[BREAKING] Its happening. Grand jury has made a decision about Ferguson.
2,211 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kommodore;46577573]yeah i'm going to go drive into a crowd now and i'll be sure to mention that i failed to foresee the need to run over another 30 people just to get away
also a post doesn't need a glossary of terms to make it's essential point[/QUOTE]
"You posted too many words so I'm just going to make a totally unsubstantiated sarcastic statement and completely discredit & ignore everything you said. Look at me, I'm the winner of the argument!"
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46577581]"You posted too many words so I'm just going to make a totally unsubstantiated sarcastic statement and completely discredit & ignore everything you said. Look at me, I'm the winner of the argument!"[/QUOTE]
no, your post was bunch of verbose decorated poop and some people just aren't amused by it
[QUOTE=Kommodore;46577585]no, your post was bunch of verbose decorated poop and some people just aren't amused by it[/QUOTE]
You guys really need to stop weighing on your emotions and try using your brains.
Just wrote to the editor of a my local paper about my previous post. Had to write to someone, somewhere in the media about those business owners.
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577577]I don't understand how you are having this much trouble understanding a situation? here in the real world people don't sit on the fence like children and go "your both at fault it doesn't matter" no, at the end of the day it started when the driver decided he was above everyone else to go around which puts the driver at fault. "BUT I WAS FORCED TO INJURE MORE PEOPLE AFTER EVERYONE ATTACKED ME FOR CRUSHING A WOMANS LEGS" sorry but that doesn't hold up in court.
Also there is no point repeating mindless sentences that literally say nothing if your mind can't actually comprehend more then "they are both at fault" cause btw no one is saying u think he is right, everyone is saying your retarded for even trying to shift blame on the crowd.[/QUOTE]
Yes, here in the real world, people [b]do[/b] sit on the fence and go "you're both at fault", but they do not say "it doesn't matter". You're reading into my posts too much. It does matter. Both were at fault. Both were idiots. But to say that the protesters were not also at fault for aggravating the situation is [b]false[/b]. Their actions directly led to the unintended consequence of those serious injuries.
What are you even trying to argue here? You're falling victim to the proximate cause fallacy. There is not always "one true cause". Had the guy not woken up in the morning, he wouldn't have run these people over. Had the alarm clock not gone off, he wouldn't have woken up. Had the manufacturer not been negligent, the alarm could would have gone off. Had the management focused on product quality, they would not have been negligent. Had the CEO not had a bad day, he would have focused their efforts better. Where does it end?
[QUOTE=Apache249;46577588]You guys really need to stop weighing on your emotions and try using your brains.[/QUOTE]
there's a fair difference between being level-headed and reasonable about an argument and using excessively fluffy sentences coated in needless prose
[QUOTE=wauterboi;46577558]There's a difference between discussion and bickering.[/QUOTE]
If your arguing with sheltered kids who can't understand why running over people or driving into a crowd is bad then who cares lol
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46577581]"You posted too many words so I'm just going to make a totally unsubstantiated sarcastic statement and completely discredit & ignore everything you said. Look at me, I'm the winner of the argument!"[/QUOTE]
"you posted a logical reason why the driver shouldn't have injured people in the first place, but ill just repeat mindless posts about how they are both at fault and people shouldnt have attacked him for crushing a womans legs like it somehow adds to the discussion."
[QUOTE=Apache249;46577588]You guys really need to stop weighing on your emotions and try using your brains.[/QUOTE]
lmfaoooooo we are trying to explain with full logic and reasoning why the driver is an idiot and you people are crying that he was left with no choice because he got scared when people got mad at him for destroying someones legs....but kk another great post!
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577577]I don't understand how you are having this much trouble understanding a situation? here in the real world people don't sit on the fence like children and go "your both at fault it doesn't matter" no, at the end of the day it started when the driver decided he was above everyone else to go around which puts the driver at fault. "BUT I WAS FORCED TO INJURE MORE PEOPLE AFTER EVERYONE ATTACKED ME FOR CRUSHING A WOMANS LEGS" sorry but that doesn't hold up in court.
Also there is no point repeating mindless sentences that literally say nothing if your mind can't actually comprehend more then "they are both at fault" cause btw no one is saying u think he is right, everyone is saying your retarded for even trying to shift blame on the crowd.[/QUOTE]
Dear lord. The more you are condescending and sarcastic towards others, the more you're going to alienate them and put them on the defense. As a master of the real world, I would expect you would know that. You're not winning this argument by being a colossal dick.
As much as you try to come off as superior with the "real world" comments and telling off people to "go outside", I sincerely believe you should blow off some steam off the internet for a bit and come back when you can discuss like a civil person.
Also, what is with this nonsense:
[quote]people don't sit on the fence like children[/quote]
Being quick to shove all the blame onto one person and ignore the faults of the others is not only childish, but regressive as well. Society should always be analyzing the faults of everyone so we can improve, and in this situation both parties were acting ridiculous. He shouldn't have driven through the crowd, and the crowd shouldn't have just stood there.
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577604]"you posted a logical reason why the driver shouldn't have injured people in the first place,[/QUOTE]
That is true. I agree with you. The driver should not have entered the crowd whatsoever.
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577604]but ill just repeat mindless posts about how they are both at fault[/QUOTE]
Because nobody has actually refuted my argument, and instead completely misinterpret the scenario, as you are about to do.
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577604]and people shouldnt have attacked him for crushing a womans legs like it somehow adds to the discussion."[/QUOTE]
I repeat myself because you don't actually read what I post. [b]The eyewitness video does not show the whole story.[/b] They attacked him [b]before[/b] he caused any serious injuries (including the "crushed legs" that you are so irrationally excited for).
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577604]If your arguing with sheltered kids who can't understand why running over people or driving into a crowd is bad then who cares lol[/QUOTE]
If that's sincerely what you believe, then stop. There isn't a point of arguing.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46577597]Yes, here in the real world, people [b]do[/b] sit on the fence and go "you're both at fault", but they do not say "it doesn't matter". You're reading into my posts too much. It does matter. Both were at fault. Both were idiots. But to say that the protesters were not also at fault for aggravating the situation is [b]false[/b]. Their actions directly led to the unintended consequence of those serious injuries.
What are you even trying to argue here? You're falling victim to the proximate cause fallacy. There is not always "one true cause". Had the guy not woken up in the morning, he wouldn't have run these people over. Had the alarm clock not gone off, he wouldn't have woken up. Had the manufacturer not been negligent, the alarm could would have gone off. Had the management focused on product quality, they would not have been negligent. Had the CEO not had a bad day, he would have focused their efforts better. Where does it end?[/QUOTE]
Nope sorry, in the real world people determine who was at cause and thats that, if someone yells at someone and the guy stabs him for getting yelled at does the court go, "oh sorry murder is wrong but both are at fault cause the guy shouldn't have yelled at him and that would of prevented him in being stabbed in the first place" ??? no in the real world they say "your an idiot if you think the proper response to being yelled at is stabbing the man"
Now welcome to the real world where we condemn the action of morons and not sit on the fence and place blame on both, now should of the protesters moved out of the way? sure...should the car still have tried to gone through if they were not going to budge? nope...was their an alternate route? yea....did he now seriously injure someone because of his actions? yea....is saying you are scared of getting attacked from a situation you put yourself into a valid reason to keep running people over? not at all buddy sorry.
So those are the facts...if you think sitting and shouting equal blame is not retarded then idk what to tell you buddy.
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577625]Nope sorry, in the real world people determine who was at cause and thats that, if someone yells at someone and the guy stabs him for getting yelled at does the court go, "oh sorry murder is wrong but both are at fault cause the guy shouldn't have yelled at him and that would of prevented him in being stabbed in the first place" ??? no in the real world they say "your an idiot if you think the proper response to being yelled at is stabbing the man"
Now welcome to the real world where we condemn the action of morons and not sit on the fence and place blame on both, now should of the protesters moved out of the way? sure...should the car still have tried to gone through if they were not going to budge? nope...was their an alternate route? yea....did he now seriously injure someone because of his actions? yea....is saying you are scared of getting attacked from a situation you put yourself into a valid reason to keep running people over? not at all buddy sorry.
So those are the facts...if you think sitting and shouting equal blame is not retarded then idk what to tell you buddy.[/QUOTE]
"The world is black and white. There are no grey areas. There are no blurred lines. You're all sheltered kids."
[editline]26th November 2014[/editline]
"I don't care how the justice system really works. The details don't matter."
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577625]Nope sorry, in the real world people determine who was at cause and thats that, if someone yells at someone and the guy stabs him for getting yelled at does the court go, "oh sorry murder is wrong but both are at fault cause the guy shouldn't have yelled at him and that would of prevented him in being stabbed in the first place" ??? no in the real world they say "your an idiot if you think the proper response to being yelled at is stabbing the man"
Now welcome to the real world where we condemn the action of morons and not sit on the fence and place blame on both, now should of the protesters moved out of the way? sure...should the car still have tried to gone through if they were not going to budge? nope...was their an alternate route? yea....did he now seriously injure someone because of his actions? yea....is saying you are scared of getting attacked from a situation you put yourself into a valid reason to keep running people over? not at all buddy sorry.
So those are the facts...if you think sitting and shouting equal blame is not retarded then idk what to tell you buddy.[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone is shouting but you.
If a majority thinks a certain way, it doesn't make them right - especially when it comes to morality. It's merely a popular opinion, and popular opinions can totally be wrong.
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577625]Nope sorry, in the real world people determine who was at cause and thats that, if someone yells at someone and the guy stabs him for getting yelled at does the court go, "oh sorry murder is wrong but both are at fault cause the guy shouldn't have yelled at him and that would of prevented him in being stabbed in the first place" ??? no in the real world they say "your an idiot if you think the proper response to being yelled at is stabbing the man"[/QUOTE]
I sincerely hope my friend in law school gets on his knees every day and thanks his deity of choice that you will never be a coworker of his, in this life or any other.
[QUOTE]In criminal law, provocation may be either or both a statutory or common law possible defense or an offense. Provocation may be a defense by excuse or exculpation alleging a sudden or temporary loss of control (a permanent loss of control is in the realm of insanity) as a response to another's provocative conduct sufficient to justify an acquittal, a mitigated sentence or a conviction for a lesser charge. Provocation can be a relevant factor in a court's assessment of a defendant's mens rea, intention, or state of mind, at the time of an act of which the defendant is accused.[/QUOTE]
If someone runs up at you and starts screaming at you ([b]provoking[/b] you), while you are still liable for your actions, there is a very real legal concept where they are also responsible for putting you in the mental state to assault them, even though they never touched you.
This has little to do with the scenario though, because unlike in your hypothetical example, these protesters are committing a crime by smashing his windows and impeding his vision. They are actively threatening him with physical violence; one could even try to argue that he would be off the hook, as trying to escape would qualify as self defense. I wouldn't go that far, personally, but you need to keep that in mind here. (I was personally taught California law, where "assault" technically means "battery without personal contact", so it is possible to argue that these people were assaulting him - but I'm not really interested enough to look this up in Missouri's codes.)
The irony of the situation is that provocation is closely related to use of force, which started this whole mess in the first place. If you seriously cannot understand that, and instead resort to continuously being an uneducated moron by spouting off complete lies and misinterpreting both the scenario and my arguments, then I'm going to bed.
[QUOTE=Apache249;46577634]"The world is black and white. There are no grey areas. There are no blurred lines. You're all sheltered kids."[/QUOTE]
Lmfao when did I say the world is black and white? I have only said that it's dumb to put equal blame when the driver is the one who caused the whole situation in the first place sorry bud.
Btw at least Snowmew is actually posting something while you just reply in quote and mindless statements, actually try unless your just going for some sweet epic zingers! lol
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577650]Lmfao when did I say the world is black and white? I have only said that it's dumb to put equal blame when the driver is the one who caused the whole situation in the first place sorry bud.
Btw at least Snowmew is actually posting something while you just reply in quote and mindless statements, actually try unless your just going for some sweet epic zingers! lol[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to bother writing detailed, eloquent responses to your garbage.
[editline]26th November 2014[/editline]
You're not going to read it and give any actual thought on it because you're incapable of seeing things from other perspectives.
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577650]Lmfao when did I say the world is black and white? I have only said that it's dumb to put equal blame when the driver is the one who caused the whole situation in the first place sorry bud.
Btw at least Snowmew is actually posting something while you just reply in quote and mindless statements, actually try unless your just going for some sweet epic zingers! lol[/QUOTE]
What I'm trying to say is you're a walking zinger for everyone around you.
[QUOTE=Apache249;46577634]"I don't care how the justice system really works. The details don't matter."[/QUOTE]
Oh shit another epic zinger oh how will I recover!
[QUOTE=wauterboi;46577640]I don't think anyone is shouting but you.
If a majority thinks a certain way, it doesn't make them right - especially when it comes to morality. It's merely a popular opinion, and popular opinions can totally be wrong.[/QUOTE]
idk am I supposed to respond to this? I never said anyone was shouting?? that was part of a scenario at least read my post???
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46577645]I sincerely hope my friend in law school gets on his knees every day and thanks his deity of choice that you will never be a coworker of his, in this life or any other.
If someone runs up at you and starts screaming at you ([b]provoking[/b] you), while you are still liable for your actions, there is a very real legal concept where they are also responsible for putting you in the mental state to assault them, even though they never touched you.
If you seriously cannot understand that, and instead resort to continuously being an uneducated moron by spouting off complete lies and misinterpreting both the scenario and my arguments, then I'm going to bed.[/QUOTE]
GREAT! we might be on the same page soon! I have never said the crowd wasn't at fault but to try and shift EQUAL blame is ridiculously stupid. Do you not understand we are not coming into the thread calling you idiots because you think the crowd is at fault to, no the fact is after the video popped up everyone started placing blame on the crowd instead of going
"hey those people should of moved but they didnt and so that driver was an idiot if he thought hurting people was an appropriate response!" see thats a normal reaction that wouldn't have started any of this mess. The fact of the matter is you guys are making the blame equal instead of understanding how much in the wrong the driver is, like riuet is with secretly hoping the driver crushed more people. Shit we might be getting somewhere now with this!
I think your texts are very quickly disintegrating into incomprehensible gibberish.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;46577685]I think your texts are very quickly disintegrating into incomprehensible gibberish.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, added a comma thanks man!
[QUOTE=Apache249;46577653]I'm not going to bother writing detailed, eloquent responses to your garbage.
[editline]26th November 2014[/editline]
You're not going to read it and give any actual thought on it because you're incapable of seeing things from other perspectives.[/QUOTE]
So if your whole point being here is to rack up zingers then idk find a hobby?
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577677]GREAT! we might be on the same page soon! I have never said the crowd wasn't at fault but to try and shift EQUAL blame is ridiculously stupid. Do you not understand we are not coming into the thread calling you idiots because you think the crowd is at fault to, no the fact is after the video popped up everyone started placing blame on the crowd instead of going
"hey those people should of moved but they didnt and so that driver was an idiot if he thought hurting people was an appropriate response!" see thats a normal reaction that wouldn't have started any of this mess. The fact of the matter is you guys are making the blame equal instead of understanding how much in the wrong the driver is like riuet is with secretly hoping the driver crushed more people. Shit we might be getting somewhere now with this![/QUOTE]
Nope, you completely failed to understand anything that I said, and completely misinterpreted my point. Your vague attempt at diluting your own argument doesn't hide the fact that you still fail to recognize the protesters' involvement in placing the driver in an unavoidably bad position (voluntarily, and against common sense), requiring him to either be subject to mob justice or to blindly accelerate (not having any view in front of him) to try to escape and possibly save his life.
Good night.
i like how when someone runs over some of these protestors it's fair enough because of fear & emotional strain, someone rushing a cop who shot them? criminal thug animal. people protesting over decades of discrimination? idiotic morons destroying their own town. emotional reactions to traumatic situations are only alright when they aren't done by black people, ok!
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46577694]the protesters' involvement in placing the driver in an unavoidably bad position, requiring him to either be subject to mob justice or to blindly accelerate (not having any view in front of him) to try to escape and possibly save his life.
Good night.[/QUOTE]
Awww man I thought you were beginning to understand, see those things wouldn't be choices or issues if the driver just decided like the other cars that came before him to drive around. Did the breaks stop working so he couldn't stop and go around? was someone in the back seat with a gun to his head telling him to keep going? nope, he made the fully conscious decision to drive through a crowd of protesters when it WASNT necessary given there was a way around like the other cars were doing. Good night though maybe you will understand.
i also like how there is all these different things the protestors could have done to show their dissatisfaction with the state of affairs in america/saint louis/ferguson, but when the alternatives to the thigns someone who ran over a womans leg could have done are shown it's like, nah man hell no it's fight or flight instincts literally would not allow it they were scared what would you do if a bunch of people were crowded around your car angrily??? i wonder what any of you would do if you, your family & your friends had been fucked over purely on the basis of your skin colour since fuck knows when. probably drive a car into the police line right?
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577714]Awww man I thought you were beginning to understand, see those things wouldn't be choices or issues if the driver just decided like the other cars that came before him to drive around. Did the breaks stop working so he couldn't stop and go around? was someone in the back seat with a gun to his head telling him to keep going? nope, he made the fully conscious decision to drive through a crowd of protesters when it WASNT necessary given there was a way around like the other cars were doing. Good night though maybe you will understand.[/QUOTE]
It's funny how when I'm about to leave, you fall back on the same old tired argument that he could have gone around, conveniently sidestepping and oversimplifying this whole dilemma while thinking that I won't have the motivation to prove you wrong for the third (fourth?) time.
Well, you were right on that front, at least.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46577694]Nope, you completely failed to understand anything that I said, and completely misinterpreted my point. Your vague attempt at diluting your own argument doesn't hide the fact that you still fail to recognize the protesters' involvement in placing the driver in an unavoidably bad position (voluntarily, and against common sense), requiring him to either be subject to mob justice or to blindly accelerate (not having any view in front of him) to try to escape and possibly save his life.
Good night.[/QUOTE]
everyone in this thread has failed again and again to recognize the justice systems involvement in placing the population of ferguson in an unavoidably bad position, requiring them to either be subject to injustice or to blindly protest (i don't actually think the protest is blind though)
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;46577693]So if your whole point being here is to rack up zingers then idk find a hobby?[/QUOTE]
The problem has nothing to do with the fact that people are getting zingers, but the fact that you have no concept of how to argue correctly (specifically respectfully, or intellectually). If you were able to calm down and stop acting so high and mighty, I'd have no problem engaging with you, but I'm almost certain that you have to be trolling or absolutely insane.
With someone who is as concerned with the real world and popular opinion, I have to question why you would be so concerned with engaging with us "children" and speaking painfully loudly through literary schizophrenia. You specifically stated there was no point in trying to convince anyone in here of anything, so why bother? And if the zingers don't bother you, then why talk about it?
This is exactly why you are so easy to poke fun at: you are a collective of zealous beliefs, bad writing, and contradictions.
[editline]26th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;46577717][B]i also like how there is all these different things the protestors could have done to show their dissatisfaction with the state of affairs in america/saint louis/ferguson, but when the alternatives to the thigns someone who ran over a womans leg could have done are shown it's like, nah man hell no it's fight or flight instincts literally would not allow it they were scared what would you do if a bunch of people were crowded around your car angrily??[/B]? i wonder what any of you would do if you, your family & your friends had been fucked over purely on the basis of your skin colour since fuck knows when. probably drive a car into the police line right?[/QUOTE]
Why is this one sentence? I seriously have no idea what you're trying to say because you're not even trying to put in the minuscule effort to punctuate. If you want your opinion to be heard at least try.
I'm not even trying to say that as a flame but as someone who genuinely can't understand what you're writing.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;46577722]everyone in this thread has failed again and again to recognize the justice systems involvement in placing the population of ferguson in an unavoidably bad position, requiring them to either be subject to injustice or to blindly protest (i don't actually think the protest is blind though)[/QUOTE]
I think you're the blind one. Let's go through this step by step here:
Cop: stopped Brown on rightful suspicion of a crime. This is justifiable.
Car: decided to push through the crowd instead of go around it. This is [b]not[/b] justifiable.
Cop: Brown turned and ran at the cop with his hand in his pants. This is [b]not[/b] justifiable.
Car: before he caused any serious injuries, protesters decided to attack his car instead of doing what most crowds would do and run away. This is [b]not[/b] justifiable.
Cop: shot Brown. This is (somewhat questionably) justifiable use of force in self defense.
Car: accelerated blindly twice, causing serious injuries. This is not truly justifiable, but it is [b]understandable[/b] and arguably [b]unavoidable[/b].
See any differences here?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;46577717]i also like how there is all these different things the protestors could have done to show their dissatisfaction with the state of affairs in america/saint louis/ferguson, but when the alternatives to the thigns someone who ran over a womans leg could have done are shown it's like, nah man hell no it's fight or flight instincts literally would not allow it they were scared what would you do if a bunch of people were crowded around your car angrily??? i wonder what any of you would do if you, your family & your friends had been fucked over purely on the basis of your skin colour since fuck knows when. probably drive a car into the police line right?[/QUOTE]
Well there is a big difference between something which is happening right now and demands immediate attention like
[QUOTE]Oh fuck oh fuck I just ran over a womens leg, oh shit I'm boxed in, everyones around me, shit what do I do [/QUOTE]
And things like the verdict which, although may bring up comparable emotions, does not require (and I mean require) any immediate action. The actions of some of the protesters were ones which they had time to think about and consider
This might get dumbs, but fuck it I get an opinion even if people think I'm stupid for it. If you go out of your way to neglect traffic laws and intentionally walk in front of traffic that's moving or supposed to be moving, whether it be walking on a red light in front of traffic or protesting by blocking large through streets, the driver should get the legal right to run through you since that would be considered as a form of the pedestrian attempting suicide. I see in the former case happen all the time, and once resulted in one car clipping another while trying to avoid a pedestrian in traffic. People have to realize a) we don't have to respect stupidity and maliciousness and b) protesting for a cause by annoying the fuck out of people unrelated to the cause does NOT get support from those people. Just look at the Taxi protesting Uber. Uber subscription rates skyrocketed that day.
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