• Female game developer's $40,892 Kickstarter project goes unfinished, donates remaining funding to Fe
    367 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46623892]why didn't Doritogate mobilize you guys[/QUOTE] None of the big players self-destructed like a lot of the journalists and indie devs involved in Gamergate did. Eurogamer dropped the guy who wrote the article and everyone else shut up. Meanwhile the anti-GG folks circled the wagons and started shooting. I can only speak for myself but the sudden rush of "Gamers are dead" articles all within 24 hours from different writers working at different companies all pushing more or less the same language was what caught my attention.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46623892]why didn't Doritogate mobilize you guys[/QUOTE] It simply didn't antagonize anyone into being a group. Nobody knew what to do either than point it out when we got ME3 reviews with ME3 ads, ME3 videos and ME3 site backgrounds. Once you're a group you can actually get things done instead of having tumblr/4chan wars. All of the blunders are documented and will likely get a time-softened reaction. [QUOTE=Venezuelan;46623969]all I saw when it happened was a whole lot of memes also can you honestly with a straight face tell me that AAA titles aren't getting they same preferential treatment they always have because I have not noticed a difference[/QUOTE] Look at FC4. The real question here though is how can anyone stay an atheist after seeing sigmalambda being perma-smitten by the justice of blayzd.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46623892]why didn't Doritogate mobilize you guys[/QUOTE] It did? Are you kidding me? Why the fuck do you think its called Doritogate, but the thing is, it was a paid deal we knew up and front, it was obvious with all the mountain dew shit and doritos. It just wasnt something gigantic like GG is. Geoff Keighly was outed at the very least and is kind of a laughing stock now, cant go anywhere without being called the Dorito Pope., and now mountain dew and doritos are a laughing joke.(Doritos are still amazing though) Doritosgate was less about ethics, and more about just some made up exaggerated reality coming to fruition, like that picture couldnt be more perfect to explain to state of the industry, the one with keighly and all the dew and doritos. It was like a parody of itself. But Geoff is being a host in that situation, he has always been paid to host a product essentially, its not corruption or about journalism. Its simple marketing but so god damn blatant and offensive. Plus I think people were also just laughing to hard to get more serious about it.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;46623971]None of the big players self-destructed like a lot of the journalists and indie devs involved in Gamergate did. Eurogamer dropped the guy who wrote the article and everyone else shut up. Meanwhile the anti-GG folks circled the wagons and started shooting. I can only speak for myself but the sudden rush of "Gamers are dead" articles all within 24 hours from different writers working at different companies all pushing more or less the same language was what caught my attention.[/QUOTE] all I know if I have not taken games journalism seriously for years before it started giving indies attention and until those same problems from years ago are taken care of I still won't. Can't even begin to care about a couple indies fucking journalists when CoD is still goty every year
[QUOTE=Diet Kane;46623958]What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter how organized you are, or what different banner your fly yourself under. If you poke the beast, it's gonna strike back the same. People say that games media writers are powerless and "who cares about games journalism", but it's actually quite easy for one of them to jump on twitter, tweet to their thousands of followers that you or the banner you're flying are the worst vile monsters ever and deserve to be harassed and doxed, and they will do so.[/QUOTE] You say that like harassing and doxxing isn't something GG'ers do. It's what gave GG its bad reputation as a harassment movement. That, and... well, pretty much everything on The Ralph Retort.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46624000]It did? Are you kidding me? Why the fuck do you think its called Doritogate, but the thing is, it was a paid deal we knew up and front, it was obvious with all the mountain dew shit and doritos. It just wasnt something gigantic like GG is. Geoff Keighly was outed at the very least and is kind of a laughing stock now, cant go anywhere without being called the Dorito Pope., and now mountain dew and doritos are a laughing joke.(Doritos are still amazing though) Doritosgate was less about ethics, and more about just some made up exaggerated reality coming to fruition, like that picture couldnt be more perfect to explain to state of the industry, the one with keighly and all the dew and doritos. It was like a parody of itself. But Geoff is being a host in that situation, he has always been paid to host a product essentially, its not corruption or about journalism. Its simple marketing but so god damn blatant and offensive. Plus I think people were also just laughing to hard to get more serious about it.[/QUOTE] Calm down there partner. You get really emotional about internet fights.
[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;46624026]You say that like harassing and doxxing isn't something GG'ers do. It's what gave GG its bad reputation as a harassment movement. That, and... well, pretty much everything on The Ralph Retort.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry that we can't control the assholes who take advantage of GG to harass others to fuel their own giddies. GG as a whole does not condone harassment. Hell, it's why we managed to wrangle the identity of one of Anita's biggest harassers. Of course, that doesn't stop the opposing side from doxing and harassing as well.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46623892]why didn't Doritogate mobilize you guys[/QUOTE] Doritogate and the Gamespot Kane and Lynch fiasco before it were the *gates that Gamergate needs to be but isn't. They [i]did[/i] mobilize people and they got things done. Out of the latter we got Giant Bomb, and out of the former we finally got mainstream attention on just how shitty traditional games journalism has been. They were coherent movements addressing quantifiable specific problems, not just nebulous "everything sucks let's get mad" movements like Gamergate is. That coherence also stopped idiots from hijacking it.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;46623942]I'll give a benefit of doubt, she probably donated a small portion. Twitter is terrible since there's a lot that you can't fit in 140 characters.[/QUOTE] Either way, giving away people's money that they gave you to make a product is wrong.
Besides, I dare you to tell me doritogate did anything tangible. AFAIK MtnDew and Doritos are still big names in the market and Geoff is still in an important position in the industry. Heck, he's going to have his own award show IIRC.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46624000]Doritosgate was less about ethics, and more about just some made up exaggerated reality coming to fruition, like that picture couldnt be more perfect to explain to state of the industry, the one with keighly and all the dew and doritos. It was like a parody of itself.[/QUOTE] it's not about Doritos it's about ethics in games journalism
I know it's the least of the worries in this case, but... [QUOTE]P.S. ON A MORE PERSONAL NOTE, I AM NO LONGER GOING BY THE NAME DEVI EVER, [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]ONE : CONTACT ME AT CONSOLEat[B]DEVIEVER[/B]dotCOM FROM NOW ON IF YOU NEED TO GET A HOLD OF ME ONCE AGAIN, YOU CAN -ALWAYS- GET A HOLD OF ME VIA CONSOLEa[B]tDEVIEVER[/B]dotCOM ONCE AGAIN, THAT IS CONSOLEat[B]DEVIEVER[/B]dotCOM CONSOLEat[B]DEVIEVER[/B]dotCOM [/QUOTE] Surely got enough money out of those $40k for a new[I] $10[/I] domain? [QUOTE=Korova;46623885]You know, actually a thread would be a great idea considering it'd be centralized, harassment could be moderated.... Oh wait, all the major gaming forums banned this sort of discussion so that can't happen. Also if Reddit/4chan taught us anything, we can't trust moderators to be objective about this because IP addresses end up being leaked and "anonymous" users end up getting doxxed.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1421478"]There's one in the ground you're standing on right now[/URL]
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46623969]all I saw when it happened was a whole lot of memes also can you honestly with a straight face tell me that AAA titles aren't getting they same preferential treatment they always have because I have not noticed a difference[/QUOTE] AAA developers aren't sleeping with journalists. They've been disclosing branding deals. They're not on Twitter insulting their customers.
If theres two things FP really gets salty over its GG and police
[QUOTE=Adarrek;46623886]To be honest, i don't think gaming journalism and journalists should be taken seriously.[/QUOTE] What about film, literature, and musical journalists? Try not to fall into the "gaming is for kids and therefore unimportant" trap when it now represents more money than all those other industries combined.
[QUOTE=Coment;46624071] [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1421478"]There's one in the ground you're standing on right now[/URL][/QUOTE] Facepunch may be a larger forum but it's nothing compared to Reddit/4chan/Gamefaqs.
[QUOTE=Korova;46624096]AAA developers aren't sleeping with journalists. They've been disclosing branding deals. They're not on Twitter insulting their customers.[/QUOTE] yeah sorry but million dollar marketing budgets get more done than genitals also was anyone exposed to have slept with a journalist that then published something positive after the ZQ thing turned out to be false?
[QUOTE=Rejokk;46624062]Besides, I dare you to tell me doritogate did anything tangible. AFAIK MtnDew and Doritos are still big names in the market and Geoff is still in an important position in the industry. Heck, he's going to have his own award show IIRC.[/QUOTE] Putting aside the fact that Mountain Dew and Doritoes are marketed to people who don't play just video games, theres also the fact that the people who care about things like collusion and conflicts of interests when it comes to video games is a tiny fraction of the people who play video games.
For anyone that doesnt know yet, this is completely against Kickstarters TOS and she likely wont get away with this one way or another. Why do people think they can do whatever they want and not face the consequences?
[QUOTE=Diet Kane;46624055]I'm sorry that we can't control the assholes who take advantage of GG to harass others to fuel their own giddies. GG as a whole does not condone harassment. Hell, it's why we managed to wrangle the identity of one of Anita's biggest harassers. Of course, that doesn't stop the opposing side from doxing and harassing as well.[/QUOTE] Attempting to disavow anybody from GG that harasses people doesn't stop people from getting harassed in the name of GG. If GG as a whole doesn't condone harassment, why does it happen so often? If the movement is based around twitter and isn't organized in any way, you can't just pick and choose who "really" is or isn't part of it. All anybody has to do is be a huge shithead and add #GamerGate to their message, and bam, GG did another shit thing.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;46624104]What about film, literature, and musical journalists? Try not to fall into the "gaming is for kids and therefore unimportant" trap when it now represents more money than all those other industries combined.[/QUOTE] in its current state, games criticism is infantile. Only recently are people like Jim Sterling and Yahtzee willing to call out flaws for otherwise "well received" titles. Maybe soon our Roger Ebert will come and make for more serious journalists but for now it's just ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;46624059]Doritogate and the Gamespot Kane and Lynch fiasco before it were the *gates that Gamergate needs to be but isn't. They [i]did[/i] mobilize people and they got things done. Out of the latter we got Giant Bomb, and out of the former we finally got mainstream attention on just how shitty traditional games journalism has been. They were coherent movements addressing quantifiable specific problems, not just nebulous "everything sucks let's get mad" movements like Gamergate is. That coherence also stopped idiots from hijacking it.[/QUOTE] Are you just intentionally igorant of what gamergate has accomplished? We've forced reform of ethics policies accross the board on IGN, kotaku, polygon, promoted alternative sites incljuding techraptor, nichegamer, and many more, exposed several violations that have lead to 1. mass advertiser dropouts 2. ad network impact 3. FTC intervention that has forced kotaku and gamasutra to disclose that their entire front page is 2/3 paid advertisements, not editorials, reviews, or news. FTC intervention which is still ongoing and we are likely to see even more from, for example better enforcement of regulations on paid youtube content. Additionally, awareness has been raised about problems with the colloqually termed SJW mentality which will likely be an important contribution as our politics advance, hopefully preventing overcompensating of racism and sexism that could be just as damaging as both of those things. But this and similar affects are far more subjective 'benefits' i suppose. so i won't go into too much depth. By these measures, Gamergate has been the most successful internet consumer campaign of it's kind in history and its fucking magnificent.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;46623691] [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Shitposting - Broke last chance" - Blazyd))[/highlight][/QUOTE] 7 years I have been waiting for this day
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46624119]yeah sorry but million dollar marketing budgets get more done than genitals also was anyone exposed to have slept with a journalist that then published something positive after the ZQ thing turned out to be false?[/QUOTE] False? Look at the RPS article. She's mentioned by Nathan Grayson at the top of the list by name in an article that just lists 50 other games that got Greenlit.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;46624059]Doritogate and the Gamespot Kane and Lynch fiasco before it were the *gates that Gamergate needs to be but isn't. They [i]did[/i] mobilize people and they got things done. Out of the latter we got Giant Bomb, and out of the former we finally got mainstream attention on just how shitty traditional games journalism has been. They were coherent movements addressing quantifiable specific problems, not just nebulous "everything sucks let's get mad" movements like Gamergate is. That coherence also stopped idiots from hijacking it.[/QUOTE] That would imply that things didn't get done because of GamerGate. Most recently, the FTC happenings I mentioned earlier in the thread for example.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46624144]in its current state, games criticism is infantile. Only recently are people like Jim Sterling and Yahtzee willing to call out flaws for otherwise "well received" titles. Maybe soon our Roger Ebert will come and make for more serious journalists but for now it's just ridiculous.[/QUOTE] I took "should not be taken seriously" in your initial post to intend that we should not care about improving it, apologies if that was inaccurate. I agree that it may be infantile now, however i do think it's worth improving, don't you?
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46624144]in its current state, games criticism is infantile. Only recently are people like Jim Sterling and Yahtzee willing to call out flaws for otherwise "well received" titles. Maybe soon our Roger Ebert will come and make for more serious journalists but for now it's just ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't you consider TotalBiscuit as the Ebert of the gaming industry? I think that's fair to say.
[QUOTE=Korova;46624190]False? Look at the RPS article. She's mentioned by Nathan Grayson at the top of the list by name in an article that just lists 50 other games that got Greenlit.[/QUOTE] [url]http://geekparty.com/eron-gjoni-clarifies-the-zoe-quinn-nathan-grayson-timeline/[/url]
[QUOTE=Korova;46624096]AAA developers aren't sleeping with journalists. They've been disclosing branding deals. They're not on Twitter insulting their customers.[/QUOTE] A AAA developer paid for a journalist (or a Youtuber) to come to their event, wined and dined them, and sent them off with expensive gifts. I'd use the word swag, but swag means bumper stickers and pins, not Nexus tablets and game consoles. Why would they do this? So the person writes something nice about their game, or makes a cool video of it interposed with beauty shots from press kits. We saw this with Elder Scrolls Online particularly. They invited people like AngryJoe and Jesse Cox to come play their game, they came back with 20 minute videos about how it's the Elder Scrolls game we have been waiting for, then never covered it again because they had no vested interest in talking about a shit game. But they didn't need to be. Because their viewers or readers had seen those reports about how great the game was going to be. How many copies were sold off of that hype? A few dozen? A couple hundred? Thousands? Now multiply that number by the amount of people who showed up. For Advanced Warfare Activision invited several famous Youtubers to try the game out, who then went to their respective channels and essentially marketed it for them. That's what it is now. It's marketing. A car salesman invests a few dollars in signs and makes several times the return when he sells a car because someone happened to see the sign. Similarly, Activision or EA or Ubisoft hold these spectacles because while it costs money now, it will make them much more money in the long run. This has far, far more of a tangible financial effect than any indie developer sleeping with a second-string Kotaku writer ever did.
If I were handed 40'000$ in cash first thing I do is call a financial expert and ask 'How much do you want in cash to follow me thorough my project and make sure I don't fuck up financially?" For something like 6'000 you could have had someone who's occupation is to make sure you don't fuck up with that kind of money. Donating a sum instead of paying taxes or giving refunds was an astoundingly bad choice.
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