• Brexit: Tabloids frothing at the mouth over High Court ruling
    111 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312317]It [b]should[/b] be for parliament to make the decisions, [b]on behalf those who elected them[/b]. However. If this is used as an excuse to ignore the [b]democratic expression of the people of the UK[/b], it must not be forgotten. Just a friendly reminder; the UK and every other one of our fellow European nations, with whom we have no beef whatsoever, needs to [i]also[/i] get out of the EU right now. The EU is not what people think it is, nor was it ever intended to be. [b]Don't allow it to continue.[/b]. Power corrupts. Absolute, centralized federal power corrupts absolutely. Let's do business together and visit each others' beautiful countries [b]without being ruled by the communist arm of the [i]special handshake brigade.[/i][/b][/QUOTE] yes we must be freed from the jewish shackles of george soros and jean-claude juncker, dictators of the international society
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51312960]the EU keeps europe together by tying nations with political and economical ties the idea that corruption is human nature applies so much more when those countries that aren't bound by set rules that actually protect our liberty are free from it without the EU, western civilization wouldn't be as it is, it'd be more like Russia and who the fuck wants to be like Russia[/QUOTE] It's easy to sit in Europe and to tell me how Russia is, but unless we go there, how can we compare it? We only really have our media's perspective when it comes to Russia. Perhaps someone from Russia would like to tell us how "bad" things are there? Let me tell you that the propaganda in the western media is at least on par with that in Russia, if not worse. Most people don't see it because it's so "normal". I'm not saying I can "see" the propaganda while others can't. I'm saying "don't assume things are good here and bad there" because we can't know.
I love the Daily Express, I work in a shop and you can always bet on what the headlines are every morning. Either Immigrants, get us out of the EU, Pensions, cure for Alzheimer's or the Royals. A paper for true simpletons.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312981]It's easy to sit in Europe and to tell me how Russia is, but unless we go there, how can we compare it? We only really have our media's perspective when it comes to Russia. Perhaps someone from Russia would like to tell us how "bad" things are there? Let me tell you that the propaganda in the western media is at least on par with that in Russia, if not worse. Most people don't see it because it's so "normal". I'm not saying I can "see" the propaganda while others can't. I'm saying "don't assume things are good here and bad there" because we can't know.[/QUOTE] what are you talking about, we do know
[QUOTE=Hamsteronfire;51312976]yes we must be freed from the jewish shackles of george soros and jean-claude juncker, dictators of the international society[/QUOTE] This BS about people in charge being "Jewish" is a distraction so that people can call other people "anti-semitic". In fact that's why a lot of powerful people hide behind their religion. They don't give a damn about religion. They only want power.
no one needs to go to north korea to know how bad it is there lol
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312988]This BS about people in charge being "Jewish" is a distraction so that people can call other people "anti-semitic". In fact that's why a lot of powerful people hide behind their religion. They don't give a damn about religion. They only want power.[/QUOTE] i think the kool-aid is getting to your head now, time to lay down
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312981]It's easy to sit in Europe and to tell me how Russia is, but unless we go there, how can we compare it? We only really have our media's perspective when it comes to Russia. Perhaps someone from Russia would like to tell us how "bad" things are there? Let me tell you that the propaganda in the western media is at least on par with that in Russia, if not worse. Most people don't see it because it's so "normal". I'm not saying I can "see" the propaganda while others can't. I'm saying "don't assume things are good here and bad there" because we can't know.[/QUOTE] Almost sounds like some Flat-Earther talk. "Have you actually seen the curve of the earth? I only see a flat horizon. We have all those government experts when it comes to a round earth. Perhaps somebody who is not a payed by the government should tell us how it really is." To stay on topic: Its simple, the referendum had no legal binding, its an opinion poll. A democracy that the UK is can not just circumvent the democratic parliament by some opinion poll. The vote didn't stop anything really, it just stopped the madness that this vote could have gone around the laws in place.
The tabloids are often bad but this is way beyond the pale and shouldn't be allowed
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312981]It's easy to sit in Europe and to tell me how Russia is, but unless we go there, how can we compare it? We only really have our media's perspective when it comes to Russia. Perhaps someone from Russia would like to tell us how "bad" things are there? Let me tell you that the propaganda in the western media is at least on par with that in Russia, if not worse. Most people don't see it because it's so "normal". I'm not saying I can "see" the propaganda while others can't. I'm saying "don't assume things are good here and bad there" because we can't know.[/QUOTE] I respect your passion, but if you want to change opinions of those around you, you also need to substantiate your claims. I've yet to see any of that.
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;51311970]Tabloids really ought to be banned, sometimes.[/QUOTE] Hey now, if anyone catches you saying that they'll flip their shit over you "not supporting free speech"
[QUOTE=Vlevs;51313027]I respect your passion, but if you want to change opinions of those around you, you also need to substantiate your claims. I've yet to see any of that.[/QUOTE] That's a fair point. I base my interpretation however, on years of reading information from multiple sources. I have no reason to believe that my own sources are of any lower quality than any others. The list of things I've read, much of which was also BS, is going to be too long to post or retrieve. It's not worth any of your time. I'm not going to waste time trying to prove to anyone that what I'm saying is true because all this information exists and is readily available [b]to everyone[/b]. They can decide for themselves which parts are likely true and which are not. I'm not trying to claim that I'm special, here. As a last point, just remember that things like the "Echelon" spy system doesn't exist, people that believe it does are obviously tinfoil-hat wearing kooks and governments never did spy on everyone's internet connections. Right?
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51312989]no one needs to go to north korea to know how bad it is there lol[/QUOTE] the public impression of north korea is at the very least outdated, if not outright influenced by propaganda most people seem to believe there's still widespread famine going on etc
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[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312981]It's easy to sit in Europe and to tell me how Russia is, but unless we go there, how can we compare it? We only really have our media's perspective when it comes to Russia. Perhaps someone from Russia would like to tell us how "bad" things are there?[/QUOTE] i have spoken to friends in ukraine and russia who told me in no uncertain terms that police bribery is a common and expected behaviour, the roads are literal dirt tracks outside of the cities, and that there are old women who believe crystals give them to power to cure diseases
[QUOTE=Evanstr;51312131]A vote is a vote, Brexit won and the government should do what the majority of the citizens clearly wanted. I really dont understand how people can defend something which is un-democratic while just hiding behind a thin facade of excuses and reasons.[/QUOTE] me too, i sure do love being slowly sunk into a pit of liquid fecal matter bubbling like nacho cheese by an [b]unelected[/b] prime minister with no real care for the actual wants or needs of the people and more care about what investment bank she's gonna work for when she inevitably 'gracefully' steps out of office in the wake of the carnage she'll unleash.
Okay dudes, I don't like Theresa May as PM either, but stop saying she's not elected. She was elected, like other MPs, and being part of the Conservative party, she was chosen as leader, and therefore being in the party that's in government, is the Prime Minister.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312988]This BS about people in charge being "Jewish" is a distraction so that people can call other people "anti-semitic". In fact that's why a lot of powerful people hide behind their religion. They don't give a damn about religion. They only want power.[/QUOTE] Is this David Duke's account?
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312922] Blah blah blah, undemocratic, blah blah blah, globalism, blah BBC propaganda.[/QUOTE] 1. We're nowhere near a unipolar world. There's so many different regional powers that this is just retarded. The closest we'll ever get to unipolarity was the Cold War bipolarity. US' current hegemony of the West is not enough to classify as unipolarity, nor is the EU anywhere close to establishing it. 2. The European Union was created by STATES, with STATE GOVERNMENTS appointing people to the commission and PEOPLE within STATES electing people to the european parliament. Nothing can happen in the EU that states can't immediately shut down if they really wish to, aside from the EU law (Made by elected MEPs, influenced by state appointed commissioners) being enforced because states and elected MEPs decided to allow them to do this. 3. Why are nation states somehow incorruptable bastions of good policy and democracy? How can I trust a parliament to make laws in my region? I didn't choose all of the MPs yet my local MP can easily be overidden by them. The only option is clearly to remove any and all forms of government since sometimes decisions have to be made for the greater good rather than in the favour of my particular patch of land that I for some reason attach sentimentality and my identity to.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2]Is this David Duke's account? [/QUOTE] Who? [QUOTE=Vengeful Falcon;51314242]1. We're nowhere near a unipolar world. There's so many different regional powers that this is just retarded. The closest we'll ever get to unipolarity was the Cold War bipolarity. [/QUOTE] Not much has changed. Western nations and the EU are subservient to the United States Shadow Government, which is run by a few powerful and well connected individuals whose interests do not represent those of the average US or Western citizen. The individuals in that group are driven by their economic ties to Saudi Arabian and Israeli citizens with deep pockets and religious expansion agendas. It doesn't matter whether Clinton or Trump get into power, the same few people have an [b]IRON SOLID[/b] grip over the media, religion, education and basically anything else that is generally "trusted" by the average joe. [QUOTE=Vengeful Falcon;51314242] US' current hegemony of the West is not enough to classify as unipolarity, nor is the EU anywhere close to establishing it. [/QUOTE] The EU is just part of it. It is in the interests of the United States that the EU exists since they have a single point of contact for the installation of missile defence shields across their "eastern-most" border with Russia. (Eastern Europe). Countries that don't go along with the Middle-Eastern-Backed US agenda by becoming victims of the conditionality of taking un-repayable development loans from the IMF and World Bank, are swiftly dealt with via military coercion. Those that aren't invadable or are otherwise problematic become branded the "axis of evil". [QUOTE=Vengeful Falcon;51314242] 2. The European Union was created by STATES, with STATE GOVERNMENTS appointing people to the commission and PEOPLE within STATES electing people to the european parliament. Nothing can happen in the EU that states can't immediately shut down if they really wish to, aside from the EU law (Made by elected MEPs, influenced by state appointed commissioners) being enforced because states and elected MEPs decided to allow them to do this. [/QUOTE] The EU is the "big dream" for those that want centralized decision making. The next step is a free trade area between the Americas and the EU, then further free trade areas, then political integration. The final step (could be decades away) is to bring the East into the fold. They quite clearly can't do that at the moment but I can assure you that this is very clearly the goal. The European Commission proposes new laws and continue to do so until the EU parliament approve them. The EU commission is the unelected elephant in the room. [QUOTE=Vengeful Falcon;51314242] 3. Why are nation states somehow incorruptable bastions of good policy and democracy? How can I trust a parliament to make laws in my region? I didn't choose all of the MPs yet my local MP can easily be overidden by them. The only option is clearly to remove any and all forms of government since sometimes decisions have to be made for the greater good rather than in the favour of my particular patch of land that I for some reason attach sentimentality and my identity to.[/QUOTE] You shouldn't put full trust in anyone in power. They are in power because they wanted to be in power, and of the few deemed acceptable by the state, the people choose from and squabble over the remaining junk available. While people are arguing over Trump and Hillary, they're not paying attention to things like the fact that their bank can loan money way in excess of deposits - whereas if they did that themselves, they would be arrested for counterfeiting. Power is dangerous in the hands of those that seek it. If the MP to be prime minister were randomly selected, things might be different (not necessarily better however). Nation states are not incorruptible bastions of good policy and democracy. Now imagine what happens when they all combine that crap into one big government. Bad idea. Whenever you hear things like "Global Problems need Global Solutions", you're listening to the people who created the problems, and who want to provide their own damn solutions via increasing unification of state power into federal bodies.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51312988]In fact that's why a lot of powerful people hide behind their religion. They don't give a damn about religion. They only want power.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51314742]The individuals in that group are driven by their economic ties to Saudi Arabian and Israeli citizens with deep pockets and religious expansion agendas.[/quote] First step on making a credible conspiracy theory - make it consistent. [QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51314742] The EU is the "big dream" for those that want centralized decision making. The next step is a free trade area between the Americas and the EU, then further free trade areas, then political integration. The final step (could be decades away) is to bring the East into the fold. They quite clearly can't do that at the moment but I can assure you that this is very clearly the goal.[/QUOTE] Second step - if you want to paint a credible threat, you have to outline why specifically this scenario is a likely one, as opposed to the eternal fruitless squabbling of powerful states that has happened all of history. Because the means you suggest just don't add up to make this likely, especially considering what has happened in near history.
[QUOTE=Vengeful Falcon;51314242] 3. Why are nation states somehow incorruptable bastions of good policy and democracy?[/QUOTE] Easy. Nationalism. People are inflating national identity over any other form of identity - especially class - and they're tying that national identity to race and ethnicity as justification for violence and discrimination against people who look different from what a British person [I]should[/I] look like. There's literally no reason for nations to be better than any other form of social organization. The only reason is that certain interest groups want to foster an imaginary national identity to detract from class identity that endangers their power. British nationalism masquerades as class identity, trying to topple the "elites" and take power back for the people, but it has nothing to do with class - the tabloids promoting this stuff are owned by unbelievably wealthy people, many of whom aren't even British. National identity can unify many different classes against a common "enemy," in this case a totally imaginary one, in order to distract from class inequality. Amazing how an Australian multi-millionaire media mogul and renowned international corporate figurehead has his tabloids in the UK promoting nationalist ideas. And people fall for it. Because it's an easy way to consolidate power across class lines without actually addressing economic issues - shifting the problem away to some imaginary threat that's inevitably going to ruin everything. In this case, the brown muslim terrorists using the EU to hop into the UK. And the poles stealing jobs. And the pakis and indians. And anyone who isn't British.
[QUOTE=Vlevs;51314857]First step on making a credible conspiracy theory - make it consistent.[/QUOTE] It is in the interests of religious royal families to use religion to extend and exert their influence. It's quite clear that they are simply using it as a vehicle for power. That's [b]using[/b] religion. It doesn't count as them giving an actual damn about its teachings one way or another beyond its use in warfare. This is oil - but the same goes for the banking fraternity and their strategic use of another religious group as a publicly legitimate cover for their individual activities so that they can't be called out. They carried out unspeakable crimes against groups of europeans from around Europe and gathered them around themselves in the middle east, now using their horrific story as a psychological shield - because if you dare denounce their work, you're "clearly racist against the whole group". [QUOTE=Vlevs;51314857] Second step - if you want to paint a credible threat, you have to outline why specifically this scenario is a likely one, as opposed to the eternal fruitless squabbling of powerful states that has happened all of history. Because the means you suggest just don't add up to make this likely, especially considering what has happened in near history.[/QUOTE] The reason it is a credible threat is because until now, nations have continued their processes of integration. It is human nature to want to consolidate. Imagine you own a large company. You always want to be one step ahead of your competition. By merging and acquiring competitors, you eliminate competition. By merging and acquiring politicians, you eliminate national competitiveness. It's the same thing. We don't have a monopolies commission to deal with international consolidation. The powerful right have an agenda and the powerful left also have an agenda. Some of the media is allied to the left, some to the right. Ultimately, they're all beholden to the banking and energy moguls. Politicians in important positions are entrapped with compromising video so that they can be told what to do so that the agenda of global integration continues. Anyway, as for Brexit. The sooner we get out of the EU, the better, and hopefully, people in other European countries will join us in leaving. But not for xenophobic or bigoted reasons, but out of the realization that you won't even be able to emmigrate yourself once everything is a single entity.
[QUOTE=Mesothere;51312062][media]https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/794310009010212866/photo/1[/media] This is basically trying to incite a pogrom[/QUOTE] Godwin I know, but this is some Nazi newspaper shit right here.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51313493]i have spoken to friends in ukraine and russia who told me in no uncertain terms that police bribery is a common and expected behaviour, the roads are literal dirt tracks outside of the cities, and that there are old women who believe crystals give them to power to cure diseases[/QUOTE] I have been to Russia and I can confirm that bribing the police is entirely commonplace. When I had to get my visa stamped the border guard said there was some unspecified problem with it and the fee would be 25 roubles or something like that. I had to threaten to go to the Embassy to get out of the country. I'm not going back to Russia any time soon (which is a shame because I really want to visit Kaliningrad)
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;51315950]I have been to Russia and I can confirm that bribing the police is entirely commonplace. When I had to get my visa stamped the border guard said there was some unspecified problem with it and the fee would be 25 roubles or something like that. I had to threaten to go to the Embassy to get out of the country. I'm not going back to Russia any time soon (which is a shame because I really want to visit Kaliningrad)[/QUOTE] 25 rubles really? You got bribed for 30 pence?
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51316840]25 rubles really? You got bribed for 30 pence?[/QUOTE] no no, I was the one doing the bribing. The guy behind the desk said my visa was expired or something to that effect [editline]6th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;51314052]Okay dudes, I don't like Theresa May as PM either, but stop saying she's not elected. She was elected, like other MPs, and being part of the Conservative party, she was chosen as leader, and therefore being in the party that's in government, is the Prime Minister.[/QUOTE] To be fair, people voted for the Conservative party on the assumption that David Cameron would be the prime minister. It's all technically above board, yeah, and the public choose the party rather than the PM, but it's a bit of a kick in the nuts if you voted for a cabinet you approved of and then got a different one.
The world right now seems to be largely in a schism. I know it's happening in the US and the UK at least. There are two camps at work. Those who want to keep the nations functioning, and those who want to act on batshit insane ideas fueled by short-sighted nationalism regardless of how hard it would actually fuck everyone including them. Even if it were an absolute betrayal of democracy, the first camp is in the right and will always be in the right. Sometimes people can be tremendously stupid.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;51316876]no no, I was the one doing the bribing. The guy behind the desk said my visa was expired or something to that effect [editline]6th November 2016[/editline] To be fair, people voted for the Conservative party on the assumption that David Cameron would be the prime minister. It's all technically above board, yeah, and the public choose the party rather than the PM, but it's a bit of a kick in the nuts if you voted for a cabinet you approved of and then got a different one.[/QUOTE] Oh even better, so you went "here, let's make this visa thing disappear" and gave the guy behind the desk literally less than half a UK Pound. That's a scene from a comedy show man, it has to be.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51317717]Oh even better, so you went "here, let's make this visa thing disappear" and gave the guy behind the desk literally less than half a UK Pound. That's a scene from a comedy show man, it has to be.[/QUOTE] Do you have problems with reading? The border control guy said he couldn't go through without paying a "fee", he was demanding a bribe, it was a low one so it was less trouble to pay it than it was to argue.
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