• Vive will release before Oculus Rift
    130 replies, posted
[QUOTE=EliteGuy;47674844]Vive has better specs, more equiptment (motion tracking lasers and position tracking controllers) I'd rather get the Vive, I trust Valve considerably more than Facebook[/QUOTE] Facebook FUNDED them. That is a great thing, and it always was. It's ridiculous how some people like you think that Facebook is corrupt and will destroy everything they touch.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47674853]What Punchy said, they use sensers around the room and use (optional of course) motion controllers you place in your hand. I have a very unwide, small room with no movement space so I can't really do anything with that. I'd be buying something that does something I won't need.[/quote] I am pretty sure you can just let the beacons sit right on your desk for accurate non-inertial position tracking. If Vive turns out to be significantly more expensive than OR with no other advantages then your concern is obviously understandable but until that's confirmed, I wouldn't pick my favourites yet.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;47676022]I am pretty sure you can just let the beacons sit right on your desk for accurate non-inertial position tracking. If Vive turns out to be significantly more expensive than OR with no other advantages then your concern is obviously understandable but until that's confirmed, I wouldn't pick my favourites yet.[/QUOTE] The Vive works in the [i]entire[/i] room. Why would you place the sensors on your desk and artificially limit the range, even if you can't walk around?
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;47676022]I am pretty sure you can just let the beacons sit right on your desk for accurate non-inertial position tracking. If Vive turns out to be significantly more expensive than OR with no other advantages then your concern is obviously understandable but until that's confirmed, I wouldn't pick my favourites yet.[/QUOTE] the thing is, I have three screens, a gamepad, a wiiu, with the third screen literally on a stool+books, I don't have the room to add beacons, and I'm not going to get any benefit paying extra for something I'll never use
[QUOTE=J!NX;47676029]the thing is, I have three screens, a gamepad, a wiiu, with the third screen literally on a stool+books, I don't have the room to add beacons, and I'm not going to get any benefit paying extra for something I'll never use[/QUOTE] You don't know what you're talking about. You stick these to the very corners of your room, up top.
[QUOTE=bitches;47676039]You don't know what you're talking about. You stick these to the very corners of your room, up top.[/QUOTE] I meant, putting it on my desk wouldn't be practical anyways still, don't they need to be wired anyways? as they spin?
[QUOTE=meppers;47675506]Why are people saying this post is wrong? [t]http://images.gizmag.com/inline/things-learned-oculus-rift-gear-vr-13.jpg[/t] [t]https://modemworld.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/base-station.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Because the second thing isn't a camera with limited field of view but a (provably) omnidirectional beacon? The difference is that OR tracks the position of your head with the camera, with the headset signaling outwards. If you turn 360 degrees, even if just in your chair, the device will probably lose track of your position. I am also quite unsure about the response time of a classic camera looking for visual cue, as that's something you have to process. Meanwhile Vive beacons are basically like the classic spinny police siren with no outer sensors that keeps lighting the room with a flat plane of light, and the exact time the light hits the sensors (which are considerably simpler and thusly faster and cheaper than a camera) on the headset let's you calculate both position and orientation of the headset in space. To my engineering mind, Valve's solution seems a bit more elegant by principle, but it's most likely the specific implementation which will decide which of these will be better and cheaper. [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] I wonder if Valve could allow for third party beacons as it's a device so simple and easy to interface that if they decide to open it's specification, people could easily build their own.
[img]http://foxcock.me/web/images/zscreen/2015_05/Screenshot-2015-05-07_03.05.48.png[/img] [img]https://metaversingdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/lighthouseslide1.png[/img] [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;47676076] I wonder if Valve could allow for third party beacons as it's a device so simple and easy to interface that if they decide to open it's specification, people could easily build their own.[/QUOTE] On day 1 they already announced that anyone is allowed to develop Lighthouse hardware.
[QUOTE=bitches;47676026]The Vive works in the [i]entire[/i] room. Why would you place the sensors on your desk and artificially limit the range, even if you can't walk around?[/QUOTE] Well, to be frank, "my" "room" has walls lined with bookshelves, is practically split in half by a server rack and my desk is generally a lot "shielded" so the corners thing wouldn't really work at all, I would have to get inventive with it either way. I am just saying that it will probably still work if you put the beacons over your desk as last resort.
[QUOTE=bitches;47676106] [img]https://metaversingdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/lighthouseslide1.png[/img] [/QUOTE] That is dumb. When I heard that you could walk around a room I assumed it would be wireless but no. A fucking cable connected to your head WHILE walking around? Furthermore this is Valve here, expect this to be as timely as SteamOS or Steamboxes.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47678280]That is dumb. When I heard that you could walk around a room I assumed it would be wireless but no. A fucking cable connected to your head WHILE walking around? Furthermore this is Valve here, expect this to be as timely as SteamOS or Steamboxes.[/QUOTE] Wireless VR is impossible with current technology (PC VR that is, don't need wires in mobile VR like the Gear), the latency is still a huge issue. We'll have to do with a wire in first gen VR headsets. Both Valve and Oculus are actively developing the wireless tech though.
[QUOTE=Orkel;47678299]Wireless VR is impossible with current technology (PC VR that is, don't need wires in mobile VR like the Gear), the latency is still a huge issue. We'll have to do with a wire in first gen VR headsets. Both Valve and Oculus are actively developing the wireless tech though.[/QUOTE] My point is whoever came up with the idea, of walking around a room while dragging around an easily trippable cable behind your back while you are essentially blindfolded, is a moron.
[QUOTE=EliteGuy;47674844]Vive has better specs[/QUOTE] You don't know.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47678319]My point is whoever came up with the idea, of walking around a room while dragging around an easily trippable cable behind your back while you are essentially blindfolded, is a moron.[/QUOTE] That's just a silly marketing image. Obviously you can mitigate this issue with a simple device on the ceiling. Even a simple hook can do wonders with a counterweight or spring. [t]http://www.greenmountainfireandhammer.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/ceiling_hook.jpg[/t] [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] you look ridiculous to immediately condemn an entire well educated engineering team without actually knowing any of their plans
[QUOTE=bitches;47678542]That's just a silly marketing image. Obviously you can mitigate this issue with a simple device on the ceiling. Even a simple hook can do wonders with a counterweight or spring. [t]http://www.greenmountainfireandhammer.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/ceiling_hook.jpg[/t] [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] you look ridiculous to immediately condemn an entire well educated engineering team without actually knowing any of their plans[/QUOTE] Yes because Valve knows best when it comes to hardware. Steam controller, etc. And well educated engineering teams never follow stupid ideas. Ouya, etc. This "solution" of finding a perfectly square room, adding a hook to the ceiling, placing two cameras across from each other, and wiring a headset to a computer is utterly silly and I can only see this being used in the same capacity as the Oculus, in a chair, at best. And then you have to consider who is going to decide to build apps that actually use room navigation when you could just develop for a chair user.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47674637] 99% likely I'll get the rift instead. Vive and the room I'm in simply will not be compatible with eachother[/QUOTE] Vive also works great in sitting. Valve said it by themselves. They even had to clarify it because most people thought that you need space to have it work.
I want a virtual reality 360degree desktop please so I don't need multiple monitors....
[QUOTE=Thlis;47678319]My point is whoever came up with the idea, of walking around a room while dragging around an easily trippable cable behind your back while you are essentially blindfolded, is a moron.[/QUOTE] yeah the guy who invented not inventing low enough latency wireless video and data streaming is an asshole
[QUOTE=Thlis;47678319]My point is whoever came up with the idea, of walking around a room while dragging around an easily trippable cable behind your back while you are essentially blindfolded, is a moron.[/QUOTE] Then what does that make you, who didn't invent anything at all?
[QUOTE=dai;47678885]yeah the guy who invented not inventing low enough latency wireless video and data streaming is an asshole[/QUOTE] I am absolutely baffled that you all fail to notice a problem with this. I encourage you to try taping a vga cable to your head connected to your $2000 tower computer, put on a blindfold, and walk around a room. [QUOTE=paul simon;47678906]Then what does that make you, who didn't invent anything at all?[/QUOTE] I don't know but by your logic you cannot call the invention of shoe-umbrellas moronic unless you've invented something. I hope you don't critique a chef unless you are happy with being a hypocrite.
You're still making the claim that a team of individuals whose [I]career[/I] is this stuff don't know what they're doing, [B]without actually knowing anything about their plans[/B]. Superiority complex there; why the great need to complain so hard about things you're not involved in? [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] and of course you didn't even try to explain how tethering the cable to the ceiling wouldn't be a good solution [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] i guarantee these devices will come off your face sooner than pull over your computer, if you're not being an idiot with it you sound like the sort of guy who would stand back and cry out how everyone wearing 'that ridiculous helmet' is a 'total nerd loser' this is a thread for a product for enthusiasts willing to try out new things and work around problems not for pointless uninformed complaining
[QUOTE=bitches;47679067]You're still making the claim that a team of individuals whose [I]career[/I] is this stuff don't know what they're doing, [B]without actually knowing anything about their plans[/B]. Superiority complex there; why the great need to complain so hard about things you're not involved in? [/QUOTE] I am absolutely dumbfounded by how you cannot see a problem with the proposed idea. You don't have to be Isambard to see the problem with this. Seriously, tape a vga cable to your head, connect it to your computer, blind fold yourself, and walk around. [QUOTE=bitches;47679067] and of course you didn't even try to explain how tethering the cable to the ceiling wouldn't be a good solution[/QUOTE] Ok then, aside from the fact your going to have physically adjust your house you must at least tape the cables to the wall and ceiling as well to avoid close lining yourself. [QUOTE=bitches;47679067] i guarantee these devices will come off your face sooner than pull over your computer, if you're not being an idiot with it [/QUOTE] I guarantee you that a device that comes off your face before pulling over your computer would be a device that couldn't affix itself to your face in the first place. [QUOTE=bitches;47679067] you sound like the sort of guy who would stand back and cry out how everyone wearing 'that ridiculous helmet' is a 'total nerd loser' this is a thread for a product for enthusiasts willing to try out new things and work around problems not for pointless uninformed complaining[/QUOTE] You've really intellectually stomped me with that one. I totally am a cardboard cutout of the highschool bully. I am totally not a hardware enthusiast who is actually working on products for vr.
If I'm spending hundreds on a specialty tech device, it isn't any bother for me to spend two minutes to screw a fancy hook/spring into the ceiling. That's a very small adjustment to make. [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] infact i already did that with my DK2, and the only problem i had is that it wasn't designed for extension cables (video issues) [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] the point is that this is an exciting opportunity for a very new form of game experiences; this is such an interesting concept that [B]thousands of people[/B] are absolutely willing to dedicate a small open space and some saved cash to experience. It will work just fine. It isn't the matrix, but who are you to bitch endlessly because it isn't perfect? [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Thlis;47679114] I guarantee you that a device that comes off your face before pulling over your computer would be a device that couldn't affix itself to your face in the first place.[/QUOTE] You say this as if I don't already use it in this way. I already tether my cable to my ceiling, and yet you have the belligerence to say you know better than my personal experience and experienced engineers.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47679114] Ok then, aside from the fact your going to have physically adjust your house you must at least tape the cables to the wall and ceiling as well to avoid close lining yourself. [/QUOTE] why is this a big deal for someone who actually wants to set up a VR space? I mean to begin with the area kinda needs to be tailored to VR use, in that it's cleared of any obstacles, is near your PC, and has adequate mounting points for the Lighthouse beacons. It doesnt seem like it would be a very big deal to have a cable raceway and a caster or something to act as a cable tether. I could probably set that up in like, an hour?
What I don't understand is why the Oculus Rift so goddamn long to release? Like, it should've been out at 2014 at the least. How many goddamn Dev kits do you need to release?
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;47679256]What I don't understand is why the Oculus Rift so goddamn long to release? Like, it should've been out at 2014 at the least. How many goddamn Dev kits do you need to release?[/QUOTE] two; dk2 released a year ago, and will be 1.5-2 years old by the time they release their consumer product there will not be a dk3
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;47679256]What I don't understand is why the Oculus Rift so goddamn long to release? Like, it should've been out at 2014 at the least. How many goddamn Dev kits do you need to release?[/QUOTE] probably because the technology that was needed to get it to a state worth releasing wasn't really around/integratable in 2014? the differences between the first dev kit and the consumer version are ENORMOUS dude
[QUOTE=Sam Cutt;47675266]Functionally, you can still sit in a chair and use the Vive in the same way you use a Rift - in fact, that's how most people will use it. Vive just has the extra bonus of being able to set up a VR room [I]if you want to.[/I] I think Valve made a blunder not making this clear; the fact that a lot of people think they [I]have[/I] to have an open space to use VR means they are alienating most of their customers - especially since most AAA games in the coming years aren't necessarily going to be designed [I]specifically[/I] for VR. Rather, they'll be converted to VR and will probably need to be played sitting down. Vive is like a lot of Valve's services; offer a something that works right now, but with an extra feature they believe will be the next big thing - but will have to grow into steady use.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's perplexing why neither HTC nor Valve made it more clear. At first I think it was Cloudhead Games in an interview clearing it up. It's not even their job! Then there were some snippets here and there, but overall as far as the public is concerned the 15x15 feet room is a requirement. Of course knowing how Valve communicate and all shouldn't have expected better, but I did from HTC. But looks like they rather talk up the premium feature.
[QUOTE=Orkel;47678299]Wireless VR is impossible with current technology (PC VR that is, don't need wires in mobile VR like the Gear), the latency is still a huge issue. We'll have to do with a wire in first gen VR headsets. Both Valve and Oculus are actively developing the wireless tech though.[/QUOTE] wireless has been done at valve, but it was with a special IC that took multiple frequencies, but was only able to have one device per room. I brought this up a long time ago and someone in the rift thread tried to make the argument of higher frequencies, but instead of making the point I thought I could wait until valve or oculus would had come out publicly talking about the issue. I haven't been in the loop, but having wired headset is a clear indication that wired is the best choice. (having a powerful cellphone from the future could circumvent the issue for such general use).
[QUOTE=J!NX;47674637]I'll wait until specs 99% likely I'll get the rift instead. Vive and the room I'm in simply will not be compatible with eachother[/QUOTE] Yeah, I'm going to wait and see what it can do before I go buy it. The room requirements have me worried as well. I think there are very few people that will be able to fit the 5 by 5 meter empty space requirement.
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