• Child Porn Site Kept Running in FBI Operation
    184 replies, posted
[QUOTE=cueballv2themax;40828258]they keep it running people view it they find out who viewed it go nab them find more cp jail them for having that cp[/QUOTE] Nabbing the viewers is useless. This is not justified at all until they find the people who [I]made[/I] the CP. You can't jail every pedo in the entire country, the logistics behind that are impossible and just exacerbates the prison overcrowding issue if you try. [editline]29th May 2013[/editline] While this isn't entrapment, it is proactive in nature. Proactive, anything is fucking bullshit. You're not stopping crime, you're making crime and then punishing the crime you made. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words#United_States"]You can't proactively encourage somebody to assault you[/URL], so why the hell does shit like this make sense?
[QUOTE=Rocko's;40831029]If you're saying that what the FBI did, which was getting the list of users who was viewing, uploading, and downloading the pictures on the site, is distributing...then I really don't know anymore. Where are you getting that the FBI also uploaded CP on to that site? Cause the only thing the FBI did was just leaving the site up for a certain amount of time, then taking it down and cracking down on the users, I don't see that as terribly harmful. I don't see it as totally fine, but what it did was get more then what they wanted in the first place.[/QUOTE] they made the content available after they knew it was child pornography and had the chance to take it down. that's distribution of child pornography.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;40830294]So does this mean that the FBI has a child-pornography database?[/QUOTE] They also look through all the photos and videos, it must be pretty nasty to have that job.
:pwn:
[QUOTE=GameDev;40828223]In their defense, it caught over 5k pedos. The website was [B]not created by the government, it was seized by the government but continued to run to catch the users.[/b][/QUOTE] It only resulted in one seized computer.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;40831126] While this isn't entrapment, it is proactive in nature. Proactive, anything is fucking bullshit. You're not stopping crime, you're making crime and then punishing the crime you made. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words#United_States"]You can't proactively encourage somebody to assault you[/URL], so why the hell does shit like this make sense?[/QUOTE] They weren't "making crime". The site was already up and established (it's not like they made it themselves), they just took it over to arrest the users (who were mostly members from before they took it over). Now, if they started spamming the site all over to try to lure more people in, that would be more like fighting words.
They just took control of the server and used it in a sting operation. Nothing out of the ordinary there. It also will make more paedophiles less likely to act on their urges and perhaps, seek help instead. Seen as knowing the FBI are setting up sting operations on 'reputable' CP sites, many paedophiles won't know who to trust. I'm all for the ones who don't seek help getting jail time. The ones that seek help before harming any children or supporting the CP market, deserve every bit of help that can reasonably be given to them.
do the sting operations actually lower demand for cp though? does it actually make pedophiles less likely to act on their urges?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40833160]do the sting operations actually lower demand for cp though? does it actually make pedophiles less likely to act on their urges?[/QUOTE] If you were a stoner and a bunch of local dealers your friends used (and your friends) got busted, would you not be a little more hesitant to ask your dealer for a few grams of his finest? It's common sense; if something you're doing is illegal and becomes riskier - you either stop or take more precautions not to get caught. And not getting caught by the FBI isn't something a lot of people have great know-how on.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;40833183]If you were a stoner and a bunch of local dealers your friends used (and your friends) got busted, would you not be a little more hesitant to ask your dealer for a few grams of his finest? It's common sense; if something you're doing is illegal and becomes riskier - you either stop or take more precautions not to get caught. And not getting caught by the FBI isn't something a lot of people have great know-how on.[/QUOTE] but prohibition hasn't lowered demand for marijuana that much at all.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40833261]but prohibition hasn't lowered demand for marijuana that much at all.[/QUOTE] The effort required to get it is significantly more. For example; you need to know a dealer (and be cool with him), while if fully legal you could probably just go down to the local supermarket.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;40833291]The effort required to get it is significantly more. For example; you need to know a dealer (and be cool with him), while if fully legal you could probably just go down to the local supermarket.[/QUOTE] but that doesn't necessarily lower demand or usage.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40833315]but that doesn't necessarily lower demand or usage.[/QUOTE] If pizza hut / whatever didn't deliver would you get it as often? Less convenient, less usage. Less safe, less usage. Simple. It's not rocket science.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;40833328]If pizza hut / whatever didn't deliver would you get it as often? Less convenient, less usage. Less safe, less usage. Simple. It's not rocket science.[/QUOTE] but that isn't true at all. it doesn't actually work like that in the real world for w/e reason.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40831284]they made the content available after they knew it was child pornography and had the chance to take it down. that's distribution of child pornography.[/QUOTE] But if they can justify the crime then it's legal for law enforcement to do so.
Being a pedo doesn't make you a child molester. The watchers are harmless and it should be the guys making the CP that should be hunted down.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;40831126]Nabbing the viewers is useless. This is not justified at all until they find the people who [I]made[/I] the CP. You can't jail every pedo in the entire country, the logistics behind that are impossible and just exacerbates the prison overcrowding issue if you try. [editline]29th May 2013[/editline] While this isn't entrapment, it is proactive in nature. Proactive, anything is fucking bullshit. You're not stopping crime, you're making crime and then punishing the crime you made. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words#United_States"]You can't proactively encourage somebody to assault you[/URL], so why the hell does shit like this make sense?[/QUOTE] You're analogy doesn't work at all. They didn't provoke people to commit the crime like you would by provoking in an assault, the people were going to commit the crime whether the FBIran the site or not.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;40833573]Being a pedo doesn't make you a child molester. The watchers are harmless and it should be the guys making the CP that should be hunted down.[/QUOTE] except that in many cases they will be directly or indirectly funding cp. [editline]30th May 2013[/editline] although i suppose that's a seperate offence, so nvm
[QUOTE=Hellduck;40833599]except that in many cases they will be directly or indirectly funding cp. [/QUOTE] That argument could be used with drugs and organized crime, although drugs are not necessarily evil or harmful on their own.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;40833669]That argument could be used with drugs and organized crime.[/QUOTE] And it is, and quite frequently too.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;40833669]That argument could be used with drugs and organized crime, although drugs are not necessarily evil or harmful on their own.[/QUOTE] which is why i didnt draw that parallel.
Not cool, and somewhat of an invasion of privacy, even if they arguably don't deserve privacy. They should be focusing on catching the producers, not the consumers.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;40828441]But they caught 5000 pedophiles. That's a lot of pedophiles[/QUOTE] They caught 5,000 [b]criminal pedophiles[/b] please remember the difference
wtf no pics of said cp to validate truthfulness 0/10
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;40834168]creep post[/QUOTE] i'd snip that, it's bannable.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;40833669]That argument could be used with drugs and organized crime, although drugs are not necessarily evil or harmful on their own.[/QUOTE] And the usual suggestion is to legalize drugs so that they may be obtained without funding crime. One could apply the same logic to CP: provide a legal way to obtain CP and there's no need to produce it in a way which hurts people. I'm sure FBI et al. have gathered enough CP to provide your average paedophile with a lifetime supply of smut.
[QUOTE=ThePuska;40834381]And the usual suggestion is to legalize drugs so that they may be obtained without funding crime. One could apply the same logic to CP: provide a legal way to obtain CP and there's no need to produce it in a way which hurts people. I'm sure FBI et al. have gathered enough CP to provide your average paedophile with a lifetime supply of smut.[/QUOTE] Problem is, drugs (and the methods used to make/manufacture them) don't have feelings, kids do. So legalizing CP is out of the question.
[QUOTE=leontodd;40828239]Does this border on entrapment? I'm not familiar with US laws though so I'm probably wrong.[/QUOTE] I don't know, but it definitely counts as distribution of child pornography
[QUOTE=Flapadar;40833328]If pizza hut / whatever didn't deliver would you get it as often? Less convenient, less usage. Less safe, less usage. Simple. It's not rocket science.[/QUOTE] If it's that simple then why has drug use and demand been consistently going up since the 70s even when drug laws were getting harsher and stricter? Your analogy just doesn't work.
[QUOTE=ThePuska;40834381]And the usual suggestion is to legalize drugs so that they may be obtained without funding crime. One could apply the same logic to CP: provide a legal way to obtain CP and there's no need to produce it in a way which hurts people. I'm sure FBI et al. have gathered enough CP to provide your average paedophile with a lifetime supply of smut.[/QUOTE] Except all CP is exploiting a child, even if its already happened, and spreading the images of a child like that would be unacceptable.
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