• Police shot teenager after his father reported stolen truck
    230 replies, posted
omg why didn't they just pepper spray the car!!?!?!
I can't believe that people are blaming the police for chasing him. If someone drives like a moron and runs from the cops that is their choice. What ever happens in that chase is purely the result of their choices and actions, not the officer's. Give me a break.
[QUOTE=HkSniper;42795816]I can't believe that people are blaming the police for chasing him. If someone drives like a moron and runs from the cops that is their choice. What ever happens in that chase is purely the result of their choices and actions, not the officer's. Give me a break.[/QUOTE] so what you are saying is that even though we have data that shows that chases frequently don't end well and do more harm police officers should still keep them going because it's not directly their fault. that's basically complacency to the known possible consequences on their part then. which is totally awesome yeah. I too agree that we should base our law enforcement policies not on what is best for the general populace but what best administers justice for nonviolent crime yeah sounds awesome thanks. at least I can find solace that even though I was flattened and am dead now the driver was held responsible for my death AND he got that speeding ticket I would rejoice at this victory of justice but I am dead
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795743]I'm just saying dude, after the first time he ran that red light that should have been a red flag "oh shit maybe it's not worth it" moment. They have his license plate, his name, and it's a fucking lawn service truck with incredibly distinct markings. And Ames is a little-ass town.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure when the cop did the initial stop he didn't knew who was driving the vehicle, only that it was a stolen vehicle. I think that if dispatch knew it was the owners son that was driving the vehicle they wouldn't have issued it as stolen. If the cops did know that it was the son of the owners yeah I totally get they shouldn't have pursued further but If they only knew it was a stolen vehicle that rammed a police cruiser they will pursue until that person is caught to ensure no-one else is in danger of him. They aren't going to be like "Hey, this guy ran a red light, too crazy for us lets just wait till they kill someone else."
Maybe we should just create spear gun that fires penetrating tracking darts, so instead of chasing people we just shoot tracking darts into their car and follow it from the station :v:
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42795860]Maybe we should just create spear gun that fires penetrating tracking darts, so instead of chasing people we just shoot tracking darts into their car and follow it from the station :v:[/QUOTE] That's actually literally a thing! [URL="http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/31/starchase_police_gps_cannon_system_aims_to_stop_dangerous_high_speed_chases.html"]It's in that article I posted.[/URL] [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Snapster;42795856]They aren't going to be like "Hey, this guy ran a red light, too crazy for us lets just wait till they kill someone else."[/QUOTE] As soon as the guy stops hearing sirens he won't be running lights and speeding though. [url]http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/march-2010/evidence-based-decisions-on-police-pursuits[/url] [QUOTE]One of the more interesting findings from the suspects concerned their willingness to slow down when the police stopped chasing them. Approximately 75 percent reported that they would slow down when they felt safe. They explained that on average, they would have “to be free from the police show of authority by emergency lights or siren for approximately two blocks in town...and 2.5 miles on a freeway.”11 In other words, suspects who have fled from the police report that once the officer terminates the pursuit, they will slow down within a reasonable period.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795873]That's actually literally a thing! [URL="http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/31/starchase_police_gps_cannon_system_aims_to_stop_dangerous_high_speed_chases.html"]It's in that article I posted.[/URL] [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] As soon as the guy stops hearing sirens he won't be running lights and speeding though.[/QUOTE] How do you know that? All he is thinking the cops are after me I gotta get away I can not get in trouble or go to jail. He has adrenaline and his heart is beating, unless he is pro at handling that he won't just slow down thats why he ran in the first place and make dumb decisions.
I believe the reason you guys are having a hard time with this is the innate human instinct to make a situation bifurcated. The kid was at fault yes. He was the most at fault. The cops just did not help and exacerbated. It is hard for humans to sympathize when the victim is mostly to blame, even if it's just one criticism of another party. So I'd like to direct your attention to this case in which a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristie's_Law"]15 year old girl was struck and killed by an unrelated car chase that resulted from - yup - someone taking their parent's car.[/URL] Perhaps then you can overcome bias and examine my point more objectively. [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Snapster;42795895]How do you know that? [/QUOTE] well... [QUOTE=Snapster;42795895]All he is thinking the cops are after me I gotta get away I can not get in trouble or go to jail. He has adrenaline and his heart is beating, unless he is pro at handling that he won't just slow down thats why he ran in the first place and make dumb decisions.[/QUOTE] how do you know THAT? [url]http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/march-2010/evidence-based-decisions-on-police-pursuits[/url] [QUOTE] One of the more interesting findings from the suspects concerned their willingness to slow down when the police stopped chasing them. Approximately 75 percent reported that they would slow down when they felt safe. They explained that on average, they would have “to be free from the police show of authority by emergency lights or siren for approximately two blocks in town...and 2.5 miles on a freeway.”11 In other words, suspects who have fled from the police report that once the officer terminates the pursuit, they will slow down within a reasonable period.[/QUOTE]
You literally cannot predict the outcome of every situation with pinpoint accuracy, even 90% for that matter. The simple fact is that if people commit crimes, they don't want to be caught. Some of them will do anything it takes, be it hostage-taking, human shields, threat of murdering a kidnap victim, reckless endangerment of lives by high-speed chases, attacking officers with deadly force and intent to kill, and so forth. get this - people may be willing to negotiate in hopes of a lesser sentence if they get caught for a crime, but they won't be apologetic about it either before or after if they don't feel the need to do so. Most criminals don't really care about those around them after the commission of a crime, all they will be interested in is how to cover it up as best as they can, or how to get away without being caught. Several murderers have already proven they don't care for the lives of other human beings, why should one more or less as a side effect matter to them?
The unpredictability and the narrowed focus of escape in the suspects is precisely the reason encouraging them to flee is a bad move
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795873]That's actually literally a thing! [URL="http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/31/starchase_police_gps_cannon_system_aims_to_stop_dangerous_high_speed_chases.html"]It's in that article I posted.[/URL] [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] As soon as the guy stops hearing sirens he won't be running lights and speeding though.[/QUOTE] You seem to have this misconception that the cops accidentally kill the innocent. Sorry, but they stay their distance until its safe to close in. Who the suspect ends up killing is not the fault of law enforcement.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;42795947]You seem to have this misconception that the cops accidentally kill the innocent. Sorry, but they stay their distance until its safe to close in. What the driver they are chasing does is not their fault.[/QUOTE] okay you aren't reading correctly or something because what you just said makes no sense in the context of anything I've been saying. your focus is too narrow. you are dwelling on this case and these circumstances and not looking at any big picture or overarching concept and that is why you are confused. your commitment to this story and bifurcating it is causing you to perceive my view as something that is not even close to the reality of what I am saying. please make an attempt to read the following file: [url]http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/march-2010/evidence-based-decisions-on-police-pursuits[/url] then read this case to approach the exact same situation but without the same outcome and resulting bias [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristie's_Law[/url]
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795931]The unpredictability and the narrowed focus of escape in the suspects is precisely the reason encouraging them to flee is a bad move[/QUOTE] Perps don't need a reason to encourage themselves to flee, they know what will happen if they get caught, and it's precisely to avoid those consequences that sometimes leads to situations like this. We can speak on the situation until doomsday, but as far as I'm concerned, we can try to minimize bad shit happening, but as it is now we aren't going to ever get a 100% resolution of capturing a fleeing perp without something happening as a result of the chase. Most perps will usually also be of the mindset 'one against all and all for one, and damn whoever else that gets in the way.'
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;42795965]but as it is now we aren't going to ever get a 100% resolution of capturing a fleeing perp without something happening as a result of the chase. [/QUOTE] yeah that's why you stop chasing them exactly
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42795984]yeah that's why you stop chasing them exactly[/QUOTE] How would you ever capture a fleeing subject if you just give up chase? That doesn't make sense, the police have to give chase to a subject they don't know who it is to capture them.
[QUOTE=Snapster;42796016]How would you ever capture a fleeing subject if you just give up chase? That doesn't make sense, the police have to give chase to a subject they don't know who it is to capture them.[/QUOTE] sometimes you don't and that's an acceptable loss to maximize the safety of civilians [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] Our entire justice system is based on the idea that it's better to let a guilty man free than punish an innocent one. Too often police chases punish innocent ones.
Venezuelan's idea of law enforcement: Police officer: Please stop sir. Criminal: No, fuck you. * Runs. * Police officer *Brief chase* Please stop sir. Criminal: Nope not stopping. Police officer: Okay. :( Have a nice day.
[QUOTE=HkSniper;42796074]Venezuelan's idea of law enforcement: Police officer: Please stop sir. Criminal: No, fuck you. * Runs. * Police officer *Brief chase* Please stop sir. Criminal: Nope not stopping. Police officer: Okay. :( Have a nice day.[/QUOTE] Actually it's the FBI's and most Police Department's but okay.........
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42796026]sometimes you don't and that's an acceptable loss to maximize the safety of civilians [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] Our entire justice system is based on the idea that it's better to let a guilty man free than punish an innocent one. Too often police chases punish innocent ones.[/QUOTE] Your argument makes no sense. You say let the guy go for 'safety' But you forget that the guy is a criminal and has already done things to harm others. With your logic, if someone steals a car, lets just let him go for safety. Maybe we will never catch the guy, maybe that car will be stripped for parts and never recovered. Perhaps the owners insurance will refuse to cover his stolen car and he will recieve nothing. But hey, thats all a part of giving civilians 'safety' Lets not forget the guy who ignored a cross walk, ran over several people and killed them. Lets not chase him, maybe some day we will happen to find him
What's with the recent uptrend in police shootings reports lately
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42796026]sometimes you don't and that's an acceptable loss to maximize the safety of civilians [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] Our entire justice system is based on the idea that it's better to let a guilty man free than punish an innocent one. Too often police chases punish innocent ones.[/QUOTE] Police have to show their power and chase after criminals that don't follow the laws. If police don't chase and go after criminals, people will just think that they can do anything or whatever they want and get away with it.
[QUOTE=FordLord;42796116]Your argument makes no sense. You say let the guy go for 'safety' But you forget that the guy is a criminal and has already done things to harm others. With your logic, if someone steals a car, lets just let him go for safety. Maybe we will never catch the guy, maybe that car will be stripped for parts and never recovered. Perhaps the owners insurance will refuse to cover his stolen car and he will recieve nothing. But hey, thats all a part of giving civilians 'safety' Lets not forget the guy who ignored a cross walk, ran over several people and killed them. Lets not chase him, maybe some day we will happen to find him[/QUOTE] I have said multiple times violent crime is different. If you're going to be late to the party at least take the time to read and catch up, thanks sport. But yes, let him get away with theft of a material possession if chasing him is risking human lives I don't see why that'd so crazy are we that materialistic in this country? [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Snapster;42796125]Police have to show their power and chase after criminals that don't follow the laws. If police don't chase and go after criminals, people will just think that they can do anything or whatever they want and get away with it.[/QUOTE] again, a few dicks dodging responsibility for petty crimes is an acceptable compromise when someone dies from a chase [I]every single day[/I] Oh wait actually, no, I forgot, FBI had something on this too [QUOTE] In addition, research has shown that if the police refrain from chasing all offenders or terminate their pursuits, no significant increase in the number of suspects who flee would occur.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Snapster;42796016]How would you ever capture a fleeing subject if you just give up chase? That doesn't make sense, the police have to give chase to a subject they don't know who it is to capture them.[/QUOTE] Well we could install GPS / Killswitches in every new car, mandate them, and give the tools to use them to Law Enforcement. That's kinda infringing on people's rights a bit though, that'll probably upset way more people than old fashion police pursuits will.
FacePunch: The police should have done [I]x[/I] station.
[QUOTE=Snapster;42796016]How would you ever capture a fleeing subject if you just give up chase?[/QUOTE] oh yeah and also [url]http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/31/starchase_police_gps_cannon_system_aims_to_stop_dangerous_high_speed_chases.html[/url] [QUOTE]from remote controlled spike strips and SQUIDs to a targeted electromagnetic pulse[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Then, through a tiny door in the car’s grill, a laser-targeted air cannon fires a sticky GPS tag that harmlessly adheres to the target vehicle. With the tag in place, officers can back off or stop chasing the car entirely—the latter of which might convince the perp that the police have given up and convince him to pull over somewhere safe. All the while, cops can monitor the tag in near-real time on a digital roadmap.[/QUOTE] seriously guys 4th time I've posted this I feel like a broken record. Do your homework
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42796179]oh yeah and also [url]http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/31/starchase_police_gps_cannon_system_aims_to_stop_dangerous_high_speed_chases.html[/url] seriously guys 4th time I've posted this I feel like a broken record. Do your homework[/QUOTE] What if the criminal goes to a mall or crowded place and runs onfoot? How would this gps help them now after they backed off and looking at the roadmap? [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42796158]Well we could install GPS / Killswitches in every new car, mandate them, and give the tools to use them to Law Enforcement. That's kinda infringing on people's rights a bit though, that'll probably upset way more people than old fashion police pursuits will.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure GM has or was thinking of doing this to their onstar program. [url]http://www.gadgetreview.com/2009/07/gm-adds-remote-kill-switch-to-onstar-vehicles.html[/url] cool snazzy video [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e_ZeYy3qjs[/media]
[QUOTE=Snapster;42796200]What if the criminal goes to a mall or crowded place and runs onfoot? How would this gps help them now after they backed off and looking at the roadmap?[/QUOTE] A) Inform the patrolmen in that area who should now be able to take him done easily and safely assuming you have a description and they can find him B) Why would he even do that the GPS thing is silent he wouldn't know he has it, it is far more likely he thinks he's safe and stops somewhere off guard C) Oh well someone got away criminals get away this isn't TV at least no one got killed because that guy dodged his speeding ticket
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42796179]oh yeah and also [url]http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/31/starchase_police_gps_cannon_system_aims_to_stop_dangerous_high_speed_chases.html[/url] seriously guys 4th time I've posted this I feel like a broken record. Do your homework[/QUOTE] Dont know about you guys, but id notice if a gps tag were on my car. Pull over, take it off. Hell, stick it on another car and send them on a wild goose chase. Spike strips really arent a solution, especially when you give up on a chase. EMP devices are just a disaster waiting to happen. The truck in this case weighs 5500+lbs. And i know from experience that those trucks are hard to steer and brake without power Your argument is incredibly flawed. [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Venezuelan;42796224]A) Inform the patrolmen in that area who should now be able to take him done easily and safely assuming you have a description and they can find him B) Why would he even do that the GPS thing is silent he wouldn't know he has it, it is far more likely he thinks he's safe and stops somewhere off guard C) Oh well someone got away criminals get away this isn't TV at least no one got killed because that guy dodged his speeding ticket[/QUOTE] Chances are, the cops wont have a description of the guy. When a guy goes flying by a cop, he might be lucky enough to get the color of his skin and shirt. Not exactly helpful.
[QUOTE=FordLord;42796252]Dont know about you guys, but id notice if a gps tag were on my car. Pull over, take it off. Hell, stick it on another car and send them on a wild goose chase. Spike strips really arent a solution, especially when you give up on a chase. EMP devices are just a disaster waiting to happen. The truck in this case weighs 5500+lbs. And i know from experience that those trucks are hard to steer and brake without power Your argument is incredibly flawed.[/QUOTE] you would notice the gps tag while you are driving? how, with your psychic powers? also yeah good idea stop and get out of the car so they can arrest you you realize they can safely tail you by like two blocks right [editline]8th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=FordLord;42796252] Chances are, the cops wont have a description of the guy. When a guy goes flying by a cop, he might be lucky enough to get the color of his skin and shirt. Not exactly helpful.[/QUOTE] in this case they did. It would be rare I agree.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42796263]you would notice the gps tag while you are driving? how, with your psychic powers? also yeah good idea stop and get out of the car so they can arrest you you realize they can safely tail you by like two blocks right[/QUOTE] Everytime i get out of my car, i do a quick inspection. If they are right behind me, what is the point of a gps tracker? From what i can find, two city blocks is about 1/4 of a mile. Every where ive been, you can usually just look in your mirror and see that far. With that in mind, if a cop pulls up close enough to shoot a gps tracker, then backs off 1/4 mile and keeps following, its pretty safe to say that he did put a tracker on you
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