[QUOTE=lotusking;35787258]hey guys lets go peacefully protest and then get mad when the police use excessive force, pepperspray, and beat the shit out of pregnant women.
also i just wanted to say you are one of the worst posters on facepunch ive ever seen.[/QUOTE]
You act like that is all the police have done.
Oh, this was yesterday?
Hahaha, I didn't see shit to do with this. Guess my city is long over this.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35789374]i'm just trying to say that there's an establishment that actively promotes two parties over another. Ron Paul's base didn't necessarily expand yet he garnered far more attention simply by being a republican instead of an independent.[/QUOTE]
Actually his base has pretty consistently expanded. His running as a Republican definitely helped. And you are right that there is an active promotion of two parties over one. But to say that that promotion is legal? That a third party [I]can't[/I] get elected? And to say that a third party systematically incapable and implying that it's useless to vote for a third party?
My point is that while you are right, in general, you are still quite wrong on your specifics and your reasoning.
[QUOTE]We call on everyone to join us: [B]No work![/B][/QUOTE]
On International Workers' Day?
[QUOTE=Faren;35789390]Oh, this was yesterday?
Hahaha, I didn't see shit to do with this. Guess my city is long over this.[/QUOTE]
This is today- May 1st. Well, today in America.
If you aren't in a major major city chances are you aren't seeing anything.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ast_risk;35789426]On International Workers' Day?[/QUOTE]
...yes. The point of a general strike is to show that workers command the economy, not employers.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;35787779]I dont think change is achievable through peaceful demonstrations - especially in a country so entrenched in its problems.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Gandhi and Martin Luther King never achieved anything through peaceful demonstrations in countries entrenched with problems, right?
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35789329]I feel more bad for the officers than the OWS protesters at this point. If you are in blue and so much as bump into a protester you will have forty videos on youtube hailing you as the oppressive arm of the system.[/QUOTE]
No, not really. Agitators have plenty of others video evidence if they want to expose the cops as bullies, it's already well known they work to impede you every step of the way anyway. Big turn-outs like this only add to the pressure, and they feel the fear.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;35787821]Wait, so may 1st isn't a holiday in the US?
It is here, and as far as I know, it's because of the Chicago riots.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not. The US government has its own holiday for the date, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty_Day]one meant to counterbalance the famous holiday, which came out of this country.[/url]
Also it has its own labor day, too.
[QUOTE=Ast_risk;35789448]Yeah, Gandhi and Martin Luther King never achieved anything through peaceful demonstrations in countries entrenched with problems, right?[/QUOTE]
Their change fits the ballot box, and didn't ask for much other than treating their people as equals, something very acceptable in a liberal-dominated world. What OWS and others stand for happens to be contradictory to the interests of the state, at least somewhat (both the liberals within OWS and to a lesser extent the state are uncertain what kind of movement this is).
[QUOTE=Spooter;35788922]Except to my knowledge most Americans are just as tired of the two parties and their candidates as Occupy is.[/QUOTE]
Tired of it in the same sense that the one lazy fat guy everybody knows is "tired of being fat", and will never actually bother to lay off the cheetos.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];35789435']This is today- May 1st. Well, today in America.
If you aren't in a major major city chances are you aren't seeing anything.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
...yes. The point of a general strike is to show that workers command the economy, not employers.[/QUOTE]
why would you bother saying that
I'm pretty sure I know what the date is in my part of the world
Anyway, I'm in the second-biggest city in Australia, soo...
Wow, so let me tell you guys what it's like to fucking be at Union Square on this day.
People and cops
FUCKING [B][I]EVERYWHERE[/I][/B]
along with oddly dressed people
[B][I]FUCKING EVERYWHERE[/I][/B]
I go to taco bell and guess who's there
[B][I]OWS protestors[/I][/B]
they were cool though. one of them was all "hey do you wanna be a black panther", and i was all "lol no thanks" and he was all "lol i'm not asking for a specific reason, they're just taking anyone now"
[QUOTE=Ast_risk;35789426]On International Workers' Day?[/QUOTE]Its "Law Day" and "Loyalty Day" in the U.S. We have nothing to do with International Workers' Day here in the states. In fact, we've actively fought against it in the past out of fear of Communist influence. [quote]In 1921, following the Russian Revolution of 1917, May 1 was promoted as "Americanization Day" by the Veterans of Foreign Wars and other groups as a counter to communists. It became an annual event, sometimes featuring large rallies. In 1949, Americanization Day was renamed to Loyalty Day. In 1958, the U.S. Congress declared Loyalty Day, the U.S. recognition of May 1, a national holiday; that same year, U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower proclaimed May 1 Law Day as well.[/quote]People have tried several times to get the U.S. to move our Labor Day to May 1 in line with the rest of the world, but it has always been rejected.
[QUOTE=Ast_risk;35789448]Yeah, Gandhi and Martin Luther King never achieved anything through peaceful demonstrations in countries entrenched with problems, right?[/QUOTE]
Both of them had time specific advantages, though: that of emerging media that was hungry for showing everything and was pretty free of censorship, and that these tactics were unheard of at the time. Now'a'days, you see these tactics alot. They're old school. The media is prone to favoritism and self-censorship for political promotion and goals. While people would have been shocked to see the passive actions of the Indians and blacks against their superior forces being shat on for doing little, because they would have never saw that before, now the media would actively censor violence, and only show what they wanted us to see. There is no more advantage from passive resistance and peaceful demonstration. That being said, I'm not saying violence is the answer.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;35789533]Its "Law Day" and "Loyalty Day" in the U.S. We have nothing to do with International Workers' Day here in the states. In fact, we've actively fought against it in the past out of fear of Communist influence. People have tried several times to get the U.S. to move our Labor Day to May 1 in line with the rest of the world, but it has always been rejected.[/QUOTE]
May Day is still Workers' Day and Immigrants' Day unofficially. just because it isn't government sanctioned doesn't mean shit.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Faren;35789476]why would you bother saying that
I'm pretty sure I know what the date is in my part of the world
Anyway, I'm in the second-biggest city in Australia, soo...[/QUOTE]
So it was tomorrow for you, right. I figured that you were mistaken, and in case you weren't I pointed out that this happened today in America, which is the focus of the OWS movement, mostly. You would have seen yours yesterday, and likely not from OWS. If anything, you would have seen regular May Day demonstrations, not nearly as large.
[QUOTE=Conscript;35789465]No, not really. Agitators have plenty of others video evidence if they want to expose the cops as bullies, it's already well known they work to impede you every step of the way anyway. Big turn-outs like this only add to the pressure, and they feel the fear.[/QUOTE]Its actually a point of fact that this has genuinely happened in the past (courtesy of everyone's favorite FBI [del]founder[/del] (he wasn't actually the founder) and director, J. Edgar Hoover). It was largely aimed at left-wing political and social groups, though anarchistic groups like the KKK were also grouped in. That's how the Black Panthers earned their reputation for being radical and and disruptive.
(See: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO"]COINTELPRO[/URL])
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
So, if anyone tells you that our government will not use covert methods and infiltration to try to delegitimize or radicalize groups like the Occupy Movement, call them a liar and tell them why.
This reminds me so much of the anti-Vietnam War protests in the 60's.
[QUOTE=Ast_risk;35789662]This reminds me so much of the anti-Vietnam War protests in the 60's.[/QUOTE]Which were targets of COINTELPRO.
They're breaking all the windows and being general douchebags in Seattle. Fuck off protesters stop ruining beautiful my city
[QUOTE=Carbon123;35789678]They're breaking all the windows and being general douchebags in Seattle. Fuck off protesters stop ruining beautiful my city[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;35789602]Its actually a point of fact that this has genuinely happened in the past (courtesy of everyone's favorite FBI [del]founder[/del] (he wasn't actually the founder) and director, J. Edgar Hoover). It was largely aimed at left-wing political and social groups, though anarchistic groups like the KKK were also grouped in. That's how the Black Panthers earned their reputation for being radical and and disruptive.
(See: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO"]COINTELPRO[/URL])
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
So, if anyone tells you that our government will not use covert methods and infiltration to try to delegitimize or radicalize groups like the Occupy Movement, call them a liar and tell them why.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;35789690][/QUOTE]
So is it just basically the anarchist groups doing all the mayhem while the Occupy Wallstreet guys are just doing their thing?
[QUOTE=Carbon123;35789721]So is it just basically the anarchist groups doing all the mayhem while the Occupy Wallstreet guys are just doing their thing?[/QUOTE]
Not unlikely. Black Flag groups and ANTIFA-style groups are usually the culprits there. the window-breaking car burners. That's not OWS's style.
[QUOTE=Faren;35789390]Hahaha, I didn't see shit to do with this. Guess my city is long over this.[/QUOTE]
Most people are generally over this. It was a fun, idealistic time for our generation's young adults to feel like they're making a significant difference but now it's running dry. It's the same thing; No real alternatives, no true goals or demands (hell, they can't specify a solution to the problem and they pretty much state that in the FAQ). They're under the pretense that they're a unified voice but nobody can really understand them. They're saying a dozen different things with a dozen different expectations. It's a clusterfuck if you ask me.
So because they lack any real goals and or demands other than crying out how corrupt everyone is, they can't possibly think that escalating into something violent is even remotely logical. It's nonsense. It's equivalent to just picking a fight because you're bored. At this point, they're building awareness by doing what they're doing and honestly, that's all that needs to be done. They have no foundation to escalate further and doing so will be nothing but bad at this point.
Corruption is a big deal. It's a real thing that happens every day, that much is fact. I'd love to see some major changes! I don't approve of corruption at all and I'm at least in that much of an agreement with OWS. But it's so interwoven into our system of capitalism it's impossible to root out corruption entirely. The best you can do is eliminate what you can and suppress as much as you can't. Ultimately, the point is that you can only make piece-meal changes to the system without screwing up another part of it some how. With the shitty economy being the biggest issue of all, if I was in a position of power I'd be afraid of messing with an already fragile system until I had enough confident solutions/suggestions to go ahead and fix it.
You're greatly oversimplifying and even misrepresenting the Occupy Movement. Also, they aren't running dry in any regards and have in fact continued to stay active and even grown in some forms. There is a major resurgence recently of activity, particularly evident today in what quite probably is the biggest protest yet for them. Many people have just ended up with the misconception that the Occupy Movement is somehow dead or greatly diminished when this is not the case at all. They've stopped appearing in the news as they did before, but they are just as active as ever.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35789832]Most people are generally over this. It was a fun, idealistic time for our generation's young adults to feel like they're making a significant difference but now it's running dry. It's the same thing; No real alternatives, no true goals or demands (hell, they can't specify a solution to the problem and they pretty much state that in the FAQ). They're under the pretense that they're a unified voice but nobody can really understand them. They're saying a dozen different things with a dozen different expectations. It's a clusterfuck if you ask me.
So because they lack any real goals and or demands other than crying out how corrupt everyone is, they can't possibly think that escalating into something violent is even remotely logical. It's nonsense. It's equivalent to just picking a fight because you're bored. At this point, they're building awareness by doing what they're doing and honestly, that's all that needs to be done. They have no foundation to escalate further and doing so will be nothing but bad at this point.
Corruption is a big deal. It's a real thing that happens every day, that much is fact. I'd love to see some major changes! I don't approve of corruption at all and I'm at least in that much of an agreement with OWS. But it's so interwoven into our system of capitalism it's impossible to root out corruption entirely. The best you can do is eliminate what you can and suppress as much as you can't. Ultimately, the point is that you can only make piece-meal changes to the system without screwing up another part of it some how. With the shitty economy being the biggest issue of all, if I was in a position of power I'd be afraid of messing with an already fragile system until I had enough confident solutions/suggestions to go ahead and fix it.[/QUOTE]
I mostly agree. But you're a bit off base.
[url]http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/[/url]
[img]http://pwoodford.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/occupy-wall-street_3.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Carbon123;35789721]So is it just basically the anarchist groups doing all the mayhem while the Occupy Wallstreet guys are just doing their thing?[/QUOTE]Not anarchist groups, but what you'd call agent provocateurs of law enforcement agencies. People sent in specifically to cause problems for the groups from the inside to either destabilize them or radicalize them or just generally discredit them.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;35789973]Not anarchist groups, but what you'd call agent provocateurs of law enforcement agencies. People sent in specifically to cause problems for the groups from the inside to either destabilize them or radicalize them or just generally discredit them.[/QUOTE]
While this definitely exists, you can't downplay the role of the black flags who traditionally do that sort of thing.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;35789973]Not anarchist groups, but what you'd call agent provocateurs of law enforcement agencies. People sent in specifically to cause problems for the groups from the inside to either destabilize them or radicalize them or just generally discredit them.[/QUOTE]
Your claims about COINTELPRO being indelible proof that the U.S. government is probably causing the violence would be valid if J. Edgar Hoover (an abusive corrupt above the law power broker worse than anyone before or since in the U.S. government) were still alive. He isn't. You can say that the government did do it in the past. But it's by no means proof that they're doing it now. It's not impossible but I've yet to see proof.
Note: I saw that video a while ago with the two cops in the crowd a few months ago. It's no proof that they were subversive elements. It's just proof that they were legally surveying the crowd.
Its just proof that there is a history of it in the U.S. and there are many allegations that the FBI carries out these activities still. COINTELPRO along was operation for just 15 years, but those activities were carried out as far back as 1908 without ever being noticed. And there is evidence of them still carrying out at least some of those activities as recent as 2006 according to the Inspector General of the DOJ.
[QUOTE=KingKombat;35789485]Wow, so let me tell you guys what it's like to fucking be at Union Square on this day.
People and cops
FUCKING [B][I]EVERYWHERE[/I][/B]
along with oddly dressed people
[B][I]FUCKING EVERYWHERE[/I][/B]
I go to taco bell and guess who's there
[B][I]OWS protestors[/I][/B]
they were cool though. one of them was all "hey do you wanna be a black panther", and i was all "lol no thanks" and he was all "lol i'm not asking for a specific reason, they're just taking anyone now"[/QUOTE]
fuck now i wish i went
[QUOTE=thisispain;35789033]no uh it's actually legally impossible for third party political parties to get political power, not to mention the other two parties also actively fight against it.[/QUOTE]
I knew there was a good reason I kept rating you dumb
hey the point of rating me dumb is so you don't have to shit-post about it
I like how, once again, the only thing hoodoo can do is spam dumbs and disagrees like the coward he is.
Post something, ya cunt.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Spooter;35790327]Your claims about COINTELPRO being indelible proof that the U.S. government is probably causing the violence would be valid if J. Edgar Hoover (an abusive corrupt above the law power broker worse than anyone before or since in the U.S. government) were still alive. He isn't. You can say that the government did do it in the past. But it's by no means proof that they're doing it now. It's not impossible but I've yet to see proof.[/QUOTE]
Just make sure to be equally skeptical of claims OWS is responsible.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;35791279]I knew there was a good reason I kept rating you dumb[/QUOTE]
The fact that he said something that was wrong de jure and correct de facto?
I figured you had basic reading comprehension, dude.
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