• George Lucas Hates Star Wars: The Force Awakens
    223 replies, posted
I really didn't think the new movie was as good as you guys are making it out to be. It was filled with plot holes, too much exposition, plot moved way too fast, character development was too fast, chock full of coincidences, and he's right it was a carbon copy of a New Hope. The whole Starkiller bit felt like it was just thrown in there at the last second. You can give George Lucas a lot of shit but when he made the prequels he created new worlds, alien races, and new technology among others. I don't expect this new trilogy to ditch everything the OT had but c'mon, let's get something new at least.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;49427214]on the contrary the fact that Kylo was kind of a "pansy" was one of the things I really liked about the movie. He's trying desperately to be Vader but he's really just not, and I found that a lot more interesting than another completely generic supposed space-badass like every other sith guy we've gotten so far. [sp]I still didn't really like how Rey just trounces him after a single force vision though, given how thoroughly he was controlling the fight until then.[/sp][/QUOTE] Just that when I think sith, I think space-badasses, also to mention, how is it that Rey managed to beat a trained sith in a lightsaber duel, when she has never used one before.
I feel that people hated the prequels so much that they're willing to look past a lot of the force awakens flaws to the point where they say the movie was one in the best. Also the fact it didn't really feel star warsy. Like it looked like a star wars film, but it didn't really feel like one. At least the prequels nailed down the universe and made it feel like it was a really different place even if most of it was dumb. [sp] For example a lot of the force awakened places were simply real life locations and real life architecture. Not the more interesting distinct star wars architecture. Except for a lot of the "Not death star" which were very nice, except they felt a little bit too dirty compared to the original death star which was very clean (most of star wars is very clean). The lightsaber duels were also very well done, but they felt like two inexperienced fighters just smashing things. (not to mention the plotholes of finn all of a sudden becoming experienced with such a weapon that he can rival a sith lord)[/sp]
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49427216]I think that was the point. The Nubian ships were ultra high luxury, from a planet that wasn't a run down hellhole like most of the ones we deal with. It looked decidedly out of place on Tatooine and they made a point of that - it's why they didn't actually touch down in Mos Eisley.[/QUOTE] The muscle sound of the Nubian ship engines is one of my favorite audio moments in all of Star Wars.
[QUOTE=VanguardElite;49427235]Just that when I think sith, I think space-badasses, also to mention, how is it that Rey managed to beat a trained sith in a lightsaber duel, when she has never used one before.[/QUOTE] Kylo Ren wasn't a trained sith though, he's not sith at all. But at the same time I agree with you, he has quite a bit more training than her. People are going to throw around the "wellll she had a staff thing" too, but it doesn't explain her proficiency with a one handed weapon, or her incredible force abilities. If her incredible force abilities despite her lack of training is a plot device, that was something that should have at least been hinted at or explained-personally I think it's all due to poor writing...
[QUOTE=VanguardElite;49427235]Just that when I think sith, I think space-badasses, also to mention, how is it that Rey managed to beat a trained sith in a lightsaber duel, when she has never used one before.[/QUOTE] [sp]For starters, Kylo Ren is not a Sith. He just weilds the Dark Side. secondly, while Ren was a trained in the ways of fighting with a lightsaber, he had just killed his father so he was dealing with that, was shot by Chewie, and had just exhausted himself slightly fighting Finn.[/sp]
[QUOTE=VanguardElite;49427235]Just that when I think sith, I think space-badasses, also to mention, how is it that Rey managed to beat a trained sith in a lightsaber duel, when she has never used one before.[/QUOTE] It's not like Kylo isn't strong, it's just that he's not fully trained. This is a plot point, him being Vader-tier unstoppable just isn't how it's written. [sp]I just don't like how quickly Rey picks things up, though. You could argue that she's an experienced melee user with the staff and everything but if you actually watch the fight scene again Kylo is just thoroughly wrecking her until she has the force vision, and then she just annihilates him with a few attacks. The fact that Kylo who was already partially trained and was supposedly strong enough to wipe out Luke's efforts to rebuild the Jedi is just straight fucked by this random girl who didn't even believe she was force sensitive until yesterday... I didn't find it likable. It was weak.[/sp]
[QUOTE=VanguardElite;49427193]and as soon as Ren took off his mask, he turned from badass, to whiny pansy IMO.[/QUOTE] A lot of people seem to not get that this is the point about Ren's character. He's not meant to be portrayed as a "badass" at all. At least the villain in TFA is different from the other movies in this regard in that he's not an established seasoned evil guy but rather an unstable man-child
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;49427121]He's.. Kinda right though? You can see a conscious effort to create something new and original in every Star Wars film, even if they turn out to be total fucking wank. He always made new star ships, new Star Wars-y aliens and included new, noticeably different and original planets. The Force Awakens does ride on the back of the OT and does really play it safe. The planets they had were Not-Tatooine, Not-Yavin, Not-Coruscant, Not-Hoth. Before I get shredded for this post, I would like to point out I thought TFA was better than any prequel and is a really solid film. But George Lucas is right. They didn't try anything new.[/QUOTE] honestly after the prequels i really do not mind at all that TFA takes as much from the original trilogy and plays it as safe as it does, i wanted something to scratch that star wars itch first
[QUOTE=Mr._N;49427292]A lot of people seem to not get that this is the point about Ren's character. He's not meant to be portrayed as a "badass" at all. At least the villain in TFA is different from the other movies in this regard in that he's not an established seasoned evil guy but rather an unstable man-child[/QUOTE] Exactly - he's more of a Vader groupie. He's only a badass because there's nobody more badass than him. His Force use thus far has just been interrogation and intimidation and he has no real combat experience.
I figured he wouldn't like it since the dialogue is barebones. Despite me disagreeing with him on so many things, this film didn't really do anything new. I just got done reading through the concept art book and holy shit what a lot of great ideas just wasted.
There was a lot of parallelism going on between TFA and ANH but it's not like George never did that himself. [editline]31st December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;49427297]honestly after the prequels i really do not mind at all that TFA takes as much from the original trilogy and plays it as safe as it does, i wanted something to scratch that star wars itch first[/QUOTE] That's no excuse. That's actually quite dumb to just want the 8th (9th?) movie to play it safe and be like the others, but I understand where you're coming from.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49427159]Space politics isn't a bad idea in and of itself. The problem was he wanted that element but didn't want to go all the way with it so that kids could follow it and he could sell toys to them, so it was a weird abortion of politics and the pacing was wrong so Palpatine suddenly went through a goth phase and nobody noticed until he was the emperor. Could've been a really strong trilogy with a bit more work. And less Lucas.[/QUOTE] it was missing natural, organic moments people could relate to. only romance we see is between the queen of an entire civilization and a legendary warrior. only characters we get to root for are a whiny brat and a monk. the prequels not only lacked a protagonist, they also lacked a "blank slate" kind of character, ie luke. the guy who's just an average joe willing to do what's right, who the audience can project themselves onto and grow with.
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;49427490]That's no excuse. That's actually quite dumb to just want the 8th (9th?) movie to play it safe and be like the others, but I understand where you're coming from.[/QUOTE] it isn't that i wanted it to be played safe, i would've much preferred something that was less derivative. i went in with low expectations and came out happy to see that star wars was fun again. i will be considerably more disappointed if it remains as by the numbers (which after seeing what the next few movies are about i am not worried about).
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;49427244]I feel that people hated the prequels so much that they're willing to look past a lot of the force awakens flaws to the point where they say the movie was one in the best. Also the fact it didn't really feel star warsy. Like it looked like a star wars film, but it didn't really feel like one. At least the prequels nailed down the universe and made it feel like it was a really different place even if most of it was dumb. [sp] For example a lot of the force awakened places were simply real life locations and real life architecture. Not the more interesting distinct star wars architecture. Except for a lot of the "Not death star" which were very nice, except they felt a little bit too dirty compared to the original death star which was very clean (most of star wars is very clean). The lightsaber duels were also very well done, but they felt like two inexperienced fighters just smashing things. (not to mention the plotholes of finn all of a sudden becoming experienced with such a weapon that he can rival a sith lord)[/sp][/QUOTE] Pretty much agree with you here. It was an okay film but I honestly didn't think it felt 'Star Warsy' as you put it. The prequels had a lot of the distinct architecture that I enjoyed, George was good at setting those up even if some of it is CG which people like to complain about. Hesistant about the next ones. I'm even tempted to skip them.
Can't disagree with him, TFA felt like a rehash littered with fan-service. TFA is really forgettable.
-snip-
[QUOTE=AK'z;49427166]originality doesn't override the movie experience that's the thing. not everyone who sat down to watch the 7th star wars film, expected a whole new re-thought concept and become the next Alien movie.[/QUOTE] the problem with your argument is that 80% of the allure of the star wars franchise was always the fact that when they first came out they had things that you'd never seen before. if someone had done something similar to star wars before the OT then many of us probably wouldn't even be familiar with the star wars name. when people went to see the OT, and to a slightly lesser extent prequels, it was a spectacle because they were seeing things they never expected to see. with TFA people are seeing precisely what they expected to see. that's arguably not a very good direction to be taking the series.
Although the only good things to come out of the prequels were from stuff [i]not actually in[/i] the prequels (which are gone because of the extended universe wipe anyway), I feel that George does have a point. The new movie retreads on the classic ones so hard that[sp]I can't even in good faith point out to people which character is "The Obi Wan"; because that character has ALL of the original Obi Wan important character moments, and putting any thought at all into that spoils a shitload of the movie before you even set foot in the theater. Might as well not even see it if you can basically write down a passable replica of the script just mulling over one character.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Inspector Jones;49427139]Yeah, Force Awakens plays it safe and that's a valid criticism of the film. Still, fans are enjoying the hell out of this movie anyway. I won't really be concerned unless episodes 8 and 9 fail to deliver new ideas. And Lucas, when your new ideas include Jar Jar Binks, midichlorians, and centering everything around space politics, you can take your "new" ideas and shove them. Yeah episodes 1-3 were very different from each other doesn't make them good.[/QUOTE] Game of Thrones is centered firmly in politics and it's better for it. But it feels like believable politics. Lucas's space politics were politics in such a way 6 year old children could understand them and as such felt week, fruitless and completely unnecessary. Imagine if what we saw of the senate had the same buildup as the first book of GOT, the same backstabbing, power plays and it would culminate with the CIS breaking away (in a similar way like the north did)
the force awakens "plays it safe" cause it has to establish the new story and characters. that's an incredibly difficult thing to do. it may mirror a new hope in quite a lot of ways but the movie was still fantastic. and the numbers show it.
The [sp]final scene[/sp] however does make me optimistic for something new in terms of [sp]planets[/sp] in the future.
[QUOTE=VanguardElite;49427235]Just that when I think sith, I think space-badasses, also to mention, how is it that Rey managed to beat a trained sith in a lightsaber duel, when she has never used one before.[/QUOTE] Easy: She used the force. It told her what to do. Luke was pretty decent with a saber too once he started using the force. Hell, remember the shot on the Death Star he managed? He'd never even flown an X-Wing before. Nothing new going on here.
[QUOTE=Inspector Jones;49427139]Yeah, Force Awakens plays it safe and that's a valid criticism of the film. Still, fans are enjoying the hell out of this movie anyway. I won't really be concerned unless episodes 8 and 9 fail to deliver new ideas. And Lucas, when your new ideas include Jar Jar Binks, midichlorians, and centering everything around space politics, you can take your "new" ideas and shove them. Yeah episodes 1-3 were very different from each other doesn't make them good.[/QUOTE] yea I don't want Episode 8 to be a repeat of V
Honestly, TFA is great, did it play it safe? Yeah, but so did the early Marvel movies, they all stuck to well known storylines, heroes, and villians before diving into the more obscure ones (still can't believe we got a Guardians of the Galaxy movie). Considering how badly received the prequels were, and the spinoff Clone Wars movie (not the TV, which was great), TFA had one goal, and that was to convince the hardcore Star Wars fans that this new trilogy has promise, which I'd say is a success.
[QUOTE=catbarf;49427100]Isn't the biggest criticism people have of the new movie that it's basically just aping A New Hope instead of trying to be its own thing? I'm not seeing what's so offensively wrong about his statement.[/QUOTE] to be fair it did a LOT better than anything the prequals did him "trying something new" went insanely poorly
I want more Star Destoryers
Lucas has made it abundantly clear he doesn't know how to make good Star Wars material so I don't know why anyone would agree with him. If you're making a series like this then you should keep certain things the same. Not only does it create consistency but it's the stuff the fans are fond of and familiar with. The prequels were [I]too[/I] different and a lot of the designs don't feel like they belong in Star Wars. On the other hand The Force Awakens [I]does[/I] introduce new ship designs and planets whilst keeping familiar designs handy. Yeah, the plot retreads familiar ground but that's not what he was addressing. Also, did anyone here actually read the article? He refers to Disney as "white slavers", he's clearly an idiot.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;49428548] Also, did anyone here actually read the article? He refers to Disney as "white slavers", he's clearly an idiot.[/QUOTE] either a joke or a sign of his senile nature
[QUOTE=J!NX;49428309]to be fair it did a LOT better than anything the prequals did him "trying something new" went insanely poorly[/QUOTE] this to be honest, while it would've been nice to see something new done with the story, it's a star wars film - it's just carrying on the story and i have a feeling we're going to see true divergence from 'episode IV structure' in the next one the original films told a story, the prequels told the background behind that story - and now we're seeing the results of that same story. what happened as a result? admittedly, i'd really like to see more of the effects of the OT rather than just a few things that just kinda happened in the meantime, but i get the feeling that's the route they're going down now, if episode 8 goes down the 'not-tatooine, not-yavin, not-hoth' etc route, maybe i'll have some stronger problems with it. although, now that i think a bit more in depth, [sp]TFA ended with the first order looming on attacking the resistance base...which could lead to a hoth rehash. i'm really hoping they'll take it somewhere else though[/sp] but for now, i'm optimistic TFA spoiler-ish: [editline]31st December 2015[/editline] [sp]i did mentally yell 'OH COME ON' when they revealed starkiller base, however[/sp]
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