Canada votes for Liberal govt; marijuana legalization
95 replies, posted
[QUOTE=download;48947970]So you have the fifth generation F35A that starts at the US$98m mark sans engine, the late fourth-generation Eurofighter Typhoon cost the UK US$190m each, while France offered to sell India the fourth-generation Dassault Rafale for US$220m each.
While the Superhornet may only be ~US$70m each, it's an early fourth generation aircraft and simply isn't in the game.
I don't see how that's cheaper than the F35.
[/QUOTE]
Be careful not to include developmental costs in those numbers, or "extras" such as weapon packages and such. Looking around for some flyaway costs (US prices)
F-35A ~115-130 million
Rafale ~ 90-100 million
F-18 Superhornet ~65-80 million
Eurofighter ~100-120 million
It's hard to pin down the exact prices due to the way the prices are listed and what they include. Some of the numbers are a few years old now and don't take into account other factors.
I though they were buying the F-35 A and C, not the B variant.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;48944284]Haha what?
The Eurofighter, Rafale and Super Hornet are all more than good enough for Canada and way cheaper than the F-35.[/QUOTE]
Way cheaper? The Eurofighter is only about 20 mil cheaper and the others are about 30-40. Considering how much more advanced the F-35A and the F-35C are and are comparatively slightly more expensive, it'd just make more sense to use the F-35.
On the pot topic: even if they legalize it federally it'll be a while before people in certain (cough cough prairie) provinces can get it. Laws regarding booze vary wildly and I can't see the system for marijuana being any different.
For those of you who don't know, can we please get some shit out of the way about the F-35.
First off, there are currently 3 variants of the F-35:
The F-35A
The F-35B
and you guessed it, The F-35C.
The only actually F-35s that are having any major issues are the F-35B variants, because those were made to have VTOL capability. The other two variants are pretty much successes, aside from the several starting jitters all airframes have when they are first launched. This is the reason the Pentagon is continuing the program. Not because they already invested so much money into it, but because the F-35 is actually a decent aircraft if you ignore the B variant.
Go and look it up for yourself if you aren't convinced. The F-35 isn't as bad an airframe everyone makes it out to be.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48949490]For those of you who don't know, can we please get some shit out of the way about the F-35.
First off, there are currently 3 variants of the F-35:
The F-35A
The F-35B
and you guessed it, The F-35C.
The only actually F-35s that are having any major issues are the F-35B variants, because those were made to have VTOL capability. The other two variants are pretty much successes, aside from the several starting jitters all airframes have when they are first launched. This is the reason the Pentagon is continuing the program. Not because they already invested so much money into it, but because the F-35 is actually a decent aircraft if you ignore the B variant.
Go and look it up for yourself if you aren't convinced. The F-35 isn't as bad an airframe everyone makes it out to be.[/QUOTE]
well also the cockpit and pilot integration systems were a sore spot in the development too, i mean they designed the stuff back on windows 2000 and we have smart phones now, also its a bit different than the normal setups that pilots wear so there was a lot of retraining to use it, the plus side is, its full view integrated heads up display which blends cameras and supposedly even makes the plane disapear around the pilot
[QUOTE=Zeke129;48949460]On the pot topic: even if they legalize it federally it'll be a while before people in certain (cough cough prairie) provinces can get it. Laws regarding booze vary wildly and I can't see the system for marijuana being any different.[/QUOTE]
Yep, Alberta and other Conservative provinces will definitely see a lot of resistance unfortunately.
[QUOTE=Chocolate.;48949564]Yep, Alberta and other Conservative provinces will definitely see a lot of resistance unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
Well at least Alberta has an NDP premier so that may help a little bit.
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48949455]Way cheaper? The Eurofighter is only about 20 mil cheaper and the others are about 30-40. Considering how much more advanced the F-35A and the F-35C are and are comparatively slightly more expensive, it'd just make more sense to use the F-35.[/QUOTE]
Maybe for you who lives in the US but this is Canada and we don't have a bloated defense budget to just throw money at shit we don't really need. Please can you give me one good reason why we absolutely need a stealth fighter? We'd never use it to it's full capabilities so why spend the extra money on features we don't need on the off-chance that we may. Maybe 20-40 million is pennies to an American like you but to us Canadians it's a lot.
Man, i'd sure love to have a military budget we're you can get whatever the fuck you want without having to worry about the cost!
Maybe the F-35 makes sense if you see communists and terrorists under every rock idk.
[QUOTE=smurfy;48947767]How long does it take for the new dude to become PM in Canada? I assumed it would be instant like in the UK[/QUOTE]
In Commonwealth countries, the PM is elected when the Governor General elects the new Government on behalf of the Queen (so whatever the people voted for), happens in around 10 days, then Parliament resumes and everyone gets back to jerking each other off
[QUOTE=download;48944036]I was going to make a witty comment about guns and boating accidents but damn, they're actually going to dump the F35.
That sounds like a really bad idea given all of the F35's competitors are more expensive and less capable.[/QUOTE]
Guns? Boating accidents?
[sp]what's that all [B][I]aboat[/I][/B][/sp]
[QUOTE=DropDeadTed;48950174]Guns? Boating accidents?
[sp]what's that all [B][I]aboat[/I][/B][/sp][/QUOTE]
"Sorry officer, while those store records say I bought those firearms and I would ordinarily have to register them per our new liberal [ha!] government's orders, I had a tragic boating accident the other week and all my guns went overboard."
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;48949629]
Maybe for you who lives in the US but this is Canada and we don't have a bloated defense budget to just throw money at shit we don't really need. Please can you give me one good reason why we absolutely need a stealth fighter? We'd never use it to it's full capabilities so why spend the extra money on features we don't need on the off-chance that we may. Maybe 20-40 million is pennies to an American like you but to us Canadians it's a lot.
Man, i'd sure love to have a military budget we're you can get whatever the fuck you want without having to worry about the cost!
Maybe the F-35 makes sense if you see communists and terrorists under every rock idk.[/QUOTE]
Because stealth fighters are far more survivable.
I don't know if you have some strange misconception that stealth is only for attacking but it works just as well for defending your own airspace as it does invading someone elses.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;48949460]On the pot topic: even if they legalize it federally it'll be a while before people in certain (cough cough prairie) provinces can get it. Laws regarding booze vary wildly and I can't see the system for marijuana being any different.[/QUOTE]
If they legalize a substance federally doesn't that mean you can't get arrested or charged for selling it like you would sell pencils?
I mean unless the province has specific laws regarding it I think they use the federal ones to charge people.
Why don't we just buy planes from the Russians. As far as I know, their planes are pretty good and they are really cheap.
[QUOTE=Benx303;48950732]Why don't we just buy planes from the Russians. As far as I know, their planes are pretty good and they are really cheap.[/QUOTE]
Because the UN would throw a fit and the states would flat out call us communists.
[QUOTE=MIPS;48950787]Because the UN would throw a fit and the states would flat out call us communists.[/QUOTE]
Lol, why the fuck would the UN care?
[QUOTE=Benx303;48950732]Why don't we just buy planes from the Russians. As far as I know, their planes are pretty good and they are really cheap.[/QUOTE]
For very obvious reasons Russia would down right deny selling any sort of Fixed Wing platform to you due to the US being right next door. I don't think they would risk Brand New stuff getting into our hands.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;48946260]I'm confused, why do Canada or the UK need super high tech stealth strike capable jets? Seems like the dickwaving kind of defense, unless Canada secretly plans on invading a country in the near future.[/QUOTE]
Have fun Fighting Super Flankers and MiG-35s with early forth gen Hornets and Sparrows.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;48944108]so what are they going to buy instead? planes that are already outdated? chinese planes?[/QUOTE]
I'm not an expert, but going off of what military procurement competitions in the U.S. (well, the ones that are seemingly open, at least) they might still consider the F-35, but perhaps alongside other contenders instead of just going to straight to buying a bunch and not having any competition.
You need stealth because if you don't and everyone else has it then your planes are as good as scrap.
You need 65 planes because it is a big country, and assuming the F18s are retired/sold then they will be the only attack and the only fighter aircraft you have.
F35s have no doubt lower running costs than F18s, or at least will in the future
[QUOTE=download;48947970]So you have the fifth generation F35A that starts at the US$98m mark sans engine, the late fourth-generation Eurofighter Typhoon cost the UK US$190m each, while France offered to sell India the fourth-generation Dassault Rafale for US$220m each.
While the Superhornet may only be ~US$70m each, it's an early fourth generation aircraft and simply isn't in the game.
I don't see how that's cheaper than the F35.[/QUOTE]
lol the only reason it's cheaper is because the fucking engine is being sold separately.
[QUOTE=Kyle v2;48951219]lol the only reason it's cheaper is because the fucking engine is being sold separately.[/QUOTE]
You're a fool if you think a jet engine costs US$100m.
The F135 engine for the F35 is listed at US$13.5m to US$32m. Presumably the higher price is for the VTOL engine.
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
[url]http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Engines/PW-F135.html[/url]
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
It is for the VTOL engine. Bottom of the page.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;48950879]Have fun Fighting Super Flankers and MiG-35s with early forth gen Hornets and Sparrows.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, because Canada of all countries will be doing that in the near future right.
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=abcpea;48951110]You need stealth because if you don't and everyone else has it then your planes are as good as scrap.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and who are these other countries that aren't Russia, the US, and maybe China?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;48950620]If they legalize a substance federally doesn't that mean you can't get arrested or charged for selling it like you would sell pencils?
I mean unless the province has specific laws regarding it I think they use the federal ones to charge people.[/QUOTE]
It's a little more complicated than that. they're not going to just let anyone walk down the street selling pot, that's still going to be illegal. It's probably going to be regulated like alcohol, the problem is Canadian liquor laws are a cluster fuck because the federal government just leaves the provinces to deal with it however they want.
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
As a whole it'd be much better to deal with marijuana on a federal level, but a small part of me is okay with it being left to the provinces because i live in bc and i know if they leave it to us there's gonna be cheap pot dispensaries everywhere (cause that's already the case, they're just illegal)
[QUOTE=download;48950850]Lol, why the fuck would the UN care?[/QUOTE]
Aren't they the ones approving and pushing sanctions? I do believe that Canada buying fighters from them would be a violation of something.
[QUOTE=June;48951793]It's a little more complicated than that. they're not going to just let anyone walk down the street selling pot, that's still going to be illegal. It's probably going to be regulated like alcohol, the problem is Canadian liquor laws are a cluster fuck because the federal government just leaves the provinces to deal with it however they want.
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
As a whole it'd be much better to deal with marijuana on a federal level, but a small part of me is okay with it being left to the provinces because i live in bc and i know if they leave it to us there's gonna be cheap pot dispensaries everywhere (cause that's already the case, they're just illegal)[/QUOTE]
If it's left up to the provinces weed will still be illegal in Alberta I bet.
Marijuana being legal literally will not change a thing for Vancouver. It's already basically legal here... It'll just mean that you don't need membership to buy weed.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;48950620]If they legalize a substance federally doesn't that mean you can't get arrested or charged for selling it like you would sell pencils?
I mean unless the province has specific laws regarding it I think they use the federal ones to charge people.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure you'd get arrested if you tried to sell alcohol on the street to minors. Legalizing it doesn't mean "removing all restrictions of any kind forever", it doesn't mean that you'll be able to walk into City Hall puffing on a joint the thickness of a broomstick, it means regulating it.
I think I understand your opposition to pot legalization more if you think Trudeau's going to have you be able to buy and sell joints as easy as you can trade pencils. :v:
[QUOTE=isreal?;48952424]Marijuana being legal literally will not change a thing for Vancouver. It's already basically legal here... It'll just mean that you don't need membership to buy weed.[/QUOTE]
Not true, it'll enable the dispensaries to be [I]legally[/I] issued business licenses and for the City to collect all that fat tax revenue. The way the current system is set up the city is basically allowing 100+ drug-dealing establishments to operate in the open and, due to Federal law, can't move forward and treat them like the businesses both the city and the dispensary owners want them to be.
But it won't make much change in how much pot is sold or consumed, that's for sure.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;48951454]Yeah, because Canada of all countries will be doing that in the near future right.[/QUOTE]
Failing to Prepare is Preparing to Fail
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;48950620]If they legalize a substance federally doesn't that mean you can't get arrested or charged for selling it like you would sell pencils?
I mean unless the province has specific laws regarding it I think they use the federal ones to charge people.[/QUOTE]
If it's like booze you'll need a license to serve or sell it, and it'll technically be illegal to transport it across provincial borders even if it was legally purchased elsewhere.
On the other hand, if it's like booze it will be legal to produce your own for your own consumption.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;48952213]If it's left up to the provinces weed will still be illegal in Alberta I bet.[/QUOTE]
If federal law says it's legal they can not keep it illegal. They can try and keep it away from the public. That won't work though because lawsuits up the ass.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;48952797]Failing to Prepare is Preparing to Fail[/QUOTE]
And we can prepare for the future without the F-35.
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