This is a fact. Healthy eating and hygiene didn't eradicate it, vaccines did, and, if people don't wise up soon, more deadly diseases are going to start to slip through. I hate going on long tirades like this, but this anti-vaxx stuff needs to end, now, before more serious diseases start reaching epidemic levels[/QUOTE] to be fair, sanitation is the easiest way to eliminate polio, most places that still have it have people living ~10 feet away from open sewers, but while sanitation is a shield against it, the polio vaccine is the sword which let us nearly wipe it out, a better analogy would be small-pox, a scourge of the human race, even healthy clean living folk in the 1900's could very easily catch it from natural reserves in the animal population as it transfered between humans, animals, and livestock, but it was completely, [B]completely[/B] eliminated as in 0 people today have died from it and 0 people tommorow will die from it, by using vaccines, now as it happens, in the process of vacinating ~half the world's population, we did not infact create entire nations full of autistic children because of *toxins* and that [I]was[/I] a dangerous vacine that [I]could[/I] cause a mild case of smallpox (though not infectious!) if one responded to it poorly the MMR shot however is completely safe, with the only worst side effects being a rash at the injection site. compaired to polio and small pox vacines it might as well be magical water filled with healing powers* *think of the MMR vaccine as being magical essential oil-water if you must
[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47048530]I'll tackle these one at a time: First of all, made himself sick? The article doesn't say what type of leukaemia the kid has, but it is mostly inherited. Are you saying it's the kid's fault he inherited leukaemia? If not, then you're saying soap is this all-powerful tool that destroys all diseases on contact. That is simply not the case. If an infected person coughs or sneezes on you, no amount of soap, vitamins or healthy eating will help you if you have leukaemia as a child. Second case, we do know the long-term effects of vaccines. Diseases will be eradicated. We will no longer have to arbitrarily suffer at the hands of disease. When there is no more disease in the world, people can work and grow without worrying about being brought low suddenly. Why anyone would be against this, I don't know. Because it's not natural? Natural is dying horribly. Nobody wants that. You claim 'being healthy' is an end-all-and-be-all against disease, but that's not the case. Some diseases don't give a fuck about how many oranges you ate. You contract it, you suffer. Third point, these healthy child's dilemma can be solved by a 15 minute to the doctor. The child with leukaemia will have to wait and hope they live long enough to build up an immune system strong enough to get vaccinated. It's morally wrong to force a child with a disease they have through no fault of their own to suffer BECAUSE they have a disease. We're not talking about throwing healthy children to the wolves for the sake of a boy with leukaemia. When you're talking this way, it's coming across as "Fuck people with hereditary diseases, all they do is slow us down!" Homeschooling is just not a valid option for a working family. Fourth point, getting fucking Polio isn't an experience anyone should ever have to go through, and you should slap yourself for even suggesting it. Fifth point, way to take my point too far. The fact is, being un-vaccinated makes you weak, there is a gap in your immune system to be exploited by a disease or virus. My point is, in Nazi Germany, if you were un-vaccinated, you had this weakness and vulnerability. Do you think the Nazis would have stood for that? No. Am I saying everyone who gets vaccinated is a Nazi? Of course not, I don't know where you got that from. But the hard fact is, if people do not get vaccinated, it is a blindspot in the herd immunity that could allow disease to run rampant, undoing years of progress. Last point, I get very heated in anti-vaxx threads/discussions. Why anyone would want to NOT eradicate life-threatening diseases is beyond me. We're living in a healthier period of history, but this does not mean we should all relax now. I'm beginning to realize now that you're one of those "man, WHY do governments"/"question everything" conspiracy bullshit. Governments have been a thing for a very long time, nobody likes them but it's better than the tribal alternative. The fact here is that, unlike your example of Nazi Germany, people are being forced into something which verifiably is good for the population. Case in point? Polio. Where is it now? Gone. Why? [B]Vaccines[/B]. This is a fact. Healthy eating and hygiene didn't eradicate it, vaccines did, and, if people don't wise up soon, more deadly diseases are going to start to slip through. I hate going on long tirades like this, but this anti-vaxx stuff needs to end, now, before more serious diseases start reaching epidemic levels[/QUOTE] Are you saying that I believe that washing your hands with soap will cure cancer. I was making a comparison between Hygiene and sanitation. As I was between a proper functioning immune system, and the inability to get sick from any, diseases.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47048668]Are you saying that I believe that washing your hands with soap will cure cancer. I was making a comparison between Hygiene and sanitation, as I was between a proper functioning immune system, and the inability to get sick from any, diseases.[/QUOTE] Hygiene and sanitation can't and don't prevent cancer though. They have nothing to do with cancer prevention, therefore, you can't protect yourself from all diseases through simple sanitation. Also, many viruses or bacteria develop immunities to our sanitation methods because we've used antibacterial soap like it's regular soap creating hyper immune and hyper strong diseases.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47048656]but you have said, and i'm paraphrasing here, that technology and medicine is why we're a weak and dying people which is factually untrue and entirely unfounded.[/QUOTE] If a person was to live a extremely sedentary lifestyle relying on, and being distracted by technology. He'd become likely fat, depending on diet. He'd also experience a wealth of health problems would could masked by over the counter [I]medications[/I]. This person could die from a heart attack or stroke. That is an extreme example, but very doable in this day and age. Yes our use of anti-bacterial, anti biotics just creates resistance to nature. nature evolves and things come back worse. In most western cities for an example you might not experience it because everything is so controlled when crossing borders, but were plagued with health conditions such as cancer. We beat so many disease with vaccines. Even some are coming back. Some new ones are surfacing. No matter what man seems to do, nature will always be one step of ahead. Nature made every cell of everything on this planet. It appears you either face nature, or run from it. Sanitation is to do mostly with hygiene. Same as exercise is to primarily with fitness. Immune system is to do with [I]immunity[/I]. A proper functioning immune system means by it's definition, immunity. That needs to be our focus to really solve issues like cancers.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47048668]Are you saying that I believe that washing your hands with soap will cure cancer. I was making a comparison between Hygiene and sanitation. As I was between a proper functioning immune system, and the inability to get sick from any, diseases.[/QUOTE] I was not suggesting that you were saying soap cures cancer, what I was suggesting is that your post is implying that regular sanitation provides an undefeatable barrier that disease can't get through. I shower regularly, clean my hands thoroughly every bathroom visit and clean my cutlery ruthlessly, and I still get colds and flu. If you regularly traverse areas of high public transit, chances are you're going to catch something no matter how routinely you clean yourself. Hell, there's a reason they say "everybody get's Fresher's Flu" at University, because someone is going to arrive with the flu, and one way or another, you're going to get it. No amount of hygiene can stop this, the only way would be to lock yourself away and never leave your room. [B]-edit in response to above post-[/B] Art thou serious? This entire thread is about old diseases coming back [I]because[/I] people are not getting vaccinated against them! Not through some weird mystic ~force of nature~, it's through the idiocy of a select group of people which are stalling the progress of medicene
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47048762]If a person was to live a extremely sedentary lifestyle relying on, and being distracted by technology. He'd become likely fat, depending on diet. He'd also experience a wealth of health problems would could masked by over the counter [I]medications[/I]. This person could die from a heart attack or stroke. That is an extreme example, but very doable in this day and age. Yes our use of anti-bacterial, anti biotic just creates resistance to nature. nature evolves and things come back worse. In most western cities for an example you might not experience it because everything is so controlled when crossing borders, but were plagued with health conditions such as cancer. We beat so many disease with vaccines. Even some are coming back. Some new ones are surfacing. No matter what man seems to do, nature will always be one step of ahead. Nature made every cell of everything on this planet. It appears you either face nature, or run from it.[/QUOTE] so your answer to "Nature wins is" abandon technology because it can, when used wrongly by lazy people, be bad? See, this isn't a reasonable, logical, or realistic response.
[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47048763]I was not suggesting that you were saying soap cures cancer, what I was suggesting is that your post is implying that regular sanitation provides an undefeatable barrier that disease can't get through. I shower regularly, clean my hands thoroughly every bathroom visit and clean my cutlery ruthlessly, and I still get colds and flu. If you regularly traverse areas of high public transit, chances are you're going to catch something no matter how routinely you clean yourself. Hell, there's a reason they say "everybody get's Fresher's Flu" at University, because someone is going to arrive with the flu, and one way or another, you're going to get it. No amount of hygiene can stop this, the only way would be to lock yourself away and never leave your room.[/QUOTE] I sometimes don't shower for weeks. Reuse dishes. walk around public places in the cold. Haven't had as much as a cold in 5 years.
[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47048644]I didn't know this. Now I feel worse. People come along literally with "We can take away the pain and suffering for future generations, look, it has worked here, and they are free from the plight you are suffering from" and the response is "HMMMM how can we trust you???" Truly sickening.[/QUOTE] The African program was about a year or two out from being able to eradicate it and start the three-year countdown to declaring Africa polio-free. This was in 2003, and it flushed a decade of dedicated, concentrated vaccination work by the medical establishment. [URL="http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/npr/382716075/measles-is-a-killer-it-took-145-000-lives-worldwide-last-year"]Measles killed 145,000 people last year.[/URL] [QUOTE]"It's really traveling Americans who are unvaccinated, then return to the United States with the measles virus, that are causing most of the measles in the U.S. currently," (a CDC senior advisor) says.[/QUOTE] It was declared eradicated in the US in 1990. And now it's back because fucktard rebels without a clue want to stick it to "Big Pharma" and the gubmint as if herd immunity doesn't matter. The Philippines is currently going through a devastating outbreak that started after Typhoon Haiyan fucked up the place in late 2013 and made vaccination programs difficult; 6000 people died; 57,000 were infected in 2014 as the disease spread to urban centers. At least some (but not all) of the Disneyland measles cases are of the current Philippines strain, and the blame for those is being placed on unvaccinated Americans travelling there and bringing it back. The Disneyland Measles outbreak has spread to Canada, as well, as unvaccinated Canadian visitors were infected and brought it back with them. At least one guy with Measles from Disneyland rode Amtrak; what a brilliant idea, guy. This can't stay like this. This generation of adults has no idea what they're playing with. All of you, if you're an adult and you haven't had your shots since you were in school, [B]get them[/B] unless you can't for medical reasons, or they're just too expensive. But if you go travelling out of the country, get them for sure. Don't be patient 0 in an outbreak in your town. [editline]31st January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Lui2112;47048792]I sometimes don't shower for weeks. Reuse dishes. walk around public places in the cold. Haven't had as much as a cold in 5 years.[/QUOTE] Being in cold temperatures has zero to do with getting sick. Your arguments are anecdotal, non-scientific, and completely worthless. Please lick a leper.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47048762]If a person was to live a extremely sedentary lifestyle relying on, and being distracted by technology. He'd become likely fat, depending on diet. He'd also experience a wealth of health problems would could masked by over the counter [I]medications[/I]. This person could die from a heart attack or stroke. That is an extreme example, but very doable in this day and age. Yes our use of anti-bacterial, anti biotics just creates resistance to nature. nature evolves and things come back worse. In most western cities for an example you might not experience it because everything is so controlled when crossing borders, but were plagued with health conditions such as cancer. We beat so many disease with vaccines. Even some are coming back. Some new ones are surfacing. No matter what man seems to do, nature will always be one step of ahead. Nature made every cell of everything on this planet. It appears you either face nature, or run from it. Sanitation is to do mostly with hygiene. Same as exercise is to primarily with fitness. Immune system is to do with [I]immunity[/I]. A proper functioning immune system means by it's definition, immunity. That needs to be our focus to really solve issues like cancers.[/QUOTE] you don't understand how immune systems work though, a perfectly healthy person exposed to HIV [I]will get AIDS[/I] if they don't suppliment their immune response. its not about having a perfectly working immune system, if you're not dying from the dozens of viruses in your blood right now, then your immune system is by definition perfectly working. Diseases are much different, they're dangerous because our immune system can't deal with them. small pox, anthrax, HIV, they all have ways to defeat or sap the immune system and reproduce until you're a sack of proteins and viruses. immune systems keep us alive daily but they don't do shit against the heavy stuff, its like a security guard for the body, keeping the day-to-day stuff at bay, but diseases are like 20 guys in body armor with AK-47's, the security guard is completely overwhelmed, he might take out 1 or 2 but he's going down you may be confused additionally by cancer due to some methods for treating cancer which try to get the immune system to target cancerous cells, but these theropies are doing trying to [B]reprogram[/B] the body's immune response to try to fight cancer and they also rely on using immune-boosting drugs to build up the immune system
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47048792]I sometimes don't shower for weeks. Reuse dishes. walk around public places in the cold. Haven't had as much as a cold in 5 years.[/QUOTE] Just because you can get away with that doesn't mean everyone else can. Besides, not showering makes your skin a festering ground for bacteria, putting, guess what, vulnerable people at risk.
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