Police shot teenager after his father reported stolen truck
230 replies, posted
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD91hm57y_U[/media]
Raw footage of the chase.
What I wonder is why the hell the kid ran for?
And why did he ram the cop car?
Normally I would agree that the cops used excessive force, but it's really difficult to condemn their actions when you see the footage. He runs away from the cops for 5 minutes before pulling into a (potentially) densely packed area, and then proceeding to smash the cops' cars multiple times. Basically a huge fucking idiot.
[QUOTE=shanzo;42789838]Innocent man driving almost over students at a campus area. Sure the cop should've shot the car instead, but bad luck.[/QUOTE]
which was aggravated by a police chase over a stolen vehicle
there really needs to be an overhaul of procedure for when it is or is not appropriate to enter a high speed chase. a stolen vehicle isn't really appropriate.
edit since I'm getting dumbs for no reason
[url]http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/31/starchase_police_gps_cannon_system_aims_to_stop_dangerous_high_speed_chases.html[/url]
[QUOTE]Each day, someone in the United States dies as a result of a high-speed car chase
[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Of all the people killed in pursuits, 42 percent are innocent third parties.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]In 2008, for instance, only 8.6 percent of police chases were the result of a violent crime. Most of them are for traffic violations.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]one officer is killed every six weeks in a chase or responding to a non-life-threatening call.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/march-2010/evidence-based-decisions-on-police-pursuits[/url]
[QUOTE]One of the more interesting findings from the suspects concerned their willingness to slow down when the police stopped chasing them. Approximately 75 percent reported that they would slow down when they felt safe. They explained that on average, they would have “to be free from the police show of authority by emergency lights or siren for approximately two blocks in town...and 2.5 miles on a freeway.”11 In other words, suspects who have fled from the police report that once the officer terminates the pursuit, they will slow down within a reasonable period.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42795068]Normally I would agree that the cops used excessive force but it's really difficult to condemn their actions when you see the footage. He runs away from the cops for 5 minutes before pulling into a (potentially) densely packed area, and then proceeding to smash the cops' cars multiple times. Basically a huge fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]
And he also blew through that congested intersection and nearly hit a student on the campus.
He braked and all to avoid hitting him but what the fuck was this kid running for? Why didn't just pull over like any other sane person would do?
[editline]7th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795092]which was aggravated by a police chase over a stolen vehicle
there really needs to be an overhaul of procedure for when it is or is not appropriate to enter a high speed chase. a stolen vehicle isn't really appropriate.[/QUOTE]
There is. They don't just open fire on a car because its stolen. In fact, America has some strict use of lethal force laws. The kid rammed police vehicles multiple times, nearly caused a horrific accident and nearly ran over a student. At that point you're endangering the lives of motorists and pedestrians which is why they used lethal force.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;42795099]
There is. They don't just open fire on a car because its stolen. In fact, America has some strict use of lethal force laws. The kid rammed police vehicles multiple times, nearly caused a horrific accident and nearly ran over a student. At that point you're endangering the lives of motorists and pedestrians which is why they used lethal force.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I'm talking about I said a chase. At a certain point you have to step back and realize catching the guy isn't worth putting other civilians in danger. Bystanders are killed in police chases all the time, frequently for nonviolent and minor offenses.
[url]http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/31/starchase_police_gps_cannon_system_aims_to_stop_dangerous_high_speed_chases.html[/url]
Guess we should decommission all police cars then. No point in stopping reckless drivers/criminals!
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;42795146]Guess we should decommission all police cars then. No point in stopping reckless drivers![/QUOTE]
uhhhhhhh no
my point is a lot wouldn't be driving recklessly if they weren't being chased
and there is still good reason to chase suspects for violent crimes
and if you read the article I posted it proposes at least 3 alternatives
but nice try :)
the problem is that it sets a precedent.
"you can run away from us and we won't chase you"
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42795168]the problem is that it sets a precedent.
"you can run away from us and we won't chase you"[/QUOTE]
yes but I like that precedent better than "we will chase you at 60 mph and risk hitting pedestrians"
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795155]uhhhhhhh no
my point is a lot wouldn't be driving recklessly if they weren't being chased
and there is still good reason to chase suspects for violent crimes
and if you read the article I posted it proposes at least 3 alternatives
but nice try :)[/QUOTE]
You do realize the whole point of a police chase is to wait until the suspect is no where near anyone they could potentially injure. It's only then do the cops decide to ram and PIT, or open fire if necessary.
It's becoming pretty standard that if a chase gets to a high enough speed that the officers in cars are supposed to break off and let an air unit handle keeping track of them until they stop or crash or etc.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;42795177]You do realize the whole point of a police chase is to wait until the suspect is no where near anyone they could potentially injure. It's only then do the cops decide to ram and PIT, or open fire if necessary.[/QUOTE]
list of things I did not mention:
1. ram
2. PIT
3. open fire
I mentioned driving fucking fast and not obeying traffic
Please just read the article
[QUOTE]Each day, someone in the United States dies as a result of a high-speed car chase[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Of all the people killed in pursuits, 42 percent are innocent third parties.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]In 2008, for instance, only 8.6 percent of police chases were the result of a violent crime. Most of them are for traffic violations.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]one officer is killed every six weeks in a chase or responding to a non-life-threatening call.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42795168]the problem is that it sets a precedent.
"you can run away from us and we won't chase you"[/QUOTE]
no it doesn't police departments already have existing policies to stop police chases if it endangers the public too much to be worthwhile.
we are saying that existing policy should have been followed in this case.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42795199]no it doesn't police departments already have existing policies to stop police chases if it endangers the public too much to be worthwhile.
we are saying that existing policy should have been followed in this case.[/QUOTE]
Is it already policy they just aren't following? It happens so much I just assumed their was little to nothing on the subject.
also ffs
"In addition, research has shown that if the police refrain from chasing all offenders or terminate their pursuits, no significant increase in the number of suspects who flee would occur."
THIS IS FROM THE FBI. law enforcement supports my claim.
[editline]8th November 2013[/editline]
[url]http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/march-2010/evidence-based-decisions-on-police-pursuits[/url]
[editline]8th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795216]Is it already policy they just aren't following? It happens so much I just assumed their was little to nothing on the subject.[/QUOTE]
yea most departments have their own policy and it is generally up to the discretion of the officers. in this case the prosecution office said that the officer made the right call to continue pursuit but i disagree with that.
I didn't even read last page but yeah everything yawmwen said
Seems like everyone just saw "yawmwen" and "police" and assumed it was some crazy out there claim but no this is pretty common
ffs that Occulus Rift co-founder got killed by a random police chase a while back and Facepunch was all over the police then
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795256]I didn't even read last page but yeah everything yawmwen said
Seems like everyone just saw "yawmwen" and "police" and assumed it was some crazy out there claim but no this is pretty common
ffs that Occulus Rift co-founder got killed by a random police chase a while back and Facepunch was all over the police then[/QUOTE]
i'm critical of police in general but every argument i make isn't an "no police anarchism for everyone" argument. i'm arguing that the police made a bad choice and that there were preferable options open to them that might not have resulted in death, that's hardly radical.
Right. And I'd much rather have the risk that someone gets away with stealing my car over the risk that I might be killed crossing the street as a result of a chase for a nonviolent crime.
[QUOTE=deadoon;42792916]Outside spike strips which require them to direct the suspect, what could they stop him with? An anti materiel rifle?[/QUOTE]
Police sometimes use semi-automatic rifles or shotguns to try and destroy the engine. I wouldn't put faith in using their 9mm pistols to do that though. The driver himself is a much weaker target.
[QUOTE=Octavius;42793175]Well actually, seeing as the kid was going out to get some cigarettes, you could assume he would be getting out of the vehicle at some point.[/QUOTE]
They did not have this information.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42793200]my town has like 8k people and we have a fucking apc. county sheriffs here regularly drive in very heavy sports utility vehicles. so it's unlikely that they didn't have access to more equipment.[/QUOTE]
Good for you. Our biggest police vehicle is a Ford Bronco, anything bigger would require the State Police to bring their stuff, from 20 miles away.
idiot dad, if you wanna teach your kid a lesson do it yourself don't rely on cops. idiot kid, running from the cops is stupid unless you're really gonna get fucked for prison time, ramming cops is REALLY stupid. and yeah as has been pointed out, cops really shouldn't be taking pursuits through areas like that. it's not like a car thief is that much of a threat, you've got the license plate, you're gonna find him eventually
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;42795047][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD91hm57y_U[/media]
Raw footage of the chase.
What I wonder is why the hell the kid ran for?
And why did he ram the cop car?[/QUOTE]
Look at 3:50 right before the cops shot, he rams the police car pretty hard endangering the police officers life. This kid was a complete idiot, he should have stopped along time ago when the officer first put his lights on.
The cops weren't endangering anyones lives while in pursuit of the driver, the officer was cautious every turn or intersection he made. The kid driving the car wouldn't slow down in anyway shape or form he would have kept speeding in these areas if the police back off or not.
The point is not that the cops aren't careful, they generally are, however they are encouraging the suspect, who is not, by chasing him. And no I don't think he would have been going for a joy ride with no cops tailing him why the fuck would he.
He rammed that police cruiser hard enough to send debris flying into the air. Sadly HuffPo already has the "INNOCENT TEENAGER TOTALLY NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG SHOT BY PIGS" as their headline.
Edited:
The title was a total fabrication. It claimed the kid was "unarmed" despite using his 2 ton truck as a battering ram. A car is a deadly weapon.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795579]The point is not that the cops aren't careful, they generally are, however they are encouraging the suspect, who is not, by chasing him. And no I don't think he would have been going for a joy ride with no cops tailing him why the fuck would he.[/QUOTE]
Idiot with a stolen car is what the cops perceived him as.
[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;42795617]He rammed that police cruiser hard enough to send debris flying into the air. Sadly HuffPo already has the "INNOCENT TEENAGER TOTALLY NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG SHOT BY PIGS" as their headline.[/QUOTE]
No they don't.
[QUOTE]Tyler Comstock, Unarmed Teen, Shot Dead By Police On University Campus [/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/07/tyler-comstock-shot-dead-police-iowa-state-university_n_4234039.html?utm_hp_ref=crime[/url]
Why would you just make that up.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42795645]Idiot with a stolen car is what the cops perceived him as.[/QUOTE]
3:00
"We know this guy so we can probably back it off"
They knew it was just his kid
Also that doesn't answer my question
Also I already made it pretty clear I don't find that a good reason to start a pursuit.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42795284]i'm critical of police in general but every argument i make isn't an "no police anarchism for everyone" argument.[/QUOTE]
dude, today isn't stand-up comedy night.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795683]3:00
"We know this guy so we can probably back it off"
They knew it was just his kid
Also that doesn't answer my question
Also I already made it pretty clear I don't find that a good reason to start a pursuit.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure they would have stopped/backed off pursuing him if he never went onto the grass/pathway smashing into structures of the college endangering peoples lives, they are trained to stop people like that. He had adrenaline running through his veins right after the first initial encounter with the police, thats why he didn't stop in the first place making dumb decisions.
Let's take an objective look at the facts here:
Son pinches truck to go buy cigs.
Dad gets upset that his son pinched his truck without his permission.
Dad in his butthurt thinks its a good idea to tell the cops on his kid by reporting his vehicle as stolen.
The officers find the truck after junior inside has already had plenty of fun with reckless driving.
Junior thinks it's a good idea to lead the cops on a merry chase through the streets and also ram police vehicles. I'm pretty sure that constitutes reckless endangerment, assault on police officers, resisting arrest, and some other stuff in the statute book I may not remember.
Junior eventually gets cornered and shot because his actions marked him out as a threat to the officers and the people around him.
His dad was an asshole of the last degree for doing something so stupid as filing a false police report just to teach his son a lesson.
The kid was more than likely suffering from a minor form of stress-related mental disorder from what I could glean from recent events in his life, which could have some bearing on the actions he took.
Real life tends to end more poorly compared to action movies.
It's a sad thing that this kid got shot, but remember, he was endangering lives, attacking the police, and basically didn't have the thought to stand down. There may have been a chance of peaceful resolution, but only if he didn't go cocky and start with ramming police cruisers and reckless endangerment.
[QUOTE=Snapster;42795727]I'm pretty sure they would have stopped pursuing him if he never went onto the grass/pathway smashing into structures of the college endangering peoples lives, they are trained to stop people like that. He had adrenaline running through his veins right after the first initial encounter with the police, thats why he didn't stop in the first place making dumb decisions.[/QUOTE]
I'm just saying dude, after the first time he ran that red light that should have been a red flag "oh shit maybe it's not worth it" moment. They have his license plate, his name, and it's a fucking lawn service truck with incredibly distinct markings. And Ames is a little-ass town.
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