[BREAKING] Its happening. Grand jury has made a decision about Ferguson.
2,211 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46582916]If you cared then you'd look up the laws we referenced. But you didn't. You keep blatantly ignoring what snowmew posted about the actual legal definition of "too close to the case", but you don't give a shit because you're going to sit and bitch about how a cop is walking free from a justified homicide.[/QUOTE]
I went through that, and it's about as much as a guideline as the [URL="http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp"]SPJ Code of Ethics[/URL]
That doesn't mean "it's literally impossible to not follow these guidelines"
If he's found to ignore them, then yeah, he could be disbarred.
That doesn't mean he won't ignore them, intentionally or not.
And just because the law says so, that doesn't mean he will be disbarred if he does it.
It's not like some big sign lights up above his head, telling everybody what he did.
An investigation would be opened up under those conditions, but nothing like that will happen when everyone thinks it isn't worth looking into.
And I've said this like 3 times now. The prosecutor is responsible for collecting information from the witnesses. [I]The Grand Jury can have all the evidence in the world[/I], but as far as witness testimonies go, they've only got as much as the prosecutor pulls out. Quit acting like he has no part to play in this.
That's what's bothering me the most throughout all this.
If the prosecutor is so damn impartial, then why the hell is he even there?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46582990]You mean the witness testimonies that he collected and were all proven to be absolutely shit? If you knew ANYTHING about law, then you'd know eye witness stories are worth LESS THAN THE PAPER THEY'RE PRINTED ON. You could tell a jury "yes, i totally watched him kill a guy in cold blood" but if the physical evidence doesn't point to that conclusion then your testimony is worthless. In this case the actual PHYSICAL EVIDENCE pointed to wilson being not worthy of indictment.
Christfuck, please go learn the tinest bit of the legal system before you run around screaming about how it's corrupt.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong places, but there are a few sites regarding the topic saying that "The purpose of the witness statement is to provide written evidence to support a party's case that will, if necessary, be used as evidence in court. The statement is a crucial part of the case, designed to show it in its strongest light. It is important, therefore, to ensure that the statement is accurate and comprehensive."
"crucial part of the case" sounds pretty damn important to me.
The physical evidence is fucked, though. You've probably heard that argument from like half the people in this thread, (and I'd only be reposing things you've already seen and disregarded)-
actually, I'll post some things anyway
-[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWUkBxmFUvU"]Forensic pathologist explains how[/URL] the autopsy shows mike brown falling over while being shot, describing excessive force used
-[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/16/michael-brown-shooting-video_n_5831226.html"]the dozens of separate eyewitnesses[/URL] claiming how Michael was surrendering when shot
-how far Michael's body was found from the car
-each of these conflicting with Darren's own retelling of the events (the last two both in the OP's link to the evidence made public)
...but the physical evidence was so inconsistent with itself. Third parties have gone through the evidence on their own time, and plenty of people are saying "hey, that's not right."
All this confusion and conflict alone is what should have led to an indictment, and later a trial.
People really need to understand the importance of reasonable doubt. Everyone claiming the system is broken needs to ask themselves what is a worst possibility, a guilty man set free or an innocent man convicted.
[QUOTE=cebceb44;46583057]Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong places, but there are a few sites regarding the topic saying that "The purpose of the witness statement is to provide written evidence to support a party's case that will, if necessary, be used as evidence in court. The statement is a crucial part of the case, designed to show it in its strongest light. It is important, therefore, to ensure that the statement is accurate and comprehensive."
"crucial part of the case" sounds pretty damn important to me.
The physical evidence is fucked, though. You've probably heard that argument from like half the people in this thread, (and I'd only be reposing things you've already seen and disregarded)-
actually, I'll post some things anyway
-[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWUkBxmFUvU"]Forensic pathologist explains how[/URL] the autopsy shows mike brown falling over while being shot, describing excessive force used
-[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/16/michael-brown-shooting-video_n_5831226.html"]the dozens of separate eyewitnesses[/URL] claiming how Michael was surrendering when shot
-how far Michael's body was found from the car
-each of these conflicting with Darren's own retelling of the events (the last two both in the OP's link to the evidence made public)
...but the physical evidence was so inconsistent with itself. Third parties have gone through the evidence on their own time, and plenty of people are saying "hey, that's not right."
All this confusion and conflict alone is what should have led to an indictment, and later a trial.[/QUOTE]
-shooting to eliminate the threat means shooting to eliminate the threat. falling over while he was already charging does not indicate that wilson knew he was already dead OR falling over.
-[url=http://bigstory.ap.org/article/078c82ad45ff4ec6aa1c7744dfa7df14/grand-jury-documents-rife-inconsistencies]dozens of eye witnesses from 2 months ago that were found to be wildly inaccurate after the autopsies and during the grand jury[/url]
[QUOTE=cebceb44;46582904]so then do you just not care about this case or what
I'm asking for all of your specific opinions because I've been having a hard time figuring out if it even matters to any of you that this might've been mishandled.
I've heard that a conflict of interest might exist, but it's too expensive to re-trial
I've heard that it is impossible because the law said no
I've heard that, despite everything, McCulloch apparently gives about as much shits about cops as anyone else, and is performing his task like a robot without any opinions
I've yet to receive an answer on if it bothers anyone here that a case might've been mishandled. I don't think I'm ever going to get a yes or no to that answer.
I've gotten plenty of "It Wasn't"s, but no evidence to explain why except "The Law" and "you're clueless and looking too much into things, ceb".
You guys just don't care.[/QUOTE]
Even if McCulloch had a conflict of interest, it wouldn't matter for shit. All evidence from both sides was presented to the grand jury, including all witnesses. He had no role in picking the grand jury.
I tend to favor the people of Ferguson over the local police force, but you're really grasping at straws here. Wilson's been almost proven to be innocent. Stop trying to make it seem like he isn't, and instead focus on the issues that have resulted from this entire fiasco - and help find ways to reduce police discrimination and brutality against minorities. Cherry-picking information to try to defend "your side" of the argument is just stupid. Don't pick a side. I can think that Brown didn't deserve to get shot and simultaneously think Wilson was innocent - neither were horrible people.
[QUOTE=The Haski;46583058]People really need to understand the importance of reasonable doubt. Everyone claiming the system is broken needs to ask themselves what is a worst possibility, a guilty man set free or an innocent man convicted.[/QUOTE] They don't care about guilty or innocent, they don't want justice, they want revenge. All they care about is someone is dead and they want the shooter to suffer regardless of the circumstances.
[QUOTE=Wint3r;46568163]What the hell are they plugging in to the back of that monitor?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://gyazo.com/c517e07d4226bcb63884009c95f48e4b.png[/IMG]
these aren't even plugged in to anything
fucking cody
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46583080]And yet the grand jury didn't agree. Perhaps they knew more about the system than you do (since you've shown you know very little about it). Perhaps they realized that those "dozens of witnesses" all told different stories and some even recanted their testimony. Perhaps that forensic pathologist wasn't a part of the case, and wasn't privvie to all the information. Perhaps you're reaching so far up your ass for proof of wilson's wrong doing that you're tickling your brain.[/QUOTE]
you're boasting about your knowledge of the legal system at literally every chance you get and [I]I'm[/I] the one with my head up my ass? Weren't you the one who said "all the evidence is there, make your own sense of it rather than relying on someone else" or was that another user?
All the evidence is made public and now it's off limits to anyone wanting to form their own opinion. But you'd probably tell me nobody else's opinion matters, except for those 12 jurors.
All these people seeing it for themselves, and saying it doesn't add up, and there's a possible chance of foul play, but hey, that shouldn't matter. Law is Law, and they weren't there.
This whole thing could be one huge mess, but we're not allowed to speak up and find out because we aren't involved. Justice happened, and it's over with.
Personally, I think that's a really shitty view to have, especially on an event like this going on 100 days, that law enforcement's handled so terribly trying to quiet down. but hey, I'm just some clueless outsider who has no idea what they're talking about. I mean, more than just Mike Brown have died in Ferguson, and there are actual, literal, lynch mobs forming there, but it doesn't matter anymore. 12 jurors and a prosecuting attorney decided to avoid moving to an actual trial.
i don't like all this 'the law is the law' rhetoric, one of the reasons these protests have happened is because of how much the law has fucked over blacks in america. acting like it's the be all & end all in situations like these doesn't sit well with me
I'm gonna drop by an post this phenomenal reddit comment:
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2ndfuo/innocent_young_man_michael_brown_shown_on/cmco6v2[/url]
It explains everything I've been trying to explain this whole thread in a more detailed and organized manner, with citations and evidence and everything else. Anyone who still insists that the case is about Brown or that the protesters are animals or that black people are somehow innately less intelligent, read this post.
I've been taking the bulk of twitter and tumblr's reactionary garbage for the past couple days and reading the various transcripts and junk, because social media is forcing me to think about the killing of a guy five thousand miles away, and I wanted to say something where the worst that'll happen is me getting a bunch of boxes, rather than losing half my friends or getting doxed
Darren Wilson seems like a real idiot. How many years has he even been in the force, has he been involved in previous violent situations? Even if the transcripts are fully believable, the guy chose not to take a taser, yet when the time comes to down a guy with his gun, he manages to shoot him six times before he stops him. He used lethal force, he may have felt threatened, but it really feels like he should get a charge for manslaughter or one of the other lesser ones. Brown isn't the highschool kid the media paints him as (he was bigger than the cop, ffs) but he's still a guy who got killed for no reason other than a scared cop's self-defense. Someone should be responsible for that, right?
The protests got way out of hand. But they're realizing that a guy who got himself shot by swearing and wrestling with a cop isn't that good of a poster child, so now they're changing it and generalizing it to all black people, which is appreciated, but they're still taking the Brown case as a ~shining example of systemic racism~ which is isn't at all.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;46583775]I've been taking the bulk of twitter and tumblr's reactionary garbage for the past couple days and reading the various transcripts and junk, because social media is forcing me to think about the killing of a guy five thousand miles away, and I wanted to say something where the worst that'll happen is me getting a bunch of boxes, rather than losing half my friends or getting doxed
Darren Wilson seems like a real idiot. How many years has he even been in the force, has he been involved in previous violent situations? Even if the transcripts are fully believable, the guy chose not to take a taser, yet when the time comes to down a guy with his gun, he manages to shoot him six times before he stops him. He used lethal force, he may have felt threatened, but it really feels like he should get a charge for manslaughter or one of the other lesser ones. Brown isn't the highschool kid the media paints him as (he was bigger than the cop, ffs) but he's still a guy who got killed for no reason other than a scared cop's self-defense. Someone should be responsible for that, right?
The protests got way out of hand. But they're realizing that a guy who got himself shot by swearing and wrestling with a cop isn't that good of a poster child, so now they're changing it and generalizing it to all black people, which is appreciated, but they're still taking the Brown case as a ~shining example of systemic racism~ which is isn't at all.[/QUOTE]
He didn't carry a taser because there are very few at the station and it was cumbersome. Anyway how is it even scaring a cop to use self defense. He literally fucking tried to grab the cop's gun and try to use it on him (with blood splatter, bullet entry wounds, and the bullet being lodged inside the car door as proof). If someone came to you and tried to pull your gun off of you and tried to shoot you with it, the first thing that will pop in your head is this person is trying to kill me. then when he charges at you ready to take you down and beat you, you should just say hey stop that? he told brown to get the fuck down on the ground while he was charging and he didnt do it, which resulted with him being shot multiple times and killed.
Also love everyone who thinks he should have been like fucking snake from MGS and take him down with CQC or some shit.
[url]http://bigstory.ap.org/article/078c82ad45ff4ec6aa1c7744dfa7df14/grand-jury-documents-rife-inconsistencies[/url]
This is a big eye opener on how inconsistent the witnesses were....
[QUOTE=codemaster85;46583819]He didn't carry a taser because there are very few at the station and it was cumbersome. Anyway how is it even scaring a cop to use self defense. He literally fucking tried to grab the cop's gun and try to use it on him (with blood splatter, bullet entry wounds, and the bullet being lodged inside the car door as proof). If someone came to you and tried to pull your gun off of you and tried to shoot you with it, the first thing that will pop in your head is this person is trying to kill me. then when he charges at you ready to take you down and beat you, you should just say hey stop that? he told brown to get the fuck down on the ground while he was charging and he didnt do it, which resulted with him being shot multiple times and killed.
Also love everyone who thinks he should have been like fucking snake from MGS and take him down with CQC or some shit.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that at all though. He's dead, nothing's gonna change that, I'm just saying he should be charged for killing a guy, not walk scot free with paid leave (and probably quit afterwards since any black american with a deathwish sees him out patrolling and he's dead meat)
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46583867]Why? He acted within the law. What grounds do you have to charge him?[/QUOTE]
the ground on hurting feelings.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;46583859]I'm not saying that at all though. He's dead, nothing's gonna change that, I'm just saying he should be charged for killing a guy, not walk scot free with paid leave (and probably quit afterwards since any black american with a deathwish sees him out patrolling and he's dead meat)[/QUOTE]
A killing that can be easily seen as justified?
[QUOTE=latin_geek;46583859]I'm not saying that at all though. He's dead, nothing's gonna change that, I'm just saying he should be charged for killing a guy, not walk scot free with paid leave (and probably quit afterwards since any black american with a deathwish sees him out patrolling and he's dead meat)[/QUOTE]
While we're at it, let's just go ahead and throw all cops and military personnel that have to shoot someone in an already overpopulated prison system.
I went back home for thanksgiving break, and a few moments ago news about Ferguson comes up on tv while I was eating and my mother goes on to say that the rioters should be shot for fucking up the city because of the grand jury decision. My mother is not racist, so race had nothing to do with her saying this. Regardless, what the fuck mom.
[QUOTE=Pokeman493;46583912]I went back home for thanksgiving break, and a few moments ago news about Ferguson comes up on tv while I was eating and my mother goes on to say that the rioters should be shot for fucking up the city because of the grand jury decision. My mother is not racist, so race had nothing to do with her saying this. Regardless, what the fuck mom.[/QUOTE]
No, your mother is [b][i]incredibly[/i][/b] racist, she just hasn't accepted it yet.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46583867]Why? He acted within the law. What grounds do you have to charge him?[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I'm really not well versed enough in other justice systems/sets of laws to tell what is and isn't within the law. I'm really just making a fool out of myself here.
It kind of has to do with feelings, as much as I try to view it objectively. The reactionary, unfounded outrage, constant flow of doctored bullshit, impressive lists of week-outdated reports and other shit shoveled on me while trying to just see what friends are up to really got to me, I guess. Sorry.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;46583775]Even if the transcripts are fully believable, the guy chose not to take a taser, yet when the time comes to down a guy with his gun, he manages to shoot him six times before he stops him.[/QUOTE]
A Taser only has one shot and it's not guaranteed to work. If the Taser missed or failed, Ferguson may have a severely injured or dead police officer, and none of us would have even heard the name of the town, the officer, or the suspect.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;46583775]He used lethal force, he may have felt threatened, but it really feels like he should get a charge for manslaughter or one of the other lesser ones. Brown isn't the highschool kid the media paints him as (he was bigger than the cop, ffs) but he's still a guy who got killed for no reason other than a scared cop's self-defense. Someone should be responsible for that, right?[/QUOTE]
I assume you're one of those people that don't believe-in self-defense, so I'm not going to argue this part with you.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;46583772]I'm gonna drop by an post this phenomenal reddit comment:
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2ndfuo/innocent_young_man_michael_brown_shown_on/cmco6v2[/url]
It explains everything I've been trying to explain this whole thread in a more detailed and organized manner, with citations and evidence and everything else. Anyone who still insists that the case is about Brown or that the protesters are animals or that black people are somehow innately less intelligent, read this post.[/QUOTE]
That post was awesome, but I disagree with this:
[quote]So when they hear that a policeman killed an unarmed teenager, they already know that there won't be justice. That's why they protest. Because they have no other recourse.[/quote]
I think they see it as an injustice due to the lack of knowledge of the law. I'm not talking about specifically one race or minority, but everyone.
I dont see this case as an injustice because I have knowledge of the system, the laws, how courts interpret laws, and how cops articulate actions. I can relate to officer Wilson. Those who do not have that education cannot relate to him and resort to monday night quarterback tactics (mostly looking at the media; which is a whole other issue I can bitch about)
After reading the initial interview of Wilson and his testimony to the jury, I can see how he made the decision.
Now, I'm not saying this system is perfect. Its not. Institutionalized racism is alive and well in this country and in our police forces. The problem is that the younger generation doesnt want to enter these jobs and change it. You cant fix a problem behind glass. You have to get into the system and change it from the inside (related: The only way to fix our politics in the US is for younger people to get involved in politics). The other issue is a cultural one. Because of the generations of african-american/black citizens being wronged by law enforcement there is a stigma of distrust with the police. Our system fails with minorities because of this.. and its hard to change. Extremely hard to change. This is why again we need more people willing to become police officers and represent their ethnicity (Madison WI is good at this if you want to see an example. St.Paul MN also is making good steps with this).
This whole thing is so fucking out of hand, it truly angers me. Nothing is ever going to get better when everyone plasters racism over every fucking thing that involves a white and black guy.
I mean fucking shit, why can a bunch of goobers on Facepunch have more sense about themselves than a Notre Dame educated lawyer on CNN? whhyyyyyyyyyyyy
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;46583999]This whole thing is so fucking out of hand, it truly angers me. Nothing is ever going to get better when everyone plasters racism over every fucking thing that involves a white and black guy.
I mean fucking shit, why can a bunch of goobers on Facepunch have more sense about themselves than a Notre Dame educated lawyer on CNN? whhyyyyyyyyyyyy[/QUOTE]
I'm not a goober, you boob!
[QUOTE=Fausty;46584004]I'm not a goober, you boob![/QUOTE]
We're all goofy goobers here.
I keep seeing this post online, regarding self-defense.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/eDgWOwZ.png[/t]
Any thoughts on this? I don't know enough law myself to know either way.
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;46584254]I keep seeing this post online, regarding self-defense.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/eDgWOwZ.png[/t]
Any thoughts on this? I don't know enough law myself to know either way.[/QUOTE]
Personal self defense is a bit different than a police officer defending themselves from a combative suspect.
Anyone else sick of the "if you aren't completely enraged then you're wrong" posts on literally every social media website?
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;46584297]Anyone else sick of the "if you aren't completely enraged then you're wrong" posts on literally every social media website?[/QUOTE]
I'm sorta sick of the state of racial and economic inequality in the US so I can sympathize with the feeling.
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;46584254][t]http://i.imgur.com/eDgWOwZ.png[/t][/QUOTE]
1. Brown tried to kill Wilson with his own gun, tried to flee, then turned around and charged toward him. Wilson's life [I]was[/I] in danger, Brown was much larger and would be able to overpower Wilson in a fight.
2. Duty to Retreat does not apply to Police Officers.
3. Wilson didn't start the fight. All he did was interact with Brown first, but Brown is the one who got physical him while he was still in his vehicle.
4. Is hard to argue, because there is no real-life equivalent of 'poking an enemy to death' like a videogame, so where to draw the line is subjective.
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