• #Occupy Wall Street - May Day
    216 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hoodoo456;35808548]My opinion on OWS is, they really need to say something other then "we want change", they need to specify what change they want. And it also annoys me how some of them smash stuff, then they act surprised and insulted at the police stopping them from breaking things. I don't think that they should've pepper sprayed the pregnant woman, or shot that marine in the head with a gas grenade, but you can't say all the police are violent tyrants from just a few of them doing things like that.[/QUOTE] Did you miss the part where I posted the list of political goals? And I think Conscript summed it up well- it's like the Tea Party, it's an association with very loose political views that all center around fundamental change in the system. And like we've covered. They aren't breaking things, it's really only one faction int here- the rest are committed to non-violence and whatnot. What they do blame the police for is smashing the right to peaceful protest and getting in the way of demonstrations and disobedience.
Mass Rally at Times Square (May 15th, in solidarity with the Indignados of Spain) [quote] At Times Square, join us in making a statement to the world: We are here today coming together for a city where housing is a human right, a country with good jobs for all, and a world where our basic needs are met We are coming together for a city with healthy food for all, a country with justice for its food workers, an for an ecologically sustainable world We are coming together for a city where no child is stopped and frisked, a country where no mother is deported, and for a world without war We are coming together for a city with quality public schools and after school programs, a country without student debt, and a world with free education for all We are here in solidarity with the people of the world who fight against the global financial system that pits people against each other and elevates profit above all else. We are the 99%, we believe that the liberation of one requires the liberation of all and we will fight for justice until we end the tyranny of the 1%. [/quote] [URL]http://www.nycga.net/events/event/mass-rally-at-times-square/[/URL] Occupy G8/NATO - Chicago and Maryland (May 18th-23rd): [quote] It's time to take to the streets. On May 20-21, the NATO powers are holding a pro-war summit in Chicago. Leaders from the world's most powerful countries will be descending on the city to promote an agenda of conquest, genocide and plunder. The ANSWER Coalition is joining with hundreds of other organizations in mobilizing people from the Chicago area, the Midwest and the entire country to come to Chicago for a mass march and rally to resist the war makers on Sunday, May 20. NATO and the Pentagon are nothing more than an enforcement arm of the 1%, using military force to carry out the interests of capitalism, overthrowing and destroying independent governments. For instance, NATO—under the pretext of defending civilians—carried out the merciless bombing of Libya until the government fell. Now, in their drive to reconquer the entire Middle East, U.S. and NATO are promoting civil war and foreign intervention to overthrow the government of Syria. The protest against the NATO Summit is being organized by the Coalition Against NATO/G8 War and Poverty Agenda (CANG8). The ANSWER Coalition, Occupy Chicago, Jesse Jackson, Chicago Teachers Union, National Nurses United, SEIU Healthcare Illinois and Indiana, SEIU Local 1, United Electrical Workers Western Region and many others have endorsed this important protest. [/quote][URL]http://www.protestnato.org[/URL] [URL]http://natoprotest.org/[/URL] [URL]http://cang8.org/[/URL] [url]http://occupyg8-2012.org/content/g8-weekend-schedule-events[/url] [url]http://www.occupyg8thurmont.net/[/url] Occupy the RNC - Tampa (August 27th-30th): [quote]On August 27, 2012, while the Republican National Convention selects a candidate for president, we will be marching in the streets of Tampa, Florida demanding jobs, healthcare, education, equality and peace. We will let the entire world know, “We have had enough of the endless attacks on the rights of working people and our standard of living!” We will defend Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. We will defend ourselves against union busting. We will defend our children's right to an affordable, quality education. We want money spent on human needs, not on wars overseas and corporate greed. In Congress and in states across the country, the Republicans and their Tea Party allies have unleashed a war on the people of this country. While the Republicans bailed out Wall Street, many of us lost our homes. While they push tax cuts for the rich, they are destroying working families and our way of life by cutting programs that serve us. The Republicans are trying to break our unions and take away our right to bargain collectively. They are spearheading attacks on immigrants and promoting an agenda of racism and hatred. For too long, too many politicians in both political parties have ignored our needs, while serving the interests of the rich and powerful. We need to take things into our own hands and make them understand the consequences of their actions. Monday, August 27, 2012, is the time to advance the cause of justice and make our voices heard. Tampa, Florida is the place for all of us to raise our demands. Whether you are working to defend reproductive rights, standing up against attacks on immigrants and racist discrimination, resisting attacks on working people, or saying no to government cutbacks, we can come together from across the country to let our voices be heard. From California, to Illinois, to New York, we can join our brothers and sisters in the South in mobilizing and building a united protest with a clear message, “No to the Republicans! We demand good jobs, healthcare, affordable education, equality and peace!” On Monday, August 27, 2012, the attention of the entire world will be focused on Tampa, Florida. The Republican National Convention brings together some of the worst politicians that this country has to offer. We're calling on all those ready to fight back against the attacks launched by the Republican Party and their corporate masters to take to the streets and demand a better future for our families, our communities and our children. [/quote][URL]http://www.marchonthernc.com/[/URL] [URL]http://www.resistrnc.org/[/URL] Occupy the DNC - Charlotte (September 1st-6th): [quote] Charlotte, NC is the Wall Street of the South, home to the world headquarters of Bank of America and the eastern headquarters of Wells Fargo. These two represent the worst, most notorious, and racist banks – for their role in driving the economic crisis, mass unemployment, home foreclosures, the prison industrial complex, including privatized immigration detention centers, funding environmental destruction and climate change, and many more attacks on our communities. Charlotte has the second highest concentration of finance capital behind New York City. In addition, North Carolina is one of only two states in the country where collective bargaining for public sector workers is illegal, it is the least unionized state in the country, and the South as a region is a bastion of right-to-work and anti-union laws. The decision of the DNC to hold it’s nominating convention here is injury to every family that has lost its home or worker that has been laid off as a result of an economic crisis caused by the banks and Wall Street. The irony has not escaped us. As the DNC meets in Charlotte, we will challenge the power of the banks over our political process. We will use this opportunity when a national and international spotlight will be on North Carolina and the South, to raise up people’s demands for jobs, justice, and dignity and bring our grievances directly to the doors of one of the two major national parties and the big banks. People across this country are fed up with business as usual. With every bank bailout, every budget cut, and every dollar dumped into the Pentagon and wars abroad, rather than spending the vast wealth of this country on people’s needs, the realities of who this system and the two parties serve becomes clearer everyday. We will hold a mass March on Wall Street South on Sunday, September 2 in Charlotte. Other actions and activities will take place throughout the week to raise up the many struggles for justice being waged by communities across the country. See you in the streets of Charlotte in September! [/quote][URL]http://wallstsouth.org/[/URL] Occupy Wall Street - NYC (September 17th): (more information to come) [quote] On May 26th OWS Direct Action Group launches Summer Disobedience School – kicking off 3 months of city-wide mayhem! We’ve completed Spring Training – and we’re moving and communicating in the streets like never before. Now we take our fight to sites of injustices throughout NYC, gradually building a culture of radical non-violent disobedience. We’ll be disrupting banks, corporations and the state all summer long, starting with the crooks in mid-town. We graduate as a full-on revolutionary force September 17th: City-Wide Shut Down! [/quote]
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35907087]Occupy G8/NATO - Chicago (May 18th-23rd): [quote]It's time to take to the streets. On May 20-21, the NATO powers are holding a pro-war summit in Chicago. Leaders from the world's most powerful countries will be descending on the city to promote an agenda of conquest, genocide and plunder. The ANSWER Coalition is joining with hundreds of other organizations in mobilizing people from the Chicago area, the Midwest and the entire country to come to Chicago for a mass march and rally to resist the war makers on Sunday, May 20. NATO and the Pentagon are nothing more than an enforcement arm of the 1%, using military force to carry out the interests of capitalism, overthrowing and destroying independent governments. For instance, NATO—under the pretext of defending civilians—carried out the merciless bombing of Libya until the government fell. Now, in their drive to reconquer the entire Middle East, U.S. and NATO are promoting civil war and foreign intervention to overthrow the government of Syria. The protest against the NATO Summit is being organized by the Coalition Against NATO/G8 War and Poverty Agenda (CANG8). The ANSWER Coalition, Occupy Chicago, Jesse Jackson, Chicago Teachers Union, National Nurses United, SEIU Healthcare Illinois and Indiana, SEIU Local 1, United Electrical Workers Western Region and many others have endorsed this important protest.[/quote] [url]http://www.protestnato.org[/url] [url]http://natoprotest.org/[/url] [url]http://cang8.org/[/url][/QUOTE] This is bullshit. The entire post reads like it was written by an early 20th century anarchist. The summit is not "pro war" and these people are going to ruin this city with fucking riots and burning shit and then use the police crackdown as evidence of police brutality.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;35907118]This is bullshit. The entire post reads like it was written by an early 20th century anarchist. The summit is not "pro war" and these people are going to ruin this city with fucking riots and burning shit and then use the police crackdown as evidence of police brutality.[/QUOTE] NATO is not an instrument of self-defense, it's used to ensure hegemony of the West over others in the interest of capital. The bloodier side of NATO has been seen [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Years_of_Lead_%28Italy%29"]here, notably[/URL], among other "stay behind" operations to crush dissent.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35907157]NATO is not an instrument of self-defense, it's used to ensure hegemony of the West over others in the interest of capital. The bloodier side of NATO has been seen [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Years_of_Lead_%28Italy%29"]here, notably[/URL], among other "stay behind" operations to crush dissent.[/QUOTE] Cool, got any examples that aren't 30-40 years old?
Nato is an imperialist alliance, no disputing that.
[QUOTE=Conscript;35908068]Nato is an imperialist alliance, no disputing that.[/QUOTE] I suppose so, but I wouldn't call the NATO alliance a collection of plundering genocidal warmongers. Nor would I really consider the Libyan campaign or their disapproval of the Syrian government's gunning down civilians a drive to conquer the Middle East. Then again, I'm not crazy, so I guess I'm not qualified for that sort of logic.
[QUOTE=Conscript;35908068]Nato is an imperialist alliance, no disputing that.[/QUOTE] Explain please.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;35907118]This is bullshit. The entire post reads like it was written by an early 20th century anarchist. The summit is not "pro war" and these people are going to ruin this city with fucking riots and burning shit and then use the police crackdown as evidence of police brutality.[/QUOTE] Yeah, and when the G8 rolls around, and 8 of the world's most important people are in one place, the gloves are off. Assuming they'll prepare this similar to the G20, they call in hundreds of riot police from cities all around the area, plus the National Guard. If these protesters thought their the response to their defiance at OWS was bad, they're in for a rude awakening.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;35908885]Explain please.[/QUOTE] I don't really feel like it but read imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism. Suffice to say changes in the nature of domestic capital, that is a switch to the power of finance capital, and the state protecting the interests of capital necessarily makes it imperialist. It's characterized by a switch from simply producing capital, relying on industrial capital, to the mass exporting of it, or relying on finance capital. It's the inevitable conclusion of capitalist development and saturation of the home market. Conditions that arise from this necessitate organs of power like NATO. That's the essence of bourgeois imperialism and the latter half of the 19th century and whole of the 20th century is a history of it. [editline]11th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;35909103]Yeah, and when the G8 rolls around, and 8 of the world's most important people are in one place, the gloves are off. Assuming they'll prepare this similar to the G20, they call in hundreds of riot police from cities all around the area, plus the National Guard. If these protesters thought their the response to their defiance at OWS was bad, they're in for a rude awakening.[/QUOTE] You might masturbate over this but it only further proves their point that the state is in bed with capital and doesn't give a fuck about the rest of us.
NATO's not a product of imperialism. It's a product of the cold war. It's a product of fear. The entire purpose was to unify the American and European military structure in the event of a Soviet invasion. I don't know how you can call it an "imperialist alliance" if its sole purpose was defense, not conquest. Most of the countries in NATO today are peaceful nations (Germany, Italy, Turkey, Belgium, Bulgaria, Albania, France, Estonia, Iceland, Greece, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Spain among others) and not imperialistic nations at all.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;35917738]NATO's not a product of imperialism. It's a product of the cold war. It's a product of fear. The entire purpose was to unify the American and European military structure in the event of a Soviet invasion.[/quote] And the entente unified the allies in the event of war with the central powers and was a product of the victorian era. WW1 was still an imperialist war and its belligerents a bunch of imperialists. The point is there wouldn't be a need for NATO if imperialism didn't exist. The nature of capital pits nations against each other and occasionally it becomes advantageous for some to band together against others. The west with its massive amounts of capital can form neo-colonies without what you call 'conquest'. Military conquest is an aged phenomenon, but the driving forces behind it never died. That's where you make a rather ignorant mistake. [quote]I don't know how you can call it an "imperialist alliance" if its sole purpose was defense, not conquest.[/quote] Imperialism =/= military conquest If I set up an order of things in my benefit and antagonize and alienate others in the process, then set up a state or an alliance of states to keep things the way they are, is it defensive anymore? If nations have contradictory, antagonistic interests, and they do, they will teeter towards rivalry and war. And when they do, both are acting in a defensive manner, they are defending their interests. [i]That[/i] is why NATO exists. And no, it doesn't make a lick of difference if NATO is 'solely defensive', especially considering it's not against expansion. That alone should destroy any notions of 'defensiveness' if the fact nations always defend their interests doesn't. It's an alliance of states that want to keep their nations rich and national capital strong on the market. This is done through exploiting less developed labor markets in the third world, where most of humanity resides, to raise living standards at home and in turn raise tax revenue, which further funds the defense of this system and the global balance of power from revolution and rival imperialists (frequently called 'rogue states). Thus imperialist alliance. [quote]Most of the countries in NATO today are peaceful nations (Germany, Italy, Turkey, Belgium, Bulgaria, Albania, France, Estonia, Iceland, Greece, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Spain among others) and not imperialistic nations at all.[/QUOTE] Usually when someone wants to debunk something their opponent says, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-imperialism#Marxism.2C_Leninism_and_anti-imperialism]they attack their opponent's meanings and not their own[/url]. Once again, simple military conquest =/= imperialism, that is a past method. Modern imperialism is economic colonialism.
[QUOTE=Conscript;35918218]And the entente unified the allies in the event of war with the central powers and was a product of the victorian era. WW1 was still an imperialist war and its belligerents a bunch of imperialists. The point is there wouldn't be a need for NATO if imperialism didn't exist. The nature of capital pits nations against each other and occasionally it becomes advantageous for some to band together against others. The west with its massive amounts of capital can form neo-colonies without what you call 'conquest'. Military conquest is an aged phenomenon, but the driving forces behind it never died. That's where you make a rather ignorant mistake. Imperialism =/= military conquest If I set up an order of things in my benefit and antagonize and alienate others in the process, then set up a state or an alliance of states to keep things the way they are, is it defensive anymore? If nations have contradictory, antagonistic interests, and they do, they will teeter towards rivalry and war. And when they do, both are acting in a defensive manner, they are defending their interests. [i]That[/i] is why NATO exists. And no, it doesn't make a lick of difference if NATO is 'solely defensive', especially considering it's not against expansion. That alone should destroy any notions of 'defensiveness' if the fact nations always defend their interests doesn't. It's an alliance of states that want to keep their nations rich and national capital strong on the market. This is done through exploiting less developed labor markets in the third world, where most of humanity resides, to raise living standards at home and in turn raise tax revenue, which further funds the defense of this system and the global balance of power from revolution and rival imperialists (frequently called 'rogue states). Thus imperialist alliance. Usually when someone wants to debunk something their opponent says, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-imperialism#Marxism.2C_Leninism_and_anti-imperialism]they attack their opponent's meanings and not their own[/url]. Once again, simple military conquest =/= imperialism, that is a past method. Modern imperialism is economic colonialism.[/QUOTE] Wait. You don't understand what you're saying. You said Imperialism=/= military conquest, but even the Wikipedia article you linked to said "War is generally seen as a method of furthering imperialist interests". Any ways everyone can recall plenty of military conquests that were intended to further imperialism, (War in the Philippines, Mexico-American war, for example) so its not out of the question for me to assume you called NATO an "imperialist alliance" because of its military power. While its possible that imperialist interests can be furthered also thorough economic conquest, NATO is solely a military pact, and not an economic one. It contains may states with vastly different economic factors that aren't what you consider imperialist like Iceland, Estonia, and Canada to name a few (I don't think anyone could call Iceland imperialist). In fact a good portion of the states in NATO are not rich, or very developed at all. Even a few can be considered third world. Thus the designation "imperialist alliance", even under your definition of Modern imperialism, does not apply. Also you maintain that because NATO is an imperialist alliance it wants to preserve the status quo of the global balance of power. Then how can you explain NATO's intervention into Libya? Surely it would be in the imperialists best interests to keep a dictatorship a dictatorship and not open up the possibility of a revolution turning that dictatorship into a rival imperialistic nation. This goes against both your points. In Libya NATO promoted revolution and opened the doors for, as you termed it, a "rival imperialist" to take power. NATO isn't "keeping things the way they are" if it wanted too, why wouldn't NATO attack economically powerful nations that are rising to prominence like India and Brazil? Both these nations used to be (and somewhat still are) economic slaves of stronger nations, but are constantly going against the influences of stronger "imperialistic" nations. Also I'm not saying that NATO is solely defensive today, I said when it was formed in the cold war it was solely defensive.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;35927979]Wait. You don't understand what you're saying. You said Imperialism=/= military conquest, but even the Wikipedia article you linked to said "War is generally seen as a method of furthering imperialist interests".[/quote] You're fixated on the need for military conquest for there to be imperialism. I linked you to a section in the wiki article because it describes the imperialism I'm talking about, the imperialism of capital and the modern nation-state. Imperialism includes military conquest but it's not limited to it. [quote]Any ways everyone can recall plenty of military conquests that were intended to further imperialism, (War in the Philippines, Mexico-American war, for example) so its not out of the question for me to assume you called NATO an "imperialist alliance" because of its military power. While its possible that imperialist interests can be furthered also thorough economic conquest, NATO is solely a military pact, and not an economic one.[/quote] I was more afraid you were reading 'imperialism' as a simple insult like it's usually used today, something people use when a state crosses some line. NATO doesn't need to be economic because it was made to protect what was already there. I'm not saying the powers in europe decided to get together and form NATO to [i]become[/i] imperialists, I'm saying these same powers are bound together because they have a common interest in protecting the imperialist gains they've already made over decades beginning in the victorian era. Let's not forget european imperialists fought each other until an outside, fiercely independent power threatened the balance of power and took over half of europe, then they united. Compare europe before and after the fall of tsarist russia. The game never changed, just the players. NATO is the european player, that's all I'm saying. [quote]It contains may states with vastly different economic factors that aren't what you consider imperialist like Iceland, Estonia, and Canada to name a few (I don't think anyone could call Iceland imperialist). In fact a good portion of the states in NATO are not rich, or very developed at all. Even a few can be considered third world. [/quote] This proves my point. Small powers who are hopelessly toeing the bottom of the global totem pole frequently ally with powerful states for favorable trade, investments, etc. Imperialist states have massive amounts of capital which allows them to command this kind of loyalty. This have everything to do with capital. In the global south/third world, there's a long history of struggle inspired from this, especially after WW2, between the nationalists (first peasants and later down the road after widespread industrialization, the 'national bourgeoisie') and imperialists. While formal independence was recognized, what really makes a nation-state, its national capital, was near non-existent and harmless compared to the foreign capital of imperialist states. [quote]Thus the designation "imperialist alliance", even under your definition of Modern imperialism, does not apply.[/quote] Imperialism is a global system that shapes the world to be what it is, alliances formed as a product of the world conditions it creates are definitely not exempt from having that nature. [quote]Also you maintain that because NATO is an imperialist alliance it wants to preserve the status quo of the global balance of power. Then how can you explain NATO's intervention into Libya? Surely it would be in the imperialists best interests to keep a dictatorship a dictatorship and not open up the possibility of a revolution turning that dictatorship into a rival imperialistic nation.[/quote] Libya was not just any dictatorship, it was a nationalist dictatorship. Qaddafi wasn't a western puppet (though he did try to cozy up to them, on his terms) and was rather pan-african, which imperialists greatly fear since a nationalist, united africa would greatly upset the balance of power. He favored state monopolies on resources to create state capital, which the west never liked and only tolerated when it meant preventing communism from taking power. Batista is an example of this. In other words, Qaddafi was an aspiring imperialist. The spread of the arab spring, which was very liberal in character, could only be a good thing for imperialism if it arrived to Libya. The eradication of closed off, state-monopoly capital means it's old assets and resources are now available on the market. This happened in Iraq, where for example iraq's state oil company's monopoly on iraqi oil was broken up and the fields opened to market investment. This is known as neo-liberalism, but it merely exists as a justification for imperialism. [quote]This goes against both your points. In Libya NATO promoted revolution and opened the doors for, as you termed it, a "rival imperialist" to take power. [/quote] The libyan revolution wasn't about becoming a rival imperialist, it would have to be far more nationalist in character. The only way NATO opened the doors for libya becoming a rival imperialist is by encouraging foreign capital to invest and make more capital for a nationalist dictatorship to size. [quote]NATO isn't "keeping things the way they are" if it wanted too, why wouldn't NATO attack economically powerful nations that are rising to prominence like India and Brazil? Both these nations used to be (and somewhat still are) economic slaves of stronger nations, but are constantly going against the influences of stronger "imperialistic" nations.[/quote] I don't know, why didn't the British and the rest of the europeans completely conquer the Qing? Maybe it's not...worth it? Why would NATO want to get tangled in these regions when they can expand into the former eastern bloc (as they already have to the dismay of nationalists in places like Russia and Belarus) and liberalize these places while struggling with nationalists in the M.E. to subdue them and liberalize their economies? You mention India and Brazil, two of the world's more successful states that were nationalist-liberated (there aren't that many for a reason dude, and they owe a lot of it to abundance of population and resources, so it was inevitable), but both are looking inwards to national capital and India at least is very keen on becoming self sufficient and fighting reliance on imports (that's why the recession didn't hit them so bad). They go against influence because they [i]can[/i], they don't need the west. Also NATO is a bit too regionalized for something like that, the only exception is their presence in east asia and that's a product of fighting the cold war and not inter-imperialist rivarly. Place them much closer and they'd be looking more like Russia. [quote]Also I'm not saying that NATO is solely defensive today, I said when it was formed in the cold war it was solely defensive.[/QUOTE] Some would argue the cold war was a struggle between imperialists.
So in other words, every country is imperialist because every country wants to protect the resources it requires to function
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35907087]Mass Rally at Times Square (May 15th, in solidarity with the Indignados of Spain) [URL]http://www.nycga.net/events/event/mass-rally-at-times-square/[/URL] Occupy G8/NATO - Chicago and Maryland (May 18th-23rd): [URL]http://www.protestnato.org[/URL] [URL]http://natoprotest.org/[/URL] [URL]http://cang8.org/[/URL] [url]http://occupyg8-2012.org/content/g8-weekend-schedule-events[/url] [url]http://www.occupyg8thurmont.net/[/url] Occupy the RNC - Tampa (August 27th-30th): [URL]http://www.marchonthernc.com/[/URL] [URL]http://www.resistrnc.org/[/URL] Occupy the DNC - Charlotte (September 1st-6th): [URL]http://wallstsouth.org/[/URL] Occupy Wall Street - NYC (September 17th): (more information to come)[/QUOTE] Really, the first part sounds [I]incredibly[/I] idealistic to the point almost none of those can happen. World without War? Could happen, but only for a short time until another disagreement pops up. Economic equality? Depends on what type of economic equality, wage? Do they mean a retail cashier should be paid as much as a business CEO? Or tax equality? [quote]We are coming together for a city where no child is stopped and frisked, a country where no mother is deported, and for a world without war[/quote] Child part I agree on, but if the mother is a illegal immigrant she shouldn't just be handed free citizenship just because she had a kid in America. [quote]We are coming together for a city with quality public schools and after school programs, a country without student debt, and a world with free education for all[/quote] This could happen if we actually managed to pay off the national debt. Everything else sounds like it was written by some anarchist who just wants to start some revolution and blow shit up.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;35931722]So in other words, every country is imperialist because every country wants to protect the resources it requires to function[/QUOTE] Countries don't have resources, they have capital. Two entirely different concepts. What a dumb statement, imperialists export capital, not resources, to accumulate capital, not resources. I'll give you that every country has an interest in doing this and requires it to function, but that doesn't change anything. Please, try harder (and maybe rate more while you're at it) next time if you want to sum up my argument in a sentence.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;35931789]Really, the first part sounds [I]incredibly[/I] idealistic to the point almost none of those can happen. World without War? Could happen, but only for a short time until another disagreement pops up. Economic equality? Depends on what type of economic equality, wage? Do they mean a retail cashier should be paid as much as a business CEO? Or tax equality? Child part I agree on, but if the mother is a illegal immigrant she shouldn't just be handed free citizenship just because she had a kid in America. This could happen if we actually managed to pay off the national debt. Everything else sounds like it was written by some anarchist who just wants to start some revolution and blow shit up.[/QUOTE] I agree with you to a degree. A world without war is impossible within capitalism, as is economic equality. So long as capital exists, so long as private property remains, labor will be exploited in the interest of capital. The demands set were reformist, and I'm not a reformist (rather a revolutionary) and one of the points I like about Occupy is not legitimizing the state by not giving demands. You're wrong about "illegal" immigrant, because no human is illegal. Race, ethnicity, even the nation: all social constructs. You're incredibly stupid if you think we need austerity to establish social progammes. If there was reform, not that I'm a fan of it, the wealth of the wealthiest could easily establish social programmes. How can this be written by an anarcho-insurrectionist if it's reformist and not revolutionary? You in denial of imperalism, the lackey of your precious NATO? [editline]13th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;35931722]So in other words, every country is imperialist because every country wants to protect the resources it requires to function[/QUOTE] They don't need resources, there is an artifical scarcity, they merely seek capital. Resources, as commodities, have a use value which translates to capital.
[video=youtube;rQDdi5ZQFcQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQDdi5ZQFcQ[/video]
[img]https://p.twimg.com/As-Fx7wCEAAzBTE.jpg:large[/img] mass rally underway at times square, holding a general assembly
can't ows just die already
That looks like Times Square always does, only with a couple banners this time.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35971532][img]https://p.twimg.com/As-Fx7wCEAAzBTE.jpg:large[/img] mass rally underway at times square, holding a general assembly[/QUOTE] look at the guy in the bottom-right corner, that's the Red Faction fist symbol. :v:
[QUOTE=Starlight15;35974647]look at the guy in the bottom-right corner, that's the Red Faction fist symbol. :v:[/QUOTE] It comes from the Assyrian fist symbol which existed since 25th BC. So no, it's not from Red Faction
[URL]http://www.rt.com/news/police-blockupy-frankfurt-ecb-610/[/URL] 400 comrades arrested in Germany, but the big demo is going to be tomorrow [IMG]https://farm9.static.flickr.com/8164/7223306840_7cd083c64d.jpg[/IMG] warm-up anti-nato demo in chi-town, the big one is going to be on the 20th. also, check out this tweet from occupy chicago regarding police presence [URL="https://twitter.com/#%21/OccupyChicago/status/203587750673383424"]Nothing has been broken. No protestors have been violent. Yet riot cops coming out. Helicopters. Bike cops. Horses. Wagons. #PoliceState[/URL] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/J9vvW.jpg?1[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tAu6F.jpg?1[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/SSI5a.jpg?1[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dWALP.jpg?1[/IMG]
Boy I hope the media avoidance of Occupy doesn't damage it too much. I don't agree with their whole communist revolution stance, but they raise a lot of good, and much needed questions about our world. Oh but Ownedered, stop treating this like a megathread, garry hates those in SH.
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;36008320]Boy I hope the media avoidance of Occupy doesn't damage it too much. I don't agree with their whole communist revolution stance, but they raise a lot of good, and much needed questions about our world. Oh but Ownedered, stop treating this like a megathread, garry hates those in SH.[/QUOTE] well, he hasn't done anything. also, take this video. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG01K1aUniA&hd=1[/url]
Protesters log: Day 248. Food is running low. Were going to have to start going Bear grylls and drink our own piss if this keeps up. But its for a good cause right? RIGHT?
[QUOTE=Tomthetechy;36013193]Protesters log: Day 248. Food is running low. Were going to have to start going Bear grylls and drink our own piss if this keeps up. But its for a good cause right? RIGHT?[/QUOTE] cease with the unfunny jokes
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