• Vive will release before Oculus Rift
    130 replies, posted
[QUOTE=J!NX;47674637]I'll wait until specs 99% likely I'll get the rift instead. Vive and the room I'm in simply will not be compatible with eachother[/QUOTE] Vive doesn't use a tracker though, you put 3-4 beacons out in a room and the headset itself tracks its location, if anything rift will be harder to use since it has to have a tracker thingy like a kinect [editline]7th May 2015[/editline] Also I believe the room size is a maximum currently not a minimum, I remember tested discussing that you actually will be defining the area with the paired steam controler wand and also it apparently fades out the VR when you walk past the boundary so you don't walk into a wall where occulus has to have a constant line of sight to you from their camera thing
[img]http://i.imgur.com/olhRzKB.png[/img] No. Seriously. You don't fucking know. Oculus hasn't been spending these last months since CB playing with their dicks. Pronouncing "THE VIVE HAS BETTER SPECS!!" as if the specs for CV1 have been released only makes you look like a ponce.
I don't seem to be getting a good Vive out of this article.
Honestly I'd rather not throw more money at Valve seeing how they've been acting recently. I'll wait until both are out.
[QUOTE=V12US;47680675]Yeah, I'm going to wait and see what it can do before I go buy it. The room requirements have me worried as well. I think there are very few people that will be able to fit the 5 by 5 meter empty space requirement.[/QUOTE] It's not a requirement, you can used it seated or standing or in a 6x4 feet space whatever. The 15x15 feet room is what the tech can enable it up to.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47678280]That is dumb. When I heard that you could walk around a room I assumed it would be wireless but no. A fucking cable connected to your head WHILE walking around? Furthermore this is Valve here, expect this to be as timely as SteamOS or Steamboxes.[/QUOTE] Is your monitor wireless?
[QUOTE=Thlis;47678766]Yes because Valve knows best when it comes to hardware. Steam controller, etc. And well educated engineering teams never follow stupid ideas. Ouya, etc. This "solution" of finding a perfectly square room, adding a hook to the ceiling, placing two cameras across from each other, and wiring a headset to a computer is utterly silly and I can only see this being used in the same capacity as the Oculus, in a chair, at best. And then you have to consider who is going to decide to build apps that actually use room navigation when you could just develop for a chair user.[/QUOTE] I'd make a long post about why you are wrong and also why the steam controller is actually a good think but I'm afraid you're never going to listen and I know you won't but I'll just say this would you rather every controller uses EXACTLY THE SAME DESIGN as the three controllers currently out? (2 joysticks, a dpad, 4 buttons/2menu buttons, 2 bumpers, 2 triggers) or something actually different for once as for wired VR, it's not currently possibly to have effective wireless headsets for gaming, the latency would be insane, the battery life would be a joke and it would need a battery which would add to the weight quite a bit. [editline]8th May 2015[/editline] [video=youtube;leg2gS6ShZw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leg2gS6ShZw[/video] they also address the wire issues having actually used it (its long enough to be minor)
[QUOTE=Thlis;47679114]I am absolutely dumbfounded by how you cannot see a problem with the proposed idea. You don't have to be Isambard to see the problem with this. Seriously, tape a vga cable to your head, connect it to your computer, blind fold yourself, and walk around. Ok then, aside from the fact your going to have physically adjust your house you must at least tape the cables to the wall and ceiling as well to avoid close lining yourself. I guarantee you that a device that comes off your face before pulling over your computer would be a device that couldn't affix itself to your face in the first place. You've really intellectually stomped me with that one. I totally am a cardboard cutout of the highschool bully. [B]I am totally not a hardware enthusiast who is actually working on products for vr.[/B][/QUOTE] And what would you do confronted with this problem Mr. Humblebrag? Give up on VR because cables are such a huge trip hazard? There are dozens of solutions, like hooks on a ceiling, harnesses, automatic cable reels, or even wireless if you're willing to sacrifice quality for a better walking experience. If you're getting Vive you need to place the beacons somewhere along your ceiling, is getting a hook fitted in THAT much more of a bother? It's like saying "Desktop computers are a shitty idea, you have to buy a [I]desk[/I] and a [I]chair[/I] to use it!" Do you complain that your curtains don't come with a mounting bar too? Get Gear VR or wait until the technology is there for it if you're too lazy to install a hook. Fuck, maybe invent something yourself and make a bit of cash while you're at it? Also nowhere on Vive's website does it say anything about minimum space requirement, where are you people getting that? Do you not know the difference between "Up to" and "over"? [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/P273kLM.png[/img_thumb]
[QUOTE=Buck.;47685124]Also nowhere on Vive's website does it say anything about minimum space requirement, where are you people getting that? Do you not know the difference between "Up to" and "over"? [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/P273kLM.png[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Try thinking for a moment and consider the following. If a game designer were to use the feature of walking around how much space would they designate for it? 15ftx15ft, 10ftx10ft? 5ftx5ft? What would become the standard? Because game designers will want to make their game for the largest audience and if you have a computer you at the very least have a chair/chair substitute. If you are sitting down then the cables aren't an issue because you aren't walking around liable to trip on them. You all seem to be getting so defensive to the point it's like I kicked your dog, but then again Valve. [QUOTE=J!NX;47684933] would you rather every controller uses EXACTLY THE SAME DESIGN as the three controllers currently out? (2 joysticks, a dpad, 4 buttons/2menu buttons, 2 bumpers, 2 triggers) or something actually different for once [/QUOTE] Preferably something that works. Almost every video I have seen on it has shown it to be awful as a controller and mediocre as a mouse/keyboard replacement. [QUOTE=DarklytheGreat;47684827]Is your monitor wireless?[/QUOTE] No, but at the same time I don't walk around with it tied to my face. Do you?
I see his point, considering the actual walking space allowed, is hard to see it used for anything more than a gimmick or vr demo [editline]8th May 2015[/editline] I'd personally only really need it for seated vr, unless I'm trying some demo that really utilises it
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685335]Try thinking for a moment and consider the following. If a game designer were to use the feature of walking around how much space would they designate for it? 15ftx15ft, 10ftx10ft? 5ftx5ft? What would become the standard? Because game designers will want to make their game for the largest audience and if you have a computer you at the very least have a chair/chair substitute. If you are sitting down then the cables aren't an issue because you aren't walking around liable to trip on them. You all seem to be getting so defensive to the point it's like I kicked your dog, but then again Valve. Preferably something that works. Almost every video I have seen on it has shown it to be awful as a controller and mediocre as a mouse/keyboard replacement. No, but at the same time I don't walk around with it tied to my face. Do you?[/QUOTE] as someone who does VR stuff for work, it's simple: [i]you design your thing with an intended central location that represents the neutral standing spot for a person[/i] that's it a player is free to meander away from the center, but as soon as you reach your limit (a wall, your desk, etc), you'll need to use your controller to walk, which is best represented as your room being an invisible box that you have to cart around the simulation. (finding a good mime-in-a-box picture is proving awful) There's very little need in nigh all cases to consider anything more than an arm's length area in front of the computer, because most people are going to be seated, or standing pretty still with the occasional step-toward-something-to-inspect it. Any case that does demand it is purpose-built and you'll either be warned it's for a certain size space, or be asked to define the space you have to work with and suggest you stand in the center of it. shit isn't going to be wii sports [quote]You all seem to be getting so defensive to the point it's like I kicked your dog, but then again Valve.[/quote] it's more because you're throwing a horrible tantrum on the basis you're irresponsibly clumsy
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685335]Preferably something that works. Almost every video I have seen on it has shown it to be awful as a controller and mediocre as a mouse/keyboard replacement.[/QUOTE] That's because it's prototyping Almost every prototype looks dumb and doesn't work nearly as well as it will when it releases [t]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/05/googleglass-prototyping.jpg[/t][t]http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_super/2/25997/2433261-wii-u-gamepad-prototype.jpg[/t][t]http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/11/prototype-screen-xbox-one-controller-610x451.jpg[/t][t]http://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/valve-steam-controller-prototypes-640x353.jpg[/t] and I've seen many videos that say it's just as good as a mouse nearly. what [video=youtube;VdMe4mHUH2c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdMe4mHUH2c[/video] and it's [B]not[/B] meant to be a keyboard and mouse replacement, at all. No one would say that. It's meant to not follow the exact same design we've been using for decades.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685335]Try thinking for a moment and consider the following. If a game designer were to use the feature of walking around how much space would they designate for it? 15ftx15ft, 10ftx10ft? 5ftx5ft? What would become the standard? Because game designers will want to make their game for the largest audience and if you have a computer you at the very least have a chair/chair substitute. If you are sitting down then the cables aren't an issue because you aren't walking around liable to trip on them. You all seem to be getting so defensive to the point it's like I kicked your dog, but then again Valve. Preferably something that works. Almost every video I have seen on it has shown it to be awful as a controller and mediocre as a mouse/keyboard replacement. No, but at the same time I don't walk around with it tied to my face. Do you?[/QUOTE] nice job completely ignoring the parts of this post that went counter to your anti-walking tirade you don't seem to realize that when you're already doing 3d space tracking in a chair, allowing walking is a very trivial matter; the developer doesn't need to plan for any specific walking space
[QUOTE=dai;47685366]as someone who does VR stuff for work, it's simple [i]you design your thing with a centerpoint[/i] that's it you're free to meander away from the center, but as soon as you reach your limit, you'll need to use your controller to walk your entire room around so the centerpoint is somewhere else. There's very little need in nigh all cases to consider anything more than an arm's length area in front of the computer, because most people are going to be seated, or standing pretty still with the occasional step-toward-something-to-inspect it. shit isn't going to be wii sports[/QUOTE] First Person walks forward 2ft, that is the edge of their real space but the VR room is 10ft. Your solution is to make the person disconnect from immersion, remember "oh yeah I better step back 2ft so I am centered. And then use a controller to move further? Second, genuine question, how do you use this controller to walk in any direction? [img]http://i.imgur.com/QvGvNeH.jpg[/img] [QUOTE=dai;47685366] it's more because you're throwing a horrible tantrum on the basis you're irresponsibly clumsy[/QUOTE] If you consider disagreeing with an idea "throwing a horrible tantrum" when I haven't called anyone "Mr. Humblebrag" or "irresponsibly clumsy" then I really don't know what to say.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685440]First Person walks forward 2ft, that is the edge of their real space but the VR room is 10ft. Your solution is to make the person disconnect from immersion, remember "oh yeah I better step back 2ft so I am centered. And then use a controller to move further? Second, genuine question, how do you use this controller to walk in any direction? [img]http://i.imgur.com/QvGvNeH.jpg[/img] [/quote] Standing VR is more immersive, even without much space to move. Simply being able to move naturally to get closer looks and angles on objects is great. Having more space is just a bonus. [quote]If you consider disagreeing with an idea "throwing a horrible tantrum" when I haven't called anyone "Mr. Humblebrag" or "irresponsibly clumsy" then I really don't know what to say.[/QUOTE] You came into a thread about [B]experimental hardware enthusiasm[/B] to make the claim that a [B]host of engineers don't know as well as you do[/B], declaring the whole concept of mobile VR as a waste of time. You supplemented this with no actual reasoning against proposed solutions, despite claiming to work with these concepts yourself as a means of arguing. Your argument consists of "but what if you flail around the room???" and "you guys are just fanboys". I'd say you're being accurately described.
the funny thing is that the vive will most likely already have a control program that allows you to walk in 3d space in a game that doesn't "Support" it also [video=youtube;k7n5kRRHDpw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7n5kRRHDpw[/video] and you don't need huge space or an omnitredmill [video=youtube;9iJdumg9pMk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iJdumg9pMk[/video] the only people who are going to be standing in vr are the ones willing to spend extra and plan anyways. There are additional methods that actually work for movement tracking than this as well.
[QUOTE=bitches;47685451]You came into a thread about [B]experimental hardware enthusiasm[/B] to make the claim that a [B]host of engineers don't know as well as you do[/B][/QUOTE] There is a difference between hardware enthusiasm and hardware fanaticism. When you cannot even accept the possibility that the hardware may have issues then you are a fanatic.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685469]There is a difference between hardware enthusiasm and hardware fanaticism. When you cannot even accept the possibility that the hardware may have issues then you are a fanatic.[/QUOTE] We're proposing solutions. You're saying it's all a waste of time, without explaining how such solutions would not work, or suggesting any of your own. That's throwing a tantrum. We're being reasonable, but you only came here to complain. well-mannered threadshitting at its finest
[QUOTE=bitches;47685483]We're proposing solutions. You're saying it's all a waste of time, without explaining how such solutions would not work, or suggesting any of your own. That's throwing a tantrum. We're being reasonable, but you only came here to complain.[/QUOTE] He's not here to listen he's here to force his own bullshit ideas onto other people [QUOTE=Thlis;47678766]And well educated engineering teams never follow stupid ideas. Ouya, etc.[/QUOTE] I mean look at this considering the fact that he actually thinks the ouya was well designed thing is hilarious [url]http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/28/8509005/ouya-android-microconsole-reportedly-seeking-buyer-debt[/url]
how can you even claim that proposing solutions equals not understanding that problems exist? (RIP merge) [editline]8th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;47685498] considering the fact that he actually thinks the ouya was well designed thing is hilarious[/QUOTE] he didn't say that
[QUOTE=J!NX;47685498] considering the fact that he actually thinks the ouya was well designed thing is hilarious[/QUOTE] No, that flew over your head. [QUOTE=bitches;47685499]how can you even claim that proposing solutions equals not understanding that problems exist? (RIP merge) [/QUOTE] I have been proposing problems for this hardware with little response. While you could hook the cable to the ceiling it seems like an impractical work around, further exasperated by cable length should it need to be extended. I still think that the base design is a major tripping hazard. I am more interested in the other problems I have proposed.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685517]No, that flew over your head.[/QUOTE] Like most of the points people have made towards you anyways so guess we're even then again you seem to be getting less you seem to also not understand why these concepts aren't nearly as crazy as you think. They have a HUGE test team and a lot of dollars to support them. They aren't going to just miss this type of shit. if the wire caused accidents as much as you think they would have made a fix for it you think you're spotting massive glaring flaws but you aren't lol EDIT: actually come to think of it, the ouya team didn't actually follow any new ideas at all because they only followed what was already established VR isn't an established thing, no one has actually made a released version yet. the ouya is based on already established ideas.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685469]There is a difference between hardware enthusiasm and hardware fanaticism. When you cannot even accept the possibility that the hardware may have issues then you are a fanatic.[/QUOTE] the issues being that it uses a cable and you're mad that they're giving you the option to utilize space? Several people who use the technology and understand what it's like to work around a cable are giving you solutions and otherwise explaining how it isn't as problematic as you're making it out to be. It's not difficult at all to tell where your cable is, it's draped over your shoulder, running down your side, you feel the weight of where it's pulling towards and you're extremely aware of how far you've turned or moved in any direction. You can even see out the bottom of your unit without having to push the thing off your face so you can doublecheck your placement. You're not jogging, you're not doing kickflips, and ideally you're not [url=https://youtu.be/l3V8zeSljUU?t=1m21s]this guy[/url]
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685335]Try thinking for a moment and consider the following. If a game designer were to use the feature of walking around how much space would they designate for it? 15ftx15ft, 10ftx10ft? 5ftx5ft? What would become the standard? Because game designers will want to make their game for the largest audience and if you have a computer you at the very least have a chair/chair substitute. If you are sitting down then the cables aren't an issue because you aren't walking around liable to trip on them. You all seem to be getting so defensive to the point it's like I kicked your dog, but then again Valve. Preferably something that works. Almost every video I have seen on it has shown it to be awful as a controller and mediocre as a mouse/keyboard replacement. No, but at the same time I don't walk around with it tied to my face. Do you?[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? What standard? You're the one placing unrealistic expectations on it. Being able to get up and walk around is an option and no one is expecting VR game developers to focus solely on it. It's about having the freedom and technology to do it. I agree that VR will be pretty niche as it is, and a feature to be able to move about fragments the market even more. But I look at it like tools for people to experiment with. I actually can't wait to see how it gets implemented and what people do with it even though I don't expect to see it utilized everywhere. At the end of the day you still need an external device with either system. I don't know about you but I would rather invest a little bit more and get a more robust and accurate system that supports multiple headsets, controllers and happens to work in the full range of your room. This is almost like a happy accident, but it's what differentiates Vive from the competitor products, and that is why they are marketing it so hard.
[QUOTE=dai;47685522]the issues being that it uses a cable and you're mad that they're giving you the option to utilize space? Several people who use the technology and understand what it's like to work around a cable are giving you solutions and otherwise explaining how it isn't as problematic as you're making it out to be. It's not difficult at all to tell where your cable is, it's draped over your shoulder, running down your side, you feel the weight of where it's pulling towards and you're extremely aware of how far you've turned or moved in any direction. You can even see out the bottom of your unit without having to push the thing off your face so you can doublecheck your placement. You're not jogging, you're not doing kickflips, and ideally you're not [URL="https://youtu.be/l3V8zeSljUU?t=1m21s"]this guy[/URL][/QUOTE] I am not mad about them trying to utilize space but I think the current approach is a hazard. I absolutely do not think that you're "extremely aware of how far you've turned or moved in any direction" when immersed in gameplay. I am also curious about your take on the previous questions. [QUOTE=Thlis;47685440]First Person walks forward 2ft, that is the edge of their real space but the VR room is 10ft. Your solution is to make the person disconnect from immersion, remember "oh yeah I better step back 2ft so I am centered. And then use a controller to move further? Second, genuine question, how do you use this controller to walk in any direction? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QvGvNeH.jpg[/IMG] [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685571]I am not mad about them trying to utilize space but I think the current approach is a hazard. I absolutely do not think that you're "extremely aware of how far you've turned or moved in any direction" when immersed in gameplay. I am also curious about your take on the previous questions.[/QUOTE] I already answered that question, but you ignored me because you didn't want to answer. [QUOTE=bitches;47685451]Standing VR is more immersive, even without much space to move. Simply being able to move naturally to get closer looks and angles on objects is great. Having more space is just a bonus. [/QUOTE] PS, you can absolutely display a visible boundary indicator to show if you're in the VR space. Many Oculus DK2 demos already do this. [editline]8th May 2015[/editline] And are you [I]really[/I] complaining that a [I]prototype controller[/I] may not have the input for all scenarios, yet?
[QUOTE=bitches;47685593]I already answered that question, but you ignored me because you didn't want to answer. PS, you can absolutely display a visible boundary indicator to show if you're in the VR space. Many Oculus DK2 demos already do this.[/QUOTE] The solution Dai gave was different to yours, I wanted to know how he envisions his solution to work in the given scenario. [QUOTE=bitches;47685593] And are you [I]really[/I] complaining that a [I]prototype controller[/I] may not have the input for all scenarios, yet?[/QUOTE] If it was using the solution Dai gave then I think it's pretty integral to the experience.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47685602]The solution Dai gave was different to yours, I wanted to know how he envisions his solution to work in the given scenario.[/QUOTE] Dai only referenced that others posting here have solutions, and simply stated that you're aware of where the cord is. If the cord were to go up to the ceiling, this issue would be wholly eliminated. [editline]8th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Thlis;47685602] If it was using the solution Dai gave then I think it's pretty integral to the experience.[/QUOTE] What's your point? He said that a controller could be a useful gameplay tool. He didn't say that valve's current prototype is the end-all solution.
Prototypes are going to have glaring issues. The entire [U]point[/U] of a prototype is that you test what works and what doesn't work until you get what does work. If you're going to try to point out flaws in something that isn't finished yet then you probably don't get it. you don't have to use the controllers they give you anyways, there are already some good alternatives
[QUOTE=bitches;47685617]Dai only referenced that others posting here have solutions, and simply stated that you're aware of where the cord is. If the cord were to go up to the ceiling, this issue would be wholly eliminated. [/QUOTE] Incorrect this was the suggestion given [QUOTE=dai;47685366] a player is free to meander away from the center, but as soon as you reach your limit (a wall, your desk, etc),[B] you'll need to use your controller to walk, [/B]which is best represented as your room being an invisible box that you have to cart around the simulation. (finding a good mime-in-a-box picture is proving awful)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=bitches;47685617] What's your point? He said that a controller could be a useful gameplay tool. He didn't say that valve's current prototype is the end-all solution.[/QUOTE] The solution given does not work then or is at very least unlikely to be implemented.
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