• Gay couple arrested for kissing outside Mormon church
    316 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lankist;16050130]Fact of the matter is, if you don't pay taxes you are owned by and accountable to the public.[/QUOTE]You didn't read anything I just said, did you. You can't tax a charity, defeats the purpose. You can't tax a Tithe, since that infringes on religious values. It's not like the mormons are getting special treatment, (if I'm wrong on this point, I'm sorry.) a mosque isn't taxed either.
Holy shit lankist you're taking this way to seriously. The point is that this shit happened and unless you plan on being these guys' lawyer then I don't see why you're doing this. Anyways I'm off to steal children and read my bibles.
[QUOTE=TailsPrower;16050298]You didn't read anything I just said, did you. You can't tax a charity, defeats the purpose. You can't tax a Tithe, since that infringes on religious values. It's not like the mormons are getting special treatment, (if I'm wrong on this point, I'm sorry.) a mosque isn't taxed either.[/QUOTE] Yes you can. You can tax a charity that uses discriminatory tactics to achieve political goals. You can tax a tithe. The government does not have to respect religious values. We are a secular state. Your religious values are worthless. The government is never supposed to establish law or precedent respecting any religious institution. This means you can believe whatever the fuck you want, you can believe your holy right is to rule over the country. Tough shit when you get taxed and ignored. I'm not saying Mosques shouldn't be taxed. What I'm saying is that EVERYTHING tax-exempt is accountable to the public. Charity or religious institution, that is the way it works. If you don't like it, move to Saudi Arabia, where nothing is accountable to the public. [QUOTE=Shawnald;16050304]Holy shit lankist you're taking this way to seriously.[/QUOTE] Uhh, because you're comparing pedophiles to homosexuals and you're defending a priest's supposed right to rape small boys.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't people own churches? Like, if someone to founded the church don't they have rights to the property making the fact the church is tax exempt irrelevant?
[QUOTE=Crazy Legs;16050411]Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't people own churches? Like, if someone to founded the church, don't they have rights to the property and the fact they're tax exempt is irrelevant?[/QUOTE] When you are a tax exempt organization you are endorsed by the government and the hole you leave behind in the budget is filled by public funds. It doesn't matter if you pay for everything else, because you aren't paying your fucking taxes. That's like saying because PeTA uses donations to buy fancy offices means they shouldn't be accountable to the public for being a tax exempt organization. They ARE accountable, their budget and tax returns are a matter of public record and individuals are allowed to protest PeTA in any way shape or form they find necessary within the law.
[QUOTE=Lankist;16050472]When you are a tax exempt organization you are endorsed by the government and the hole you leave behind in the budget is filled by public funds. It doesn't matter if you pay for everything else, because you aren't paying your fucking taxes. That's like saying because PeTA uses donations to buy fancy offices means they shouldn't be accountable to the public for being a tax exempt organization. They ARE accountable, their budget and tax returns are a matter of public record and individuals are allowed to protest PeTA in any way shape or form they find necessary within the law.[/QUOTE] Didn't answer my question though. Is the church private property of the person who founded it?
Each and every one of you is ignoring this very important fact: Atheists, homosexuals and everyone else are paying for the existence of that church and their tax exemption status. They cannot violate basic civil rights. The ONLY reason they haven't LOST tax exemption status is because the entirety of our government is Christian and straight. [editline]01:32AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Crazy Legs;16050496]Didn't answer my question though. Is the church private property of the person who founded it?[/QUOTE] No it isn't. Not if they aren't paying the taxes on that property.
[QUOTE=Lankist;16050500]No it isn't. Not if they aren't paying the taxes on that property.[/QUOTE] But churches aren't owned by the government, and the government isn't paying for all of the property costs and expenses. The church body pays for all of the expenses.
[QUOTE=Funion;16049662]I'm mormon. I think since it was owned property they can enforce whatever the hell they want on it. Would you let some guys kiss around in your front yard?[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's kinda their right. Or if I didn't, I'd also disallow straight people from kissing on my lawn.
[QUOTE=Crazy Legs;16050603]But churches aren't owned by the government, and the government isn't paying for all of the property costs and expenses. The church body pays for all of the expenses.[/QUOTE] Churches are however endorsed by and exempted from taxes by the government. The church does NOT pay for all the expenses. I've explained this 50 times. When a tax exempt organization is approved, the local government does not say: Instead of collecting the tax value of these 50 properties we are going to collect the tax value of 49 properties. They have a budget to meet, they cannot afford to do that. No, what happens is: We are going to collect 50 properties worth of tax revenue and just split the exempt property's cost between the remaining 49. Whatever money would be taken in from the church is split among the rest of the populace. [editline]01:43AM[/editline] FYI you do not know what you are talking about. The church is not paying for all their expenses. They are getting tax exemption and a discount on their land, they do not have to pay taxes on labor costs or building materials, they do not have to give income tax based on the revenue they make from tithing (it doesn't count as a donation if you tell people they are going to hell otherwise.) That money comes from SOMEWHERE. There isn't just this big fucking hole in the local tax revenue that gets ignored. Nobody can afford that. Furthermore the mere fact that they are endorsed by the government makes any discriminative action they take an endorsement of that discriminative action, via proxy, by the government. That is absolutely unacceptable. [editline]01:45AM[/editline] It demonstrates a religious preference and blatant violations of dozens of civil rights precedents and is a complete and utter violation of the Separation of Church and State. It is unbelievable that a secular nation would even begin to endorse religious institutions.
:munch:
[QUOTE=Lankist;16050660]Churches are however endorsed by and exempted from taxes by the government. The church does NOT pay for all the expenses. I've explained this 50 times. When a tax exempt organization is approved, the local government does not say: Instead of collecting the tax value of these 50 properties we are going to collect the tax value of 49 properties. They have a budget to meet, they cannot afford to do that. No, what happens is: We are going to collect 50 properties worth of tax revenue and just split the exempt property's cost between the remaining 49. Whatever money would be taken in from the church is split among the rest of the populace.[/QUOTE] But the government isn't paying for any of the church's expenses and neither are you, at least not technically. Do all the math you want but, according to the government, the church isn't getting anything from them. Also, you described PETA as tax exempt... aren't they a private organization?
It would be nice if these people would read the thread before asking the same goddamn questions over and over and then, after getting the answer, pretend I don't know what I'm talking about when, surprise, this shit's my fucking job.
It's a church, they can do whatever they want.
[QUOTE=Crazy Legs;16050757]But the government isn't paying for any of the church's expenses and neither are you, at least not technically. Do all the math you want but, according to the government, the church isn't getting anything from them. Also, you described PETA as tax exempt... aren't they a private organization?[/QUOTE] Yes I am, by proxy. How many fucking times do I have to say it before you listen? I understand budget deficits are difficult for a child on the internet to understand, but when you make something tax exempt there is a giant hole, like a giant gap of air in the middle of the ocean. That hole NEEDS to be filled. The state NEEDS that money, it HAS to come from somewhere. Where the fuck do you think it's going to come from? Magic fairy land? That isn't how shit works! And I'd like to know where you got the impression that the government is saying they aren't getting anything. Ask any politician what the government is giving local churches. They will tell you, if they're fucking competent and aren't too busy banging hookers in South America, that the church is getting tax exempt status. NOT as a charity, but as a religious institution. That is a fucking ENDORSEMENT. That is free fucking money in reality, buddy. They are GIVING the church a "get out of tax free" card. And as I've said over and fucking over, that money the church WOULD be paying doesn't just stop being needed. The local government will still collect that fucking money, only instead of from the church it's distributed among the general populace. And PeTA is classified as a public, tax exempt charity whose tax returns, financial records, employee structure and employee hierarchy are all public domain. You can go to a lawyer and get that information. You can go to your local center of government and get that information. By LAW they are accountable entirely to the public because they are being carried on the heels of our taxes. And right now due to their recent adventures and ethics probes in endorsing terrorist organizations like the A.L.F. they are facing the loss of their tax exempt charity status. [editline]01:53AM[/editline] [QUOTE=DamagePoint;16050849]It's a church, they can do whatever they want.[/QUOTE] No they can't. Read. They can only do what they want when they aren't being supported by public funds, funds that could be used for many other things besides keeping a church afloat because it can't afford its own taxes.
God, Lankist seems to feel about this the same way I feel about the Angry Joe show Ao2 Weapon Design entry.
[QUOTE=protoAuthor;16050976]God, Lankist seems to feel about this the same way I feel about the Angry Joe show Ao2 Weapon Design entry.[/QUOTE] Cool
[QUOTE=Lankist;16050872]They can only do what they want when they aren't being supported by public funds, funds that could be used for many other things besides keeping a church afloat because it can't afford its own taxes.[/QUOTE] That's like telling someone on welfare what they can and can't believe because they're receiving government money. If they churches were entirely, or mostly funded by the government then I could see that but from what I can tell churches are making most of their money on their own so telling them how having the government tell them have to worship is over the top to me.
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;16050998]That's like telling someone on welfare what they can and can't believe because they're receiving government money. If they churches were entirely, or mostly funded by the government then I could see that but from what I can tell churches are making most of their money on their own so telling them how having the government tell them have to worship is over the top to me.[/QUOTE] No, it's like telling someone on unemployment that they are going to stop receiving unemployment if they do not prove they have been actively searching for a job. And FYI you don't get welfare if you blatantly abuse it. Like, say, using your welfare check to spite black people. [editline]02:04AM[/editline] They collect money they do not pay taxes on. Money that has already been spent by the local government, money that needs to be earned from some other means. Read. The fucking. Thread. [editline]02:07AM[/editline] If you're on welfare and you spend two hundred dollars on a sign that says "fuck niggers" and lights up at night you aren't going to be getting any more welfare checks. [editline]02:10AM[/editline] Additionally, if you are a tax exempt organization and you try to have minorities arrested for being minorities on your property, you are going to lose your exemption. Unless of course you're a church because that's TOTALLY DIFFERENT
[QUOTE=Lankist;16051013]No, it's like telling someone on unemployment that they are going to stop receiving unemployment if they do not prove they have been actively searching for a job. And FYI you don't get welfare if you blatantly abuse it. Like, say, using your welfare check to spite black people. [editline]02:04AM[/editline] They collect money they do not pay taxes on. Money that has already been spent by the local government, money that needs to be earned from some other means. Read. The fucking. Thread. [editline]02:07AM[/editline] If you're on welfare and you spend two hundred dollars on a sign that says "fuck niggers" and lights up at night you aren't going to be getting any more welfare checks. [editline]02:10AM[/editline] Additionally, if you are a tax exempt organization and you try to have minorities arrested for being minorities on your property, you are going to lose your exemption. Unless of course you're a church because that's TOTALLY DIFFERENT[/QUOTE] Fucking brilliant.
[QUOTE=Lankist;16050872]Yes I am, by proxy. How many fucking times do I have to say it before you listen? I understand budget deficits are difficult for a child on the internet to understand, but when you make something tax exempt there is a giant hole, like a giant gap of air in the middle of the ocean. That hole NEEDS to be filled. The state NEEDS that money, it HAS to come from somewhere. Where the fuck do you think it's going to come from? Magic fairy land? That isn't how shit works! And I'd like to know where you got the impression that the government is saying they aren't getting anything. Ask any politician what the government is giving local churches. They will tell you, if they're fucking competent and aren't too busy banging hookers in South America, that the church is getting tax exempt status. NOT as a charity, but as a religious institution. That is a fucking ENDORSEMENT. That is free fucking money in reality, buddy. They are GIVING the church a "get out of tax free" card. And as I've said over and fucking over, that money the church WOULD be paying doesn't just stop being needed. The local government will still collect that fucking money, only instead of from the church it's distributed among the general populace. And PeTA is classified as a public, tax exempt charity whose tax returns, financial records, employee structure and employee hierarchy are all public domain. You can go to a lawyer and get that information. You can go to your local center of government and get that information. By LAW they are accountable entirely to the public because they are being carried on the heels of our taxes. And right now due to their recent adventures and ethics probes in endorsing terrorist organizations like the A.L.F. they are facing the loss of their tax exempt charity status. [editline]01:53AM[/editline] No they can't. Read. They can only do what they want when they aren't being supported by public funds, funds that could be used for many other things besides keeping a church afloat because it can't afford its own taxes.[/QUOTE] I'll stop after this so you won't blow a blood vessel. I'm just going to clarify my viewpoint. Basically, all you've rambled on in the thread was that churches are public property because they're tax exempt and you pay the churches by proxy. The only support the government gave to the churches, as far as I saw, was that they didn't force them to pay taxes. I start rambling on that your money is basically going the government, not the churches, and you just have to pay THE GOVERNMENT more because the churches aren't paying anything. I think the churches are just not taxed, not that they're being given money. Maybe you could have said something that showed the government directly gave churches funds and everyone should've shut up a loooong time ago. Not this, "I'M PAYIN' FOR THE CHURCHES 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT PAYING ANYTHING SO I HAVE TO GIVE THE GOVERNMENT MORE MONEY!" shit. I'm not even stopping because of that argument. I'm stopping because, according to you, PETA is a public organization given tax-exempt status. That threw my entire, "Just because churches are tax-exempt doesn't mean they're public property. Look at PETA!" argument out the window. I can't ask anyone for information because it's 2 AM and the Internet is turning up shit. I can't even find out if a church is public property, let alone private.
Maybe you haven't seen support because you're 16 and you don't know how the fuck tax exemption works. [editline]02:19AM[/editline] And refuse to listen when I, a man with a law degree whose job is to research these sorts of things every single day, explain how it works.
[QUOTE=Lankist;16051162]Maybe you haven't seen support because you're 16 and you don't know how the fuck tax exemption works. [editline]02:19AM[/editline] And refuse to listen when I, a man with a law degree whose job is to research these sorts of things every single day, explain how it works.[/QUOTE] I think you just like to argue.
If you don't "see it" by now you're blind and deaf and haven't read a goddamn word I've said. [editline]02:19AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Crazy Legs;16051174]I think you just like to argue.[/QUOTE] I think you're illiterate.
[QUOTE=Lankist;16051178]If you don't "see it" by now you're blind and deaf and haven't read a goddamn word I've said. [editline]02:19AM[/editline] I think you're illiterate.[/QUOTE] This debate is going nowhere fast. I think it's mostly because it ended.
And yet you haven't left yet after you said you were finished four posts ago
[QUOTE=Lankist;16051225]And yet you haven't left yet after you said you were finished four posts ago[/QUOTE] ...fuck
That's five. [editline]02:27AM[/editline] And that's 6. [editline]02:27AM[/editline] I can see you writing a post in your head. [editline]02:27AM[/editline] "It's only been four!" You write. [editline]02:28AM[/editline] That's seven.
[QUOTE=Lankist;16051249]That's five. [editline]02:27AM[/editline] And that's 6. [editline]02:27AM[/editline] I can see you writing a post in your head. [editline]02:27AM[/editline] "It's only been four!" You write. [editline]02:28AM[/editline] That's seven.[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand the people you're arguing with. [url=www.helenkellersimulator.com]This might help.[/url]
lankist your extremist hindu beliefs are derailing this thread [editline]09:31AM[/editline] won't someone think...of the rails [editline]09:31AM[/editline] my rails...they're ruined
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