Canada votes for Liberal govt; marijuana legalization
95 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;48944108]so what are they going to buy instead? planes that are already outdated? chinese planes?[/QUOTE]
Advanced F15, Israel will probably get on board. Either way you adopt a already outdated fighter jet the "Arrow" to last decades or go to the drawing board and waste even more money and time.
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;48944456]
Why go to the F-35 and just take a late generation fighter like the F-22? Its already a proven and relatively recent design.[/QUOTE]
Because we won't sell them to anyone else, you can thank Israel for that one.
Maybe they could revive the YF-23? That was a pretty badass looking plane.
[QUOTE=Saxon;48946326]Advanced F15, Israel will probably get on board. Either way you adopt a already[B] outdated fighter jet the "Arrow"[/B] to last decades or go to the drawing board and waste even more money and time.[/QUOTE]
Hey, thems fightin words buddy. Obviously yeah, the original Avro Arrow is outdated by today's standards but when they were making it it was one of if not THE most advanced Interceptor ever built. I firmly believe that if the basic design was kept the same but with updated armaments and engines and shit it would make for a decent domestic defense plane that would suit our needs well.
Avro Arrow for life!
[QUOTE=Jame's;48944091]I wouldn't place much hope on marijuana being legalised.[/QUOTE]
Not sure why you say this, it's of pretty popular opinion here in Canada, at least, as far as I know it is.
Coupled with the Liberals majority I have my fingers crossed
How long does it take for the new dude to become PM in Canada? I assumed it would be instant like in the UK
[QUOTE=smurfy;48947767]How long does it take for the new dude to become PM in Canada? I assumed it would be instant like in the UK[/QUOTE]
On average the transition takes about two weeks.
Also ITN: Canada's pulling out of war on ISIL.
[QUOTE]OTTAWA — Justin Trudeau, Canada’s newest prime minister-designate, says he will announce his cabinet on Nov. 4.
Trudeau says he wants to name a cabinet as quickly as possible and that the group — while reflecting his promise of gender equity — will be smaller than has been the case in recent years.
In his first post-election news conference, Trudeau says he will stick to his campaign promises, although they will be introduced in a responsible manner.
The Liberal leader says he has already had a warm conversation with U.S. President Barack Obama.
He says they discussed Canada’s participation in the air war against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
Trudeau has promised to withdraw from the bombing mission and he says Obama understands the commitments he has made to Canadians.
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/justin-trudeau-says-he-told-obama-he-will-pull-out-of-air-war-against-isil-and-obamas-ok-with-it[/url]
so how will Marijuana become legal how will it sell I wonder if it will be treated like beer and tobacco
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=isreal?;48947776]On average the transition takes about two weeks.[/QUOTE]
so that's when Marijuana will become legal.
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;48947784]so how will Marijuana become legal how will it sell I wonder if it will be treated like beer and tobacco
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
so that's when Marijuana will become legal.[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming it will be treated exactly like Alcohol when it is legal.
Not in public, not in your car, etc.
I'd like to think they'd allow public smoking. But as long as you can be high in public I could deal.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;48944284]Haha what?
The Eurofighter, Rafale and Super Hornet are all more than good enough for Canada and way cheaper than the F-35.[/QUOTE]
So you have the fifth generation F35A that starts at the US$98m mark sans engine, the late fourth-generation Eurofighter Typhoon cost the UK US$190m each, while France offered to sell India the fourth-generation Dassault Rafale for US$220m each.
While the Superhornet may only be ~US$70m each, it's an early fourth generation aircraft and simply isn't in the game.
I don't see how that's cheaper than the F35.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;48944345]Can you tell me why we need an over-budget and late Stealth fighter? Are the moose in the Rockies and the prairie dogs in Saskatchewan mobilizing to take over the government and they've got advanced radar tech?
[/QUOTE]
While the F35 can be criticized for a lot of things including being over budged, it's still the best multi-role fighter/attack aircraft around that's actually for sale and is cheaper than far more obsolete aircraft.
[QUOTE=Jon27;48944406]Oh dear... Canada pulls out of F-35, probably either kills the project (as Britain will no longer be able to afford the higher unit price, then it cascades through all the other buyers) or makes the US very, very broke (as the US takes up the slack to keep the project running).[/QUOTE]
They're building almost 5000 F35s. Canada pulling out will cost everyone else a bit more but it won't be a deathnell for the project this late in the game.
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;48944456]Cancelling the F-35 will give a metric shit tonne of budget for Canada, worthwhile considering the other plans they have in order for the refugee crisis, etc.
Why go to the F-35 and just take a late generation fighter like the F-22? Its already a proven and relatively recent design.[/QUOTE]
The Americans aren't selling the F22 and its cost is significantly higher than the F35's at US$140 [I]at the very end of the production run[/I]. The overall lifetime cost averaged over the entire production run is in the US$700m range each.
[QUOTE=pentium;48944529]Is this the Cold War? Aside from them occasionally taking to the sea to go after the North Pole they aren't really a threat. We've had more to fear about their ICBM's passing over us on their way to glass over the States.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;48945460]
Lets get real, if Russia all out attacked Canada, these few dozen F-35s Canada might afford wouldn't last a day. Most of them probably wouldn't ever get to take off.
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
And you don't need the latest gen jet for airspace harassment/dickwaving needs.[/QUOTE]
Canada has an obligation to the collective defense of NATO. And while by itself Canada has no hope against the Russians, as a collective they do.
[QUOTE=download;48947970]So you have the fifth generation F35A that starts at the US$98m mark sans engine, the late fourth-generation Eurofighter Typhoon cost the UK US$190m each, while France offered to sell India the fourth-generation Dassault Rafale for US$220m each.
While the Superhornet may only be ~US$70m each, it's an early fourth generation aircraft and simply isn't in the game.
[/QUOTE]
Sources on those numbers please. I'm fairly sure that those numbers are mixed up on whether or not they include logistics and support services.
Also, the Canada does what it wants bitches.
[QUOTE=download;48947970]So you have the fifth generation F35A that starts at the US$98m mark sans engine[/QUOTE]
Sounds like a useful feature for a fuckin plane. "Here's our new plane*"
*engine sold separately
We have ZERO need for the F-35 that cannot be filled by a cheaper plane and the only thing we really lose is the stealth feature.
I'm excited about the opportunities that Trudeau's cannabis policy presents, it means a lot more jobs in big Cannabis. That could mean that while BC is leading the countries economy, we could get a huge economic boost from weed.
Once canada goes full legalization, its going to be quicker for other nations to follow.
[QUOTE=isreal?;48948160]I'm excited about the opportunities that Trudeau's cannabis policy presents, it means a lot more jobs in big Cannabis. That could mean that while BC is leading the countries economy, we could get a huge economic boost from weed.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm very excited to see how everything goes.
[QUOTE=download;48944036]I was going to make a witty comment about guns and boating accidents but damn, they're actually going to dump the F35.
That sounds like a really bad idea given all of the F35's competitors are more expensive and less capable.[/QUOTE]
we don't need to spend 44 billion fucking dollars on [i]more[/i] jets
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;48948175]Once canada goes full legalization, its going to be quicker for other nations to follow.[/QUOTE]
Well one would hope.
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=hybrid_theory;48948183]we don't need to spend 44 billion fucking dollars on [i]more[/i] jets[/QUOTE]
No but we DO need to replace our old as fuck current ones. Lots of shit in our military is old as hell and don't even get me started on those second-hand subs the swindling Brits sold us(even though it was half our governments fault for finalizing the deal). We may as well have bought 4 Subway subs for all the good they've done us.
[QUOTE=isreal?;48948098]Sources on those numbers please. I'm fairly sure that those numbers are mixed up on whether or not they include logistics and support services.
Also, the Canada does what it wants bitches.[/QUOTE]
[url=https://www.f35.com/about/fast-facts/cost]F35A sans engine Low Initial Production Rate cost - US$98m[/url]
It's difficult to find hard numbers on the Typhoon but it cost the Spanish 11.7b Euros for 73 aircraft or 160m Euros each and the UK paid 37b Pounds for 160 aircraft or 230m Pounds each. I assume that's an aircraft with engines plus a spare set at those prices. Numbers are from the Wikipedia page. I can't be bothered going any deeper than that.
France was/is in negotiation with India to sell them [url=http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/france-offers-25-discount-to-india-on-purchase-of-36-rafale-jets/articleshow/47168431.cms]36 Rafales[/url] to them for US$8b. That comes in at $222m per aircraft and apparently includes spare engines and building maintenance facilities for the aircraft.
I'm not going to lie, pricing these things is difficult at best.
If we ABSOLUTELY(and I mean if we have no other other choice) must get the F-35 they we should get less of them. Why do we need 65 of them? Are we planning on invading Alaska? Like I know we're a big country but any of the other nations in the world that have the capability of invading us isn't gonna back off because of 65 F-35's.
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
Just gonna leave this article here as well. Make of it what you will.
[url]http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/michael-byers-the-f-35-is-now-unaffordable-thanks-to-the-low-canadian-dollar[/url]
The only threat we face right now is terrorism. I don't see why we need expensive jets when we could spend that money on police.
[QUOTE=isreal?;48948266]The only threat we face right now is terrorism. I don't see why we need expensive jets when we could spend that money on police.[/QUOTE]
I agree but I personally believe that we should at least be replacing our military equipment that has reached its End of Life, within reason of course.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;48948303]I agree but I personally believe that we should at least be replacing our military equipment that has reached its End of Life, within reason of course.[/QUOTE]
Of course, but I mean we don't even have attack helicopters. Wouldn't it make sense to diversify our military instead of focusing on jets? Our military needs help as a whole.
[QUOTE=isreal?;48948311]Of course, but I mean we don't even have attack helicopters. Wouldn't it make sense to diversify our military instead of focusing on jets? Our military needs help as a whole.[/QUOTE]
Oh definitely but our government as a whole seems to be totally incompetent when it comes to our military needs. They can't even replace basic fucking helicopters without it dragging on for decades and costing us more money than they said it would. Just look at the whole Sea King fiasco. I hope this new government marks a new chapter in providing for our military.
I will say this though, our military may use old shit but they use it bloody well and we've gotten our bang for our buck with the stuff we do have imo.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;48948189]Well one would hope.
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
No but we DO need to replace our old as fuck current ones. Lots of shit in our military is old as hell and don't even get me started on those second-hand subs the swindling Brits sold us(even though it was half our governments fault for finalizing the deal). We may as well have bought 4 Subway subs for all the good they've done us.[/QUOTE]
Priorities, friend. We need to make up for those bullshit science cuts, basically obliterated fisheries, and militarily-wise our Navy is in the shitter, we only have 30 vessels total and everyone is quitting. We also need to start refining our own resources, and reopen the coal mines. Atlantic Canada is basically fucked. A couple F35s aren't going to help us, especially considering their cost.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;48948189]
No but we DO need to replace our old as fuck current ones. Lots of shit in our military is old as hell and don't even get me started on those second-hand subs the swindling Brits sold us(even though it was half our governments fault for finalizing the deal). We may as well have bought 4 Subway subs for all the good they've done us.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, you guys really did get swindled on the Oberons. Australia got rid of those in the 90s.
From the perspective of your military being utterly fucked in other areas it may be a good idea to look at other military areas first.
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
Defense procurement is fucked in nearly every Western country and has been since the F-111 program started.
[QUOTE=hybrid_theory;48948351]Priorities, friend. We need to make up for those bullshit science cuts, basically obliterated fisheries, and militarily-wise our Navy is in the shitter, we only have 30 vessels total and everyone is quitting. We also need to start refining our own resources, and reopen the coal mines. Atlantic Canada is basically fucked. A couple F35s aren't going to help us, especially considering their cost.[/QUOTE]
Trust me, I don't want the F-35's any more than you do and those are all things that are very important but the longer we wait on replacing our old military hardware the more money we waste on maintaining them. I wouldn't be too chuffed if we pushed off on replacing them at little longer but it should still happen within a couple years imo.
[QUOTE=Jame's;48944091]I wouldn't place much hope on marijuana being legalised.[/QUOTE]
uh, well, when states in the US which have adopted it, aka Colorado, Oregon, are seeing good results from lower crime, increased tax profits, I see why Trudeau would consider such a proposition.
Plus, if it goes beyond just Recreational use, and allows for industrial and medicinal use of Marijuana, I believe there could be a massive win-fall economically for Trudeau. As there are many uses for Marijuana, look back not even 100 years when it was being used in all sorts of industries incl. fabrics, food, construction, oil (can even synthesise syncrude for vehicle use) or even can be formed into a type of sturdy plastic (one which Ford (car maker) even built a car out of Marijuana oil, ran on marijuana oil, even the seats & wheels were made out of it), medicine (as it has for thousands of years before the so called "war on drugs brought in during the prohibitionist era and continued from thereon). Plus it also helps him fulfil his main platform of the election, which is to lower taxes for the middle class & maintaining a deficit for 3 years to build infrastructure using tax money gained from pursuing this policy.
On the subject of the F-35, I believe the RCAF may already be starting to draw up competitions to replace the F/A-18 A/B/C's (which are the current mainstay of their fighter / multirole component) and already have a fair few suitable choices (including the Eurofighter Typhoon, Boeing (historically McDonnell Douglas) F/A-18 E/F, the General Dynamics F-16 (if they even want to restart the production line), designing their own aircraft (probably built in Canada, most likely by Bombardier) or even considering the old redesign of the F-5 (which the RCAF still uses) aka the F-20 Tigershark.
I think many have been waiting for Trudeau to step up (after 2011 I assume). Canadians wanted change, and they got it. (hopefully)
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;48948401]Trust me, I don't want the F-35's any more than you do and those are all things that are very important but the longer we wait on replacing our old military hardware the more money we waste on maintaining them. I wouldn't be too chuffed if we pushed off on replacing them at little longer but it should still happen within a couple years imo.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough.
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=shutter_eye5;48948446]uh, well, when states in the US which have adopted it, aka Colorado, Oregon, are seeing good results from lower crime, increased tax profits, I see why Trudeau would consider such a proposition.
Plus, if it goes beyond just Recreational use, and allows for industrial and medicinal use of Marijuana, I believe there could be a massive win-fall economically for Trudeau. As there are many uses for Marijuana, look back not even 100 years when it was being used in all sorts of industries incl. fabrics, food, construction, oil (can even synthesise syncrude for vehicle use) or even can be formed into a type of sturdy plastic (one which Ford (car maker) even built a car out of Marijuana oil, ran on marijuana oil, even the seats & wheels were made out of it), medicine (as it has for thousands of years before the so called "war on drugs brought in during the prohibitionist era and continued from thereon). Plus it also helps him fulfil his main platform of the election, which is to lower taxes for the middle class & maintaining a deficit for 3 years to build infrastructure using tax money gained from pursuing this policy.
On the subject of the F-35, I believe the RCAF may already be starting to draw up competitions to replace the F/A-18 A/B/C's (which are the current mainstay of their fighter / multirole component) and already have a fair few suitable choices (including the Eurofighter Typhoon, Boeing (historically McDonnell Douglas) F/A-18 E/F, the General Dynamics F-16 (if they even want to restart the production line), designing their own aircraft (probably built in Canada, most likely by Bombardier) or even considering the old redesign of the F-5 (which the RCAF still uses) aka the F-20 Tigershark.
I think many have been waiting for Trudeau to step up (after 2011 I assume). Canadians wanted change, and they got it. (hopefully)[/QUOTE]
It will be great not having to rely on synthesized cannabis that gives people seizures too
[url]http://www.capx.co/10-thoughts-on-canadas-election-today/[/url]
A couple of good points:
[QUOTE]Harper didn’t quit while ahead: If a change of prime minister occurs today it will confirm what is becoming a golden rule of politics: a decade in office is enough. A much mocked Globe and Mail leader captured the national mood. Vote for the Conservatives, it argued, but not for Harper. By three to one, voters have told pollsters they wanted change in this election and only a new Tory leader would have given the Canadian Conservatives the possibility of offering that change. Stephen Harper joins Margaret Thatcher, Helmut Kohl and John Howard as successful politicians who did not quite realise that their sell by dates had passed. Long-running leaders simply develop too many enemies (inside their parties and without), they rack up their share of scandals and get a little too close to certain vested interests (oil and gas in Mr Harper’s case).[/QUOTE]
I don't know whether leaders can actually last more than a decade in practice. The third election/past 10 years seems to be the death of most except in the most positive of all circumstances.
[QUOTE]An unhappy conservative coalition: After Harper the conservative coalition will be severely tested. Harper has run the strictest of regimes – controlling the interaction that MPs and officials have with the media and punishing any person who speaks too freely or independently. Libertarians feel Harper was too willing to use government programmes and spending as pork to win votes. Some social conservatives felt frustrated that he never attempted to amend the Canadian consensus on gay rights, abortion or capital punishment – although he did, however, introduce a variety of pro-family policies, including income splitting. Whoever follows Harper as Tory leader will have to rebuild the conservative coalition again.[/QUOTE]
Canadian politics seems to me (as an outsider) to be complete chaos, and this seems to be the main problem. To win, you need to build coalitions of groups who often repel each other (like in all democracies). Unlike other democracies, they seem to often collapse in spectacular fashion leading to absurd swings in seats between elections.
[QUOTE]Is the BoreCon era drawing to a close?: One thing that won’t rule any more is what I’ve described as Boringsville Conservatism. The BoreCons have ruled much of the West since the global recession struck with their judicious mix of gentle deficit reduction, restrained public spending, welfare reform and cautious environmentalism. Harper was the ultimate BoreCon. Tony Abbott in Australia was another. Both are now gone or going. Britain’s general election result suggests voters are still relatively cautious and Justin Trudeau’s platform could hardly be described as revolutionary but times do seem to be moving on. Voters may be increasingly ready for something a little more radical now that the immediate economic danger has passed. As the Canadian Conservatives consider their future don’t be surprised if they choose someone more like David Cameron or Malcolm Turnbull. Someone less socially conservative, more focused on social justice issues and a little bit greener. Less vanilla, more pistachio.[/QUOTE]
Abbott and Harper seemed to me to be almost clones of each other. David Cameron was only slightly different (this writer is biased as a fairly big fan of Cameron). The rejection of traditional parties across the western world seems to be in response to how boring and uninspiring the 'borecons' are. I mean, in Britain, the Conservatives just won an election off of slogans like 'long term economic plan' and that 'Labour failed to fix the roof whilst the sun was shining'. People are sick of it and want something that can inspire them in spite of all of the doom and depressing shit hitting us lately.
Congratulations and good luck to Trudeau for winning a resounding mandate from what seemed like a very close race and in spite of differential turnout and a divided left.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;48948189]Well one would hope.
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
No but we DO need to replace our old as fuck current ones. Lots of shit in our military is old as hell and don't even get me started on those second-hand subs the swindling Brits sold us(even though it was half our governments fault for finalizing the deal). We may as well have bought 4 Subway subs for all the good they've done us.[/QUOTE]
Hardly a swindling. The boats had been retired and in storage for a decade without receiving any maintenance. Why do you think the subs were sold so cheaply? What do you think Canada expected to get? Canada decided they wanted them and they paid pennies for them due to the poor condition of the boats, not because they performed miracles at the negotiation table.
[QUOTE=RVFHarrier;48948617]Hardly a swindling. The boats had been retired and in storage for a decade without receiving any maintenance. Why do you think the subs were sold so cheaply? What do you think Canada expected to get? Canada decided they wanted them and they paid pennies for them due to the poor condition of the boats, not because they performed miracles at the negotiation table.[/QUOTE]
Ya fucked us, not that we didn't make it hard.
[url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/used-subs-a-daft-deal-for-canada-u-k-mp-says-1.1166047[/url]
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