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[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49483202]You called out the left wing earlier in the thread. Problem with your plan, much of which I agree with, is that none of the right wing parties appear to do anything more than maybe say "we need this instead of this" with no actual conviction to help the refugees in any way. Currently I have the choice between a left wing that has been naive or a right wing that literally doesn't give a shit about anyone.[/QUOTE] I called out the left wing not because I hate them or their ideals, but because they are legitimately naive and are willing to sacrifice the safety and prosperity of their own citizens to satisfy their giant bleeding hearts. They think they're doing the right thing, but they don't listen to people, and they don't think things through. Europe is, or was, more progressive than it's ever been, and if Europe becomes more nationalistic and xenophobic than it was, it is fully the result of the leftist parties who put their people in a situation in which they feel threatened. People really aren't that complicated when you can understand how motivations work, the simple understanding that people will revert to xenophobia when they feel threatened or attacked as has been evident throughout history, and throughout this crisis even, shows that the left has to hope that the trend of violence against their citizens caused by their policy stops, or it will damage progressive attitudes in Europe for a long time to come. I understand your frustration that the right wouldn't have done as much to help foreigners as the left. They would have left them in their own countries to stew and die under their own countries incompetence, and that's sad. But what has the left done? How many countries has the left helped to stabilize? All those problems these refugees are fleeing are still there. People are still dying in the middle east en masse, Africa is still a war torn shit hole. Now Europe is suffering, relations are straining, your progressives are falling silent. Europe in it's current state works because there is a common decency and understanding within your borders. I won't go so far as to say that I think Europe will destabilize and become another ideological battleground, your people understand one another too well for that to happen in my opinion. But it might not be far off to predict a sharp decline in your economic stability and the quality of life for everyone affected. This time a small tax increase isn't going to fix everything. And politically? The only people offering your people a solution that doesn't entail them cowering in fear is going to be a unified right finding itself with more support than it's had in decades and a very simple common goal. It won't happen immediately, these things take time, but the left has blundered themselves too far into this mess at this point and they'd have to completely change their attitudes if they wanted to save face and mitigate how hard your political pendulum is going to swing in the opposite direction in the next few years. People don't tend to realize how many people don't care what politicians do until it significantly negatively impacts their lives, the left is doing that now, which is the first mistake you can make when in power. How many of those women who were assaulted on new years do you think will vote left? How many of their family will? Or their relatives? They might not realize it yet but they're proving themselves incapable, or unwilling, to protect their own citizens from harm. The thing you have to realize is that any political power that doesn't serve the interests of it's own people first will inevitably lose their support when they become uncomfortable. Part of the reason I like how "uncivilized" you might say our country is, is that no one here gets comfortable. Any political party in the U.S. that didn't primarily serve our own people will be laughed out of the election. I fear that our country might be slowly changing, but with cartels harassing our southern border, our wildernesses, and the general vastness of our country and complexity of changing anything here politically, first world problems in other countries aren't the only problems we have here, making progress slow enough that it can be corrected in or before the next election cycle if it becomes an imminent threat. I mean at this point I'm just ranting about what I speculate for the future of Europe and political dynamics, it's really refreshing not having to argue with people who do nothing more than call my criticisms evidence of racism, but one of the points I wanted to bring up was that the right wouldn't have caused tension on this scale, they're selfish assholes but they're not stupid. This is only speculation but I predict not only would the right have protected Europe from your current problems, in the long run it would have kept your political spectrum in balance and your progressive lifestyles would be minimally diminished. People love to Bitch about the right being anti-progressive, but there's nothing more damaging to how progressive a society is than destroying their faith in other human beings to treat them as equals. In my view your politics became way too unbalanced, you didn't let the right have enough selfish-time to balance out or reign in the naive generosity and now Europe is going to suffer for it. From what I've seen, progress is best made in spite of the right, where your forced at least to conceded to keeping your citizens comfortable and safe, not by ignoring them and screaming "don't worry about it, mommy-merkel knows what's best!". I know this probably comes off with a side of crazy but I need to stop here because editing this on my phone is really becoming a chore. Edit: ahahaha that new thread holy shit.
[QUOTE=soulharvester;49483744]I called out the left wing not because I hate them or their ideals, but because they are legitimately naive and are willing to sacrifice the safety and prosperity of their own citizens to satisfy their giant bleeding hearts. They think they're doing the right thing, but they don't listen to people, and they don't think things through. Europe is, or was, more progressive than it's ever been, and if Europe becomes more nationalistic and xenophobic than it was, it is fully the result of the leftist parties who put their people in a situation in which they feel threatened. People really aren't that complicated when you can understand how motivations work, the simple understanding that people will revert to xenophobia when they feel threatened or attacked as has been evident throughout history, and throughout this crisis even, shows that the left has to hope that the trend of violence against their citizens caused by their policy stops, or it will damage progressive attitudes in Europe for a long time to come. I understand your frustration that the right wouldn't have done as much to help foreigners as the left. They would have left them in their own countries to stew and die under their own countries incompetence, and that's sad. But what has the left done? How many countries has the left helped to stabilize? All those problems these refugees are fleeing are still there. People are still dying in the middle east en masse, Africa is still a war torn shit hole. Now Europe is suffering, relations are straining, your progressives are falling silent. Europe in it's current state works because there is a common decency and understanding within your borders. I won't go so far as to say that I think Europe will destabilize and become another ideological battleground, your people understand one another too well for that to happen in my opinion. But it might not be far off to predict a sharp decline in your economic stability and the quality of life for everyone affected. This time a small tax increase isn't going to fix everything. And politically? The only people offering your people a solution that doesn't entail them cowering in fear is going to be a unified right finding itself with more support than it's had in decades and a very simple common goal. It won't happen immediately, these things take time, but the left has blundered themselves too far into this mess at this point and they'd have to completely change their attitudes if they wanted to save face and mitigate how hard your political pendulum is going to swing in the opposite direction in the next few years. People don't tend to realize how many people don't care what politicians do until it significantly negatively impacts their lives, the left is doing that now, which is the first mistake you can make when in power. How many of those women who were assaulted on new years do you think will vote left? How many of their family will? Or their relatives? They might not realize it yet but they're proving themselves incapable, or unwilling, to protect their own citizens from harm. The thing you have to realize is that any political power that doesn't serve the interests of it's own people first will inevitably lose their support when they become uncomfortable. Part of the reason I like how "uncivilized" you might say our country is, is that no one here gets comfortable. Any political party in the U.S. that didn't primarily serve our own people will be laughed out of the election. I fear that our country might be slowly changing, but with cartels harassing our southern border, our wildernesses, and the general vastness of our country and complexity of changing anything here politically, first world problems in other countries aren't the only problems we have here, making progress slow enough that it can be corrected in or before the next election cycle if it becomes an imminent threat. I mean at this point I'm just ranting about what I speculate for the future of Europe and political dynamics, it's really refreshing not having to argue with people who do nothing more than call my criticisms evidence of racism, but one of the points I wanted to bring up was that the right wouldn't have caused tension on this scale, they're selfish assholes but they're not stupid. This is only speculation but I predict not only would the right have protected Europe from your current problems, in the long run it would have kept your political spectrum in balance and your progressive lifestyles would be minimally diminished. People love to Bitch about the right being anti-progressive, but there's nothing more damaging to how progressive a society is than destroying their faith in other human beings to treat them as equals. In my view your politics became way too unbalanced, you didn't let the right have enough selfish-time to balance out or reign in the naive generosity and now Europe is going to suffer for it. From what I've seen, progress is best made in spite of the right, where your forced at least to conceded to keeping your citizens comfortable and safe, not by ignoring them and screaming "don't worry about it, mommy-merkel knows what's best!". I know this probably comes off with a side of crazy but I need to stop here because editing this on my phone is really becoming a chore. Edit: ahahaha that new thread holy shit.[/QUOTE] The problem is the right (here in Denmark), in the wake of the refugee crisis, did two things: They lowered our foreign aid, and gave what essentially amounts to tax breaks for rich people. They could do this basically because the right-most party was willing to make life worse for their own voterbase in order to help fewer brown people. They're no less naive than the left, they're just ideologically different. Also I think there's a bit of a narrative going on here. 100% of the population in Europe isn't disagreeing with the left (and the left isn't even in power here in Denmark, neither is it in the UK), and I wouldn't exactly call Merkel left-leaning. There are groups of people who are vehemently opposed to immigration here in Europe, but simply saying the politicians are totally going against the popular vote by allowing refugees to get in would (in my experience) be false. This poll is from October, but it's what I could find right now: [url]http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/oct/30/european-attitudes-towards-refugees-poll-eu[/url]
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