• California passes bill to license more drivers who are here illegally.
    114 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Valnar;42201633]Here is a nice infographic that gives a condensed overview of the immigration process for the USA. It is especially important for the people who say "immigrants should get in line" to look at this. [IMG]http://thumbnails.visually.netdna-cdn.com/what-part-of-legal-immigration-dont-you-understand_50290c8272a8d.jpg[/IMG] An important thing to note about it is if you are an unskilled worker, you are pretty much SOL for ever legally entering the United States.[/QUOTE] none of this changes the fact that an illegal immigrant is breaking the law, and as a non-citizen are entitled to none of the freedoms, liberties, privileges, or rights granted to us by our government.
not that bad but they should get registered I really hope they can speak and understand english though I've been in accidents where the other driver didn't even speak english and couldn't read any of the street signs (not mexican but still an immigrant)
Like I said, I'm having a hard time taking a stance on this. They do need to drive (they're going to drive with or without a license, at least with a license they will know rules, laws and such better) But on the other hand they are here ILLEGALLY and Driver's License is an ID we use for like everything, and if you're here illegally I really wouldn't want them to have the same benefits as someone who immigrated here legally (or is a citizen by birth and what not). We still should make it easier for people like that to immigrate though. That would be swell.
[QUOTE=Valnar;42201633]Here is a nice infographic that gives a condensed overview of the immigration process for the USA. It is especially important for the people who say "immigrants should get in line" to look at this. [IMG]http://thumbnails.visually.netdna-cdn.com/what-part-of-legal-immigration-dont-you-understand_50290c8272a8d.jpg[/IMG] An important thing to note about it is if you are an unskilled worker, you are pretty much SOL for ever legally entering the United States.[/QUOTE] Most of this "information" is exaggerated or blatantly falsified. Also, as often happens in this debate, you seem to be confusing entering the country with obtaining citizenship (a difference this "infographic" obfuscates). Getting citizenship is a complicated and time consuming process, as it should be, obtaining a visa to enter the country is a far easier process.
[QUOTE=Irkalla;42201822]none of this changes the fact that an illegal immigrant is breaking the law, and as a non-citizen are entitled to none of the freedoms, liberties, privileges, or rights granted to us by our government.[/QUOTE] That type of thinking is about as helpful towards solving immigration issues as the idea that draconian DRM is helpful to stopping piracy. It just doesn't change the reality of the situation that. 1. People who come into the US illegally are going to come and have been coming regardless of the laws. 2. People who come into the US illegally are contributing to the benefit of the US. 3. Businesses and the government exploit people who come into the US illegally. [QUOTE=asteroidrules;42201904]Most of this "information" is exaggerated or blatantly falsified. Also, as often happens in this debate, you seem to be confusing entering the country with obtaining citizenship. Getting citizenship is a complicated and time consuming process, as it should be, obtaining a visa to enter the country is a far easier process.[/QUOTE] Did you bother even looking at it? It makes clear distinctions between getting green cards/temporary visas/ and the actual citizenship itself. By the easy to obtain visas are you referring to tourist or buisness visa, both of which are temporary and wouldn't apply to unskilled workers. Would you please point out what is blatantly false?
[QUOTE=Irkalla;42201822]none of this changes the fact that an illegal immigrant is breaking the law, and as a non-citizen are entitled to none of the freedoms, liberties, privileges, or rights granted to us by our government.[/QUOTE] I'm not that fond of illegal immigration, but the government doesn't grant rights and freedoms to its citizens only. Human rights are rights of every human, regardless of citizenship. Privileges like voting, on the other hand, I agree with.
[QUOTE=Irkalla;42201822]none of this changes the fact that an illegal immigrant is breaking the law, and as a non-citizen are entitled to none of the freedoms, liberties, privileges, or rights granted to us by our government.[/QUOTE] You're pretty much saying that a huge problem isn't a problem at all. what...
[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;42200756]Please explain to me why you think people are entitled for US citizenship. Every country in this gay earth has a legal ways to become a citizen (in some cases it's almost impossible), why is the US the bad guy? Do you thinking having millions of unaccounted for illegal immigrants hurts or helps legal immigration? Oh and on the Brazilian citizenship. I wasn't implying it was easier, or that your country was inferior.[/QUOTE] I didn't say it should be easy. But you say it like it should be harder than other countries. Why exactly is that? I'm sure you'll say "no I didn't mean it like that", but you sure worded it like it. Immigrants are and have always been an important part of the US economy, even more so than other countries. The only reason America isn't having problems with the workforce like europe has is because of the immigrants. In America's case, they have a source of cheap labor next door, and they're not using it to the extent they could be. But obviously, the bigger problem is the human factor, the one you're completely ignoring. Yeah sure it's not the USA's fault that Mexico sucks, but you're not considering what you'd do if you were in any immigrant's place- most likely because you have no idea what that'd be like from what I see in your posts. [editline]15th September 2013[/editline] My point being, your arguments totally sound like you have tunnel vision and are only seeing the problem from one, close-minded point of view.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42203092]I'm not that fond of illegal immigration, but the government doesn't grant rights and freedoms to its citizens only. Human rights are rights of every human, regardless of citizenship. Privileges like voting, on the other hand, I agree with.[/QUOTE] so how long should someone live in a state before they are granted state citizenship(and be allowed to vote in state elections)?
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;42200786]gee thanks California for giving these fucking illegals even more reason to move here. Appreciate it. The ones that actually TRY to get citizenship are good guys and can understand their plights but it'll just attract some more of the scum that don't do shit all to come here and expect to be taken care of by the government.[/QUOTE] did i actually read this the people that apply are the very lucky ones because immigration to america is incredibly hard
[QUOTE=Irkalla;42201822]none of this changes the fact that an illegal immigrant is breaking the law, and as a non-citizen are entitled to none of the freedoms, liberties, privileges, or rights granted to us by our government.[/QUOTE] Who gives a shit where you were born? Humans should be allowed to live in whatever part of the world they damn well please.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42205792]so how long should someone live in a state before they are granted state citizenship(and be allowed to vote in state elections)?[/QUOTE] 6-10 years, maybe. So long as they have a clean record. Also maybe if they don't receive any welfare aid during that time as well. It shouldn't be extremely quick, move down and then start voting. By state, I'm assuming you mean the political unit as a whole and not individual states of the US, right?
[QUOTE=Irkalla;42201822]none of this changes the fact that an illegal immigrant is breaking the law, and as a non-citizen are entitled to none of the freedoms, liberties, privileges, or rights granted to us by our government.[/QUOTE] yeah laws are always 100% morally and technically upgright just because they're laws, we should do everything our precious government tells us! [editline]15th September 2013[/editline] if you make a bullshit law and application like is the process with immigration, no shit people are going to break it.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42205854]Who gives a shit where you were born? Humans should be allowed to live in whatever part of the world they damn well please.[/QUOTE] They are. They just need to abide by the legal processes to do so. Why is that so hard to understand? Yeah, the US immigration process is shit and needs a heavy refitting, but that alone shouldn't mean we have open borders.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42205855]6-10 years, maybe. So long as they have a clean record. Also maybe if they don't receive any welfare aid during that time as well. It shouldn't be extremely quick, move down and then start voting. By state, I'm assuming you mean the political unit as a whole and not individual states of the US, right?[/QUOTE] no i mean individual states in the usa. like if i went from texas to colorado. hell, how long should it take to get city citizenship?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42205912]no i mean individual states in the usa. like if i went from texas to colorado. hell, how long should it take to get city citizenship?[/QUOTE] There's no such thing as state citizenship. There's US citizenship and that's it. How do you live here and not know that? If you're already an American citizen, I believe you can start voting 6 months after you've moved into your new home.
if illegals don't pay taxes but they can drive, essentially they're taking advantage of roads tax without actually paying for it based on that principle alone i'm against this
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42206050]There's no such thing as state citizenship. There's US citizenship and that's it. How do you live here and not know that? If you're already an American citizen, I believe you can start voting 6 months after you've moved into your new home.[/QUOTE] so why shouldn't it be the same for someone who comes from mexico? live in the country for 6 months and you can vote. [editline]15th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=FFStudios;42206080]if illegals don't pay taxes but they can drive, essentially they're taking advantage of roads tax without actually paying for it based on that principle alone i'm against this[/QUOTE] they do pay taxes.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42205878]They are. They just need to abide by the legal processes to do so. Why is that so hard to understand? Yeah, the US immigration process is shit and needs a heavy refitting, but that alone shouldn't mean we have open borders.[/QUOTE] What's wrong with open borders?
[QUOTE=FFStudios;42206080]if illegals don't pay taxes but they can drive, essentially they're taking advantage of roads tax without actually paying for it based on that principle alone i'm against this[/QUOTE] Funny thing as both mentioned and also linked to in a previous thread regarding this, they often DO pay taxes. In order to make their faux work papers look more authentic.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;42201663]There are less problems now, but at some point our government was being sued because there literally wasn't enough money for the OCMW (our social services) to hand out to everyone who needed it.[/QUOTE] link me to something about this, i can read dutch
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