• Neo-Nazi rally in LA met with violent counter-protests
    180 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rubs10;21430270] People must think you're a real freaking prick, ya know that? [/QUOTE] People must know you're a total prick if you think you have the mind to judge who can and cannot speak.
I don't see why these people resorted to violence. Sure I disagree with Nazism, but freedom of speech and protest is a brilliant constitutional right that everyone deserves; regardless of beliefs, opinions, religion, etc.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;21426014]Herp Derp, I totally don't support people beating the shit out of people who support a man who killed [B]6 million people.[/B][/QUOTE] The jews weren't the only ones killed in the holocaust.
[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;21430392]People must know you're a total prick if you think you have the mind to judge who can and cannot speak.[/QUOTE] Well, let's be honest, you judge people too. So I'm guessing that you've never seen a hate protest before or even read any articles about their activities and what they lead too? Well if you have and you fall under any catagory they protest, then you know what kind of negative emotion they generate. It's like the kid saying that war is cool, so he joins the military and is in for a rude awakening. [QUOTE=mastermaul;21432007]The jews weren't the only ones killed in the holocaust.[/QUOTE] Oh, I forgot that 6 million only included Jews. Well it's even worse then, considering you add in gays, gypsies, handicapped, old people, and catholics. [QUOTE=Bredirish123;21431443]I don't see why these people resorted to violence. Sure I disagree with Nazism, but freedom of speech and protest is a brilliant constitutional right that everyone deserves; regardless of beliefs, opinions, religion, etc.[/QUOTE] Well, until the message they're spreading involves killing everyone else that isn't like you, sure, it's fantastic. And I don't want to kill them, I only want to strip them of their right to go to the government and request to protest if they're going to spread a message of hate. [QUOTE=Carbon Knight;21432271]No. I said you think you can judge who should speak and who shouldn't[/QUOTE] Opinions. I have said multiple times that my entire argument was based on my opinion. Mixed in with facts and logic. But I think most laws on civil rights are based on opinion. For instance, the law that gays shouldn't be able to marry is based on opinion.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;21432221]Well, let's be honest, you judge people too. [/QUOTE] No. I said you think you can judge who should speak and who shouldn't
I may not support nazism (infact I outright despise it and speak out against it, even though my mild fascination with Nazi science, culture, occultism and officials may lead some to think otherwise), but I'm glad I live in a nation in which those who do support it can say so, and are even given protection to be allowed to do so.
[QUOTE=Detective P;21432371]I may not support nazism (infact I outright despise it and speak out against it, even though my mild fascination with Nazi science, culture, occultism and officials may lead some to think otherwise), but I'm glad I live in a nation in which those who do support it can say so, and are even given protection to be allowed to do so.[/QUOTE] But what people aren't realizing, is that it's not just a protest and idea. These "Protest" are practically recruitment drives. You do know that the KKK, Neo-Nazis, and White Supremecist are responsible for multiple killings, right? [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1554639/KKK-member-guilty-of-Mississippi-murders.html[/url] [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8537861.stm[/url] [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL0587773820080505[/url] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6419739/Ku-Klux-Klan-a-violent-history.html[/url] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/search/?queryText=kkk[/url] [url]http://www.rickross.com/groups/kkk.html[/url] These people [I]are not[/I] harmless protestors. That's like saying the military is non-lethal because you saw recruitment officers and they didn't have any guns.
It doesn't matter, my point was that these [i]protests[/i], which are common and usually do not involve violence, are protected, rightfully, under law, and I am glad that it is so, because all peoples have a right to make their ideas and messages heard, regardless of what they are, as they believe it to be right. Even if it seems so obvious to us that it's not, you would still wish to have the same right given to you. I'm not saying they aren't violent, and these groups aren't malevolent- where you got the opinion I did is beyond me- but they have a right to fight for what thy believe to be right by peaceful means, and as long as those means remain peaceful, they are rightfully protected until they turn violent.
[QUOTE=thisispain;21430165]wow a lot of people sure hate us jews[/QUOTE] You aren't Jewish if you're atheist.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;21430094]Exactly, you don't want freespeech! People are people you can't [B]control what they think.[/B] Believe what you want, but only say things if it's good. That's some horrible logic man.[/QUOTE] Yes you can. The media do it all the time. So does the government. And especially the people who rallied these fascist pigs. The way you're brought up often controls, or affects what you think on a large scale as well.
[QUOTE=Detective P;21432916]It doesn't matter, my point was that these [i]protests[/i], which are common and usually do not involve violence, are protected, rightfully, under law, and I am glad that it is so, because all peoples have a right to make their ideas and messages heard, regardless of what they are, as they believe it to be right. Even if it seems so obvious to us that it's not, you would still wish to have the same right given to you. I'm not saying they aren't violent, and these groups aren't malevolent- where you got the opinion I did is beyond me- but they have a right to fight for what thy believe to be right by peaceful means, and as long as those means remain peaceful, they are rightfully protected until they turn violent.[/QUOTE] So you're saying that even though letting them protest is going to get more members and lead to more killings and more opposition for civil rights, it's ok as long as we uphold the current law as it stands? The law is flawed in my opinion and I'm arguing for it to change. I'm not trying to kill people or ban speaking out against the government. I'm the one trying to diminish the killers and criminals. What are [I]you[/I] doing? Upholding your blind views of justice of liberty? The ones that Uncle Sam taught you that made this country so great? Just because it gives everyone freedoms, doesn't make it perfect. [QUOTE=Reborn9;21433242]Yes you can. The media do it all the time. So does the government. And especially the people who rallied these fascist pigs. The way you're brought up often controls, or affects what you think on a large scale as well.[/QUOTE] Yes. The media, politics, parents, teachers, other kids, anyone in general influence your thinking. The kids of these white supremicist will probably go on to be white supremicist themselves.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;21433236]You aren't Jewish if you're atheist.[/QUOTE] who said so? Semitics are like any other ethnic group
[QUOTE=bravehat;21428081]Seriously, your defending the fact that people showed up at a protest and then proceeded to beat the protesters?[/QUOTE] If you feel that my standpoint is unreasonable it should be easy to provide arguments that counter it. You're making assumptions about me and judging me based on them when I have provided a solid post full of logical arguments. Address them instead of the mental image you have of me. [QUOTE=bravehat;21428081]And your assuming that the Neo Nazis are radicals, just because they protest doesn't mean that they are going to go and kill someone.[/QUOTE] I'm assuming that their mindset is similar to that of the anti-protesters', which is a sane assumption even though their ideologies differ. The reasoning for this I gave in my previous post.
I wish people would stop referring to them as National Socialists
[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;21434426]I wish people would stop referring to them as National Socialists[/QUOTE] Why? One neo-nazi group literally call them selves the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_%28United_States%29]Nation Socialist Movement.[/url]
[QUOTE=Rubs10;21433295]So you're saying that even though letting them protest is going to get more members and lead to more killings and more opposition for civil rights, it's ok as long as we uphold the current law as it stands? The law is flawed in my opinion and I'm arguing for it to change. I'm not trying to kill people or ban speaking out against the government. I'm the one trying to diminish the killers and criminals. What are [I]you[/I] doing? Upholding your blind views of justice of liberty? The ones that Uncle Sam taught you that made this country so great? Just because it gives everyone freedoms, doesn't make it perfect. Yes. The media, politics, parents, teachers, other kids, anyone in general influence your thinking. The kids of these white supremicist will probably go on to be white supremicist themselves.[/QUOTE]Good luck, if you want the ability to suppress what you deem is hateful and what isn't, you should try going to Germany since they do it pretty well. I doubt you'll get much done in the US.
[QUOTE=MercZ;21429944]This is generally what they do in their rallies [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swukpgmuqr0[/media][/QUOTE] Did he just accuse Mexican immigrants of eating food they didn't plant? hahaha Also, they shouldn't beat on the Nazis in principle but in practice it's pretty funny
[QUOTE=Rubs10;21433295]So you're saying that even though letting them protest is going to get more members and lead to more killings and more opposition for civil rights, it's ok as long as we uphold the current law as it stands? The law is flawed in my opinion and I'm arguing for it to change. I'm not trying to kill people or ban speaking out against the government. I'm the one trying to diminish the killers and criminals. What are [I]you[/I] doing? Upholding your blind views of justice of liberty? The ones that Uncle Sam taught you that made this country so great? Just because it gives everyone freedoms, doesn't make it perfect. Yes. The media, politics, parents, teachers, other kids, anyone in general influence your thinking. The kids of these white supremicist will probably go on to be white supremicist themselves.[/QUOTE] It's ironic that the very thing you're arguing for is exactly what these Nazis want. We can not limit the freedom of speech, for no group, regardless how hateful and violent. How do we discriminate what groups are bad? What groups are violent? Where do we draw the line? Are nazis bad? Communists? Socialists? Democrats? Anti-tax? Violent groups have every right, too. Revolutions or all kinds flourish thanks to the ability of communication. The American Revolution would have been nigh if the ability to speak out against Britain and publicly insight revolution had been hindered any more than it was. And don't pull some Uncle Sam stuff on me, I'm a marxist and a noted outspeaker against American policies- but if there is one thing this nation has right (and there are many, don't get me wrong), it's that we freely allow the ability of open speech to everyone.
[QUOTE=Shugo589;21436148]Good luck, if you want the ability to suppress what you deem is hateful and what isn't, you should try going to Germany since they do it pretty well. I doubt you'll get much done in the US.[/QUOTE] Maybe I won't get anything done. Yeah, I know, Germany does suppress these groups. You're acting like it's bad that I deem a group bad because they kill people and then support it. [QUOTE=Detective P;21437425]It's ironic that the very thing you're arguing for is exactly what these Nazis want. We can not limit the freedom of speech, for no group, regardless how hateful and violent. How do we discriminate what groups are bad? What groups are violent? Where do we draw the line? Are nazis bad? Communists? Socialists? Democrats? Anti-tax? Violent groups have every right, too. Revolutions or all kinds flourish thanks to the ability of communication. The American Revolution would have been nigh if the ability to speak out against Britain and publicly insight revolution had been hindered any more than it was. And don't pull some Uncle Sam stuff on me, I'm a marxist and a noted outspeaker against American policies- but if there is one thing this nation has right (and there are many, don't get me wrong), it's that we freely allow the ability of open speech to everyone.[/QUOTE] Well, you can debate whether a group that murders is bad all you want to.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;21437531]Maybe I won't get anything done. Yeah, I know, Germany does suppress these groups. You're acting like it's bad that I deem a group bad because they kill people and then support it. [/QUOTE] No, it's bad that you support people that attack others based on their ideology.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;21437531]Maybe I won't get anything done. Yeah, I know, Germany does suppress these groups. You're acting like it's bad that I deem a group bad because they kill people and then support it. Well, you can debate whether a group that murders is bad all you want to.[/QUOTE] Go live in fascist Germany. Seriously. You'll get your fill of limitation of civil rights. No dangerous groups there, nope! You cannot remove the ability for one group to speak, without consequently harming all other groups. And following that, you need to learn the distinction between speech and action.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;21437531]Maybe I won't get anything done. Yeah, I know, Germany does suppress these groups. You're acting like it's bad that I deem a group bad because they kill people and then support it. [/QUOTE] Nah they're pretty bad too, but freedom of speech is one damn strong foundation. It won't get changed anytime soon.
[QUOTE=Detective P;21437629]Go live in fascist Germany.[/QUOTE] Several decades late there buddy
[QUOTE=TH89;21437664]Several decades late there buddy[/QUOTE] Some would argue otherwise, the way Germany is going now. But yes, fortunately so.
I applaud Neo-Nazi's in their successful attempts to draw out the violent immigrants who will serve as an example to all other immigrants. Animals.
[QUOTE=Stany01;21437875]I applaud Neo-Nazi's in their successful attempts to draw out the violent immigrants who will serve as an example to all other immigrants. Animals.[/QUOTE] Oh hi there Derek Vinyard.
[QUOTE=Detective P;21437425]It's ironic that the very thing you're arguing for is exactly what these Nazis want.[/QUOTE] Actually what they want is to get rid of all Jews
[QUOTE=TH89;21437902]Actually what they want is to get rid of all Jews[/QUOTE] And Gypsies, and homosexuals, and the disabled, and the intellectuals, and pretty much everyone who isn't an Aryan.
Ok, I won't exactly get anyting done by debating on the internet. So I figure the smartest thing to do is to just stop. Who seriously got anywhere in an internet debate? [QUOTE=TH89;21437902]Actually what they want is to get rid of all Jews[/QUOTE] Hehe.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;21438006]Ok, I won't exactly get anyting done by debating on the internet. So I figure the smartest thing to do is to just stop. Who seriously got anywhere in an internet debate? Hehe.[/QUOTE] Took you all of 5 seconds to break that rule.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.