[BREAKING] Its happening. Grand jury has made a decision about Ferguson.
2,211 replies, posted
[QUOTE=kurgan;46573398][I]what exactly are they protesting?[/I]
[B]none of the initial accusations of racism in the police force have come out as true[/B], and even granting the premise that racism is a super super bad thing, how exactly do you get so many people out on the streets like this?
protests tend to be about specific, concrete things or people, even if they're connected with an over-arching socioeconomic phenomenon. the russians disliked czarism for ages but the protests were concretely for peace and bread.
you can't protest an -ism alone, it needs a catalyst, and without the catalyst (in this case the lack of any wrongdoing by the police), one can only conclude that the motives are suspect[/QUOTE]
I SERIOUSLY hope you mean just this case and this case only when saying "none of the initial accusations of racism in the police force have come out as true"
[QUOTE=kurgan;46573340]what's your standard for "relatively few"? hundreds of people have been arrested and probably several times that have gotten away.
[editline]25th November 2014[/editline]
yeah i changed my mind, fucking amazing right[/QUOTE]
Eighty people have been arrested, not hundreds. And being arrested does not mean that they were participating in the rioting, only that they were present. However, for the same of meeting you on your own dishonest terms, even assuming that hundreds were actively rioting, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands across the world, have peacefully participated in these protests in some form.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46573411]Eighty people have been arrested, not hundreds. And being arrested does not mean that they were participating in the rioting, only that they were present. However, for the same of meeting you on your own dishonest terms, even assuming that hundreds were actively rioting, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands across the world, have peacefully participated in these protests in some form.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ferguson_unrest[/url]
[quote]Arrests: 205[8][9][/quote]
and okay great, you've got peaceful protests (which if you want to inflate the numbers you can count as any bystanders who were not looting and destroying things - who's gonna know otherwise?) against a police force that ... hasn't done anything wrong.
wouldn't the protestors look less like they're enabling destruction (and thus win sympathy) if they protested against the [I]looters and arsonists instead[/I], since those are the ones doing actual real-life damage to people.
[QUOTE=dbk21894;46572814]the evidence backs up Officer Wilson
conjecture and opinion are not evidence and people who don't know better should shut up
the family can always file an appeal
until then this case is closed everyone go home and stop rioting[/QUOTE]
Grand jury decisions cannot be appealed, but they are also non-binding. A prosecutor can choose to ignore the ruling and proceed with the case, but it will require a preliminary hearing with an actual trial judge, which would practically be a repeat of the grand jury deliberations.
Grand juries only exist to bypass the formalities and costs of a trial judge reviewing the evidence to determine if the case should proceed. They do not involve any judges and usually do not even have lawyers (except for the prosecutor). Essentially, they are a test-run to see if the case has any merit; if it does, it continues, but if it doesn't, it is either dropped (thereby eliminating the expense of a full trial) or the prosecutor chooses to override the decision and continue (extremely rare and will probably not happen here). I believe either a grand jury decision or a preliminary hearing is required for a judge to accept a case to go to trial.
The family can't appeal because there is nothing to appeal; there is no case. Appealing that decision would just make a trial judge review the same evidence and make the same decision.
So while the case is not officially closed, the chances of it proceeding to trial are negligible, unless the prosecutor gets a gun pointed at his head.
All ive seen that says it was racially motivated is saying because institutionalized racisism. I dont see how its instatutionalized when theres statistical proof that theres much more black on black crime to begin with in these downtrodden areas. The problem is black culture as a whole with plenty of black individuals who agree the cycle will always continue till the culture changes. Right now 70%~ of black children are born out of wedlock with 67% of children are in single parent homes. Without a stable family these kids look for inspirations that they get from the crime and drug culture thats rampant in these neighborhoods. No one wants to talk about this in the black community and people who do are immediately shunned for doing so.
I dont see what this one incident has to do with race anyway, beyond the fact that the two parties involved were of different race
if these guys are saying that [I]obviously[/I] the white cop was racially motivated, does that make them... racist?
[QUOTE=codemaster85;46573454]All ive seen that says it was racially motivated is saying because institutionalized racisism. I dont see how its instatutionalized when theres statistical proof that theres much more black on black crime to begin with in these downtrodden areas. The problem is black culture as a whole with plenty of black individuals who agree the cycle will always continue till the culture changes. Right now 70%~ of black children are born out of wedlock with 67% of children are in single parent homes. Without a stable family these kids look for inspirations that they get from the crime and drug culture thats rampant in these neighborhoods. No one wants to talk about this in the black community and people who do are immediately shunned for doing so.[/QUOTE]
this is an appealing explanation but twin studies consistently show that things like divorce have very little independent effect on life outcomes
the bulk of the correlation between e.g. fatherless homes and bad life outcomes is explained by common genetic factors
that said, returning to the state of black family life around the early to mid 20th century wouldn't exactly be a bad thing. this level of instability is historically unprecedented.
[QUOTE=kurgan;46573428][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ferguson_unrest[/url][/QUOTE]
Check your sources lol. The statistics were from august and october if you're arguing about last night.
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-arrests/[/url]
For these statistics, Most of the arrests involve "refusal to disperse" (124 / 155)
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-arrests/[/url]
For these statistics, ~50 were arrested and they were all charged with refusal to dispense. 500 people protested on that day
[QUOTE=kurgan;46573398][I]what exactly are they protesting?[/I]
none of the initial accusations of racism in the police force have come out as true, and [B]even granting the premise that racism is a super super bad thing[/B], how exactly do you get so many people out on the streets like this?
protests tend to be about specific, concrete things or people, even if they're connected with an over-arching socioeconomic phenomenon. the russians disliked czarism for ages but the protests were concretely for peace and bread.
you can't protest an -ism alone, it needs a catalyst, and without the catalyst (in this case the lack of any wrongdoing by the police), one can only conclude that the motives are suspect[/QUOTE]
Are you proposing that racism somehow isn't a super bad thing?
And no, I don't believe in any sense that this particular catalyst having been judged to not have been an act of racism by the police department in any way whatsoever proves that institutionalized racism is not a serious and common theme. It is precisely because it happens so frequently that unrest of this magnitude occurs when the conditions are right.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46573507]Check your sources lol. The statistics were from august and october if you're arguing about last night.
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-arrests/[/url]
For these statistics, Most of the arrests involve "refusal to disperse" (124 / 155)
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-arrests/[/url]
For these statistics, ~50 / 500 people were arrested and they were all charged with refusal to dispense.[/QUOTE]
? i never said anything about it only being last night
[QUOTE=kurgan;46573524]? i never said anything about it only being last night[/QUOTE]
sorry it's just really difficult trying to figure out your motives and gather the facts at the same time
My point stands, the majority of these protests were peaceful. An arrest doesn't mean they were burning down an orphanage
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46573509]Are you proposing that racism somehow isn't a super bad thing?[/quote]
yes that is precisely what I am claiming, in the sense that racism has little independent power to explain the poor lot of blacks in the USA
[quote]And no, I don't believe in any sense that this particular catalyst having been judged to not have been an act of racism by the police department in any way whatsoever proves that institutionalized racism is not a serious and common theme. It is precisely because it happens so frequently that unrest of this magnitude occurs when the conditions are right.[/QUOTE]
how many false accusations of "institutional racism" would it take to change your mind? we've had two major ones in as many years.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Utterly racist." - Seiteki))[/highlight]
i remember there was a custom title script floating around does anyone have it so i can mark kurgan as a racist for future reference lol
[QUOTE=kurgan;46573553]yes that is precisely what I am claiming, in the sense that racism has little independent power to explain the poor lot of blacks in the USA
[/quote]
Ok could you please elaborate on this. Tell me what "explains the poor lot of blacks in the USA"
[quote]how many false accusations of "institutional racism" would it take to change your mind? we've had two major ones in as many years.[/QUOTE]
how many true accusations of ACTUAL FUCKING RACISM in the ferguson county (and counties around the USA) to change your mind
I heard that buildings were getting torched and shit... is that happening?
[QUOTE=kurgan;46573553]yes that is precisely what I am claiming, in the sense that racism has little independent power to explain the poor lot of blacks in the USA
how many false accusations of "institutional racism" would it take to change your mind? we've had two major ones in as many years.[/QUOTE]
It explains nearly everything, and how it does this has been explained to you many times already, more than a couple of which have been from me. The problem is that you continuously reject any explanation or evidence that does not support your hateful and misguided belief systems. The context of the history of racism in this country, and the ongoing racial tensions that we see today (which are being upheld by people such as yourself) completely set the stage for the America that we see today. Any group of people that had been placed in those conditions would see similar issues.
[QUOTE=Bradyns;46573585]I heard that buildings were getting torched and shit... is that happening?[/QUOTE]
yes at least a dozen
Can someone explain to me what "hands up, don't shoot" is?
[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;46573623]Can someone explain to me what "hands up, don't shoot" is?[/QUOTE]
It is something they yell when they don't want to be shot because they are likely in the middle of the street. It usually works for the most part.
[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;46573623]Can someone explain to me what "hands up, don't shoot" is?[/QUOTE]
It's a protest chant (which amazed me on how clever it is) about how innocents are subject to police shootings where people argue that it could've been prevented.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46573620]It explains nearly everything, and how it does this has been explained to you many times already, more than a couple of which have been from me. The problem is that you continuously reject any explanation or evidence that does not support your hateful and misguided belief systems. The context of the history of racism in this country, and the ongoing racial tensions that we see today (which are being upheld by people such as yourself) completely set the stage for the America that we see today. [B]Any group of people that had been placed in those conditions would see similar issues.[/B][/QUOTE]
like the jews?
how does your theory explain why descendents of french-canadians in the USA consistently underperform on most socioeconomic indicators despite a complete lack of any recognition of discrimination against them, real or otherwise?
I must say, 2014 is an interesting year.
[QUOTE=kurgan;46573701]like the jews?
how does your theory explain why descendents of french-canadians in the USA consistently underperform on most socioeconomic indicators despite a complete lack of any recognition of discrimination against them, real or otherwise?[/QUOTE]
Jewish people do not face anywhere near the same kind of conditions in this country that blacks do. Not now, nor ever. Even when prejudice against them was fashionable, which it hasn't been for a long time. As for French Canadians, I cannot comment, because I am not familiar. What are you trying to prove with this? What, exactly, is the point that you want people to walk away with?
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;46572145]168 reading this thread right now. They aren't bored they're just waiting to see if tonight is going to be entertaining as well.
Why don't all 167 of you read my threads on the Chinese economy? Or Vietnamese witch doctors?
I bet it's because you all have no class. Dumb me if you have no class.[/QUOTE]
Fedora tipping is off the charts
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;46573739]I must say, 2014 is an interesting year.[/QUOTE]
Will racial tension cause more problems? Will ISIS get what's coming to them? Will Barack finally tell Putin about his feelings? Who is Crimea's Father? For the answers to these questions and more, join us next time in "2015"!
Tonight ABC Exclusive: Officer Wilson gets interviewed.
[QUOTE=Kegan;46568513]the worst part is most of these people rioting aren't pissed off about anything in particular.
They just want to break/steal shit.[/QUOTE]
please refrain from making blanket statements
the situation is complex involving multiple parties, as is all situations
the tendency to generalize only makes things worse
[editline]25th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=kurgan;46573701]like the jews?
how does your theory explain why descendents of french-canadians in the USA consistently underperform on most socioeconomic indicators despite a complete lack of any recognition of discrimination against them, real or otherwise?[/QUOTE]
great here we go again with your racial biology theory
we already know what you're going to say the issue is, so just save yourself the effort
[QUOTE=joes33431;46573831]please refrain from making blanket statements
the situation is complex involving multiple parties, as is all situations
the tendency to generalize only makes things worse[/QUOTE]
You are always a voice of reason. I appreciate that. I get frustrated when reason seems to be in low supply, as it so often is when it comes to racial issues.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46573791]Jewish people do not face anywhere near the same kind of conditions in this country that blacks do. Not now, nor ever. [/quote]
The KKK was as big on anti-semitism as they were in hating blacks.
[quote]Even when prejudice against them was fashionable, which it hasn't been for a long time.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/050306FRUSCCRRCAS.pdf[/url]
MO Governor just finished his press conference.
In short, law enforcement is putting their foot down tonight. Much more national guard and officers will be in the city.
He would not detail operational details. Some reporter asked a dumbass question about whether the guardsmen were MPs or not.
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