• Protests over Charlotte Police Shooting move to Highway
    161 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Xonax;51088406]The Irony here is that MLK protested peacefully, look where that got him, look where that got black people.[/QUOTE] Many of these protests are peaceful? MLK was known to utilize similar strategies, such as blocking highways during his own protests. I imagine if he were alive today you'd be making the same excuses. [quote]This shit, the whole shit in Charlotte, the whole shit in other places, is not how you do a protest, it's not how you get people to listen and agree with you, it's how you get people to turn on you. These "protesters" are criminals, they deserve to be arrested. And yes Black people do get shot more often than White people, but it doesn't mean people should go out and case something like this crap, something where they steal from people, they assault people, they try to kill people and scream Murder before attacking people. [/quote] I'm not seeing where this has happened? Where are the reports of these murders? Why are you actively hoping that people protesting against an institutional discrimination problem should be arrested? [quote]I will never support people like this, I won't sympathize with them. These people don't deserve my sympathy. You know who do? The Black people who aren't like this, the Black people who actually want a change. The non-violent Black people who don't support any of this. Fuck, even the Violent Black People who don't support this, deserves my Sympathy more than these lot.[/quote] So the people out on the streets protesting don't actually want change at all? Seems to me like you'd just like them to keep quiet so you don't have to acknowledge the problem. [quote]Cause now, Black people, are looking worse than they have been looked at for years. All justification of their Movement, is gone. A lot of the stuff in the last year regarding Racism, has regressed the progress MLK made. Remember how Black People and White People couldn't be in the same Dorms before MLK came along? Well fuck MLK, cause now it's just like that again. This won't cause any progress, it will cause regress.[/quote] And the cherry on this shit sundae of a post. The classic "it's black people's fault that racism exists!" Followed by something that didn't even happen to justify such a regressive position, and the invocation of MLK, who seems to be the archetypal "good black person" stereotype people seem to be obsessed with now despite him and his efforts being similar in many important ways. actually, here's a quote from the man himself [quote]"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."[/quote]
[QUOTE=Tudd;51088087]BLM and supporters should take a history lesson and learn from MLK on how to protest with meaningful goals. Pillaging and looting their own communities and blocking highways/businesses (with no direct connection to racism), has actually damaged their own community created more racism. [/QUOTE] I agree with you on the looting, but you know blocking highways and businesses was one of the chief non-violent methods of protest that MLK used, right? If the Selma to Montgomery Marches happened today half this forum would be complaining about them blocking a major highway. It's really weird to say 'don't use this tactic, be like MLK' when they're using that tactic because it was used by MLK. [QUOTE=Tudd;51088087]Could you please answer by the way how this was a racist shooting when it was black officer that shot the black person though?[/QUOTE] I can answer that- because [url=http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/11/25/does-ferguson-show-that-cops-who-kill-get-off-too-easily/structural-and-institutional-racism-exists-within-police-forces]institutional/structural racism[/url] isn't 'white cops hate black people', it's about how the rules and structure of police forces encourage disproportionate force against minorities through policy. If you want some clear examples, read the Department of Justice's report on Ferguson, or just skim [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/03/04/the-12-key-highlights-from-the-dojs-scathing-ferguson-report/?utm_term=.017561b50835]the Washington Post's summary[/url]. The tl;dr is that training, policy, a lack of community involvement, quotas, and erroneous perception of risk all combine to make police officers of all races harsher towards minorities. It doesn't require that all police officers be consciously biased against minorities. Furthermore, even leaving systemic racism aside, implicit bias tests routinely reveal [url=http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/black-on-black-racism-the-hazards-of-implicit-bias/384028/]black Americans being biased against blacks[/url], so 'he can't be racist against blacks because he's black' isn't a legitimate argument in the first place. Black people aren't sometimes racist against blacks because they secretly hate their own race, it's more that the same social factors that drive whites to exhibit unconscious bias tend to apply to other races as well. But that's really a separate issue from institutional bias which is the main issue with race and policing.
[QUOTE]I'm not seeing where this has happened? Where are the reports of these murders?[/QUOTE] He never said there were murders. [QUOTE]Why are you actively hoping that people protesting against an institutional discrimination problem should be arrested?[/QUOTE] Notice the quotation marks. He's referring to the rioters. [QUOTE]So the people out on the streets protesting don't actually want change at all? Seems to me like you'd just like them to keep quiet so you don't have to acknowledge the problem.[/QUOTE] Once again he's referring to the rioters. I'm pretty sure the people who break shit, assault people and steal stuff are just using this as a pretext. [QUOTE]And the cherry on this shit sundae of a post. The classic [B]"it's black people's fault that racism exists!"[/B] Followed by something that didn't even happen to justify such a regressive position, and the invocation of MLK, who seems to be the archetypal "good black person" stereotype people seem to be obsessed with now despite him and his efforts being similar in many important ways.[/QUOTE] Where the fuck did he say that? Do you even read what you're quoting?
[QUOTE=_Axel;51088536]He never said there were murders. Notice the quotation marks. He's referring to the rioters. Once again he's referring to the rioters. I'm pretty sure the people who break shit, assault people and steal stuff are just using this as a pretext.[/QUOTE] I misread the line about murder, still, to try and imply that a lose association of people protesting a common issue should all be arrested because of a select few is as funny as it is worrying. [QUOTE]Where the fuck did he say that? Do you even read what you're quoting? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Cause now, [B]Black people, are looking worse than they have been looked at for years.[/B] All justification of their Movement, is gone. A lot of the stuff in the last year regarding Racism, has regressed the progress MLK made. Remember how Black People and White People couldn't be in the same Dorms before MLK came along? Well fuck MLK, cause now it's just like that again. This won't cause any progress, it will cause regress.[/QUOTE] The direct implication being made here is that black people, or BLM specifically, is somehow responsible for a regression from the progress made towards equality previously as a result of these controversies. As if they are solely responsible for the institutional discrimination they face. The goal of a protest isn't to make you like them, it's to draw attention to an issue people normally ignore. It's a phoney progressive position to take, not actually interested in seeing an issue resolved, but rather it be resolved maybe with as little inconvenience to people as possible which is contrary to the point of a protest in the first place.
There was a pretty ridiculous article about BLM protestors on my campus: [url]http://rvamag.com/articles/full/26548/students-and-locals-gather-at-vcu-campus-after-two-black-men-shot-and[/url]
[QUOTE=Streecer;51088564]I misread the line about murder, still, to try and imply that a lose association of people protesting a common issue should all be arrested because of a select few is as funny as it is worrying.[/QUOTE] But he's talking about the rioters? He's not saying we should arrest everyone that's protesting. [QUOTE]The direct implication being made here is that black people, or BLM specifically, is somehow responsible for a regression from the progress made towards equality previously as a result of these controversies. As if they are solely responsible for the institutional discrimination they face.[/QUOTE] Well, some aspects of the movement [I]do[/I] cause regression. For instance their protesting every instance of black people being shot regardless of whether lethal force is justified increase tensions for no valid reason. The police are depicted as racist cowboys when about half of the shootings that are being protested were legitimate. There's also bullshit sensationalist stuff like the "militarization" of police, all things that generate a distrust of police from the community, which would greatly benefit from some of their members enrolling into the local police force. Unfortunately all of these things greatly discourage them from doing so, and those who do are regarded as traitors.
[QUOTE=Streecer;51088564] The goal of a protest isn't to make you like them, it's to draw attention to an issue people normally ignore. It's a phoney progressive position to take, not actually interested in seeing an issue resolved, but rather it be resolved maybe with as little inconvenience to people as possible which is contrary to the point of a protest in the first place.[/QUOTE] You know what happens when you make the people whos attention you now have actively dislike you? They dont like whatever issue you are trumpeting. Part of protesting actually is to get people to like you, because that gets then to support your issue. If you make them dislike you they very easily risk them going the opposite direction and destroying your chances. You know why MLK and his protests were successful? Support. They made sure people saw them in a positive light, that it was plainly visible they were the victims of an unfair, abusive system. BLM has done nothing to that effect and has instead managed to portray themselves as a prejudice racial superiority movement. Especially once the facts of the overwhelming majority of the cases that lead to their protests come to light. Its funny seeing people without a clue repeat the same diatribe about protesting, literally not understanding it at all and instead creating an uninformed framework that from the outset is plainly pointed towards failure. Then they complain when they arent getting what they want and push their uninformed ideas even harder. It's case of preaching to the choir, who already know and support everything you're telling them. But it's isolating everyone else, the mass of people you need for support. But the ones pushing this feel they don't need that mass support because they have determined they are in the right and anyone who isnt with then is against them. They're better than the people who arent supporting them because those people aren't on their side and can therefore be ignored. This shines through in the methods and rhetoric of BLM. They feel they don't need to trouble themselves with the masses, that they can do this entirely on their own as though guided by holy light. So they are more than happy to blame the white suburban families and tell others to burn down homes in white suburbs. Or call for special privileges and protections that are thinly veiled racial preferences and segregation.
[QUOTE=Streecer;51088564]I misread the line about murder, still, to try and imply that a lose association of people protesting a common issue should all be arrested because of a select few is as funny as it is worrying. [/QUOTE] Uhm, Rioting is not protesting. Rioting is Rioting. [quote] The direct implication being made here is that black people, or BLM specifically, is somehow responsible for a regression from the progress made towards equality previously as a result of these controversies. As if they are solely responsible for the institutional discrimination they face.[/quote] To be honest, I was thinking of something else, got two things mixed up. My bad. [quote]The goal of a protest isn't to make you like them, it's to draw attention to an issue people normally ignore. It's a phoney progressive position to take, not actually interested in seeing an issue resolved, [B]but rather it be resolved maybe with as little inconvenience to people as possible which is contrary to the point of a protest in the first place.[/B][/quote] So starting fires, breaking windows, assaulting people, beating people, yelling "Murder" and "Kill", blocking highways and stealing from stores, is totally fine with protesting? Are you serious?
[QUOTE=Llamalord;51088179]I'll be fine, you can go find my pictures on the bodybuilding thread in the general discussion subforum[/QUOTE]This stands out for me because it's hilarious. Look buddy, if you want to kick off a race war and have a black revolution that's fine. Good fucking luck though because the stereotype that gun owners are straight [U]white[/U] males does have a kernel of truth to it and relying on your manly, manly muscles to fight men with """assault rifles""" is going to work out [I]great.[/I] Just like it did for the Boxers, go read up about them. Meanwhile I'm building an AR in .458 SOCOM [I]just in case.[/I]
[QUOTE=_Axel;51088642]Well, some aspects of the movement [I]do[/I] cause regression. For instance their protesting every instance of black people being shot regardless of whether lethal force is justified increase tensions for no valid reason. The police are depicted as racist cowboys when about half of the shootings that are being protested were legitimate. There's also bullshit sensationalist stuff like the "militarization" of police, all things that generate a distrust of police from the community, which would greatly benefit from some of their members enrolling into the local police force. Unfortunately all of these things greatly discourage them from doing so, and those who do are regarded as traitors.[/QUOTE] This guy gets it. The Ferguson report documented a clear racial bias to police forces in this country, but that doesn't mean it's okay to riot over justified shootings. Police policy in training and budget cuts have reduced police connection with the community, but inner-city communities calling their own brothers and sons 'uncle toms' or 'acting white' because they want to become involved with police is a problem too. There are substantial problems with police in this country but that doesn't exonerate everything BLM and their supporters are doing. This is a complex issue that permeates society and can't be solved by pointing fingers at just one group.
As a marxist it's pretty disturbing how often the ideology is used in our day to justify race war.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51089013]As a marxist it's pretty disturbing how often the ideology is used in our day to justify race war.[/QUOTE] What does this even mean? "the ideology"? What ideology?
[media]https://twitter.com/LibertarianQn/status/778845840496594944[/media] BLM is different from MLK's civil rights movement because it's "leaderless". Also, the people who founded BLM are radical leftists while MLK was a moderate liberal. They have the right to peacefully protest but when stuff like the video I linked happens, it just destroys the point of their protesting and does more damage to their movement.
[QUOTE=Fort83;51089067]And yet white people are the apparent racists...[/QUOTE] Racism by whites isn't invalidated by anti white racism by blacks. Both can exist at the same time.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;51089049][media]https://twitter.com/LibertarianQn/status/778845840496594944[/media] BLM is different from MLK's civil rights movement because it's "leaderless". Also, the people who founded BLM are radical leftists while MLK was a moderate liberal. They have the right to peacefully protest but when stuff like the video I linked happens, it just destroys the point of their protesting and does more damage to their movement.[/QUOTE] I like to say that BLM aren't protestors, honestly
[Quote]What does this even mean? "the ideology"? What ideology?[/quote] Left wing ideology? America has a pretty significant intersection of race and class. most people identify more with race before they identify with class (like in Britain), and at the same time the left is dead since the cold war and mostly retreated from economics into culture critique and pinning hopes on demographic change to achieve political consciousness. Today's Marxists are much less independent of liberals than in the past. America is also very capitalist and its structural weaknesses have been exposed by globalization. I think a class conflict is kind of inevitable considering our inequality, however I think it'll sooner degenerate into a race war because many of these people have written off white people as inherently bought off and not oppressed by capitalism, they simply can't be working class. These absurdities first of all guaranteed bernie's loss to a clinton, and secondly have paved the way for a group of reactionaries to legitimately position themselves as advocates for whites, cementing a racial divide socialists have long tried to mend. The rivalry between alt right white nationalists and SJWs is pretty reminiscent of the old divide between nazis and communists, although this time it's not the right receiving insitutional support. This has dangerous implications imo
[QUOTE=Fort83;51089123]According to one side racism is only a white thing. They like to state that blacks cannot be racist at all, but only prejudicial towards white people. That no matter what, white people are the racist privileged oppressors in society.[/QUOTE] Who's the one side?
[QUOTE=Conscript;51089134]Left wing ideology? America has a pretty significant intersection of race and class. most people identify more with race before they identify with class (like in Britain), and at the same time the left is dead since the cold war and mostly retreated from economics into culture critique and pinning hopes on demographic change to achieve political consciousness. Today's Marxists are much less independent of liberals than in the past. America is also very capitalist and its structural weaknesses have been exposed by globalization. I think a class conflict is kind of inevitable considering our inequality, however I think it'll sooner degenerate into a race war because many of these people have written off white people as inherently bought off and not oppressed by capitalism, they simply can't be working class. These absurdities first of all guaranteed bernie's loss to a clinton, and secondly have paved the way for a group of reactionaries to legitimately position themselves as advocates for whites, cementing a racial divide socialists have long tried to mend. The rivalry between alt right white nationalists and SJWs is pretty reminiscent of the old divide between nazis and communists, although this time it's not the right receiving insitutional support. This has dangerous implications imo[/QUOTE] Oh. Interesting view. Scary time to be a moderate. Seeing everyone else devolve into identity politics, and I just want a moderate who will try to maintain the middle class status quo
Wait, I don't really understand... Why did the brother care to input "all white people are devils" when it was a black cop that shot his brothers? Did he not get the memo?
[QUOTE=Mkt778;51088981]I think its incredibly sad that after coming the closest we've ever been to being united as a planet- to realize that all of our struggles are uniquely similar and that every man woman and child is equal at the end of the day... That we're now basically doing a 180 in the complete opposite direction out of stubbornness. And now we have to sit and listen to bullshit like community leaders/colleges campus' unironically say with a straight face that segregation and continued aggression towards the issue is the 'right way to go'. Instead of even [I]trying[/I] to have a sensible conversation on the issue. People would rather just gang together in packs on social media, or riot pointlessly for weeks to no avail. This isn't unique to either the left OR right, white or blacks, etc. I'm not trying to say which one is the right answer but, seriously... Errybody just needs to calm the fuck down. Sit down and go: "Alright, we've both got serious problems. We're going to fix it."[/QUOTE] I agree. This issue requires actual co-operation and discuss between all sides. I fear, however, that we have almost completely moved away from co-operation in politics and communities and have given into fear and hate. I think that's down to the media as well as the political system in the States - Republicans and Democrats increasingly refuse to co-operate with each other and view each other as enemies. This attitude I feel has become a part of American society, which is very sad. There are both black community leaders and police groups working together to try and solve these issues, and they have had success. But their success is being drowned out by stories like this one, both because obviously violence isn't the way to go - but also because the media knows these type of stories are what drives the clicks and gives them the money, not positive success stories. It's a terrible, terrible situation. It's really starting to remind me of Northern Ireland in the 60s - whose Civil Rights for Catholics, I will mention, was inspired by the Civil Rights movement in the States...
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51089206]Wait, I don't really understand... Why did the brother care to input "all white people are devils" when it was a black cop that shot his brothers? Did he not get the memo?[/QUOTE] BLM/That guy get their memos through bias blog posts and twitter messages or simply jumping to conclusions. They need to up their memo game.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;51089049][media]https://twitter.com/LibertarianQn/status/778845840496594944[/media] [/QUOTE] Fucking savages.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;51089388]Fucking savages.[/QUOTE] Guys, guys. We don't want to be treated like criminals, let's go beat someone up for being another race because the police are racist! :speechless:
[QUOTE=Redcoat893;51089424]Guys, guys. We don't want to be treated like criminals, let's go beat someone up for being another race because the police are racist! :speechless:[/QUOTE] I'm starting to wonder is this a fight on racism or on police? Because the officer was [B]black[/B]
These people don't even know what they're fighting for anymore - other than money. We already know they're getting backed by Soros after all.
[QUOTE=BioWaster;51089667]These people don't even know what they're fighting for anymore - other than money. We already know they're getting backed by Soros after all.[/QUOTE] I don't understand the Soros conspiracy. How is Soros contributing to this?
[QUOTE=BioWaster;51089667]We already know they're getting backed by Soros after all.[/QUOTE] Ah yes, the Bogeyman of the Alt-Right, and possibly the Right in general. If he didn't use his money for various (sometimes questionable) Leftist causes, he would be considered an absolute genius using Capitalism to it's highest potential to become one of the richest men on Earth.
Soros has been funding regime change since the late 80s and unrest in the eastern bloc. He's real, one of those billionaires whose 'philanthropy' is political change [QUOTE=proboardslol;51089191]Oh. Interesting view. Scary time to be a moderate. Seeing everyone else devolve into identity politics, and I just want a moderate who will try to maintain the middle class status quo[/QUOTE] It is an awful time. I'm pretty committed to understanding what's happening as someone that's both a 'white male' and a socialist
[QUOTE=BioWaster;51089667]These people don't even know what they're fighting for anymore - other than money. We already know they're getting backed by Soros after all.[/QUOTE] Interesting claim, have any evidence to back that up?
[QUOTE=greasemunky;51089703]Interesting claim, have any evidence to back that up?[/QUOTE] [url]http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/[/url]
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