• [BREAKING] Its happening. Grand jury has made a decision about Ferguson.
    2,211 replies, posted
Ferguson Sister riot popping up on Facepunch, more at 6
[QUOTE=Deng;46574490]What the fuck? You could just condense this whole post down into a single sentence along the lines of "I'm not going to debate with you, I'm just going to psychoanalyse you". Come on, this is childish. What makes it worse is that you accuse him of abusing his charisma to get a point across, when you are doing the exact same thing here with your flowery prose.[/QUOTE] I suppose I could write more but to not be childish I'll just write it in one sentence- you are literally defending a racist, you are an enabler and sympathiser of racism.
[QUOTE=kurgan;46574612]that's kind of demeaning to blacks - 150 years of slavery and they're incapable of moving past it? don't they have some kind of agency, some kind of inner drive to create new things and define themselves beyond what their former masters thought of them? I certainly think so. [/QUOTE] I'm going to be realtalk here. You're simplifying things. It's like you're baking a cake and refusing to add ingredients because they taste like shit "raw eggs gross, im not putting it in there! why would you eat this much flour? the final product is gross obviously this recipe is trash!" You need to think of them all put together, like I brought up before. Slavery obviously gave them no money to start with until it because abolished completely in the states. Then racial discrimination came along and fucked up the opportunities that they deserved. It's not just about slavery, it's also about discrimination that has happened since then.
[QUOTE=mikeyt493;46574653]I suppose I could write more but to not be childish I'll just write it in one sentence- you are literally defending a racist, you are an enabler and sympathiser of racism.[/QUOTE] I don't care much for Kurgans views but to say I am an enabler and sympathiser of racism is disgusting, I have no more time for this thread.
[QUOTE=kurgan;46574612]that's kind of demeaning to blacks - 150 years of slavery and they're incapable of moving past it? don't they have some kind of agency, some kind of inner drive to create new things and define themselves beyond what their former masters thought of them? I certainly think so. this is not true, IQ is one of the most robust and well-researched things to come out of the social sciences. it crops up in everything from studies of childhood nutrition interventions, drug safety trials, longitudinal twin studies, military aptitude exams, comparative economics, mental health, and so on.[/QUOTE] Again, IQ has nothing to do with -individual intelligence-. It's like BMI - it's very good at measuring population changes, but as a measure of individual intelligence it means almost nothing, especially as taking different IQ tests can give varying results. [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iq-scores-not-accurate-marker-of-intelligence-study-shows/[/url] [url]http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-confirms-iq-tests-do-not-accurately-predict-intelligence-243971[/url] This has been a thing for a long time now. IQ is absolutely pointless when measuring an individual - it doesn't matter if you have a "higher IQ" than somebody else, because they could easily still be more intelligent than you. There's a very good reason that IQ tests have been phased out entirely in elementary schools and the like - they're inaccurate and they cause stereotype threat. If you're measuring a population, yes, they're more than accurate enough. As for agency and inner drive, yes. That's where jazz, rock, rap, and more than half of the US's artistic innovation has come from. Most have moved past it, but you're ignoring the point - being oppressed as a population for that long has residual effects that have far-reaching implications beyond what "get over it" can overcome. Social discrimination is still very much a thing and still holds black individuals away from success - your posts are indicative of that unjust social bias.
i wonder if my opinion lines up with this thread, i haven't followed the last 30 or so pages so i'm not sure basically what i think is that the officer was entirely in the right in shooting michael brown because he posed a threat to the officer and officers are trained to respond with deadly force in situations that are potentially life endangering. his life probably wasn't in much real danger, but at the time he had no idea, and not long to think about it before making a decision either. that, of course, is based off of the evidence presented. could it have been race based? well it very damn well could have, and if it was i hope that that the officer eventually gets what he deserves. but the fact is, the evidence against this being a race based crime is pretty convincing, and in the united states people are innocent until proven guilty. that said, race disparity and inequality in america is still a huge issue. to say "hey dude the civil war is over man racism is done, get over it" is probably one of the most ignorant things a person can say. it is also incredibly ignorant to say "well they're only poor and in these destitute crime-ridden communities because they're lazy/don't care/aren't smart etc." what is boils down to is that, after centuries of persecution, and after finally attaining the rights they deserved, african-americans have been presented with little opportunity for education or success. there were no reparations to these people following their persecution. to the contrary, their rights were still subdued (even by law) until the 1960s, and still are, though to a much lesser degree. because of this, you have african-americans who are born in poor communities, raise kids in poor communities, and die in poor communities, with virtually no opportunity for escape. then their kids are born in poor communities, and themselves raise kids in poor communities, ad infinitum, all because of centuries of persecution [I]caused by white people[/I]. the saddest part about this is that people take a case like this ferguson case, with no proven correlation to any race-based condemnation or racism whatsoever, and use it to plead their cause against the prevalence of racism in america. it causes them to lose a whole lot of credibility, especially when they are violent and destructive in the process. furthermore, by doing this in light of the verdict of the case, they are protesting something which has absolutely zero chance of changing. the officer will not be put in jail, there will be no retrial. i'd say their efforts would be much better directed toward bringing attention to the plight of certain races in america, and the lack of opportunity thereof. but even then, without uniform direction, even that is useless. ultimately what americans really need to do is get their voices heard about exactly how big of a problem race inequality is in america, and then vote for candidates who will DO SOMETHING to change that. and, you know, when republicans win BIG in midterm elections, and they are precisely the people who will do [I]nothing[/I] about these problems, it really makes me wonder whether people even know what they are fighting for or voting for at all. and perhaps that is a bigger problem than race inequality in america, because that pretty much guarantees a nonfunctional democracy and almost no progress at all.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46574670]I'm going to be realtalk here. You're simplifying things. It's like you're baking a cake and refusing to add ingredients because they taste like shit "raw eggs gross, im not putting it in there! why would you eat this much flour? the final product is gross obviously this recipe is trash!" You need to think of them all put together, like I brought up before. Slavery obviously gave them no money to start with until it because abolished completely in the states. Then racial discrimination came along and fucked up the opportunities that they deserved. It's not just about slavery, it's also about discrimination that has happened since then.[/QUOTE] But we're still at this impasse where you haven't really responded to my objection about discrimination being neither necessary nor sufficient to produce the crap situation of blacks in the USA. I gave two counterexamples, your response to them was confused, dismissive, and insulting. Let me be even clearer: no matter how much Jews suffered relative to Blacks, under your paradigm you would not expect them to [I]actually surpass non-Jewish whites.[/I] You would expect them to achieve parity with whites over time, with the differences between them decaying exponentially by each generation. But that isn't what happened - they shot straight past the dominant non-Jewish white majority and have stayed at the peak of average achievement ever since, dominating everything from boards of directors to Nobel Prizes. Your hypothesis about discrimination cannot explain that.
The president prefaced his immigration speech in Chicago with words on Ferguson. - Damaging of property is a criminal offense and people who do this should be prosecuted (riots) - Media is not reporting the peaceful protests - It is not his job to comment on current cases or on-going investigations - The problem is not a Ferguson problem, but an American problem. - "I've never seem an immigration or healthcare bill get passed by burning cars" This comes on the heels of the governors conference earlier where he said that law enforcement is putting their foot down
Those riots are so idiotic. Whoever partakes in them are as stupid and of violent nature as they are trying to not seem.
[QUOTE=kurgan;46574638]i've responded politely to people that engaged me in proper arguments, roflburger instead made a series of frankly confusing comments about wanting me to lick his anus, I don't see why I should respond seriously to him.[/QUOTE] And I don't see why I should bother responding seriously to someone who's made a series of frankly confusing comments about believing blacks are inferior and discrimination don't real. He's raised fine points - ignore the dumb shit and address the actual stuff rather than ignoring everything he's saying. Who cares if he says some unusual shit or makes some jokes? That doesn't give you the right to disregard everything else he says.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;46574703]Again, IQ has nothing to do with -individual intelligence-. It's like BMI - it's very good at measuring population changes, but as a measure of individual intelligence it means almost nothing, especially as taking different IQ tests can give varying results. [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iq-scores-not-accurate-marker-of-intelligence-study-shows/[/url] [url]http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-confirms-iq-tests-do-not-accurately-predict-intelligence-243971[/url][/quote] All that study showed was that there were factors other than [I]g[/I]. This is literally nothing new, and is sensationalist garbage. Nobody ever claimed that [I]g[/I] was the only factor, just that it was the biggest. The factors they identified are still fucking correlated with each other, and they have the gall to claim that they are "independent". This is abuse of a precise mathematical term - variables that are correlated are not "independent" by definition. Besides, this has absolutely no relevance to the B/W gap. I'd love to get paid for destroying strawmen like these guys. [quote]This has been a thing for a long time now. IQ is absolutely pointless when measuring an individual - it doesn't matter if you have a "higher IQ" than somebody else, because they could easily still be more intelligent than you.[/quote] This is true but vacuous, IQ is still an excellent predictor on an individual level. Of course there will be exceptions - it's a noisy measurement but still generally valid. There's a very good reason that IQ tests have been phased out entirely in elementary schools and the like - they're inaccurate and they cause stereotype threat. If you're measuring a population, yes, they're more than accurate enough.[/quote] Hey maybe this is news to you, but the SAT is basically an IQ test in disguise.
[QUOTE=kurgan;46574793]All that study showed was that there were factors other than [I]g[/I]. This is literally nothing new, and is sensationalist garbage. Nobody ever claimed that [I]g[/I] was the only factor, just that it was the biggest. This is true but vacuous, IQ is still an excellent predictor on an individual level. Of course there will be exceptions - it's a noisy measurement but still generally valid. There's a very good reason that IQ tests have been phased out entirely in elementary schools and the like - they're inaccurate and they cause stereotype threat. If you're measuring a population, yes, they're more than accurate enough.[/quote] Hey maybe this is news to you, but the SAT is basically an IQ test in disguise.[/QUOTE] Whoa, you mean that writing an essay, solving advanced math, and answering english-language grammar questions is a measure of intelligence quotient? No wonder people who receive a worse education do poorly on IQ tests. I wonder how a Malaysian student would do, especially when they don't speak English.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;46574816]Hey maybe this is news to you, but the SAT is basically an IQ test in disguise.[/QUOTE] Whoa, you mean that writing an essay, solving advanced math, and answering english-language grammar questions is a measure of intelligence quotient? No wonder people who receive a worse education do poorly on IQ tests. I wonder how a Malaysian student would do, especially when they don't speak English.[/QUOTE] did you miss my post talking about this exact problem and how it's overcome or ...? the SAT is normed against the english-speaking US population, it has less validity for students who speak other languages, because it isn't designed for that. [I]the topic at hand is about US blacks vs US whites, in that case the SAT is a valid IQ test.[/I] there is no contradiction.
[QUOTE=kurgan;46574612]that's kind of demeaning to blacks - 150 years of slavery and they're incapable of moving past it? don't they have some kind of agency, some kind of inner drive to create new things and define themselves beyond what their former masters thought of them? I certainly think so. this is not true, IQ is one of the most robust and well-researched things to come out of the social sciences. it crops up in everything from studies of childhood nutrition interventions, drug safety trials, longitudinal twin studies, military aptitude exams, comparative economics, mental health, and so on.[/QUOTE] IQ is base score for intelligence and even though it is well researched it' still deeply flawed. For instance someone could have a high iq but could still be lacking in one or more areas and still have a high IQ.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;46575028]IQ is base score for intelligence and even though it is well researched it' still deeply flawed. For instance someone could have a high iq but could still be lacking in one or more areas and still have a high IQ.[/QUOTE] Of course, nobody ever denied that. The point is that those cases are interesting precisely because they're exceptions to the rule.
[QUOTE=kurgan;46575254]Of course, nobody ever denied that. The point is that those cases are interesting precisely because they're exceptions to the rule.[/QUOTE] IQ tests are also lacking in that they don't track the testee's emotional intelligence.
[QUOTE=Levithan;46575558]IQ tests are also lacking in that they don't track the testee's emotional intelligence.[/QUOTE] IQ explains a large fraction of the variance in so-called Emotional Intelligence (and practically any nontrivial cognitive test ever devised).
[QUOTE=kurgan;46574612] this is not true, IQ is one of the most robust and well-researched things to come out of the social sciences[/QUOTE] omg lol
Is Ferguson prepping for round two?
[QUOTE=Blanketspace;46575918]Is Ferguson prepping for round two?[/QUOTE] Yes. 2200(+) National Guard members, Hundreds more law enforcement officers
[QUOTE=Blanketspace;46575918]Is Ferguson prepping for round two?[/QUOTE] It's already happening. In NY too; [url]http://new.livestream.com/accounts/124908/events/3616405/player_pop_out[/url]
That video of the guy alone blocking the police trucks went viral. People are calling him tank man. I watched it happen live on msnbc.
What's it going to take to stop all these black people living up to their stereotypes? :v:
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;46575999]It's already happening. In NY too; [url]http://new.livestream.com/accounts/124908/events/3616405/player_pop_out[/url][/QUOTE] I hate websites like this. Just darken and throw a pop up in the middle that you can't close unless you register
[QUOTE=Brandy92;46576020]What's it going to take to stop all these black people living up to their stereotypes? :v:[/QUOTE] not generalizing about the entire black race based on some people in missouri is a good start
[QUOTE=TheTalon;46576055]I hate websites like this. Just darken and throw a pop up in the middle that you can't close unless you register[/QUOTE] That explains why half the streams I click on don't work. Using adblock so I can't see the popup. The screen's just grey.
Does anyone know what they're chanting in NY? Something NYPD, KKK... ?
Why riot over this, when we can talk about actual issues such as corruption in video gaming journalism? [url]http://gamergate.me/[/url] Read here to get started. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shit post." - Seiteki))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Wootman;46576358]Why riot over this, when we can talk about actual issues such as corruption in video gaming journalism? [url]http://gamergate.me/[/url] Read here to get started.[/QUOTE] I think everyone would agree that racial disparity is a bigger issue than "corruption in video gaming journalism"
[QUOTE=Wootman;46576358]Why riot over this, when we can talk about actual issues such as corruption in video gaming journalism? [URL]http://gamergate.me/[/URL] Read here to get started.[/QUOTE] Dude, really? I'm pro-Gamergate, and even I believe discussions on racial tensions, police-citizen relations, and rioting trump GG any day. If you want to discuss GG, go to the [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1421478"]General Discussion sub-forum.[/URL]
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