[QUOTE=cdr248;49430957]tbh i don't even think i knew what a senate did when i was watching those movies
i knew they were some government thingy but back in those days, that whole political side-plot went over the heads of me and my buds[/QUOTE]In the movies? A lot of fucking nothing. In the non-movie canon? They were a lot like the European Union in practice, but by the time of the Empire they were largely like the UN until he finally dissolved the entire thing.
Don't hate George, that leads to the Dark side, learn from your own material man....
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49430725]Whats this about how the original Star Wars movie was an incredible case of luck? I keep hearing it pop up.[/QUOTE]
George Lucas only directed IV and the prequel trilogy. He didn't have anything to do with V, and only wrote the screenplay for VI. His involvement with the original trilogy, past IV, is actually rather limited as he was too busy getting indebted and producing gems like Howard the Duck, a movie he personally pushed to be Live Action instead of animated.
The guy's a living conduit of horrible ideas.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49431170]George Lucas only directed IV and the prequel trilogy. He didn't have anything to do with V, and only wrote the screenplay for VI. His involvement with the original trilogy, past IV, is actually rather limited as he was too busy getting indebted and producing gems like Howard the Duck, a movie he personally pushed to be Live Action instead of animated.
The guy's a living conduit of horrible ideas.[/QUOTE]
Lucas was involved with The Empire Strike's Back. He wrote the first few drafts and is responsible for stuff like carbonite freezing, The Emperor tempting Anakin to the dark side, "I am your father" etc. Lawrence Kasdan was brought on board after all that was set in stone.
[QUOTE=Fort83;49431226]Why did he hate Empire Strikes Back? It's easily the best one.[/QUOTE]
It was more serious and grim in tone than he wanted it to be.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;49429167]Weird little thing about Star Wars though is that Anakin started training way too late according to the Jedi code and Luke started even later, so did Ezra from Rebels. But the Skywalkers are two of the most powerful force users in the galaxy and pretty Ezra is badass in his own right.[/QUOTE]
I think that as a movie, it would've been better if they'd [sp]had Kylo still fighting on his own two feet at first after the little force vision and slowly start to fuck up due to his wounds and exhaustion rather than having Rey just gut him in under ten seconds. It would've made for a more entertaining fight scene, at least.[/sp]
The only part I agree with is the new spaceships.
TFA really lacked in that regard when it's pretty much TIE fighters vs X-wings.
Yeah, George isn't wrong on this one. I hope VIII defines the ST better than VII did, because we're already getting Rogue One and Solo for more OT and if the ST is just OT 2.0 then that's 5 films worth of similar theming, era and look in 5 years.
Also what's wrong with the Naboo ship? They were produced during a time of no war, designed for royalty and leisure. That along with the rest of the Naboo stuff was interesting because it was so different to your blocky OT ships. Its part of what better defines the separate eras, the technological transition from smooth ships like that to RotS which is a mix to the OT which is blocky.
[QUOTE=angelangel;49432826]The only part I agree with is the new spaceships.
TFA really lacked in that regard when it's pretty much TIE fighters vs X-wings.[/QUOTE]
It really bothered me how it was [b]only[/b] X-Wing and TIE fighters. I was hoping to at least see Y-Wings [sp]especially for their Death Star 3 attack. Especially considering there were Y-Wings in Episode IV.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Rahu X;49430834]Episode IV was a complete mess of a film that was fully saved in editing.
Not sure about the other episodes, but it's clear that Episode V wasn't as closely tied with Lucas's vision as he wanted it to be, and was actually a better movie as a result it seems. Lucas's input on Episode VI is the reason we have the [del]Jawas[/del] ewoks, and a bunch of other little niggling details that some fans don't like about it (even though it's still a great movie overall).
I mean, we've seen what happens when Lucas gets full creative control over a movie (the prequels), though who knows, maybe it's just because he's become blinded my money.
It's ironic really. Lucas as a young director was very vocal about being "against the system", but now he's practically become the system.[/QUOTE]
Because he was doing the film with fox, episode V be didn't have nearly as much creative freedom and ironically its held up as the best star wars film to date, by the next movie he had a lot more freedom from the studio to make stupid things like ewoks and another death star and Luke+leia which wasn't a thing until he said it was
Also Lucas went out of his way to pioneer tech even when it was debilitating to the movie, like the 3 prequels were almost entirely in green screen and it made the whole thing overly expensive, painful to film for both him and the actors, and meant that you didn't know what the film would look like till after ilm was completely done, they built a handful of sets for that while the original movies used actual sets
[QUOTE=angelangel;49432826]The only part I agree with is the new spaceships.
TFA really lacked in that regard when it's pretty much TIE fighters vs X-wings.[/QUOTE]
Buy the Concept art book and get ready to be pissed at how many amazing designs (and unused ideas) they came up with.
J-wings, a new slave one, a Y/B-wing hybrid, the special forces tie fighter being hugely different, several different imperial shuttles, etc.
The worst is probably how much better the rebel transport looked with 5 different versions, but for some reason they chose a boring ass design that isn't even in the book.
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;49427244][sp](not to mention the plotholes of finn all of a sudden becoming experienced with such a weapon that he can rival a sith lord)[/sp][/QUOTE]
If that's a plot hole, then what's up with [sp]the sith lord not force-choking Finn right there and then?[/sp]
[QUOTE=TheTalon;49430032]I'm putting this in spoiler tags, MAJOR spoilers, but this is all also why I think Kylo-Ren is really well written, and isn't just a little bitch for little bitch purposes as a plot device
[sp]Kylo Ren in the start of the movie was a bad fucking ass. He comes out, calm, cool, collected. He freezes people in place with the force. Violently. He stops a blaster bolt in mid air like it ain't shit. It's yet another operation like all the rest. He's in full control of the situation and has no reason to be worried or pissed off.
Cut to the end of the movie. We know he loses his temper easily. Just fucking RAGES out of control. We know he's insecure. His reaction to when Rey says he'll never be like Vader, for instance. We also know he's insecure as shit because he wears what he wears PURELY for intimidation purposes. He's mostly a force novice who acts like a college student who's just completed year ONE of law school and thinks they now know the law. And in his world, that's probably all he needs, until the end of the movie when it really isn't. There's also his lightsaber which is very janky and poorly constructed which further shows he's a novice.
But then he kills his father, he's been embarrassed several times now, he's fucking pissed. He's wounded. He can't keep his emotions in check before all of this shit, let alone now. Remember, Luke Skywalker couldn't levitate a fucking rock unless he was fully focused, or pull his saber in the wampa cave. Rey has been fending for herself for her whole life. She fought two dudes and beat the shit out of them at the start of the movie no problem. Fin was trained from childhood as an elite Stormtrooper. (One of which brings out a melee weapon to fight him, I guess they all get martial training). And at the end, Kylo-Ren couldn't force pull the hilt to himself because he's THAT unfocused.
So all this adds up as The showdowns between Kylo Ren, Fin, and Rey are fairly even matches. Fin loses because of course he's going to. He's fighting a force user, but he's still able to hold his own a little bit. But Rey's going to win because she's found her focus and her abilities, and Kylo Ren is beating on his wound to cause himself pain to try and get his back out of desperation[/sp][/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. Kylo Ren is cool [sp]on the surface. Like in A New Hope, there's no one out there like him, so they fear him. Luke went into hiding in shame for feeling responsible not training Ben Solo (Kylo) right as a Jedi. When Rey starts discovering her abilities in the Force, he loses his mind. Killing Han was a way to disconnect him from the Light to focus on his Dark Side. He might be still not focused because he's in denial in that there's another Force-user out there that might best him, and that he hasn't found Luke yet to finish the job. His rage when it all falls apart is not him getting closer to the Dark Side, but more blinded by BOTH sides of the Force.[/sp]
Also someone's gone and made a petition to make George the director for Episode IX. Goes to show you that we can't have nice things. [url]https://www.change.org/p/disney-lucasfilm-kathleen-kennedy-george-lucas-back-to-the-star-wars-movies[/url]
[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;49435785]Pretty much this. Kylo Ren is cool [sp]on the surface. Like in A New Hope, there's no one out there like him, so they fear him. Luke went into hiding in shame for feeling responsible not training Ben Solo (Kylo) right as a Jedi. When Rey starts discovering her abilities in the Force, he loses his mind. Killing Han was a way to disconnect him from the Light to focus on his Dark Side. He might be still not focused because he's in denial in that there's another Force-user out there that might best him, and that he hasn't found Luke yet to finish the job. His rage when it all falls apart is not him getting closer to the Dark Side, but more blinded by BOTH sides of the Force.[/sp]
Also someone's gone and made a petition to make George the director for Episode IX. Goes to show you that we can't have nice things. [url]https://www.change.org/p/disney-lucasfilm-kathleen-kennedy-george-lucas-back-to-the-star-wars-movies[/url][/QUOTE]
Can we start a petition to stop that petition?
[QUOTE=Tudd;49430044]Yahhhhhhh noooooooo.
Darth Vader isn't exactly a deep character, but his depiction has a better impact in the story and does his role well as written.
Kylo Ren at best has potential, but right now is meh and comes off as a joke.[/QUOTE]
[sp]Kylo Ren is a Skywalker. He is Leia's son (who also has the force).[/sp]
One thing I'd like to also point out...
It's not been expressly stated but with the whole balance thing, the less jedi and sith there are the more powerful they become or seem to, I mean the emperor had all the Jedi killed and presumably all the force sensitive children hunted down, so you have a handful of force users, so they are really powerful as a counter, when you had a lot of Jedi and a few sith, the sith themselves were really powerful, more so than any individual Jedi
So ren, Rey, Luke and Vader being so powerful is all because there is more power to go around instead of having it balanced by many force users and it would justify kyloben's killings because he seeks more power for himself, and with Luke dead he could be even more powerful
i hope kylo's [sp]a decoy antagonist or something. he just doesn't feel like a star wars big bad[/sp]
It's a modern retelling of the old Star Wars movies, made to fit what modern audiences expect of them. I mean, Star Wars as a franchise is nearly over 50 years old, and the only context of what it used to be that people from this generation had were the horrible, "remastered" DVD re-releases. The Force Awakens is exactly what the new trilogy should have been, nobody wants a new story, nobody wants the old characters to vanish completely, nobody wants political banter and undertones.
It's Star Wars, it's not Dostoyevsky, it doesn't need to innovate, it doesn't need to be complex. There was a tried and tested formula for a Star Wars movie that George Lucas for some reason decided to eschew and it alienated a whole bunch of people from the saga's legacy. The Force Awakening's plot is similar to the original Star Wars movies because those were the ones people actually liked.
The prequels had a great story. They were just just horribly executed for the most part.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;49438953]It's a modern retelling of the old Star Wars movies, made to fit what modern audiences expect of them. I mean, Star Wars as a franchise is nearly over 50 years old, and the only context of what it used to be that people from this generation had were the horrible, "remastered" DVD re-releases. The Force Awakens is exactly what the new trilogy should have been, nobody wants a new story, nobody wants the old characters to vanish completely, nobody wants political banter and undertones.
It's Star Wars, it's not Dostoyevsky, it doesn't need to innovate, it doesn't need to be complex. There was a tried and tested formula for a Star Wars movie that George Lucas for some reason decided to eschew and it alienated a whole bunch of people from the saga's legacy. The Force Awakening's plot is similar to the original Star Wars movies because those were the ones people actually liked.[/QUOTE]
That is what will make the next generation a poor copy of the old. If people want the same star wars go watch the old trilogy.
Lucas at least wanted to expand the universe and let us see more of it.
[QUOTE=usaokay;49439365]They need to establish Snoke and the Knights of Ren more, but Disney will probably do that in other media.[/QUOTE]
i just want them to focus on the films. i don't want to have to sniff around any new EU stuff in order to be able to understand the central sequel plot :(
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49438974]The prequels had a great story. They were just just horribly executed for the most part.[/QUOTE]
No they had a horrible story, he spent half a movie convincing us amikin and padme were in love by having them frolicking through fields before he dumps her off at some dirt farmer in tatoine before heading out to slaughter sand people, then he spends the next movie convincing us padme is going to die, only to have her die in the most ridiculous, hamfisted way possible and it doesn't even fit with the dialogue from his movies
1 was bad because it was a mess, 2 was bad because it had half the movie devoted to junk we didn't really need to see, 3 was bad because Lucas spent the entire movie getting people into their places instead of telling a story
[QUOTE=Nidhogg;49427153]I'm actually pretty indifferent with the changes Lucas made to the original trilogy, but THIS one always gets to me every single time I look at it.[/QUOTE]
What even is that?
[QUOTE=kweh;49440719]What even is that?[/QUOTE]
Sy Snootles, a "Pa'lowick". She was in the original version, but basically a puppet in the background.
[QUOTE=AK'z;49427137]in essence it does feel rebootish.
but furthermore, at least it's not a crap film that overblazes you with shiny objects and flashing lights.
it's just a decent bit of popcorn movie in space that works and not some drivel noone feels anything about.[/QUOTE]
I can't tell if you're mocking JJ's use of lensflare or CGI reflections for the Prequels?
[QUOTE=Swilly;49440955]I can't tell if you're mocking JJ's use of lensflare or CGI reflections for the Prequels?[/QUOTE]
the entire prequel saga destroyed my brain with the amount of flashing lights and flying saucers.
JJ Abrams amazingly kept his glare pretty low in this movie, there are still bits and pieces of Abramism, but overall he's smoothed it out v well with his team.
[QUOTE=AK'z;49441206]the entire prequel saga destroyed by brain with the amount of flashing lights and flying saucers.
JJ Abrams amazingly kept his glare pretty low in this movie, there are still bits and pieces of Abramism, but overall he's smoothed it out v well with his team.[/QUOTE]
The only lens flare that pops out in my memory is when [sp]Starkiller Base shoots and there's a massive red lens flare.[/sp]
Perhaps I'm just acclimated to the EU, but TFA didn't seem very "serious" to me. It felt like it was aimed at children and parents that want to get their children into star wars like they might have been at their age (the tone of the movie's advertising seems to give the same impression). I remember just sitting in the theatre asking myself "this is what they replaced the EU's story with??"
The plot seems really shoddy as felt (Rey's sudden ability to beat a trained sith, the fact that the "entire fleet" of the resistance is only a few X Wings and yet they are considered a threat by the order, the constant mention of "shields" even though everything that gets shot that SHOULD have shields get damaged, a weapon that is fueled by CONSUMNG A STAR, the fact that this planet-sized weapon was destroyed by blowing up a single small station, the fact that this station wasn' more heavily guarded, etc).
I didn't think any of the characters were very relateable either. Some part of me thinks that people are enjoying this movie so much because OMG NEW STAR WARS MATERIAL, and I'm interested to see the reactions to the movie prior to that glow. I will give it one thing though, the visuals in the movie are GORGEOUS.
For the last time, Ren isn't a sith and he's still fairly early into his overall training (although he does have skill)
[sp]And again, Rey only beats him after being beaten back, and he has a severe wound.[/sp]
[editline]2nd January 2016[/editline]
Also the EU was in general hot garbage, with only a few gems. glad it all got scrapped.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49438974]The prequels had a great story. They were just just horribly executed for the most part.[/QUOTE]
It's more they had a great [B]base[/B] for a story (who didn't want to know the details about how Vader came to be, including the fact that he knew Obi-Wan), but George Lucas either couldn't write well to save his life, or nobody was willing to challenge Lucas on some of his relatively stupid ideas for creating the films.
And honestly, it's a story that's not really an easy to tell over 3 films without having to dilute the characters a bit. If the movies had a competent writer behind them, it probably could've been told in either one really focused movie (ala Citizen Kane, which Anakin's character arch seems to mimic a lot of), or a slightly longer series of films that goes into a bit more detail and background behind Anakin's training with Obi-Wan.
What the prequels are missing most of all are actual characters and characterization. We never really feel for Anakin because he doesn't have much of an established background outside of "will become Vader" or that he was the "best star-pilot in the galaxy." We really don't care about Padme because she's essentially just some high profile chick that Anakin has the hots for. The only semblance of relate-able characters in the prequels are Obi-Wan and Palpatine, because they have simple motivations.
I'd honestly love to see someone take a crack at the source material for the prequels and make good movies out of it, but I doubt that's ever going to happen.
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