Former Marine Describes Violent Hazing and the Lies That Covered It Up
158 replies, posted
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191162]The extreme hazing is definitely not okay, but what about the other Marines in his unit? The ones that got the fuck over it and actually went to the fleet? The kid seems weak as fuck and couldn't hack the Marine Corps.[/QUOTE]
'What the fuck is wrong with these weaklings who got PTSD fighting in Iraq? Tons of their comrades didn't get it. Fucking weaklings'
people react differently to things differently throughout their life dude
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;51191193]'What the fuck is wrong with these weaklings who got PTSD fighting in Iraq? Tons of their comrades didn't get it. Fucking weaklings'
people react differently to things differently throughout their life dude[/QUOTE]
Oh don't put fucking words in my mouth about actual combat vets. Are you really trying to liken what I said about hazing in boot camp to no shit combat? Apples and oranges dude. Those who come back from that shit have 100x more reasons to be messed up than this kid.
[editline]12th October 2016[/editline]
imagine sending this dude into combat as a rifleman, just imagine.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191199]Oh don't put fucking words in my mouth about actual combat vets. Are you really trying to liken what I said about hazing in boot camp to no shit combat? Apples and oranges dude. Those who come back from that shit have 100x more reasons to be messed up than this kid.
[editline]12th October 2016[/editline]
imagine sending this dude into combat as a rifleman, just imagine.[/QUOTE]
PTSD and mental health issues aren't limited to veterans who experienced combat first hand. Violence and traumatic experiences can cause these issues. Dismissing the effect violence had on this guy undermines and delegitimises his troubles and, by extension, the issues experienced by all individuals with PTSD. Calling him weak falls under the same strain of thought that dismisses veterans who have PTSD as weaklings (though this is obviously and purposefully an extreme example)
[QUOTE=soulharvester;51191213][url]http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-its-like-at-sere-training-2014-12[/url][/QUOTE]
This is a little different. Special classes used to teach resisting interrogation and torture techniques where the recruit enters it understanding that they will be treated in that way is different from boot camp where they allegedly stuff Muslims into driers.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;51191216]PTSD and mental health issues aren't limited to veterans who experienced combat first hand. Violence and traumatic experiences can cause these issues. Dismissing the effect violence had on this guy undermines and delegitimises his troubles and, by extension, the issues experienced by all individuals with PTSD. Calling him weak falls under the same strain of thought that dismisses veterans who have PTSD as weaklings (though this is obviously and purposefully an extreme example)[/QUOTE]
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a combat veteran sympathizing with this guy.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191079]sick burn but get back to me when you know what I'm actually talking about.[/QUOTE]
you always pull the "I know what I'm talking about more then you" card in literally every topic thats been discussed.
Usually the people who spout that in every thread are the people who know the least.
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191221]I think you'd be hard pressed to find a combat veteran sympathizing with this guy.[/QUOTE]
i like how no where in his post does he insinuate that combat veterans should sympathize with him.
Perhaps you should read what people say
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191221]I think you'd be hard pressed to find a combat veteran sympathizing with this guy.[/QUOTE]
What's this got to do with the point I'm trying to make?
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;51191230]What's this got to do with the point I'm trying to make?[/QUOTE]
Oh no, remember, per Donald Trump if you have PTSD from the military you are weak.
just what makes members of the military so insufferable when they're on the internet?
[QUOTE=soulharvester;51191166]If you can't get through boot camp without breaking down then why would they want to risk putting you in actual combat? They intentionally treat you like shit to weed out people who can't handle fighting, they're not being mean just because they're awful people.
They're preparing you to go into a war in which other people's lives rely on your performance, the last thing they need is people breaking down in the middle of a firefight.[/QUOTE]
Everyone knows that real battles aren't waged with rifles and tanks. They're waged with washers and dryers.
So you need to be prepared to stumble into any of the numerous running clothes dryers that litter every battlefield.
[QUOTE=/dev/sda1;51191238]just what makes members of the military so insufferable when they're on the internet?[/QUOTE]
Usually they arent. The only ones that are bad are the blindly patriotic ones with a superiority complex.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;51191230]What's this got to do with the point I'm trying to make?[/QUOTE]
I think outside of this forum, with actual vets, you'd be alone in your insinuation that calling this dude a weak body is a slippery slope to dismissing combat related PTSD. Sure you can go and diagnose him with PTSD based off of the "traumatic fear for your life" experiences he claims to have endured (since that is a base requirement), but the point still stands, boot camp induced PTSD or not he wasn't fit to be a Marine.
[editline]12th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=/dev/sda1;51191238]just what makes members of the military so insufferable when they're on the internet?[/QUOTE]
your post history leaves a lot to be desired too, friend.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191251]
your post history leaves a lot to be desired too, friend.[/QUOTE]
Whats with the passive aggression? Your post history aint too good either, nor does it bare any relevance.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191251]I think outside of this forum, with actual vets, you'd be alone in your insinuation that calling this dude a weak body is a slippery slope to dismissing combat related PTSD. Sure you can go and diagnose him with PTSD based off of the "traumatic fear for your life" experiences he claims to have endured (since that is a base requirement), but the point still stands, boot camp induced PTSD or not he wasn't fit to be a Marine.[/QUOTE]
And does any of this mean that the depression he experienced after seeing, hearing, and experiencing extremely violent hazing practices is not valid, or that those hazing practices are okay?
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51191263]It's just InvaderNouga, everyone who disagrees with him is a dumb civilian or a [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1523112&p=50537129&viewfull=1#post50537129]disgrace to the uniform[/url].[/QUOTE]
Still standing by it (not the dumb civilian comment though.)
[editline]12th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;51191266]And does any of this mean that the depression he experienced after seeing, hearing, and experiencing extremely violent hazing practices is not valid, or that those hazing practices are okay?[/QUOTE]
like I said before, some examples of hazing in the article are not okay. I totally understand his reasoning for being depressed and sure, if it fucked him up that bad he should get some help for it. Someone with that mental fortitude probably shouldn't be a Marine though.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51191269]like I said before, some examples of hazing in the article are not okay. I totally understand his reasoning for being depressed and sure, if it fucked him up that bad he should get some help for it. Someone with that mental fortitude probably shouldn't be a Marine though.[/QUOTE]
considering we know very little about what actually happened him not having the ahhh "mental fortitude" may or may not be true.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51191223]you always pull the "I know what I'm talking about more then you" card in literally every topic thats been discussed.
Usually the people who spout that in every thread are the people who know the least.
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
i like how no where in his post does he insinuate that combat veterans should sympathize with him.
Perhaps you should read what people say[/QUOTE]
Considering that InvaderNouga is, in fact, serving in the military as a Sailor (I know because I met him while stationed in Okinawa), I'd say he knows more about some of the misconceptions that the general public may hold in regards to the military. Additionally, military life is a totally different culture, for better or worse, that can only be truly understood from within.
If someone receives PTSD from the rigors of boot camp then they are not fit for a branch that is expected to face intense combat. That's just a reality, and there's no shame in not being able to make it. Disillusionment, as is the case here, is different because the values Marine Drill Instructors instill in their recruits are seen as hypocritical because of the Drill Instructors that go too far and abuse their position by means that threaten the safety and well-being of the recruit beyond that of the training environment.
The problem occurs when people claim hazing by embellishing details or telling people that don't exactly understand the necessity for recruits to endure stress (within reason, of course).
Bottom line, it sounds like he had some shitty Drill Instructors and he lost faith in being a Marine. If your heart isn't in it, you're not going to make it.
What a fuck
I got kicked in the head, punched in the gut, forced to drink water until I threw up my lunch, sweared at, embarrassed, and whatever else have you. And you know what? That's what I wanted, that's what I expected.
You join the Marines with the expectation that youre able to kill people, and you have to deal with all the shit that entails. If you can't handle a punch to the gut you sure as shit won't handle combat, and you don't need to be in the Corps. This isn't call of duty.
[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;51191283]Considering that InvaderNouga is, in fact, serving in the military as a Sailor (I know because I met him while stationed in Okinawa), I'd say he knows more about some of the misconceptions that the general public may hold in regards to the military. Additionally, military life is a totally different culture, for better or worse, that can only be truly understood from within.
.[/QUOTE]
He does it in topics completely unrelated or only marginally related to military matters. But thats irrelevant to this thread. The fact of the matter is that we only have whats in the article to go by, theres likely not enough information to make a clear judgement on the matter.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51191296]What a fuck
I got kicked in the head, punched in the gut, forced to drink water until I threw up my lunch, sweared at, embarrassed, and whatever else have you. And you know what? That's what I wanted, that's what I expected.
You join the Marines with the expectation that youre able to kill people, and you have to deal with all the shit that entails. If you can't handle a punch to the gut you sure as shit won't handle combat, and you don't need to be in the Corps. This isn't call of duty.[/QUOTE]
Dude I know, I got my ass kicked in field med during our bullshit little 3 day field ops and got my shield hammered into my collar bone at graduation but I went there with that expectation. I just always remembered that people's lives might depend on me one day to sack up and endure the bullshit and pain.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51191300]He does it in topics completely or only marginally related to military matters. But thats irrelevant to this thread. The fact of the matter is that we only have whats in the article to go by, theres likely not enough information to make a clear judgement on the matter.[/QUOTE]
I can make a plenty clear judgement on the matter. I can tell you exactly what it was and what his train of though was. I saw it, and I lived it. I watched a kid stab himself a dozen times in the chest with some grooming scissors because he didn't want to be there anymore. Kids go in thinking it's gonna be call of duty and when they find out that being awake fot 36 hours and hiking 15 miles with 120lbs sucks they say fuck it and try to get out. He didn't even make it through MCT, which physically speaking is even harder than boot camp but in the grand scheme of things is a cake walk. He wimped out and when they kicked him out rather then place the blame on his own failures he pointed it at his leadership.
Feel kinda bad for this kid. He had to go through bootcamp getting trained by some of the shittiest Marines the Marine Corps has to offer, and yet everyday when you're there you get drilled into your head all the values Marines are suppose to have, stuff like honor, courage, and commitment, and even more stuff like leadership traits and hell just being a better citizen in general, something these DIs certainly didn't have from the looks of it. That's something that would definitely make you question what the fuck you're even doing there in the first place or if this was even something you wanted to do at all.
I never went to Parris Island but I went through San Diego. The DIs there would get their asses lit the fuck up if they ever layed their hands on a single recruit.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51191316]I can make a plenty clear judgement on the matter. I can tell you exactly what it was and what his train of though was. I saw it, and I lived it. I watched a kid stab himself a dozen times in the chest with some grooming scissors because he didn't want to be there anymore. Kids go in thinking it's gonna be call of duty and when they find out that being awake fot 36 hours and hiking 15 miles with 120lbs sucks they say fuck it and try to get out. He didn't even make it through MCT, which physically speaking is even harder than boot camp but in the grand scheme of things is a cake walk. He wimped out and when they kicked him out rather then place the blame on his own failures he pointed it at his leadership.[/QUOTE]
i want you to understand you're defending shit like
[quote]One drill instructor tumbled a Muslim recruit in a hot clothes dryer[/quote]
which can fucking kill you pretty damned easily by the way. Yeah you're gonna get roughed up in boot camp, that's common knowledge to everyone with an iota of common sense. But when they're doing shit that has a high possibility of being lethal its pretty indefensible. The government apparently agrees with that sentiment considering they're going to be charging people.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51191316]I can make a plenty clear judgement on the matter. I can tell you exactly what it was and what his train of though was. I saw it, and I lived it. I watched a kid stab himself a dozen times in the chest with some grooming scissors because he didn't want to be there anymore. Kids go in thinking it's gonna be call of duty and when they find out that being awake fot 36 hours and hiking 15 miles with 120lbs sucks they say fuck it and try to get out. He didn't even make it through MCT, which physically speaking is even harder than boot camp but in the grand scheme of things is a cake walk. He wimped out and when they kicked him out rather then place the blame on his own failures he pointed it at his leadership.[/QUOTE]
So you have evidence to suggest that the three people who lost their jobs lost them unjustly and that the possible criminal charges are based on lies?
I suggest you take it to the relevant authorities so that nobody else unjustly gets in trouble for one pussy's failure.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51191332]i want you to understand you're defending shit like
which can fucking kill you pretty damned easily by the way. Yeah you're gonna get roughed up in boot camp, that's common knowledge to everyone with an iota of common sense. But when they're doing shit that has a high possibility of being lethal its pretty indefensible. The government apparently agrees with that sentiment considering they're going to be charging people.[/QUOTE]
I'm defending most of it. There's a point where blatant risk of serious injury is an issue, such as tumble drying a recruit. But chugging water until you puke? Taking a kick to your Kevlar? Getting made fun of for your race or religion?
Throughout of bootcamp I got fucked with all the time because I looked like I was stoned. I got to be "towlie the pot smoking towel" the whole time and had to say "wanna get high" on command. When the DI's found out I was an Atheist I got ripped into and forced to go to church on two occasions. I didn't give a fuck, be cause it's all mind games. All of it. Thats the real test. The physical part of boot is easy, it's the mind games that either break you or give you the mindset you need to be a Marine.
[editline]12th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51191338]So you have evidence to suggest that the three people who lost their jobs lost them unjustly and that the possible criminal charges are based on lies?
I suggest you take it to the relevant authorities so that nobody else unjustly gets in trouble for one pussy's failure.[/QUOTE]
They lost them to save face. Commands will protect their people to the best of their ability but when someone above them wants blood they'll throw you right under the bus to save themselves, reguardless if it's right or wrong.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51191347]I'm defending most of it. There's a point where blatant risk of serious injury is an issue, such as tumble drying a recruit. But chugging water until you puke? Taking a kick to your Kevlar? Getting made fun of for your race or religion?
Throughout of bootcamp I got fucked with all the time because I looked like I was stoned. I got to be "towlie the pot smoking towel" the whole time and had to say "wanna get high" on command. When the DI's found out I was an Atheist I got ripped into and forced to go to church on two occasions. I didn't give a fuck, be cause it's all mind games. All of it. Thats the real test. The physical part of boot is easy, it's the mind games that either break you or give you the mindset you need to be a Marine.[/QUOTE]
Thats a fair view of the situation. The main problem is that from the looks of it instructors are going much too far in what they do and its leading to serious mental health issues or grievous bodily injury.
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51191347]
They lost them to save face. Commands will protect their people to the best of their ability but when someone above them wants blood they'll throw you right under the bus to save themselves, reguardless if it's right or wrong.[/QUOTE]
To be fair we don't exactly know if the charges are justified or not as we don't know what the actual charges are. Nor do we know the veracity of the charges.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51191347]They lost them to save face. Commands will protect their people to the best of their ability but when someone above them wants blood they'll throw you right under the bus to save themselves, reguardless if it's right or wrong.[/QUOTE]
And the possible criminal charges? These innocent men and women who clearly did nothing wrong for allegedly stuffing people into driers could go to jail for no good reason! You already illustrated that you know exactly what is going on; you have the chance to stop these criminal charges from being filed in the first place thanks to your intimate knowledge of military procedure and culture. Whatever happened to no man left behind? You have a duty to save your fellow servicemen from sitting in front of an unjust judge or an unjust jury who will decide whether or not stuffing people into driers is ethical.
All the justice system is trying to do is save face; you gotta stop that from happening and get real justice for these brave innocent warriors.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51191358]Thats a fair view of the situation. The main problem is that from the looks of it instructors are going much too far in what they do and its leading to serious mental health issues or grievous bodily injury.[/QUOTE]
I'm against the grievous bodily injury, but the mental health stuff id the reason why they do it. If the shit they do makes you crack in bootcamp, literally the easiest thing you'll do your entire career, do you really think they'd be fit for real combat? If you can't handle words or minor physical altercations what makes you think you wont outright crack when the bullets are whizzing over youre head and your buddy just turned into pink mist?
That's the point, weed out the weak to leave the strong. If you can't hack it get out because the last thing we need is a bunch of walking liabilities ready to call it quits when someone raises their voice to them and completely locks up the first time they hear a gunshot in country.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51191358]Thats a fair view of the situation. The main problem is that from the looks of it instructors are going much too far in what they do and its leading to serious mental health issues or grievous bodily injury.[/QUOTE]
dude theyre just pussies
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