Judge: Americans can be forced to decrypt their hard disks at FBI's request
100 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ridge;34379901]They work for you. You can tell them whatever you want.
[editline]24th January 2012[/editline]
Bullshit. Encryption protects you from identity theft if your laptop is lost or stolen. Just about every business that uses laptops will have encryption on it, to protect their data from thieves and the competition.[/QUOTE]
And that's great and wonderful. For the majority of the people who use encryption to safeguard their data if it's lost or stolen. But if a federal judge signs off on a search warrant for said data, though.... it isn't right to say "sorry officer it's encrypted! deal :downs:"
I can see what you're saying, but this doesn't magically give the federal government the right to barge into any American's home, tie them up, and force them to reveal their encryption key. A court order must be obtained through due process.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34379993]SPESS, when both me and Ridge disagree with something you say it's pretty obvious you're not on the left or the right wing, you've just fallen off the plane completely
lol, the "if you got nothing to hide then this won't matter" argument is the sure sign of stupidity[/QUOTE]
Way to ignore the rest of the post. As usual your posts have little argumentative content, and merely rely on personal attacks to dismiss my statements.
Come up with a better rebuttal than "you disagree with me, your stupid."
thank god, any criminal scumbag felon who forgets their password deserves to rot in prison waiting for the chair
this is why we need to bring the firing squad back
5th Amendment, asshole. Whether or not you [i]feel[/i] or [i]think[/i] that it doesn't encompass data encryption, it does, and you can take your bullshit opinion and shove it up your puckered republican ass.
I hate judges. And courts. And the police. What the fuck happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"?
Our founding fathers must be fucking disco dancing in their graves.
Here in the UK if the police want you to decrypt a drive and you refuse you'll just get done in for perverting the course of justice / obstructing an investigation which is normally just as serious
I never knew you could even decrypt a harddrive, let a lone how do.
[quote]Public interests will be harmed absent requiring defendants to make available unencrypted contents in circumstances like these. Failing to compel Ms. Fricosu amounts to a concession to her and potential criminals (be it in child exploitation, national security, terrorism, financial crimes or drug trafficking cases) that encrypting all inculpatory digital evidence will serve to defeat the [b]efforts of law enforcement officers to obtain such evidence through judicially authorized search warrants,[/b] and thus make their prosecution impossible.[/quote]
I'm fine with this. It's just closing a loophole that lets people get out of perfectly lawful search warrants, and any orders to decrypt the drive will be backed by due process. It's not like they're letting the feds kick your door in and hold you at gunpoint until you decrypt your porn stash or anything.
I'd have issue with it if it allowed such things to happen warrantless, but based on what I see in the source, that isn't the case.
[editline]24th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;34380350]5th Amendment, asshole. Whether or not you [i]feel[/i] or [i]think[/i] that it doesn't encompass data encryption, it does, and you can take your bullshit opinion and shove it up your puckered republican ass.
I hate judges. And courts. And the police. What the fuck happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"?
Our founding fathers must be fucking disco dancing in their graves.[/QUOTE]
Read the source. This is just forcing people to comply with search warrants. There is no fifth amendment violation here, they already have a warrant to search that drive and this just makes sure they can do so.
Wait until they authorize it for warrantless searches to bring out your "FUCK DA POLICE" diatribe, k?
oh god the police can get warrants to search hard drives AMERICA IS LITERALLY WORSE THAN NAZI GERMANY
[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;34380219]And that's great and wonderful. For the majority of the people who use encryption to safeguard their data if it's lost or stolen. But if a federal judge signs off on a search warrant for said data, though.... it isn't right to say "sorry officer it's encrypted! deal :downs:"
I can see what you're saying, but this doesn't magically give the federal government the right to barge into any American's home, tie them up, and force them to reveal their encryption key. A court order must be obtained through due process.
Way to ignore the rest of the post. As usual your posts have little argumentative content, and more personally insulting remarks.
Come up with a better rebuttal than "you disagree with me, your stupid."[/QUOTE]
This whole "if you have to hide it, you're guilty" thing is dumb. It flies in the face of "innocent before proven guilty". It makes a huge assumption that having something to hide is being a criminal, that's bullshit. It's a leap that you'd only make on a paranoid guess. If you have other evidence pinning this person to something then it's more reasonable but that's not always the case. This is permission to search without reason because you and people like minded are likening "hiding" with "guilty". That's a fucking terrible idea.
[quote]American citizens can be ordered to decrypt their [B]PGP-scrambled[/B] hard drives for police to peruse for incriminating files, a federal judge in Colorado ruled today in what could become a precedent-setting case. [/quote]
AES.
Because, fuck you. :v:
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;34380515]This whole "if you have to hide it, you're guilty" thing is dumb. It flies in the face of "innocent before proven guilty". It makes a huge assumption that having something to hide is being a criminal, that's bullshit. It's a leap that you'd only make on a paranoid guess. If you have other evidence pinning this person to something then it's more reasonable but that's not always the case. This is permission to search without reason because you and people like minded are likening "hiding" with "guilty". That's a fucking terrible idea.[/QUOTE]
Alright, that one sentence was poorly worded. But that isn't even the issue at the heart of this case. If you read the actual court document, there was reasonable evidence to suggest that there was data on that hard drive (a transcript of a phone call in which the woman goes on about how she hopes they "don't find it") and a search warrant for said data was executed. The woman refused.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34379691]The only problem with having your main decrypted volume hidden is that you have to continually maintain and use your decoy one or the authorities will wonder why your main PC is just a clean install of Windows that hasn't been used in 6 months.
[editline]24th January 2012[/editline]
It's your duty as a citizen to tell the police exactly that when they're violating your rights.[/QUOTE]
Then you still get punished because the "official" interpretation of your rights is different.
Even though we supposedly have the rights to tell our government that they're wrong, it doesn't do shit. They ignore us and keep going. It would build up to violence, and then revolution.
Except we don't have the power of the U.S. Military.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;34380559]Then you still get punished because the "official" interpretation of your rights is different.
Even though we supposedly have the rights to tell our government that they're wrong, it doesn't do shit. They ignore us and keep going. It would build up to violence, and then revolution.
Except we don't have the power of the U.S. Military.[/QUOTE]
yes yes captain neckbeard lead the revolution!
i'll be right behind you
i promise
Oh, you want my hard drive? Okay!
Whoops, I accidentally slipped in my DBAN disc. Have fun!
[url]www.dban.org[/url]
This is a really interesting case and will probably end up at the Supreme Court or another case like it. As far as the 5th Amendment goes, you as a citizen do not have to do anything you think will incriminate yourself. If you had illegal material on a computer that was encrypted, you can not be forced to reveal the illegal files if you feel you will be incriminated by it. This judge is wrong. However, as we use computers more, more crimes will be committed with computers, many of which are encrypted and are virtually unbreakable. Later courts may rule it's in the public interest to allow an exception for encrypted computers.
Just brute force the password.
[QUOTE=The one that is;34380684]Just brute force the password.[/QUOTE]
Bruteforcing 34 characters?
Haha. Good luck with that.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5BkPB.png[/IMG]
> Finds out that the FBI is coming for me.
> Furiously rips drives out and hides them out of site.
> Replaces drives with dead hard drives from 2001.
> FBI takes computer with dead drives.
> Gets off scott free
> You mad FBI?
[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;34379242]Like others had mentioned, how could they prove you know the password? I've honestly encrypted shit before using truecrypt (or whatever it's called) and forgot the password before. I'd say they would have to prove beyond a doubt that you know the password.[/QUOTE]
In the UK if you refuse to give up passwords (be it encryption or otherwise) you get charged with a seperate offence. There is no room for "I forgot. The way it works here opens up for people to refuse to give up passwords when accused of more serious crimes and dealing with the lesser serious charge of failing to give up passwords.
Also [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubberhose_%28file_system%29[/url]
Gotta love the fact that Julian Assange is paranoid as hell.
[QUOTE=Jin;34380637]Oh, you want my hard drive? Okay!
Whoops, I accidentally slipped in my DBAN disc. Have fun!
[url]www.dban.org[/url][/QUOTE]
Yeah, that won't work on the FBI. There are methods of retrieving data that you've deleted, even in the case that its actually completely written over.
[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;34380539]Alright, that one sentence was poorly worded. But that isn't even the issue at the heart of this case. If you read the actual court document, there was reasonable evidence to suggest that there was data on that hard drive (a transcript of a phone call in which the woman goes on about how she hopes they "don't find it") and a search warrant for said data was executed. The woman refused.[/QUOTE]
they can search all they want, but they can't force a person to incriminate themself because it's fucking illegal
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;34380773]Yeah, that won't work on the FBI. There are methods of retrieving data that you've deleted, even in the case that its actually completely written over.[/QUOTE]
Like?
[QUOTE=Ryukrawr?;34380754]> Finds out that the FBI is coming for me.
> Furiously rips drives out and hides them out of site.
> Replaces drives with dead hard drives from 2001.
> FBI takes computer with dead drives.
> Gets off scott free
> You mad FBI?[/QUOTE]
lol hi guys. Ryukrawr here. I literally have no idea how things work in reality.
bye
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;34380773]Yeah, that won't work on the FBI. There are methods of retrieving data that you've deleted, even in the case that its actually completely written over.[/QUOTE]
No, things normally deleted through recycle bin in windows still remain on the hard drive, but is recognized as unused memory. DBAN writes over every byte on the hard drive with 0s.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;34381148][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_forensic_process#Analysis[/url][/QUOTE]
Can you read?
[quote]On most media types including standard magnetic hard disks, once data has been securely deleted it can never be recovered.[8][9] SSD Drives are specifically of interest from a forensics viewpoint, because even after a secure-erase operation some of the data that was intended to be secure-erased persists on the drive. [10][/quote]
[QUOTE=Nexus435;34381179]No, things normally deleted through recycle bin in windows still remain on the hard drive, but is recognized as unused memory. DBAN writes over every byte on the hard drive with 0s.
Can you read?[/QUOTE]
There is still a method to read what each and every bit used to be. Although to be fair the method isn't used because it would take forever and on newer HDDs its even harder to read what used to be there. It would also be expensive as fuck.
[url]http://www.whitecanyon.com/newsletter-hard-drive-erase-multiple-overwrites.php[/url]
[QUOTE=Nexus435;34381179]No, things normally deleted through recycle bin in windows still remain on the hard drive, but is recognized as unused memory. DBAN writes over every byte on the hard drive with 0s.
Can you read?[/QUOTE]
Not only that, it goes back and writes to back to 1s then to 0s again. If I recall correctly, that is counted as three passes; and that's the quickest option. The more advanced options do even more passes.
I just recall wiping drives for the police department I worked at; we were selling old equipment and wanted to make sure the drives on the tough-books were fit for auction. We used DBAN to do just that.
[QUOTE=Nexus435;34381179]No, things normally deleted through recycle bin in windows still remain on the hard drive, but is recognized as unused memory. DBAN writes over every byte on the hard drive with 0s.[/QUOTE]
Pfft. a bootdisk.
Any linux OS can do this natively. You can pick any storage medium and rewrite any disk sector with any bit you choose. Take one file and paste it on another, make it write 0s, 1s, something random, anything.
Guttmann 35-pass is the method the US government uses to delete data [I]for a reason.[/I]
"Um, sorry. Since you guys we're physically abusing me, I forgot that 500 character passphrase..."
I don't see where all the outrage against this is coming from, I think the wording is a little too broad but as long as it requires a warrant how is it different from getting your house searched (after a warrant is produced)?
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