To Protect His Son suffering from Leukemia, A Father Asks School To Bar Unvaccinated Children
271 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47069114]
[B]which is just a pile of tripe.[/B] If being "pseudo scientific" is a modern version of being "ahead of the times[B]" then we really have a powerful scientist here,[/B] just one that cannot and will not produce proof.
[/quote]
So you labelled what i said as tripe, but then you contradicted yourself by giving credibility to it. By the two sections I highlighted of the post I did. zing!
[editline]3rd February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47069173]Now it's obvious you're trolling[/QUOTE]
I guess your name suits your well. HumanAbyss. Go play Teamfortress. My views are my views, if that makes you think I'm a "troll", then what are you even doing replying to me saying I'm wrong.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting/Trolling" - BANNED USER))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47069180][QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47069114][B]which is just a pile of tripe.[/B] If being "pseudo scientific" is a modern version of being "ahead of the times" [B]then we really have a powerful scientist here[/B], just one that cannot and will not produce proof.[/QUOTE]
So you labelled what i said as tripe, but then you contradicted yourself by giving credibility to it. By the two sections I highlighted of the post I did. zing![/QUOTE]
I guess we can add sarcasm to the list of things you don't understand, in addition to modern disease containment, the immune system, evidence-based methods, and fundamental hygiene.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47069253]I guess we can add sarcasm to the list of things you don't understand, in addition to modern disease containment, evidence-based methods, and fundamental hygiene.[/QUOTE]
I guess your just as foolish as I am.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47069180]So you labelled what i said as tripe, but then you contradicted yourself by giving credibility to it. By the two sections I highlighted of the post I did. zing!
[editline]3rd February 2015[/editline]
I guess your name suits your well. HumanAbyss. Go play Teamfortress. My views are my views, if that makes you think I'm a "troll", then what are you even doing replying to me saying I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]
That was sarcasm. It's hard to believe you wouldn't realize that. In any event, you haven't given any evidence as to why any of your claims would be right.
Then there's the fact you cherry pick and ignore responses as it suits you.
I'm really starting to question if you're worth my time as it's likely you'll be banned for trolling sometime soon.
[quote]I didn't say there was a no medical reason for being vaccinated. I am vaccinated. I'm all for vaccines. Why are you telling me the same thing twice. Well we can conclude that vaccines aren't the solution because that'd be bulletproof. That was my entire point we need to look beyond vaccines.
My solution would to be on human overall health. More specifically the immune system, and making do what it's supposed to do. Something i do myself, with diet, lifestyle, and other factors.[/quote]
Uhh, vaccines are all about the immune system. That is the beauty of vaccination. The actual injected component is just a disabled version of the thing you want to avoid. Your immune system then devises an antibody for that illness that is generally also effective vs the live variant.
Not only do they work pretty well against known agents (stuff like flu vaccines have to predict how the virus will change and guess at how to design the vaccine, which is why the effectiveness is lower. Improving our ability to predict this stuff would improve its effectiveness.) but, barring a pretty small portion of the population who are allergic, there are effectively no side effects. Not only that, but because of how vaccines work, the people who are allergic (a portion of the population that is probably going to exist basically no matter what solution you design) can still be protected by herd immunity. Since everyone else can destroy the foreign body on contact because they are vaccinated, it allows the allergic person to still avoid the disease because a sufficient portion of the population is indeed vaccinated.
Through this we have been able to basically destroy entire diseases in developed nations. Vaccines have achieved an amazing victory against a wide variety of diseases.
I don't understand your viewpoint. Please explain it. Vaccines already leverage the immune system of the human body in a rather elegant fashion.
Maybe because you lack the ability to make a clear, concise point. Pardon us for "misinterpreting" your incoherent ramblings.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47069180]So you labelled what i said as tripe, but then you contradicted yourself by giving credibility to it. By the two sections I highlighted of the post I did. zing!
[editline]3rd February 2015[/editline]
I guess your name suits your well. HumanAbyss. Go play Teamfortress. My views are my views, if that makes you think I'm a "troll", then what are you even doing replying to me saying I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]
You cry and complain about people "attacking you" and then you turn around and attack others for no reason at all other than pointing out your logic is flawed. Your views can be your views until fucking doomsday, it doesn't make them right. You came onto a public forum spouting your "views" as scientific fact. Expect to be called out for being wrong.
I don't get why he thinks it being his opinion makes a difference, opinions are subjective view points on a subjective field. This is science motherfucker, we don't do probably and I feels here, we do raw calculating fucking numbers and facts and they say he's wrong.
End of.
this thread is so fucking derailed, the discussion on public health vs personal decision in regards to vaccine should be taken up in the mass debate thread at this point
[QUOTE=Sableye;47070033]this thread is so fucking derailed, the discussion on public health vs personal decision in regards to vaccine should be taken up in the mass debate thread at this point[/QUOTE]
what mass debate
if you actually believe vaccines aren't the solution then I think you're a dumby and obviously don't understand that the reason hundreds of people aren't polio victims today is [U][I]specifically [/I][/U]because of vaccinations
if it wasn't for vaccines, smallpox, measles, and god knows what else would still be a big issue.
Mass debate was closed
even if it wasn't, it doesnt matter because you cannot argue against fact
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47069180]I guess your name suits your well. HumanAbyss. Go play Teamfortress. My views are my views, if that makes you think I'm a "troll", then what are you even doing replying to me saying I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]
1. I personally think it's hilarious.
2. Stupid people will be the death of humanity.
I love checking into this thread to read ~40 posts of a dumb topic that get dragged way too long everyday to school
The loop of baffling logic is almost entertaining as a sitcom of some sort
Please post more Lui2112
Honestly, it was hilarious the second he started throwing around the word "moronic", especially while fudging the definition.
I don't mean to carry this too far off topic, but a rule of thumb for everyone is to make sure you don't look stupid while in the process of calling others stupid. I mean, it's fine if you don't want to be taken seriously, but otherwise...
Lui, you represent [B]everything[/B] that is wrong with our society. It has been a while since I have seen someone as poorly educated, thick-headed and outright [I]dumb[/I] as you. And the problem is not that you are [I]un[/I]educated, because there's plenty of uneducated people over here, and they are not harmful because they mostly listen to the scientists and doctors. No, you are [I]misinformed[/I]. You think you know oh so much about the human body, while you know absolutely [B]nothing[/B].
Lets get one thing straight first. [B]Science is [I][U]NOT[/U][/I] a democracy.[/B] There is no 'well that's just my opinion'. There's [U]facts.[/U] And not the kind of empirical bullshit you are trying to feed everyone, but facts derived from a very specific, rigorous scientific process. It's why we have all these billions of studies and clinical trials and studies of studies and meta-analysis studies. So no, the ramblings of some shaman high on cocaine in some rural village in Eastern Asstopia is not a valid scientific source. Unless you can cite any peer-reviewed sources that support all of that shit you are spouting out, then your words are worthless. But please, go on believing the retarded blogs that claim herbal tea can cure cancer and showering with holy water will make arthritis disappear. Just stop trying to convey your misinformed views to anyone, and for the love of everything that is just, do not reproduce.
But lets take a look at how the immune system [I]actually[/I] works, and I will try to dumb it down as much as I can. The viruses, bacteria, parasites and other nasty creatures of the microcosm are the crooks, the bad guys, the terrorists. Your immune system is the cops. The bad guys plan to shoot up a building (your body). They have all the guns, all the ammo, and are fanatically devoted to destroying all that is soft and fluffy and fun. Now, the cops know they are supposed to be on the look-out for bad guys, but they can't arrest everyone that approaches the building. So there's one of two ways this can go:
1) The cops are unaware of what the crooks look like. The terrorists get inside the building, they start shooting up people, and they either manage to kill everyone or they are neutralized by the police after a bloodbath. This is what happens when you are not immune to a disease: the immune system does not know what it is fighting against, so by the time it figures out what it's supposed to do, you might be dead or severely damaged (such as paralysis in polio).
2) The cops have the pictures of the crooks posted on every billboard (memory T-cells) near the building. The bad guys are subdued and arrested before they have a chance to do any damage. This is what happens when you have been vaccinated: the immune system knows [I]exactly[/I] what it has to do and neutralizes the pathogen before it can do any real damage.
The mechanisms of human immune defense are very well understood. You can strengthen your immune system all you want through diet, exercise, etc., but when it comes to dangerous diseases like polio, it won't do shit.
You already said you are not an anti-vaxxer, so I won't go into the theories of herd immunity and the vulnerability of immune-suppressed people, but please do not make me revise this last statement.
So. Want to try again?
NPR just wrote an article on [url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/02/04/383567862/once-a-vaccine-skeptic-this-mom-changed-her-mind]this woman[/url] who was once a vaccination skeptic, but after looking over all the options for her kids, she realized that vaccinations are the only true way to keep her children healthy and safe from disease. If only more people opened their eyes and shut their religious texts for 5 minutes, not to mention not believe everything they hear from their friends or the internet, they would likely see the light. She hits the nail square on the head too.
[quote]"I had a lot of online acquaintances who claimed that their kids had become autistic because of vaccines," Russo says. "I got kind of swept up in that."[/quote]
Thanks Rand Paul and Alex Jones, you morons.
[QUOTE=AlienCreature;47074857]
So. Want to try again?[/QUOTE]
He would if he wasn't taking a small vacation from Facepunch, maybe on his return he'll formulate a more coherent and reasonable argument. Until then, let's hope here in the US we have the Govt. step up to the plate and handle the vaccination issue swiftly.
[QUOTE=Lui2112;47066059]The[I] immune[/I] system. Lifestyles, diets, and certain environmental reasons like chemicals.[/QUOTE]
I know he's been banned, but I want to single this point out in particular, because this is something that really ticks me off.
Whenever someone says the word "chemicals" as a reason or justification for anything, any and all credibility that they could have had in my eyes instantly evaporates. A chemical is something that has a constant chemical composition and a specific set of properties, and it cannot be separated into different components by physical methods. Confused? Let me clear that up for you: that describes literally every single goddamn thing under the sun. Water is a chemical. Lead is a chemical. Vitamin C is a chemical. BPA is a chemical. Your all-natural, organic carrot is full of fucking chemicals: ascorbic acid, niacin, carotene, lutein, zeaxanthin, falcarinol, to name a few. Saying that something has "chemicals" in it means fuck all. It just means that you didn't pluck it from the centre of a neutron star and it isn't some kind of quark-gluon plasma.
What really pisses me off is that lots of people try to use the word "chemical" as some kind of scare-mongering tactic. If you want to instantly make the public distrust something, just say that it has "chemicals" in it. This is disingenuous and misleading at best, and downright destructive at worst. It discourages critical thinking and analysis and encourages the lazy dismissal of scientific reasoning and evidence.
I get what those people are trying to say, that there are noxious compounds present in our environment that could cause problems through chronic exposure. But most of these people can't progress beyond voicing their doubts in a vague and unhelpful manner by using the catch-all buzzword "chemical". The fact is that we are exposed to a massive variety of substances on a day-to-day basis. Some of these do cause problems, either through acute or chronic exposure, but most of these our bodies happily deal with without complaint. It's all about the dosage.
tl;dr learn some chemistry, you idiots.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;47075023]NPR just wrote an article on [url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/02/04/383567862/once-a-vaccine-skeptic-this-mom-changed-her-mind]this woman[/url] who was once a vaccination skeptic, but after looking over all the options for her kids, she realized that vaccinations are the only true way to keep her children healthy and safe from disease. If only more people opened their eyes and shut their religious texts for 5 minutes, not to mention not believe everything they hear from their friends or the internet, they would likely see the light. She hits the nail square on the head too.
Thanks Rand Paul and Alex Jones, you morons.
[B][U]He would if he wasn't taking a small vacation from Facepunch, maybe on his return he'll formulate a more coherent and reasonable argument. [/U][/B] Until then, let's hope here in the US we have the Govt. step up to the plate and handle the vaccination issue swiftly.[/QUOTE]
Of all the things that will never happen, this is the thing that will never happen the most.
Also that chick is a fucking winner, it takes a lot to confront a deeply held belief like that, admit you're wrong and change your ways.
my old high school requires vaccinations
and chemotherapy, dam i wish more people knew about cbd
Anti-vaxxers are the Dunning-Kruger Effect writ large.
It's so depressing that it's 2015 and people are using the most complex thing humanity has ever created, a global information network that reaches billions, to spread medieval-grade bullshit that's prolonging the existence of diseases that exist merely to cripple and kill humans.
We don't deserve to be contacted by any sentient alien species that may exist out there.
[QUOTE=Megadave;47025305]I'll stick to my argument until the FDA decides to classify shit right.
[editline]28th January 2015[/editline]
I'm not trusting anyone who classifies Ritalin as a suitable medicine.[/QUOTE]
Fuck off. Ritalin has worked wonders with my anti-depressant. My mood hasn't been so manageable all my life.
Ritalin is over prescribed, but does its job extremely well. Some studies show that, over a long period of time, it actually corrects some of the inconsistencies in the brain waves that cause problems in the first place.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47075803]Ritalin is over prescribed, but does its job extremely well. Some studies show that, over a long period of time, it actually corrects some of the inconsistencies in the brain waves that cause problems in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Took me from being a rambunctious child to a comatose zombie, it's a little too effective. And honestly, if you lower the sugar levels in your kids diet I'm sure they'd chill out enough where you wouldn't need it.
Sugar doesn't make kids hyper. Kids take subtle cues from their parents, so it's a parent-child behavioural problem, not an ingestion one.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;47075472]I know he's been banned, but I want to single this point out in particular, because this is something that really ticks me off.
Whenever someone says the word "chemicals" as a reason or justification for anything, any and all credibility that they could have had in my eyes instantly evaporates. A chemical is something that has a constant chemical composition and a specific set of properties, and it cannot be separated into different components by physical methods. Confused? Let me clear that up for you: that describes literally every single goddamn thing under the sun. Water is a chemical. Lead is a chemical. Vitamin C is a chemical. BPA is a chemical. Your all-natural, organic carrot is full of fucking chemicals: ascorbic acid, niacin, carotene, lutein, zeaxanthin, falcarinol, to name a few. Saying that something has "chemicals" in it means fuck all. It just means that you didn't pluck it from the centre of a neutron star and it isn't some kind of quark-gluon plasma.
What really pisses me off is that lots of people try to use the word "chemical" as some kind of scare-mongering tactic. If you want to instantly make the public distrust something, just say that it has "chemicals" in it. This is disingenuous and misleading at best, and downright destructive at worst. It discourages critical thinking and analysis and encourages the lazy dismissal of scientific reasoning and evidence.
I get what those people are trying to say, that there are noxious compounds present in our environment that could cause problems through chronic exposure. But most of these people can't progress beyond voicing their doubts in a vague and unhelpful manner by using the catch-all buzzword "chemical". The fact is that we are exposed to a massive variety of substances on a day-to-day basis. Some of these do cause problems, either through acute or chronic exposure, but most of these our bodies happily deal with without complaint. It's all about the dosage.
tl;dr learn some chemistry, you idiots.[/QUOTE]
basically this.
the water you drink and the air you breathe are both chemicals, the way the tabloid media uses the word is meaningless.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47075964]Sugar doesn't make kids hyper. Kids take subtle cues from their parents, so it's a parent-child behavioural problem, not an ingestion one.[/QUOTE]
Good point, I was wrong.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;47075942]Took me from being a rambunctious child to a comatose zombie, it's a little too effective. And honestly, if you lower the sugar levels in your kids diet I'm sure they'd chill out enough where you wouldn't need it.[/QUOTE]
Sugar in general does not demonstrably cause behavioural and cognitive changes in children, this has been shown by several studies and meta-studies: [url]http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=391812[/url]
there are many different causes for kids being over active
sometimes its from diet
sometimes its learned behaviors
and sometimes its a legit medical reason
I do believe things like Ritalin is over prescribed, but I don't think its never necessary
[QUOTE=da space core;47077216]there are many different causes for kids being over active
sometimes its from diet
sometimes its learned behaviors
and sometimes its a legit medical reason
I do believe things like Ritalin is over prescribed, but I don't think its never necessary[/QUOTE]
Sometimes it is normal.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.