• Man commits suicide, creates biographical website documenting his life and death.
    98 replies, posted
[QUOTE]"Considering the fact that I used a gun to take care of business, I felt I was suddenly qualified to discuss the issue of gun control. Up until now, I was just another bozo with an opinion. Ah, but no longer. Now, I’m a dead bozo with an opinion."[/QUOTE] This just feels surreal to read.
[QUOTE=kaine123;41867852]This just feels surreal to read.[/QUOTE] I wish I could send him a rebuttal on some parts of that but I'm not sure it would do me or him any good
i wonder if when he was writing the jokes in this he giggled like "oh this is going to be so funny when im dead lol"
Wow he did all that after he died? Amazing!
This is just like what Hunter S. Thompson did, without the website, of course. I fully support his and this guy's actions. I believe suicide is okay to take if it's done for a well-thought out reason, if it's to avoid something inevitable, such as old age or incurable pain. Personally, I want to live a long, healthy life, but that's going to take a bit of effort.
This guy's thoughts seem to mirror mine in a sort of way, so this is really chilling for me.
I always thought it was terrible that all we really get when we die is a stone slab in a field with thousands of other stone slabs. Regardless of how I view him as a person, this is an amazing thing he's put together. Inspiring, really. I hope more people start to do this kind of thing, minus the suicide.
This man has made history, this should bring more thought into the discussion about euthanasia. Alzheimer's and dementia are a horrible thing for the patient and even worse for its family and friends, I would rather die than "live" through that, I wouldn't want my family or close friends having to take on that burden if I got these diseases.
[quote]The third most likely reason people want to stay alive is probably related to wanting to see the future. How will my kids develop? How many grandchildren will I have? Will my Cubs ever win the World Series? Will they make a car that goes forever on cold fusion? Is the earth going to come to a screeching halt at some point for this or that reason? Will we discover alien life? “I want to know!” I understood that. There were a lot of those issues for me. After all, I stated that I was extremely curious – not just about the past or present, but also the future. I wanted to know if the Kansas City Royals were ever going to be good and it would have been a blast to be there when they were. I wanted to know if my ex-step daughters had children and what kind of parents they became. I wanted to know how long our poker group stayed together (24 years and counting). I wanted to know what kinds of technologies were going to make life more interesting or convenient. I wanted to know a thousand things that will happen in the future… …but that’s not enough reason. And, again I point to the blip argument. There will always be reasons to want to stay alive another year or five years or 10 years. It wouldn’t have mattered how long I lived, there would have been hundreds or thousands of itches to scratch! Don’t think there weren’t times every single day when my mind would be tempted to say “I can’t wait until (pick a date) to see what happens with (pick a subject)” regarding the future beyond August 15, 2013… but I never waivered for a single second because I always knew that whatever day I died – whether 2013 or 2023 or 2033, I would never have been able to satisfy those thoughts.•[/quote] I think this is where he fucked up.
What he says there is perfectly plausible.
He lists a bunch of things that he'd love to see, then says that that there could be endless number of things that he'd love to see. The rationale thought then would be to maintain your life long enough to SEE as many of those things as possible. His conclusion that "Well theres probably lots of things I won't see" is not a justification FOR suicide, which means the argument still holds.
[QUOTE=Flameon;41868846]He lists a bunch of things that he'd love to see, then says that that there could be endless number of things that he'd love to see. The rationale thought then would be to maintain your life long enough to SEE as many of those things as possible. His conclusion that "Well theres probably lots of things I won't see" is not a justification FOR suicide, which means the argument still holds.[/QUOTE] There are reasons for and against suicide. In an effort to make the best decision, he considered both. This is a reason against. He acknowledges that and chose suicide anyway. he never said this was a reason to commit suicide.
[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;41868879]There are reasons for and against suicide. In an effort to make the best decision, he considered both. This is a reason against. He acknowledges that and chose suicide anyway. he never said this was a reason to commit suicide.[/QUOTE] No, he didn't. The whole "why not" section is him answering the claims people make [B][I]against [/I][/B]suicide. I'm saying his issue was that he thought this statement [quote]Don’t think there weren’t times every single day when my mind would be tempted to say “I can’t wait until (pick a date) to see what happens with (pick a subject)” regarding the future beyond August 15, 2013… but I never waivered for a single second because I always knew that whatever day I died – whether 2013 or 2023 or 2033, I would never have been able to satisfy those thoughts.•[/quote] Was a sufficient answer to the objection: What about all the great things you'll see in the future? [editline]17th August 2013[/editline] Which it obviously isn't. Infact, the whole route he ends up essentially agreeing with it by listing all the things he'd love to see. Which makes his conclusion all the more nonsensical.
[QUOTE=Flameon;41868895]What about all the great things you'll see in the future? [/QUOTE] I don't think you understand what he's saying. The point he's making is there is [B]always[/B] more things to see in the future. There is always a tomorrow, and a tomorrow after that and after that. If you keep waiting til tomorrow, next thing you know, you're in a nursing home. Instead of doing that, he set a date and stuck to it.
[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;41868911]I don't think you understand what he's saying. The point he's making is there is [B]always[/B] more things to see in the future. There is always a tomorrow, and a tomorrow after that and after that. If you keep waiting til tomorrow, next thing you know, you're in a nursing home. Instead of doing that, he set a date and stuck to it.[/QUOTE] If he said "eventually I would run out of things to live for, and badabing here I am." Then THAT would answer the arguement, but saying, "Ya you are right, there are an infinite number of things out there to live for." that doesn't answer the claim due :\. If he said: I decided that while this was a valid excuse, but my nursing home concern outweighs. Then yes, that too would answer the argument. But he didn't, his answer to the argument reconfirmed it. What we have here is a lonely guy who felt like he was losing control of his body and his mind. Because he spent a lot of time justifying his actions does nothing to make it any less tragic.
[QUOTE=Flameon;41868930]If he said "eventually I would run out of things to live for, and badabing here I am." Then THAT would answer the arguement, but saying, "Ya you are right, there are an infinite number of things out there to live for." that doesn't answer the claim due :\. If he said: I decided that while this was a valid excuse, but my nursing home concern outweighs. Then yes, that too would answer the argument. But he didn't, his answer to the argument reconfirmed it. What we have here is a lonely guy who felt like he was losing control of his body and his mind. Because he spent a lot of time justifying his actions does nothing to make it any less tragic.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, what we are doing here is speculating. The fact is, the only insight we have into his mind are the words he wrote. We cannot ask him what he meant by anything, or to specify or clarify or anything. He was suicidal. His decision making process is so far removed from most of ours that it is difficult to fathom. If an argument seems faulty to you, it does not mean it wasn't perfectly valid in his mind. His is the only one that matters.
[QUOTE=Flameon;41868930]Because he spent a lot of time justifying his actions does nothing to make it any less tragic.[/QUOTE] I think the whole website is set up so people don't see this as tragic?
^^That doesn't make it any less tragic :\
guy had a sense of humor "If you are trying to imagine what it was like in the closing minutes - standing there next to a tree in the dark at the corner of a parking lot all by myself with a gun and a bullet... you are worrying too much about what must have been going through my head - no pun intended."
[QUOTE=BANG!;41868474]This man has made history, this should bring more thought into the discussion about euthanasia. Alzheimer's and dementia are a horrible thing for the patient and even worse for its family and friends, I would rather die than "live" through that, I wouldn't want my family or close friends having to take on that burden if I got these diseases.[/QUOTE] This guy is a great example of the western mode of thinking. He sees the human being as an analytic and rational cog in the great machine, as it were. Once it outlives it's usefulness and ceases efficient functioning, it is replaced and never thought about. Now even your most hardened science bandwagoneer still has emotions, beliefs and conditioning impacting their lives so heavily, regardless of how much they may reject that notion. One of these core beliefs is everything we think about death. Awareness itself births the idea of non-awareness or more clearly, absence of awareness. Over time humans have developed language and ability to form concepts around such things. The concepts surrounding non-awareness are overtly negative owing a great deal to early religious influence, and later, the [I]'knowledge is god'[/I] - with non-existence being seen as the ultimate no-knowledge. The end. Death is really seen as 'a bad thing' through our eyes. Tragic, terrible, sad, weeping etc. We can't see it as anything other than these things. This is simply how we have been conditioned see it. It is simply our 'take on death' through our own goggles of conditioning. By conditioning I mean what you learned when growing up, mentally and physically, from other people - and how this continues from generation to generation. It is by no means absolute, so to what degree is it true? In some cultures death and loss are seen very differently to how we see it. Sometimes death itself is celebrated and parties take place. At one stage, human sacrifice was acceptable and people volunteered to die. Some people revoke worldly possessions as temporary attachments. Some even see concepts and thoughts themselves as fleeting and temporary attachments and discard those. There are unlimited numbers of different worldviews out there. Despite how much it seems like there might not be, because at first you can only see your own... It honestly seems like this guy might have committed suicide due to boredom. He had his fixed beliefs about the world, and nothing ever challenged that. Nothing to see. Nothing to do. Nowhere to go. No reason to be around. So really there's a lot of other things out there that you should open your eyes to, before deciding that your way is absolute, because it's likely just what you've learned from other people and not 'yours' at all. Zen for instance. I can't really go into what it is (it isn't).. I guess a western interpretation of 'beginner Zen practice' would be along the lines of: Notice thoughts arising. Notice attachment to thoughts. Look at the idea of your 'self' - An idea of your 'self' which really... is nothing more than an idea. Notice the gap between one thought and another - a momentary flash of blissful silence amid the otherwise roaring, cacophonous, continual bombardment of concepts and ideas. If death is the absence of thoughts and concepts, then what is the space between thoughts? Death whilst alive? Is the concept of 'suicide' still present when in between thoughts? Are any concepts present at that moment? No. Thoughts exist as and of themselves. If your considering anything, it's a thought. It is temporary in the grand scheme of things, despite how much you may currently attach to it. It really does shake things up, to dive headlong into a tradition which contrasts so heavily with what you've always known (or think you know) - and that's why this sort of thing interests me so much, despite how crazy or reckless it may seem. I guarantee the word 'bored' will never cross your mind ever again, however, if you seriously start doing this (doesn't necessarily have to be Zen). Ironically, Zen masters are usually aware of the day when they will physically die before it happens. Perhaps they simply un-believe themselves out of existence.
I made a mirror for those who want to read it: [url]http://www.greker.org/and/Manley/[/url]
How pointless, killing yourself because you're afraid. This dude had a shitty view on life. Aspergers at minimum.
[QUOTE=Garik;41869182]How pointless, killing yourself because you're afraid. This dude had a shitty view on life. Aspergers at minimum.[/QUOTE] Says the one who is accusing a dead man of having aspergers. That's a good look.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;41864763]this is certainly an interesting person[/QUOTE] I think it runs in families, my grandfather did it, my father is planning to do it, and I can't say that I don't see myself doing it. Growing so old or dying of a painful disease absolutely horrifies me and makes me resent my country's laws since that legal euthanization isn't a thing. [editline]17th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Garik;41869182]How pointless, killing yourself because you're afraid. This dude had a shitty view on life. Aspergers at minimum.[/QUOTE] "Man has different opinion than I do, must have autism, only option."
Oh dear we share the same Birthday :( Did he leave any relations behind? I couldn't see any tbh
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;41869156]This guy is a great example... So really there's a lot of other things out there that you should open your eyes to, before deciding that your way is absolute, because it's likely just what you've learned from other people and not 'yours' at all.[/QUOTE] I haven't set my mind to "if I get dementia/Alzheimer I'll suicide", it might be what I am thinking now, probably years later I might change my mind about this. [QUOTE=SCopE5000;41869156]This guy is a great example of the western mode of thinking. He sees the human being as an analytic and rational cog in the great machine[/QUOTE] I think we are machines, biological machines, this is something almost everyone refuses to accept, but we are, we are just extremely complex so much that we can't predict ourselves, we seem to be random and not machines, since we have thoughts, this is what makes us diverse and different to one another and the interaction between one another makes us change, so I think that's what makes us human and that we really aren't machines the only machine we have is our body and it decays. And that is my point, if your body decays you will die, it can be any part(s) of the body and in most cases you can fight to live longer but what if your brain physically starts decaying and as a result your mind starts to dysfunction? Maybe I am just scared and would prefer to die than live through dementia/Alzheimer but I am more concerned about the torture that it would be for family and friends, seeing someone loosing their mind, forgetting who they are, what they do, not recognizing close ones, being scared of everyone and everything, really it seems more destructive for the person and its close ones than any other slow death where at least you still have your mind and the capacity to fight. Maybe we should be able to choose with our family and friends if we can peacefully go in the case where the brain starts dysfunction and if there is no solution to repair this, of course there is the issue that euthanasia could be misused, so yeah its still a hard topic. Some people will fight through it, and if someone wants to fight the disease like dementia/Alzheimer I would support them, but I still think brain dysfunction is a nightmare beyond anything you can imagine because your mind, memories and thoughts are slowly decomposing and you can't even think for yourself. I hope there will be more progress on medical solutions to dementia/Alzheimer, I am not scared of dying or fighting to live longer but the mind dying before the body, is scary because you loose coherence and capability to think and so far there isn't much you can do about it. To put it simple, what's the point of living if your memories are erased and your brain can no longer work to think or learn again? [QUOTE=SCopE5000;41869156]It honestly seems like this guy might have committed suicide due to boredom. He had his fixed beliefs about the world, and nothing ever challenged that. Nothing to see. Nothing to do. Nowhere to go. No reason to be around.[/QUOTE] I have been focused on the dementia thing but I agree on that he definitely seemed bored, it probably was part of why he did what he did, he could probably have lived a bit longer with still enough capacity to think for himself, I don't we can judge him though, its more of a choice for himself, his family and friends.
[QUOTE=BANG!;41870064] I have been focused on the dementia thing but I agree on that he definitely seemed bored, it probably was part of why he did what he did, he could probably have lived a bit longer with still enough capacity to think for himself, I don't we can judge him though, its more of a choice for himself, his family and friends.[/QUOTE] How can you judge that? Infact, from what I saw he kept a relatively constant online presence and was rather active in life. He said so himself, he had numerous hobbies and activities, choir, poker, etc.
[QUOTE=Jalict;41865479]Even his other site have a little message about him going. [URL="http://sportsinreview.com/blog/?p=8679#more-8679"]http://sportsinreview.com/blog/?p=8679#more-8679[/URL][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Martin]This site, as well as martinmanleylifeanddeath.com will be active at least until early 2018 because it is prepaid that long.[/QUOTE] This thread made me sad.
[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;41871228]This thread made me sad.[/QUOTE] Oh god, why did the site go down? That's really depressing
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;41871180]How can you judge that? Infact, from what I saw he kept a relatively constant online presence and was rather active in life. He said so himself, he had numerous hobbies and activities, choir, poker, etc.[/QUOTE] Typo I meant " I don't [B]think [/B]we can judge him though" If you mean for saying he seemed boring, he mentions that waiting for interesting future events to happen isn't really worth to keep going. I don't think having hobbies means you necessarily enjoy them, a lot of people have hobbies just to fill their time even though they might not be passionate about it. I am not saying what he did is wrong, I kind of approve of it in fact if you read my previous posts, I am simply saying perhaps he still could have lived longer but he was a bit bored in general.
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