• Brexit: Tabloids frothing at the mouth over High Court ruling
    111 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Evanstr;51312184]Yes I did but all I am saying is all parts of a government should let something that was democratically voted in through because it is the peoples choice. And thanks wiggles and others for pointing out a few things I did not know.[/QUOTE] What part of "non-binding" do you not understand? This was effectively an enlarged popularity poll to gauge the feelings of the British public, which were manipulated by these here lovely and informative tabloids, many if not most by owned by that rat Rupert Murdoch who would benefit a shit tonne from us leaving the EU. This [I]isn't[/I] how democracy works, at least not here. We're not Switzerland, and we will never carry the republican tradition they have to enact such a system of pure, direct democracy, mostly because it isn't the best system anyway. Much like how pure iron is inferior to steel, pure democracy without any middlemen in place to make sure we don't shove our nuts up our own arseholes would be disastrous in this country, mostly because of the tabloids issue. And it's not what the public "clearly" wanted. it came down to a 52/48 split. The country was effectively split in half
[QUOTE=Evanstr;51312184]Yes I did but all I am saying is all parts of a government should let something that was democratically voted in through because it is the peoples choice.[/QUOTE] They're not blocking it man, they're going to debate it, leaving the EU is going to be a complex process where we need to replace laws that don't apply to us any more with our own, replace EU subsidies and funding programs, new border control measures, it's not just opening a door and walking through. There's a lot of shit to work out about how to actually leave that May has given very very little detail on that has a lot of people like the agriculture industry very worried.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51312195]If somebody tells you to jump in a well with a lead weight tied to your feet because they voted that you're supposed to do so, would you do it if there was evidence that many of those who voted that you jump in the well were told you were human garbage who needed to drown, or were paid into voting your death? The analogy's not on the same scale as Brexit, but it has the same principle: people were coerced into voting for a side based off of misinformation.[/QUOTE] I still prefer my battery acid analogy. If 52% of the country voted to start drinking battery acid, then the government would be apocalyptically retarded if they actually enact that law. Direct democracies are awful in the 21st century, the Brexit vote is direct proof of that.
can the daily express be sued for attempting to incite a riot something about "rise up and fight" screams "go on the street and repeat the london riots but this time x300 worse"
It [b]should[/b] be for parliament to make the decisions, [b]on behalf those who elected them[/b]. However. If this is used as an excuse to ignore the [b]democratic expression of the people of the UK[/b], it must not be forgotten. Just a friendly reminder; the UK and every other one of our fellow European nations, with whom we have no beef whatsoever, needs to [i]also[/i] get out of the EU right now. The EU is not what people think it is, nor was it ever intended to be. [b]Don't allow it to continue.[/b]. Power corrupts. Absolute, centralized federal power corrupts absolutely. Let's do business together and visit each others' beautiful countries [b]without being ruled by the communist arm of the [i]special handshake brigade.[/i][/b]
The uk is such a mess [sp]almost as big of a mess as poland[/sp]
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;51312226]can the daily express be sued for attempting to incite a riot something about "rise up and fight" screams "go on the street and repeat the london riots but this time x300 worse"[/QUOTE]Dunno, they've gotten away with a lot of shit over the years.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312317]It [b]should[/b] be for parliament to make the decisions, [b]on behalf those who elected them[/b]. However. If this is used as an excuse to ignore the [b]democratic expression of the people of the UK[/b], it must not be forgotten. Just a friendly reminder; the UK and every other one of our fellow European nations, with whom we have no beef whatsoever, needs to [i]also[/i] get out of the EU right now. The EU is not what people think it is, nor was it ever intended to be. [b]Don't allow it to continue.[/b]. Power corrupts. Absolute, centralized federal power corrupts absolutely. Let's do business together and visit each others' beautiful countries [b]without being ruled by the communist arm of the [i]special handshake brigade.[/i][/b][/QUOTE] Ah fuck, I clicked the star after reading just the first line and I can't undo
[QUOTE=Evanstr;51312184]Yes I did but all I am saying is all parts of a government should let something that was democratically voted in through because it is the peoples choice. And thanks wiggles and others for pointing out a few things I did not know.[/QUOTE] If they want the referendum to be legally binding, then they should have changed the law in the first place. It seems to me that you're ignoring the purpose of a court system and just want everything to be decided by democracy. Do you even understand know what "democracy" means? You know that we are not living in ancient Athens?
[QUOTE=Evanstr;51312184]Yes I did but all I am saying is all parts of a government should let something that was democratically voted in through because it is the peoples choice. And thanks wiggles and others for pointing out a few things I did not know.[/QUOTE] "The people" aren't a little over half the country. "The people" are the supermajority, and not the majority. Also, "the people" just seems like a meme/buzzword spouted by the leave voters to make it sound better
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312317]It [b]should[/b] be for parliament to make the decisions, [b]on behalf those who elected them[/b]. However. If this is used as an excuse to ignore the [b]democratic expression of the people of the UK[/b], it must not be forgotten. Just a friendly reminder; the UK and every other one of our fellow European nations, with whom we have no beef whatsoever, needs to [i]also[/i] get out of the EU right now. The EU is not what people think it is, nor was it ever intended to be. [b]Don't allow it to continue.[/b]. Power corrupts. Absolute, centralized federal power corrupts absolutely. Let's do business together and visit each others' beautiful countries [b]without being ruled by the communist arm of the [i]special handshake brigade.[/i][/b][/QUOTE] Why do you people always post like you've written some kind of bizarre propaganda manifesto.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312317]It [b]should[/b] be for parliament to make the decisions, [b]on behalf those who elected them[/b]. However. If this is used as an excuse to ignore the [b]democratic expression of the people of the UK[/b], it must not be forgotten. Just a friendly reminder; the UK and every other one of our fellow European nations, with whom we have no beef whatsoever, needs to [i]also[/i] get out of the EU right now. The EU is not what people think it is, nor was it ever intended to be. [b]Don't allow it to continue.[/b]. Power corrupts. Absolute, centralized federal power corrupts absolutely. Let's do business together and visit each others' beautiful countries [b]without being ruled by the communist arm of the [i]special handshake brigade.[/i][/b][/QUOTE] lol wtf is that conspirationist bullshit?
[QUOTE=Nerts;51312351]Ah fuck, I clicked the star after reading just the first line and I can't undo[/QUOTE] Nerts confirmed conspiracy theorist. It cannot be undone, it is the will of the people.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312317]It [b]should[/b] be for parliament to make the decisions, [b]on behalf those who elected them[/b]. However. If this is used as an excuse to ignore the [b]democratic expression of the people of the UK[/b], it must not be forgotten. Just a friendly reminder; the UK and every other one of our fellow European nations, with whom we have no beef whatsoever, needs to [i]also[/i] get out of the EU right now. The EU is not what people think it is, nor was it ever intended to be. [b]Don't allow it to continue.[/b]. Power corrupts. Absolute, centralized federal power corrupts absolutely. Let's do business together and visit each others' beautiful countries [b]without being ruled by the communist arm of the [i]special handshake brigade.[/i][/b][/QUOTE] God damn it Ph:lxyz it's not the Special Handshake Brigade it's the Universal Eye-Glance Regiment. Fuck's sake get it right when you're explaining this to people.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312317]It [B]should[/B] be for parliament to make the decisions, [B]on behalf those who elected them[/B]. However. If this is used as an excuse to ignore the [B]democratic expression of the people of the UK[/B], it must not be forgotten. Just a friendly reminder; the UK and every other one of our fellow European nations, with whom we have no beef whatsoever, needs to [I]also[/I] get out of the EU right now. The EU is not what people think it is, nor was it ever intended to be. [B]Don't allow it to continue.[/B]. Power corrupts. Absolute, centralized federal power corrupts absolutely. Let's do business together and visit each others' beautiful countries [B]without being ruled by the communist arm of the [I]special handshake brigade.[/I][/B][/QUOTE] It [B]should[/B] be forgotten, and used as an example against direct democracy in the future. I say again, if [B]the democratic expression of the people of the UK[/B] says that [B]we must all drink battery acid[/B], then the parliament [B]should[/B] tell them to [B][I]fuck off[/I][/B] That's the reason we have representative democracy in the first place. People are stupid, they aren't able to keep up to date with the intricacies of international politics and world economics. [QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;51312483]better check yer windows, i think i can hear the stEUrmtrooper helicopters closing in[/QUOTE] soisoisoisoisoisoisoisoi
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312317]It [b]should[/b] be for parliament to make the decisions, [b]on behalf those who elected them[/b]. However. If this is used as an excuse to ignore the [b]democratic expression of the people of the UK[/b], it must not be forgotten. Just a friendly reminder; the UK and every other one of our fellow European nations, with whom we have no beef whatsoever, needs to [i]also[/i] get out of the EU right now. The EU is not what people think it is, nor was it ever intended to be. [b]Don't allow it to continue.[/b]. Power corrupts. Absolute, centralized federal power corrupts absolutely. Let's do business together and visit each others' beautiful countries [b]without being ruled by the communist arm of the [i]special handshake brigade.[/i][/b][/QUOTE] better check yer windows, i think i can hear the stEUrmtrooper helicopters closing in
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312317]It [b]should[/b] be for parliament to make the decisions, [b]on behalf those who elected them[/b]. However. If this is used as an excuse to ignore the [b]democratic expression of the people of the UK[/b], it must not be forgotten. Just a friendly reminder; the UK and every other one of our fellow European nations, with whom we have no beef whatsoever, needs to [i]also[/i] get out of the EU right now. The EU is not what people think it is, nor was it ever intended to be. [b]Don't allow it to continue.[/b]. Power corrupts. Absolute, centralized federal power corrupts absolutely. Let's do business together and visit each others' beautiful countries [b]without being ruled by the communist arm of the [i]special handshake brigade.[/i][/b][/QUOTE] :downs: I haven't read something so against a federal structure that doesnt make sense in a long time now. Like literally, what, in what way is the EU so absolutely corrupt that you say it has to fracture completely? Most British people dont know anything about other European countries, see many people from other European countries coming into Britain, on top of which they're fed a rich diet of lies and half truths about how the EU is corrupt, generally stemming from misinformation about payments not being properly documented, and so it's easy to assume "EU Corrupt Brexit Now" as a logical conclusion if you can't be bothered to do some critical thinking. Also nice one about absolute power corrupting absolutely, if you honestly think that you're going to be manipulated into doing stuff against your will if you happen to be part of a federation, or simply think that some decisions are unpalatable for you (for instance, immigration, which is a very thorny question), well tough shit, blind nationalism and banging on about our freedoms in a country that doesnt even run as a direct democracy isnt going to get you anywhere. Personally it's my belief that we should unite as one people under one nation but with the way society as well as individuals are at right now that's not going to be possible. I also believe that if the day comes when we can do so mankind as a whole can achieve so much more than it has.
[QUOTE=Dave_Parker;51312497]The EU in its current form is pretty awful though[/QUOTE] and I agree with this, but it's not nearly as bad as people seem to make it out to be imo. All systems are flawed to some degree or other, but they're what we have to work with. If it can be ironed out into a more acceptable format, with loopholes closed and certain other changes made to its working, I don't see why such a system shouldn't be acceptable in general. But going on and on about your freedoms as a reason why not to be part of that kind of entity smacks more to me about reactionary behavior and political blindness than it is about making a relatively informed decision. Like honestly, if you take tabloids as truth, it's a fact that you're either very naive or just plain dumb.
[QUOTE=Evanstr;51312131]A vote is a vote, Brexit won and the government should do what the majority of the citizens clearly wanted. I really dont understand how people can defend something which is un-democratic while just hiding behind a thin facade of excuses and reasons.[/QUOTE] Let me remind you of a quote by one of the most beloved democratic leaders of all time. [quote=Thomas Jefferson] Democracy is 51% of the people taking away the rights of the other 49%.[/quote] Sound familiar?
[img]http://i.redditmedia.com/rJP0k9d-FBU1KAhcm8f4FCQdSIkDb3hZedyxRBVc9GI.jpg?w=758&[/img]
[QUOTE=Thom12255;51312576][img]http://i.redditmedia.com/rJP0k9d-FBU1KAhcm8f4FCQdSIkDb3hZedyxRBVc9GI.jpg?w=758&[/img][/QUOTE]Image's borked m8.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;51312576][img]http://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Fbf1503ce-a2bf-11e6-aca7-d9d4fe48eef4.jpg?crop=2749,1833,570,186&resize=758[/img][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;51312226]can the daily express be sued for attempting to incite a riot something about "rise up and fight" screams "go on the street and repeat the london riots but this time x300 worse"[/QUOTE] In theory you could call that rabble rousing which is something you can be arrested an prosecuted for over here.
[QUOTE=Evanstr;51312131]A vote is a vote, Brexit won and the government should do what the majority of the citizens clearly wanted. I really dont understand how people can defend something which is un-democratic while just hiding behind a thin facade of excuses and reasons.[/QUOTE] presumably you were in favour of capital punishment a year or so ago then because the public support for it was in the majority also the public was probably in favour of executing the bankers responsible for the recession i wonder why these things weren't given to the public to decide
We as a planet need to decide whether we [b]really[/b] want a single, unaccontable (just look at the European Commission for an example of unaccountability) government of the world, or whether to keep our nation states as they are. Oh wait - we [i]can't[/i] keep nation states - because due to the nature of mergers, acquisitions and big money, governments will _ALWAYS_ coalesce. Why? Because that's human nature. You know what's also human nature? Systemic corruption. The EU doesn't have to be "corrupt" to be corruptable. Good luck migrating anywhere to flee bad policy decisions when nowhere else on the planet is not a part of the "global solution". That's why there shouldn't be an E.U. It's the thin end of the expanding western wedge of corporate unification at the expense of democratic process. Who the hell gets to decide "well these voters are stupid, we know what's best for them"? I'll tell you the answer: tyrants. Democracy is bad because 51% of people can vote to lynch the rest. Representation is WORSE because now it only takes 1% to lynch the rest. A single monolithic entity can't best represent the interest of its citizens. That's what this comes down to. Either a uni-polar, or a multi-polar world are possibilities. At the moment, regardless of what the citizens want, we are [b]going to have[/b] a unipolar world, because the people who pay everyone's salaries have [b]already decided[/b] that doing so is in their interest. Until people understand this, the remoaners are going to keep brandishing the "racist!" term around, parrotting the inept BBC's propagandist claptrap. If you want to know what the BBC's role is supposed to be, it's to educate, inform and entertain. Not to cover up huge scandals involving influetial individuals that procure young people for the purpose of having blackmail material over politicians so that they shut up and stay on course!
Oh Jesus he's still going. Dude. What does this have to do with anything.
[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;51312931]Oh Jesus he's still going. Dude. What does this have to do with anything.[/QUOTE] It has everything to do with it. I've made my point and I already know that due to the demographics of this site, the majority are going to be in "la la la I'm not listening" mode, so whatever. The centralization of governmental power is a very bad idea indeed and most people here don't seem to understand that.
You're spouting unsupported nonsense that doesn't relate to what anyone is saying. No one is listening because you sound like a madman on the street.
[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;51312945]You're spouting unsupported nonsense that doesn't relate to what anyone is saying. No one is listening because you sound like a madman on the street.[/QUOTE] Sadly, what I'm saying is too far detached from anyone's present understanding of human greed for power to appear to be relevant to their eyes. It doesn't make it incorrect, or "mad", however. You can have the thread back...
the EU keeps europe together by tying nations with political and economical ties the idea that corruption is human nature applies so much more when those countries that aren't bound by set rules that actually protect our liberty are free from it without the EU, western civilization wouldn't be as it is, it'd be more like Russia and who the fuck wants to be like Russia
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