480 000 sex crimes against women in Sweden - in a year
93 replies, posted
[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;51307454]Don't take in refugees and secure the border. What we should have done is never have created the power vacuum and instability in the middle east with proxy wars, but a good idea now is to just eradicate Islam along with other religion since muh gerd and muh jeebus seem to be a big motivator behind what's wrong in the world.[/QUOTE]
How do we solve crime? Let's lobotomize every single person on the planet, that way they can't commit crime anymore.
How do we solve wealth inequality? Shoot anyone with too high an income, that way everyone has an equal amount of income!
That is the [U][B][I]exact same logic[/I][/B][/U] you're using. All the shit going on in the world is so complex, multi-faceted and linked to many factors, pinning it on "religion" is fucking stupid.
Don't tell me you're one of those brain-damaged morons who think World War II was fought because religion.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;51307411]Remember guys in war Women and kids flee the country, and intermingled into them is the cowards and lowlifes who want to run away.[/QUOTE]
And why exactly are men's lives intrinsically less important?
When the alternative is the possibility to be forcibly conscripted, depending on where you are, by Assad, ISIS or the rebels, with the result being that you can't support your family and you will probably be implicated in war crimes, why is running away so bad?
[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;51307454]but a good idea now is to just eradicate Islam along with other religion since muh gerd and muh jeebus seem to be a big motivator behind what's wrong in the world.[/QUOTE]
It's like the Soviets, but in 2016! Yay!
[quote]seem to be a big motivator behind what's wrong in the world.[/QUOTE]
Whereas blatant nativism and nationalism didn't do nothing wrong. Gotcha.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51307517]you're getting it wrong though, obviously refugees aren't responsible for the majority of all sex crimes, just a big increase in them[/QUOTE]
He didn't specify, so I assumed he wasn't being specific to the increase. If he was, then yes, refugees do have a higher than average rate of committing crimes, including sex crimes, when compared to the average population (from what I can see most, but not all of that can be explained by socioeconomic factors). Whilst I would like him to demonstrate that [i]most[/i] of the increase has come from refugees as that's still a pretty big claim, I expect they contributed. That said, the solution isn't just stopping all refugees. Those who commit crimes should face prosecution and justice but we can't base our attitude to millions of people based on the actions of a small percentage of the population.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;51307490]There are 142000 registered refugees in Sweden, meaning that for most of them to be committed by refugees you'd need an average of 2 sex crimes per refugee. While I don't doubt t that some refugees commit crimes, they aren't literally committing several crimes each.[/QUOTE]
Sex crimes are committed in large numbers by small numbers of individuals for native populations, so I imagine the same applies to refugee populations.
[QUOTE=phaedon;51307578]And why exactly are men's lives intrinsically less important?
When the alternative is the possibility to be forcibly conscripted, depending on where you are, by Assad, ISIS or the rebels, with the result being that you can't support your family and you will probably be implicated in war crimes, why is running away so bad?
It's like the Soviets, but in 2016! Yay![/QUOTE]
I think there is an almost proportionate, more or less, number of men and women fleeing from Syria. It is just that there are so many men from northern africa and other middle eastern countries claiming to be syrian refugees and taking advantage of the west's hospitality - so it end up looking like the vast majority are fleeing men.
[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;51307454]just eradicate Islam along with other religion since muh gerd and muh jeebus seem to be a big motivator behind what's wrong in the world.[/QUOTE]
And with this, you lost all my attention. I really hope this was just a joke, people who honestly suggest genocide as a solution deserve no respect or attention what so ever.
I mean, as much as I highly detest a few of !LordM!'s opinions and general rhetoric
[QUOTE]How about, don't take in more then your social system can handle, deport all who commit crimes while saying they need asylum, secure the borders, make background checks, establish a gender quota for asylum seekers (more then 80% are men), deport those lying about their age to get better asylum privileges, help them educate themselves in Swedish so they have a chance to integrate into the society. [/QUOTE]
He at least put forth a few practical solutions that does not involve the slaughtering of millions. Integration is the game we must play, not mass murder.
[QUOTE=da space core;51307654]He at least put forth a practical solution that does not involve the slaughtering of millions. Integration is the game we must play, not mass murder.[/QUOTE]
True. But we should not take in many more if we are having trouble integrating the ones already here, in that case lower the quotas until it works out.
Another thing that is important I think is to have state controlled mosques, which does not spread the extreme interpretations of islam like the ones Saudi Arabia are sponsoring and building all over Europe. That way we will know for sure they won't be breeding grounds for jihadist and extremists.
But you people seem to forget that the overwhelming majority of refugees return to their home country in the span of a decade after a war ends in their home country.
[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;51307454]Don't take in refugees and secure the border. What we should have done is never have created the power vacuum and instability in the middle east with proxy wars, but a good idea now is to just eradicate Islam along with other religion since muh gerd and muh jeebus seem to be a big motivator behind what's wrong in the world.[/QUOTE]
You're real funny if you think we started the Syrian civil war (where most of the refugees are from) and that it totally wasn't Assad that started slaughtering his own citizens. "Now we need to eradicate Islam and other religions". The middle east as a whole was destabilized during/after WW1, and even before then extremists groups were growing, stop acting like it suddenly happened a couple decades ago.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;51307669]But you people seem to forget that overwhelmingly majority of refugees return to their home country in the span of a decade after a war ends in their home country.[/QUOTE]
No they don't... At least not in the West. Maybe if they're in horrible refugee camps nearby, sure.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;51307669]But you people seem to forget that overwhelmingly majority of refugees return to their home country in the span of a decade after a war ends in their home country.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to see numbers, otherwise it is just words coming out of your mouth.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;51307675]You're real funny if you think we started the Syrian civil war (where most of the refugees are from) and that it totally wasn't Assad that started slaughtering his own citizens. "Now we need to eradicate Islam and other religions". The middle east as a whole was destabilized during/after WW1, and even before then extremists groups were growing, stop acting like it suddenly happened a couple decades ago.[/QUOTE]
Many historians blame the fall of the Ottoman Empire and following unrest for all the mess.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51307668]Another thing that is important I think is to have state controlled mosques, which does not spread the extreme interpretations of islam like the ones Saudi Arabia are sponsoring and building all over Europe. That way we will know for sure they won't be breeding grounds for jihadist and extremists.[/QUOTE]
instead of targeting mosques directly (because that is, essentially, religious discrimination from the government, involving religion with government should just be avoided anyways), I believe it would be far more effective to say that any calls for "terrorism" or just general harm to others should be punished, even if under the guise of religion. Like that, we can still target the extreme interpretations of islam (and other religions) without singling any one innocent group
It would be difficult for anyone to genuinely conclude that the indigenous population would commit more sex crimes because of heightened immigration.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51307727]It would be difficult for anyone to genuinely conclude that the indigenous population would commit more sex crimes because of heightened immigration.[/QUOTE]
Nobody suggested that. They suggested that since the definition of a sex crime was expanded the number was sure to rise.
[QUOTE=da space core;51307726]instead of targeting mosques directly (because that is, essentially, religious discrimination from the government, involving religion with government should just be avoided anyways), I believe it would be far more effective to say that any calls for "terrorism" or just general harm to others should be punished, even if under the guise of religion. Like that, we can still target the extreme interpretations of islam (and other religions) without singling any one innocent group[/QUOTE]
Oh I do not mean controlled like in a fascist or soviet state way. More like they should know exactly who the imams are, what the message they preach is and where the government funding is going. Just like the church.
[QUOTE=plunger435;51307736]Nobody suggested that. They suggested that since the definition of a sex crime was expanded the number was sure to rise.[/QUOTE]
This is only relevant if the number of low level sex crimes makes up the numbers. I bet it doesn't as it's very unlikely that women would actually report having their bum pinched to the police.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51307676]No they don't... At least not in the West. Maybe if they're in horrible refugee camps nearby, sure.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51307681]I'd like to see numbers, otherwise it is just words coming out of your mouth.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.internal-displacement.org/assets/Uploads/_resampled/ResizedImage600420-201411-infographic-eu-bosnia-idp-figures-events-en.png[/IMG]
[URL="http://www.refworld.org/docid/3d04c1470.html"]In June 2002[/URL], 388,000 of Bosnian refugees returned to their homes from foreign countries. Which is 90% of overall Bosnian refugees that fled Bosnia during the war.
[URL="http://www.unhcr.org/news/briefing/2004/9/414ffeb44/returns-bosnia-herzegovina-reach-1-million.html"]By September 2004[/URL], number of of Bosnian refugees thatt returned to their homes from foreign country had reached 440,000.
Bosnia had suffered economic and political stagnation since the Dayton Accord in 1995, and yet overwhelming majority of people still choose to return to their home over staying in countries like Germany and Sweden. And Bosnians had a lot more easier time to integrate then do Syrians, Iraqis, Afghanis and others, due to Bosnia being a melting pot of Western, Eastern and Middle Eastern cultures.
Interesting, but I still very much doubt Syrian refugees will return to their homes. I'm not sure there will be much left to return to, at least within the next three decades, at this rate.
Bosnia is also a European country modernized by secular socialists, with its own economic and social future. Muslim countries are comparatively more strife ridden, and because of our foreign policy it no longer means anything to be Iraqi, for example, and unlike the balkans the prospects for this aren't changing. Not even their military has any real loyalty to the nation and feels like they have any stake, which is why IS took root in the first place
In that light, why not just come take advantage of a safety net paid for by a post-national state?
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51307883]Interesting, but I still very much doubt Syrian refugees will return to their homes. I'm not sure there will be much left to return to, at least within the next three decades, at this rate.[/QUOTE]
Syria still has oil and very strategic location for maritime trade to bounce back it's economy once war is over, something what Bosnia does not have.
Also Iraq is in similar situation like Syria, only war is nearly over there.[URL="https://www.iom.int/news/million-iraqis-return-home-iom-displacement-tracking-matrix"] For that close 1 million of Iraqi refugees are already returning home[/URL], although most it is internally and there is currently no reliable statistic on refugees abroad returning. But it has been reported [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2016/jul/20/the-returnees-what-happens-when-refugees-decide-to-go-back-home"]thousands of Iraqis are leaving European countries[/URL].
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;51307411]
You're not saying all of them are bad, but you aren't turning your eyes from that fact that the scum of their country is probably hiding among the refugees.
[/QUOTE]
"Watch out everybody, Europe is full of vultures; vultures everywhere."
[video=youtube;JW5bcI0ADCY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW5bcI0ADCY[/video]
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51307603]Sex crimes are committed in large numbers by small numbers of individuals for native populations, so I imagine the same applies to refugee populations.[/QUOTE]
I'm aware, but the numbers remain ridiculous if you start reducing the percentage of people and increasing the number of sex crimes per person. That said, apparently he meant of the increase, which has yet to be evidenced.
[editline]4th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51307605]I think there is an almost proportionate, more or less, number of men and women fleeing from Syria. It is just that there are so many men from northern africa and other middle eastern countries claiming to be syrian refugees and taking advantage of the west's hospitality - so it end up looking like the vast majority are fleeing men.[/QUOTE]
Quite often they'll send the men on the dangerous journeys to try and find a better life (generally education for their children) and then bring their children after them on safer routes once they have refugee status.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51307605]I think there is an almost proportionate, more or less, number of men and women fleeing from Syria. It is just that there are so many men from northern africa and other middle eastern countries claiming to be syrian refugees and taking advantage of the west's hospitality - so it end up looking like the vast majority are fleeing men.[/QUOTE]
But how would a gender quota solve that issue? It wouldn't let in legit Syrian refugees and refuse opportunistic migrants, you would let the exact same proportions of refugees/migrants in while refusing a large chunk of actual refugees.
[QUOTE=KillRay;51307466]Just fuckin end religion huh
[editline]4th November 2016[/editline]
If he made a good point he would be able to back it up
But he didn't[/QUOTE]
In a theoretical situation where a country is intentionally excluding race or immigration status stats in their published crime reports while there is a correlation people are speculating on between refugees/immigrants and an increase in crime rates what would you say?
[QUOTE=da space core;51307654]And with this, you lost all my attention. I really hope this was just a joke, people who honestly suggest genocide as a solution deserve no respect or attention what so ever.
I mean, as much as I highly detest a few of !LordM!'s opinions and general rhetoric
He at least put forth a few practical solutions that does not involve the slaughtering of millions. Integration is the game we must play, not mass murder.[/QUOTE]
When did I ever say anything about genocide? Eradication =/= killing. I simply suggested we start to make a world-wide effort to get people away from religion since it's a major contributor to some of the things wrong in the world (i.e. jihad, the treating of women like dirt, the fanatical opposition of LGBT rights, women's rights to do what they want to their bodies, etc.) Religion is and always has been a way of controlling people under the guise of doing good and humans are at least somewhat inherently good without the aid of some bearded guy in the sky.
I love the assumption of extremism from anyone with an opinion different from your own here.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51308093]But how would a gender quota solve that issue? It wouldn't let in legit Syrian refugees and refuse opportunistic migrants, you would let the exact same proportions of refugees/migrants in while refusing a large chunk of actual refugees.[/QUOTE]
A skewered gender quota of 80/20 in the case of refugees shows that there are barely any families fleeing to Sweden. Most of them are single economic illegal immigrants, and some of them come as far as Bangladesh. Sweden has pretty much the reputation of having a totally gullible government who will take in anyone claiming to be a refugee, and there are enough people who are willing to abuse that, given how they have heard that Sweden gives free housing and money to them. And the gullibility of the current Swedish government is undeniable, as Sweden regularly puts refugees into classes with actual children because the immigrant/refugee claims to be 15 years old even when he looks at least 25 years old, because questioning the age of them is apparently racist in the eye of the current Swedish government.
[QUOTE=Jordax;51308351]A skewered gender quota of 80/20 in the case of refugees shows that there are barely any families fleeing to Sweden. Most of them are single economic illegal immigrants, and some of them come as far as Bangladesh. Sweden has pretty much the reputation of having a totally gullible government who will take in anyone claiming to be a refugee, and there are enough people who are willing to abuse that, given how they have heard that Sweden gives free housing and money to them. And the gullibility of the current Swedish government is undeniable, as Sweden regularly puts refugees into classes with actual children because the immigrant/refugee claims to be 15 years old even when he looks at least 25 years old, because questioning the age of them is apparently racist in the eye of the current Swedish government.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't answer my question.
[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;51308267]When did I ever say anything about genocide? Eradication =/= killing. I simply suggested we start to make a world-wide effort to get people away from religion since it's a major contributor to some of the things wrong in the world (i.e. jihad, the treating of women like dirt, the fanatical opposition of LGBT rights, women's rights to do what they want to their bodies, etc.) Religion is and always has been a way of controlling people under the guise of doing good and humans are at least somewhat inherently good without the aid of some bearded guy in the sky.
I love the assumption of extremism from anyone with an opinion different from your own here.[/QUOTE]
let's say this world-wide effort was made
so what would your plan be if people did not want move away from religion? mass incarceration instead? police have to come and suppress any religion in homes?
the nazis also tried to suppress religions
[QUOTE=Jordax;51308351]A skewered gender quota of 80/20 in the case of refugees shows that there are barely any families fleeing to Sweden. Most of them are single economic illegal immigrants, and some of them come as far as Bangladesh. Sweden has pretty much the reputation of having a totally gullible government who will take in anyone claiming to be a refugee, and there are enough people who are willing to abuse that, given how they have heard that Sweden gives free housing and money to them. And the gullibility of the current Swedish government is undeniable, as Sweden regularly puts refugees into classes with actual children because the immigrant/refugee claims to be 15 years old even when he looks at least 25 years old, because questioning the age of them is apparently racist in the eye of the current Swedish government.[/QUOTE]
Again, read what I said above. Many families send the men on the dangerous route in boats to try and secure safe passage for the rest of their families.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51308394]How about "people" isnt singular or in consensus
And the "people" you are talking about are ~wrong~
And their basis argument is that "Refugees=Crime and anything that doesnt support this narrative is a lie"
Any factual basis on [B]significant[/B] increase in crime due to [B]accepted [/B]refugees [B]outside of camps[/B]?[/QUOTE]
What kind of response is this
did you read my post
edit: look up speculation in a dictionary
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