#Calexit Californians want to exit the U.S. after Trump’s presidential win
217 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51345536]Good thing California has a lot of money to pay for electricity and water.[/QUOTE]
I feel like all the people supporting Californian secession have no idea how complicated maintaining an economy is, let alone going from a state in a nation to a sovereign and self-sufficient nation all on its own. Just because some napkin calculations about your GDP seem to match up doesn't mean you can just sever ties with the most powerful country on Earth and magically be okay the next day.
I swear my allegiance to the California republic if ever such a country begins to exist.
It would probably be easier for California to take out the entirety of Washington's political structure than it would be for them to secede.
Good, if California secedes we can keep our water here in Nevada
[QUOTE=Lyonidis;51345535]Sorry, that isn't how it works.
I don't care where you are on the political spectrum, succession is a no-no for obvious reasons.
I mean, shit, I knew that history was an underappreciated subject, but...[/QUOTE]
I find the argument from "it didn't work well last time" a little bit ironic. You guys literally just elected a demagogue who spent his time blaming everything on minorities, talked on and on of how his country can be made the greatest again, threatens to imprison his opponents, and is in absolute denial of a huge amount of very real problems that he's about to face.
I don't like pulling the Hitler card because it's so cheap in a large amount of scenarios, but you guys literally just elected Hitler.
And before it is said that "comparing Trump to Hitler is silliness", consider that Hitler too was very popular with his people until it was found several years later that he was doing the whole concentration camps thing
but really tho this is dumb as all fuck
MY MERGE
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51345536]Good thing California has a lot of money to pay for electricity and water.[/QUOTE]
You have so much money that you are four hundred billion dollars in debt, and all of your naval ports either have US Military operation, or they would be forcefully taken by the United States Navy, disallowing you from even using them.
Yes, you will succeed so well.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51345499]Leaving the union would be our best option because we can actually change things.[/QUOTE]
not really, because it's not legal. the US would invade cali and take it back if that happened, just like if texas did it.
[QUOTE=srobins;51345546]I feel like all the people supporting Californian secession have no idea how complicated maintaining an economy is, let alone going from a state in a nation to a sovereign and self-sufficient nation all on its own. Just because some napkin calculations about your GDP seem to match up doesn't mean you can just sever ties with the most powerful country on Earth and magically be okay the next day.[/QUOTE]
Of course it's a total kneejerk reaction to the election that probably won't go anywhere, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to completely disregard any actual theorising that could come from it.
[editline]10th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51345561]You have so much money that you are four hundred billion dollars in debt, and all of your naval ports either have US Military operation, or they would be forcefully taken by the United States Navy, disallowing you from even using them.
Yes, you will succeed so well.[/QUOTE]
A: It's not like all the other states are not in their own pool of debt as well.
B: I don't understand why your first thought of a secession is one that comes from force.
Not to mention LA Longbeach as a major shipping hub would come to a grinding halt.
[editline]9th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51345566]
B: I don't understand why your first thought of a secession is one that comes from force.[/QUOTE]
Quite simply because the USA will not let California leave by referendum regardless of how much they whined and moaned because it's too economically, and strategically valuable.
It seems like a big "fuck you" to the rest of the country who are just as upset about a trump presidency. Screw you guys, we're not going to try and help make this shit shower work, we're just going to leave it to you. The Remain campaign didn't just say "ah fuck it we're all going to live in France", it reorganised into a pressure group to try and minimise the damage of Brexit and, with a prayer, even stop it.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51345499]This isn't our country anymore. A lot of people share that sentiment. California's vote matters less than Michigan, Florida, and namely all the other swing states in our election. the vast majority here supported Hillary. What we can do is resist. We fracture the empire and they lose stability. The people of California are sick and tired of this Oligarchy, and after this, a lot of us want out.
We are the rising 4th largest economy in the world, control 30% of the imports from other nations, and pay some of the highest amounts into a country that doesn't give two shits about what we think. Leaving the union would be our best option because we can actually change things.[/QUOTE]
I'm an LA native and you can fuck right off with that stupid bullshit
California's biggest boon is it's ability to create food for the rest of the nation, and all of our industries (farming included!) pretty much rely on other states to exist. Our water comes from Nevada- without that, we will die. In what god damn fantasy land do you think California would be able to support itself?
Who would run the government? Who would run the military? Who would PAY for the military? Who would buy our food? our exports? How would we get footing apolitically? How are we going to pay for public works projects? What will stop the USA from invading us? How will we grow crops? How will a constitution be decided? How will we pay back the USA for all infrastructure projects done in California? How will we deal with the huge amount of people that want to LEAVE a sovereign California? Where will our clothes be made?
[QUOTE=Naught;51345562]not really, because it's not legal. the US would invade cali and take it back if that happened, just like if texas did it.[/QUOTE]
If California seceded, there would be some really weird sectioning that would go on. Because they probably wouldn't be alone. You'd probably see the entire West Coast go along with the East Coast north of Maryland. And then Texas may make a break for it independently.
For the people saying California has the economy to do it, a lot of the major technology companies on which California's economic powerhouse is based on have strong ties to Washington D.C. They don't want to secede.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51345558]And before it is said that "comparing Trump to Hitler is silliness", consider that Hitler too was very popular with his people until it was found several years later that he was doing the whole concentration camps thing[/QUOTE]
Have you ever been to a concentration camp? I went to one and there was a soccer field right outside the camp's walls. According to our tour guide, the locals were made to watch the soldiers play games.
It bothers me how fucking stupid other Californians are being right now. We're burning down our own shit to protest something that was not even our own fault. We went blue so why are we destroying our shit to protest Trump winning? It's a bigger case of cutting off your nose to spite your face than voting in Trump to clean house in DC. How the fuck does burning down and wrecking the stores you visit change the outcome of something that was decided by other states and people outside the state?
They can't even see how fucking hypocritical they're being. We survived 8 years under Bush, Republicans survived 8 years under Obama, we can survive another 8. Florida won't since they pretty much OK'd the continued flooding of their state and Pennsylvanians just said yes to poisoning their water supply for cheaper gas and oil.
[QUOTE=OvB;51345572]Quite simply because the USA will not let California leave by referendum regardless of how much they whined and moaned because it's too economically, and strategically valuable.[/QUOTE]
Which I remember mentioning myself;
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51345518]The [I]real[/I] reason is that the US needs California way more than the other way around, which in my opinion, strengthens any sort of California independence movement just by itself.[/QUOTE]
Assuming we did have a California with, say, 75% of Californians wanting to become independent, militarily forcing them to remain in the US because their money is too valuable, despite there being strong enough support for independence, is not democratic in the slightest.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51345558]I find the argument from "it didn't work well last time" a little bit ironic. You guys literally just elected a demagogue who spent his time blaming everything on minorities, talked on and on of how his country can be made the greatest again, threatens to imprison his opponents, and is in absolute denial of a huge amount of very real problems that he's about to face.
I don't like pulling the Hitler card because it's so cheap in a large amount of scenarios, but you guys literally just elected Hitler.
And before it is said that "comparing Trump to Hitler is silliness", consider that Hitler too was very popular with his people until it was found several years later that he was doing the whole concentration camps thing[/QUOTE]
Please explain to me how California will peacefully secede.
Please elaborate how your alleged surplus of wealth will allow you to gain access to natural resources that are in shortage or are completely lacking.
Please share how California will be able to preserve this income and function as an independent nation surrounded on land and sea by the influence of a now neutral or unfriendly nuclear superpower.
Please justify how an exceptionally bad president (one of two horrible candidates, I might add) makes secession from the union and the very real possibility of another civil war (which will have tangible consequences for the next century and something we will likely never truly recover from) totally okay.
And, please try and tell me that, if the situations were reversed with a Clinton victory and it was a southern state suggesting secession, you would still be trying to make this argument.
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;51345585]I'm an LA native and you can fuck right off with that stupid bullshit
California's biggest boon is it's ability to create food for the rest of the nation, and all of our industries (farming included!) pretty much rely on other states to exist. Our water comes from Nevada- without that, we will die. In what god damn fantasy land do you think California would be able to support itself?
Who would run the government? Who would run the military? Who would PAY for the military? Who would buy our food? our exports? How would we get footing apolitically? How are we going to pay for public works projects? What will stop the USA from invading us? How will we grow crops? How will a constitution be decided? How will we pay back the USA for all infrastructure projects done in California? How will we deal with the huge amount of people that want to LEAVE a sovereign California? Where will our clothes be made?[/QUOTE]
1. State government transfers over to the nation.
2. State militas at first take over military recruitment and training.
3. The state makes much more for the rest of the US, than is paid back to us. We could pay for a military at that point. Our population is the highest in the country. We would have a lot of soldiers.
4. Think Oregon, China, Mexico, Local Growers and people in California.
5. We could do this in many different ways, mostly by holding exports and imports hostage.
6. See 3.
7. See 5, also it would make the US look extremely bad to attack a country that voted democratically to leave the union. it's less than likely that we would make deals with the USA in order to facilitate this. attack us and they lose more than they'd gain, simply.
8.Desalination plants would be a lot easier.
9. through time, not rushing through it like the french did in their revolution.
10. We wouldn't.
11. We let them go wherever they want, not as citizens.
12. China, like always.
Flordia, Texas, and the West coast can all secede. Minnesota will try to join Canada.
It can't be done- but if it could be done, I'd want to live there.
[QUOTE=cwook;51345598]For the people saying California has the economy to do it, a lot of the major technology companies on which California's economic powerhouse is based on have strong ties to Washington D.C. They don't want to secede.
Have you ever been to a concentration camp? I went to one and there was a soccer field right outside the camp's walls. According to our tour guide, the locals were made to watch the soldiers play games.[/QUOTE]
A lot of the major technology companies are exactly where the push to secede would come from. mostly because of the FBI NSA scandals.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51345558]you guys literally just elected Hitler. [/QUOTE]
Wait what? I thought Hitler was dead?
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51345619]
5. We could do this in many different ways, mostly by holding exports and imports hostage.
[/QUOTE]
That's going to be a great way to get your new nation welcomed on the international scene. Your country will be a pariah state. All that Cargo can go to Tacoma or Vancouver. It's actually a shorter voyage. You will also be sued by every major shipper on earth for confiscating their property without reason.
By doing this you will have singlehandedly destroyed one of California greatest assets. It's imports.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51345626]A lot of the major technology companies are exactly where the push to secede would come from. mostly because of the FBI NSA scandals.[/QUOTE]
By "ties to DC" I am talking about their influence with U.S. politicians.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51345518]Also sets a pretty bad precedent for the US if the UK allowed Scotland, almost one quarter of their total landmass, to have an indepedence referendum, while they won't allow a single state out of 52 to secede because of some laws written down a while ago.
The [I]real[/I] reason is that the US needs California way more than the other way around, which in my opinion, strengthens any sort of California independence movement just by itself.[/QUOTE]
You do remember the civil war right? I think that more or less established that no, states cannot secede from the union.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;51345587]If California seceded, there would be some really weird sectioning that would go on. Because they probably wouldn't be alone. You'd probably see the entire West Coast go along with the East Coast north of Maryland. And then Texas may make a break for it independently.[/QUOTE]
California seceding would last a week at best.
Cali would seceded, the bay area hipsters would cheer, then immediately the number of shit ton of military bases here would take control of the surrounding area through martial law. The High desert and a bunch of other rural areas would likely say fuck you to California. Then all the water and power being sent into the state would stop and the economy would effectively grind to a halt because LAX and every single source of shipping trucks, boats or other would immediately stop. A shit load of people and businesses would move out of cali and never return. Then likely all the dipshits who voted to seceded would riot and cause more damage to a state that is already crippled with problems and debts.
California has no army to support its succession. California has no means to form a milita, most of the people who are voting for this are likely anti-gun as well. So they would just put themselves up a shit creek. No one on the west coast would go with them. Most people in California wouldn't go with it.
Not to mention if California declared it wasn't apart of the USA anymore? China, Russia and other nations would likely try to stick their finger into the pie if it didn't last for more than a week. That and it wouldn't be recognized on any sort've of world wide level.
However, it would likely bring some much needed change into this retarded state.
[QUOTE=OvB;51345637]That's going to be a great way to get your new nation welcomed on the international scene. Your country will be a pariah state. All that Cargo can go to Tacoma or Vancouver. It's actually a shorter voyage. You will also be sued by every major shipper on earth for confiscating their property without reason.
By doing this you will have singlehandedly destroyed one of California greatest assets. It's imports.[/QUOTE]
I realize that this may never happen but i've always wanted to see california leave the union, since bush won in 2000, mostly because of how little a single person's vote here matters. i think if we made the effort and the push and were able to work things out that it would be extremely possible if not inevitable.
Actually you guys should do it because most of that container cargo is intended for the [I]United States[/I], and will be rerouted to Texas after the Panama Canal expansion opens. Shoot yourself and give us all your delicious imports.
[QUOTE=Lyonidis;51345605]Please explain to me how California will peacefully secede.
Please elaborate how your alleged surplus of wealth will allow you to gain access to natural resources that are in shortage or are completely lacking.
Please share how California will be able to preserve this income and function as an independent nation surrounded on land and sea by the influence of a now neutral or unfriendly nuclear superpower.
Please justify how an exceptionally bad president (one of two horrible candidates, I might add) makes secession from the union and the very real possibility of another civil war (which will have tangible consequences for the next century and something we will likely never truly recover from) totally okay.
And, please try and tell me that, if the situations were reversed with a Clinton victory and it was a southern state suggesting secession, you would still be trying to make this argument.[/QUOTE]
Going to preface that I don't actually know that much about California, but knowing that they're a huge economy, have a lot of people, and give more money in tax than they take is grounds enough to believe that a secession movement would actually be able to start somewhat. I am also going to assume that any secession they do will be through some kind of democratic means, at least initially, because military force is obviously not going to work.
You could compare to Scotland. I doubt that it was Scotland's intention to complete cut off all trade ties to the rest of Britain if it had successfully seceded. Rather, enough of them felt unfairly shackled by Britain's laws on them that they thought succession would have been an overall improvement.
Going on the natural resource thing, if we suppose that the US would be worse off with California leaving due to the deficit in tax money that it would make, I suppose you have a point that the US would make biased trade deals because they knew they could get away with it, but the US as a whole isn't in terribly great financial straits, and I don't think it's too big a stretch to assume that they would accept California money for natural resources.
The fact that you mention the US being a nuclear superpower is a little weird to me. Are you trying to imply that California would be nuked for having the gall to attempt to secede? That's a little crazy. As is the mention of a civil war. I don't think that American citizens would literally kill their former countrymen, because that would do a hell of a lot more damage than any Californian secession ever could.
To me, it seems that despite California being immensely valuable, they are forced to remain in a country with a president they did not agree with and as a result, the residents feel powerless and taken advantage of. Pretty understandable, in my opinion.
Also, on the topic of Texas secession, I wouldn't support it, but I don't think I would condemn it either. If they had enough democratic backing to legitimately want to secede, then they should be able to.
Sounds like it would be a good thing in regards to becoming a more developed country with proper healthcare and such.
Too bad the rest of the US would hate them for it.
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