• Citizen saves cop with a 165 yard shot.
    176 replies, posted
Also, saying "US is most violent" is dumb, IMO. There are 50 states up there, all with different laws, people and crime rates. Using the US as a whole in statistics is irrelevant. It'd be like comparing the entirety of the EU to another single country. We shall note instead, that a lot of places with strict gun control measures still have loads of crimes, see Detroit, Chicago, NY, LA... Then there's states like New Hampshire, Vermont and others. Laxest gun laws (as in, "walk in gun store, exit a hour later with enough firearms to conquer Poland"), lowest damn crime.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;37071724]Are you seriously saying that since the violence rate in the UK isn't as high as the US it doesn't matter that they have the strictest gun laws AND highest violent crime rate in the EU? Shoulda known that my merge would be murdered.[/QUOTE] uhh yeah that's exactly what i'm saying. you've yet to show any correlation between the UK's gun control and their violent crime rates and considering they're still better off than the USA even WITH more gun control, there's no real reason for me NOT to say that..
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37071717]what? "the numbers in the source were from 2005, after it had returned to a fairly normal state." sorry did you miss the part where these statistics reach back to the 1980's? [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] all you do in these threads is complain about people not being nice, it's almost as if you have nothing else to contribute lol[/QUOTE] The numbers in my source showed that despite having strict gun laws when compared to other states it had 3 times the violent crime and 5 times the murder rate.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;37071758]The numbers in my source showed that despite having strict gun laws when compared to other states it had 3 times the violent crime and 5 times the murder rate.[/QUOTE] right.. and that proves it was gun control's fault because __________
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37071747]uhh yeah that's exactly what i'm saying. you've yet to show any correlation between the UK's gun control and their violent crime rates and considering they're still better off than the USA even WITH more gun control, there's no real reason for me NOT to say that..[/QUOTE] The US rate is dropping despite relaxed gun laws... but I guess anything showing that gun laws might decrease violent crime is just a coincidence resulting from outside factors.
maybe the US has such a high crime rate because of their piss poor quality of life and education system, i dunno ITS JUST A HUNCH even i can admit gun control won't do anything in the state it's currently in. you need a bit of everything.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;37071774]The US rate is dropping despite relaxed gun laws... but I guess anything showing that gun laws might decrease violent crime is just a coincidence resulting from outside factors.[/QUOTE] wow fascinating still waiting on some sort of evidence to suggest less gun control is the REASON behind this drop in crime
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37071764]right.. and that proves it was gun control's fault because __________[/QUOTE] States with less gun control had violent crime rates drastically lower? You understand this argument can be used against you just as easily as you can use it. If you were to ever post any statistics showing gun control eases violent crime everyone could just say that it's different factors that are causing the drop because you can't PROVE they are related. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;37071741]Also, saying "US is most violent" is dumb, IMO. There are 50 states up there, all with different laws, people and crime rates. Using the US as a whole in statistics is irrelevant. It'd be like comparing the entirety of the EU to another single country. We shall note instead, that a lot of places with strict gun control measures still have loads of crimes, see Detroit, Chicago, NY, LA... Then there's states like New Hampshire, Vermont and others. Laxest gun laws (as in, "walk in gun store, exit a hour later with enough firearms to conquer Poland"), lowest damn crime.[/QUOTE] Yeah but you can't prove they're related so haha got you there.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;37071707]Even after the fall, it's still a massively higher number than the rest of the country. Notice the numbers in the source were from 2005, after it had returned to a fairly normal state. The google links were not meant to show the US has less crime than the UK, but that the US crime rate is dropping while the UK rate is holding steady at best.[/QUOTE] Well actually... For 2011/12 • Homicides (includes murder, manslaughter and infanticide) fell year-on-year from 638 to 550 - a 13.8% drop • Attempted murders dropped by 7.6%, from 523 to 483 • Firearms offences (not inlcuding air weapons) recorded by the police are down by 15.8%. The 2011/12 total of 5,199 represents a continuation of the steady decline since 2005/06, when the figure was more than twice as high [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales[/url]
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;37071741] It'd be like comparing the entirety of the EU to another single country. [/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution[/url]
[QUOTE=James*;37071845]Well actually... For 2011/12 • Homicides (includes murder, manslaughter and infanticide) fell year-on-year from 638 to 550 - a 13.8% drop • Attempted murders dropped by 7.6%, from 523 to 483 • Firearms offences (not inlcuding air weapons) recorded by the police are down by 15.8%. The 2011/12 total of 5,199 represents a continuation of the steady decline since 2005/06, when the figure was more than twice as high [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales[/url][/QUOTE] So violence in both areas are down, with no heed for gun control. Out of curiosity, what would the numbers be with air weapons included? I know it's probably a small number, but I can't help but ask.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;37071885]So violence in both areas are down, with no heed for gun control. Out of curiosity, what would the numbers be with air weapons included? I know it's probably a small number, but I can't help but ask.[/QUOTE] with no heed of gun control? what is that even supposed to mean overall violence including firearms offenses are lowering all while "the strictest gun control in europe" is enacted. i know you're trying desperately to cleverly parrot me saying you have to show a link rather than a correlation, but that doesn't work very well when your entire point is that stricter gun control will lead to higher crime rates.. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] also find the air guns statistic yourself if you're that desperate to disprove a statistic
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37070466]haha epic win because thats exactly what the anti-gun people say in anti-gun threads LOL!!!! for the win dude... love how gun nuts come out of the woodwork to preemptively defend their moronic obsession with guns lmao [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] but dont you see? 1/99999999999999 cases of gun use are to save police officers! cant you stupid libs understand that the reward greatly outweighs the risk??[/QUOTE] Kopimi, you have to be one of the shittiest posters on here...
[QUOTE=Talkbox;37071855][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution[/url][/QUOTE] And that is relevant how, exactly?
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37071924]with no heed of gun control? what is that even supposed to mean overall violence including firearms offenses are lowering all while "the strictest gun control in europe" is enacted. i know you're trying desperately to cleverly parrot me saying you have to show a link rather than a correlation, but that doesn't work very well when your entire point is that stricter gun control will lead to higher crime rates..[/QUOTE] Actually I'm saying that all his statistics show is that gun control has little to no effect on crime. Since my entire point is that gun control is pointless and futile beyond a point(licensing, background checks, training courses for concealed-carry, etc.) it works with me fine.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;37071942]Kopimi, you have to be one of the shittiest posters on here...[/QUOTE] hey thanks for the heads up dude really put me in my place with that one, maybe you should run back to fast threads and tell everyone how mean i am instead of posting lame personal insults in an unrelated thread [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=dogmachines;37071962]Actually I'm saying that all his statistics show is that gun control has little to no effect on crime. Since my entire point is that gun control is pointless and futile beyond a point(licensing, background checks, training courses for concealed-carry, etc.) it works with me fine.[/QUOTE] logically one would assume less killing machines = less killing, so unless you can prove otherwise..
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;37071942]Kopimi, you have to be one of the shittiest posters on here...[/QUOTE] if you aren't going to contribute, then please don't make shitty drive-by posts that more or less mean nothing and only make half-assed guesses about people
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;37071946]And that is relevant how, exactly?[/QUOTE] The country is a constitutional republic. Although states gun laws vary, there is still a big fuck off "right to bear arms" in the constitution.
I understand that correlation doesn't mean there is any actual relationship, but if you are going to argue that the relationship goes one way you can't just ignore it when data surfaces that shows it may be the opposite. You can't say that more guns=more crime and then act like there is no provable relationship between gun numbers and violent crime when somebody points out that areas of the US with stricter gun control laws have drastically higher crime rates. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Talkbox;37072037]The country is a constitutional republic. Although states gun laws vary, there is still a big fuck off "right to bear arms" in the constitution.[/QUOTE] Gun laws still vary drastically by state, and even city.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37071964]logically one would assume less killing machines = less killing, so unless you can prove otherwise..[/QUOTE] Passing laws against killing machines does not magically remove killing machines. Look at Mexico, look at much of Central and South America, look at Russia, the list goes on.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;37072077]Passing laws against killing machines does not magically remove killing machines. Look at Mexico, look at much of Central and South America, look at Russia, the list goes on.[/QUOTE] UK disagrees (see: this thread)
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37072109]UK disagrees (see: this thread)[/QUOTE] Most violent nation in the EU. Clearly. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] By the way, can you prove that UK gun control is the reason for the drop?
[QUOTE=Talkbox;37072037]The country is a constitutional republic. Although states gun laws vary, there is still a big fuck off "right to bear arms" in the constitution.[/QUOTE] States gun laws vary WILDLY. Some states manage to outright ignore the right to keep and bear arms, yet their security did not improve at all.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;37072134]States gun laws vary WILDLY. Some states manage to outright ignore the right to keep and bear arms, yet their security did not improve at all.[/QUOTE] See Chicago, DC, and LA for examples.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37072109]UK disagrees (see: this thread)[/QUOTE] It's funny, because the places I listed have extremely stricter gun laws compared to Britain, yet they're completely worse shitholes. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=dogmachines;37072145]See Chicago, DC, and LA for examples.[/QUOTE] I already listed them, yet the anti-gun crowd responded with their favorite tactic. [quote]LALALALALA I DID NOT HEAR THAT[/quote]
[QUOTE=DarkZero135;37056248][video=youtube;4g1n8cmwhIY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g1n8cmwhIY&feature=player_embedded[/video] [URL]http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/daniel-zimmerman/defensive-gun-use-of-the-day-just-lending-a-hand-edition/[/URL] [URL]http://www.ktxs.com/news/Three-people-killed-in-shooting-at-Early-RV-Park/-/14769632/15822008/-/gkxvrvz/-/index.html[/URL][/QUOTE] This happened 90 miles from my city! I saw it on the news myself
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;37072134]States gun laws vary WILDLY. Some states manage to outright ignore the right to keep and bear arms, yet their security did not improve at all.[/QUOTE] But the average Joe can still buy a gun in every state. In the UK, it is very hard to get a gun license, in comparison to the paperwork that you might need to get a gun in certain states of the US.
[QUOTE=Talkbox;37072327]But the average Joe can still buy a gun in every state.[/QUOTE] No.
Did you know the Germans have strict gun control and surprisingly they don't tend to have many homicides as many American states?
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;37072134]Some states manage to outright ignore the right to keep and bear arms, yet their security did not improve at all.[/QUOTE] Illinois is one of them. Chicago and Rockford are some of the most dangerous cities in the US, and Illinois has some of the most asinine restrictions on firearms. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;37072361]Did you know the Germans have strict gun control and surprisingly they don't tend to have many homicides as many American states?[/QUOTE] Yeah? And in Germany it's illegal to have a bull terrier as a pet. Your point?
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