[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];35763625']I can't exactly afford to strike, luckily I wasn't scheduled on May Day. I support the strike in its entirety, because, after all, it's May Day- but I won't be participating. I put off my membership with the IWW just to avoid having to do this strike.
I do support OWS and I support their messages and goals. The goal of a general strike is economic sabotage, secondarily, but more importantly it's a show that the people as a whole can make an impact on those in power and those in economic control. It's less about tangible results as it is about the message. Only problem is it won't work without full support.[/QUOTE]
Unions won't officially call for a general strike, because it's illegal, but they'll encourage their members to take the day off and participate in denomstrations. The same phenomenon was observed in Oakland on November 2nd. Among the Occupiers closing the port were the port workers themselves.
Protesting ain't gonna do jack until someone throws themselves under a horse.
[QUOTE=Coffee;35763767]Protesting ain't gonna do jack until someone throws themselves under a horse.[/QUOTE]
It started out with peaceful demonstrations and marches, and now it's moving up a notch to a full blown strike. Greece has been in a constant state of revolt for 4 years now, with no revolution. It takes time, building up, and consciousness.
[QUOTE=Baldr 2.0;35763809]Holly shit we still have them?[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if I want to hear that from a guy with an obviously racist avatar.
[QUOTE=prooboo;35763336]the workers of Petrograd in 1917?[/QUOTE]
The people that rose up and murdered their entire government and it's member's families, then replaced it with an even more corrupted government that struggled along for 80 years before falling pathetically?
[QUOTE=Ridge;35763851]The people that rose up and murdered their entire government and it's member's families, then replaced it with an even more corrupted government that struggled along for 80 years before falling pathetically?[/QUOTE]
If you're referring to the Royal Family, they were killed because the White counter-revolutionaries were approaching and they would of taken the family to restore them to power. Also, the USSR under Lenin was may less "corrupted" than Imperial or February Revolutionary Russia. States become "corrupted" under material conditions, the USSR was surrounded by internal and external enemies (in fact, the west invaded it!), had economic and agricultural issues due to a lack of modernization, and damage was caused by years of war.
[QUOTE=Ridge;35763851]The people that rose up and murdered their entire government and it's member's families, then replaced it with an even more corrupted government that struggled along for 80 years before falling pathetically?[/QUOTE]
Which Revolution are we talking? The February Revolution, where the general strike actually was used as a proper tool and had little bloodshed from the revolters, or the October Coup which saw the murder and death of millions in the resulting civil war?
Because if it's the former, there was no set of clear demands, nor excessive violence.
If it's the latter, then there was a set of specific demands and there was excessive violence.
[editline]29th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35763900]If you're referring to the Royal Family, they were killed because the White counter-revolutionaries were approaching and they would of taken the family to restore them to power. Also, the USSR under Lenin was may less "corrupted" than Imperial or February Revolutionary Russia. States become "corrupted" under material conditions, the USSR was surrounded by internal and external enemies (in fact, the west invaded it!), had economic and agricultural issues due to a lack of modernization, and damage was caused by years of war.[/QUOTE]
I'd disagree that the Kerensky government was corrupt, but I'd say even the despotic forces of War Communism were a preferable alternative to the corrupt and diseased government of the Tsar.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];35763920']Which Revolution are we talking? The February Revolution, where the general strike actually was used as a proper tool and had little bloodshed from the revolters, or the October Coup which saw the murder and death of millions in the resulting civil war?
Because if it's the former, there was no set of clear demands, nor excessive violence.
If it's the latter, then there was a set of specific demands and there was excessive violence.
[editline]29th April 2012[/editline]
I'd disagree that the Kerensky government was corrupt, but I'd say even the despotic forces of War Communism were a preferable alternative to the corrupt and diseased government of the Tsar.[/QUOTE]
There's a reason that most workers in the city joined the Bolsheviks and Death Batallion, who were supposed to defend him to the death, joined the Bolsheviks as soon as the revolution started.
yeah i'm sure that will go over well
come into work the next day: "You're fired."
come into school the next day: "You have detention for the next 2 weeks."
Even if they had an organized, coherent set of demands/greivances, it still wouldn't go anywhere with the everyday person, much less the government. Yes, we need change, but the occupy movement is not the way to do it.
Ehh May 1st? I got exams that day, can we postpone?
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;35764077]Even if they had an organized, coherent set of demands/greivances, it still wouldn't go anywhere with the everyday person, much less the government. Yes, we need change, but the occupy movement is not the way to do it.[/QUOTE]
You're right about the first part, wrong about the last sentence. The Occupy movement is a popular reaction to the savageness of capital.
[QUOTE=Zareox7;35764160]Ehh May 1st? I got exams that day, can we postpone?[/QUOTE]
Demonstrations will be ongoing during and after your exams, most likely.
Well, I'll be interested to see how big this gets, though I won't personally be participating. I have a wedding and a child to save up for after all.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;35763346]They have done so in the past, several times in fact.[/QUOTE]
Never an official one. No one can work or do anything with the movement unless they have some. Virtually ever movement like this in the past has had a relative clear set of demands on the onset. Often enough these were unatainable andthe movements grew from popular support to topple the current system.
The occupy movement in contrast is disjointed, disorganised, unclear on a demand list and by far doesn't have the popular support needed for growing up in the same ways as those historical movements. Basically they lack either thing to succeed. - Unilateral public support and or actual measures and systems in place to push forward.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;35764028]yeah i'm sure that will go over well
come into work the next day: "You're fired."
come into school the next day: "You have detention for the next 2 weeks."[/QUOTE]
Learn to call in sick.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35764294]Learn to call in sick.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, only works if you have a friendly doctor who writes you anything on a piece of paper.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;35764317]Yeah, only works if you have a friendly doctor who writes you anything on a piece of paper.[/QUOTE]
Not many bosses actually ask for doctor notes, considering one doesn't always go to the doctor when they're sick
[B]edit:[/B]
[IMG]http://sfbayview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Occupy-Oakland-General-Strike-shutting-down-Port-110211.jpg[/IMG]
This was a march on the port of Oakland during the Occupy (yes, Occupy) Oakland general strike. Cops said 6,000 people were present, but it easily dwarfed that. The highest estimate was 30,000 and that seems more likely. Don't act like Occupy isn't popular.
There was also up to 40 thousand people at OWS on N17 and up to 50 thousand on 15O.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35764337]Not many bosses actually ask for doctor notes, considering one doesn't always go to the doctor when they're sick
[B]edit:[/B]
[IMG]http://sfbayview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Occupy-Oakland-General-Strike-shutting-down-Port-110211.jpg[/IMG]
This was a march on the port of Oakland during the Occupy (yes, Occupy) Oakland general strike. Cops said 6,000 people were present, but it easily dwarfed that. The highest estimate was 30,000 and that seems more likely. Don't act like Occupy isn't popular.[/QUOTE]
It depends on the occassion. If your boss|supervisor whatever knows about you supporting the movement, they'll almost definitely want one.
Same for schools - in most cases they won't want one ifi t's a day or two. But the moment this happens on an exam day, they'll want it.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;35764368]It depends on the occassion. If your boss|supervisor whatever knows about you supporting the movement, they'll almost definitely want one.
Same for schools - in most cases they won't want one ifi t's a day or two. But the moment this happens on an exam day, they'll want it.[/QUOTE]
If you have exams, no one is encouraging you to not take them. If you have the ability to join the strike, do it, if not, demonstrate after work. It's what a lot of people will be doing.
go to rally, play this song
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj-tQ09IJ5w[/media]
Can't strike without a job. And it'd be nice if one could get a job, but the economy isn't doing fairly well, is it?
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35763384]Petty vandalism does nothing but cause a massive PR disaster. Not to say I have sympathy with the targets of anarchic riots - banks, corporate property, etc., but it does more harm than good.[/QUOTE]
Yeah the student protest in Quebec right now shot itself in the foot when they didn't condemn the people smashing windows, vandalizing property, and throwing rocks and other things at police (during one protest they also apparently injured bystanders). Not to mention trying some of them comparing themselves at the same level of the Civil Rights Movement and the Arab Spring. Also there isn't a clear enough list of demands, some want tuition to stay where it is, some want it abolished, some want to talk about social injustice, some want anarchy. I feel that the Occupy movement has the same problem of having tons of people being "apart" of it, yet there not being a consensus on what they actually want.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35764337]Not many bosses actually ask for doctor notes, considering one doesn't always go to the doctor when they're sick
[B]edit:[/B]
[IMG]http://sfbayview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Occupy-Oakland-General-Strike-shutting-down-Port-110211.jpg[/IMG]
This was a march on the port of Oakland during the Occupy (yes, Occupy) Oakland general strike. Cops said 6,000 people were present, but it easily dwarfed that. The highest estimate was 30,000 and that seems more likely. Don't act like Occupy isn't popular.
There was also up to 40 thousand people at OWS on N17 and up to 50 thousand on 15O.[/QUOTE]
Oakland is an exception though. Oakland is really its own entity, anyhow. Their tactics and goals are even more radical than normal OWS.
[QUOTE=markfu;35764520]Yeah the student protest in Quebec right now shot itself in the foot when they didn't condemn the people smashing windows, vandalizing property, and throwing rocks and other things at police (during one protest they also apparently injured bystanders). Not to mention trying some of them comparing themselves at the same level of the Civil Rights Movement and the Arab Spring. Also there isn't a clear enough list of demands, some want tuition to stay where it is, some want it abolished, some want to talk about social injustice, some want anarchy. I feel that the Occupy movement has the same problem of having tons of people being "apart" of it, yet there not being a consensus on what they actually want.[/QUOTE]
The students movement in Quebec was going to negotiate with the government, but the government fucked up and the strike continues. Also, there was mad instigations by police (including shooting a man in the chest with tear gas at point blank).
Also, education is a human right, tuition divides classes much like racism, so how is it not radically far off from the Civil Rights Movement.
Education is a basic human right as guaranteed by the United Nation's General Assembly approved Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
[QUOTE=_jesterk;35763268]Here we go again.[/QUOTE]
dear lord people try to do something about the increasingly degeneration of our COUNTRY! THEY WONT GET ANYWHERE WHAT A BUNCH OF LAZY BASTARDS AHAHA I BETTER POST MY OPINION ON A INTERNET FORUM THAT'LL SHOW EM!
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
[editline]29th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;35764396]go to rally, play this song
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj-tQ09IJ5w[/media][/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzs-4kY4REc[/media]
[QUOTE=XIII;35765748]The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.[/QUOTE]
not applicable
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;35765843]not applicable[/QUOTE]
Very applicable. It's my opinion on this whole OWS movement.
[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;35764396]go to rally, play this song
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj-tQ09IJ5w[/media][/QUOTE]
because we're still in the death throes of a recession, and the employment market is increasingly savage and harsh?
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35764337]Not many bosses actually ask for doctor notes, considering one doesn't always go to the doctor when they're sick
[B]edit:[/B]
[IMG]http://sfbayview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Occupy-Oakland-General-Strike-shutting-down-Port-110211.jpg[/IMG]
This was a march on the port of Oakland during the Occupy (yes, Occupy) Oakland general strike. Cops said 6,000 people were present, but it easily dwarfed that. The highest estimate was 30,000 and that seems more likely. Don't act like Occupy isn't popular.
There was also up to 40 thousand people at OWS on N17 and up to 50 thousand on 15O.[/QUOTE]
It was 2011. How the hell is that the best picture they have?
[QUOTE=Ridge;35766188]It was 2011. How the hell is that the best picture they have?[/QUOTE]
That was a [b]general strike[/b], not a basic demonstration. This will be a [b]general strike[/b], so I used a picture of a [b]general strike[/b] to represent what tommorow might look like.
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