• George Lucas Hates Star Wars: The Force Awakens
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[QUOTE=bdd458;49441473]Also the EU was in general hot garbage, with only a few gems. glad it all got scrapped.[/QUOTE]A few? Nah, sorry, fuck that there is a whole bunch of really good shit that all falls under the EU. I mean all that stuff with IG-88, Dash Rendar, the various X-Wing squadron stories, a bunch of kick ass shit surrounding the various Imperial military units? That's all EU baby. Don't try to tell me that Shadows Of The Empire was bad because I will fight you IRL. [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] (granted SOTE didn't always remain EU canon, but still)
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49442608]IG-88[/QUOTE] "IG-88 was leading a robolution as the Death Star II all along!!!!!!!!" was fucking retarded and don't try to tell me otherwise
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49442608]A few? Nah, sorry, fuck that there is a whole bunch of really good shit that all falls under the EU. I mean all that stuff with IG-88, Dash Rendar, the various X-Wing squadron stories, a bunch of kick ass shit surrounding the various Imperial military units? That's all EU baby. Don't try to tell me that Shadows Of The Empire was bad because I will fight you IRL. [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] (granted SOTE didn't always remain EU canon, but still)[/QUOTE] You mean the IG-88 that was actually pictured in the movies, or the IG-88 that the one in the movie sent the Death Star II plans to and then [I]uploaded himself to the Death Star II to become it?[/I] that's absolutely terrible and do not try to argue otherwise. And again, those things you listed are but a drop in the bucket compared to all the utter crap. Too much in the EU was crap, and cheapened the whole of the story as a result. RedLetterMedia did a video recently just reading off of the Legends page for Vader's armor, and oh man that shit is fucking hilarious in how fucking retarded it is. It's good Disney wiped it all, because what Star Wars needed was less random bullshit, and more coherence in the overall story. And I do hope that Story Panel or whatever they're calling it actually does keep the new EU stuff coherent and not complete and utter schlock. So far they seem to have done well with that ([I]Battlefront: Twilight Company[/I] is a fantastic read, and I hear [I]Lords of the Sith [/I]and [I]Tarkin[/I] are as well. I hear the [I]Aftermath[/I] novels aren't very good however). On the whole however, this rebooting of the universe outside of the official novelizations, TV Shows, and Movies has been a very good thing. For every KOTOR there was an IG-88 uploading himself to the Deathstar (lmao) and 5 Willrow Hoods and Mary/Marty Sue self insert characters who were on screen for a literal second.
Only thing EU I liked or knew of was the Jedi Knight series and Knights of the Old Republic. Fuck yeah Revan, The Exile, Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr.
[QUOTE=the_killer24;49443172]"IG-88 was leading a robolution as the Death Star II all along!!!!!!!!" was fucking retarded and don't try to tell me otherwise[/QUOTE][QUOTE=bdd458;49443246]You mean the IG-88 that was actually pictured in the movies, or the IG-88 that the one in the movie sent the Death Star II plans to and then [I]uploaded himself to the Death Star II to become it?[/I][/QUOTE]Fuck you both! He tried his hardest to start the machine revolution, stop bullying him! Okay, [U]that[/U] part was dumb but literally everything else about that storyline was A-OK and one retarded plot element shouldn't upset you because if it did why the fuck are you even here otherwise? I mean Star Wars has starships flying around based off of WWII combat footage and a bunch of other nonsensical shit (the Death Star in general is dumb) so I can forgive certain things that come out of such a ridiculous tale. [QUOTE=bdd458;49443246]And again, those things you listed are but a drop in the bucket compared to all the utter crap. Too much in the EU was crap, and cheapened the whole of the story as a result. RedLetterMedia did a video recently just reading off of the Legends page for Vader's armor, and oh man that shit is fucking hilarious in how fucking retarded it is.[/QUOTE]I'm not saying there wasn't dumb shit in the EU, oh yes there was, but I really don't think that it was good that Disney just nuked all of it because now: - Boba Fett's storyline is bullshit - Mandalore in general is full of pansy ass ~peaceful farmers~ when no, fuck that, the Mandalorians are goddamn cool - On that note, ANYTHING Karen Traviss did should remain canon because it was all solid fucking gold - We don't have all the wild and crazy space pirates/adventurers that the Star Wars story was more or less originally about - All that cool as fuck stuff with the video games? ALL the video games? Does that count still or what? - All those cool in-between novels, such as Shadows Of The Empire, and also some of the after stuff like Heir To The Empire and Truce At Bakara apparently never happened. - We're missing the Thrawn Trilogy. Enough said about that. - Oh and the X-Wing series. I grew up on those books. Shall I keep going? Even dumb, stupid shit like The Courtship of Princess Leia had it's good elements too. I'm not saying we need to keep all the EU but like I said in previous posts Disney needs to sit some fuckers down and pour over this shit to determine what is and isn't good from the EU. I don't like the X-Wing stories being booted out of the official canon, I think that fact alone is making me really detest the "new Star Wars" and every time I think of it I get driven further and further away. [QUOTE=bdd458;49443246]For every KOTOR there was an IG-88 uploading himself to the Deathstar (lmao) and 5 Willrow Hoods and Mary/Marty Sue self insert characters who were on screen for a literal second.[/QUOTE]Prove it. List all the bad shit versus all the good shit, you will see that they do not stack up if you don't have absurdly ridiculous standards.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49443608] - On that note, ANYTHING Karen Traviss did should remain canon because it was all solid fucking gold [/QUOTE] [B][I]UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/I][/B] [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] [url=http://www.karentraviss.com/page22/files/Is_it_true_you_hate_Jedi_.html][B][I]HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/I][/B][/url]
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49443608]stuff[/QUOTE] A completely retarded plot point can ruin an entire story, so yes a fucking droid becoming the Death Star crosses that line. And what a ridiculous asseration "hurr durr list everything ever in Star Wars". Want a taste for how shit the EU was? How about this lovely paragraph on Vader's suit? [quote]Darth Sidious, newly declared Emperor of the Galactic Empire, soon arrived and snatched what remained of Vader's body from the bank of the lava river, placing him on a medical capsule and willing him to live. He then took Vader back to Coruscant, repairing the damage to Vader's body through intensive cybernetic enhancements with help from arcane Sith healing techniques at the [B]newly renamed Emperor Palpatine Surgical Reconstruction Center[/B]. He was repaired and rebuilt over a period of several days by a hyper-sophisticated Ubrikkian prototype DD-13 medical assistant droid named DD-13/HK, a 2-1B surgical droid by the name of 2-1B/DRX, and an enhanced FX-6 medical assistant droid. The Ubrikkian "Galactic Chopper" DD-13/HK oversaw the installation of his cybernetic implants, prosthetic limbs, and synthetic organs, and the FX-6 performed numerous blood transfusions and stabilized the terrible damage done to Vader's eyes, vocal cords, scalp, face, arms, legs, and especially his lungs. Both droids spent much time connecting Vader's severed nerve endings to his new robotic parts. [B]The surgery was also less than pleasant[/B]; [B]2-1B/DRX deliberately did not perform reconstructive cosmetic surgery to Vader's face, as it would be hidden behind the mask. [/B]The process included eight hours to supply artificial implants to his internal organs, two and a half of which were dedicated to implementing the linkages. [B]Budgetary limitations [/B]and lack of effective equipment imposed by the Empire also acted as a factor to the shoddy attempts at repair, with DD-13/HK speculating that the limitations may have been deliberately orchestrated by the Emperor in order to ensure Vader didn't rebel. [B]2-1B/DRX likewise ordered for Vader's helmet to be waxed with woodoo hide in the hopes that the resulting shine would distract Palpatine from the shortcuts they were forced to implement during the surgery.[/B][/quote] the parts that made me laugh the hardest are in bold. and thats just a single paragraph. [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] the EU is filled with absolute crap like that. When it's the same couple of things that people tout for good EU shit, when there is so much stuff in the EU, then it's a fairly reasonable dedication that the majority of the EU is mediocre and forgettable or complete garbage.
[quote]"They wanted to do a retro movie. I don’t like that. Every movie I work very hard to make them completely [/quote] Kingdom of the crystal skull?
[QUOTE=Novangel;49443775]Kingdom of the crystal skull?[/QUOTE] Also most things from George "Poetry" Lucas in the prequels. He has no right to complain about reusing ideas after Jango Fett.
[QUOTE=the_killer24;49443723][B][I]UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/I][/B] [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] [url=http://www.karentraviss.com/page22/files/Is_it_true_you_hate_Jedi_.html][B][I]HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/I][/B][/url][/QUOTE] Okay wow, that's some serious bullshit right there. If that was in-universe it'd be great but calling someone a literal Nazi because they like the jedi is just... no. Traviss' writing is okay, I've always felt bad that the Commando series got cut off before the last book because of retcons.
not to mention how she literally compared everyone who didn't like her to [I]the taliban[/I] blame Traviss for not finishing RepComm, not TCW, it was her inability to deal with the changes that caused the ragequit (and she still could have written around them since in Legends, the other half of Mandalore hasn't been turned into a shithole) Zahn and every other writer pre-prequels didn't freak out when George changed the Clone Wars from their interpretation of the Clone Masters vs. the Republic, Traviss is just a fuckhead who can't deal with criticism and contrary thought
the jedi are pretty fucked up when you think about it they're a religious cult that essentially brainwashes children into becoming emotionless galactic police warriors Of course you probably shouldn't call people nazis for liking jedi for the same reason you shouldn't call people laissez faire capitalists for liking dwarves. You can have black and white morality in the context of a couple of movies but the moment you try to make an internally consistent fictional reality that sort of stuff just doesn't work. George Lucas' idea of absolute good is fucking creepy and bizarre and his idea of absolute evil is just silly.
[QUOTE=the_killer24;49443723][B][I]UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/I][/B] [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] [url=http://www.karentraviss.com/page22/files/Is_it_true_you_hate_Jedi_.html][B][I]HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/I][/B][/url][/QUOTE][QUOTE=the_killer24;49443974]Zahn and every other writer pre-prequels didn't freak out when George changed the Clone Wars from their interpretation of the Clone Masters vs. the Republic, Traviss is just a fuckhead who can't deal with criticism and contrary thought[/QUOTE]how the fuck does her opinions matter about anything, exactly? Explain that carefully for me. Explain to me how her ~personal feelings~ and how much time she needs in her hugbox actually affects words she wrote on a paper and submitted to a publisher. Like really, she could literally say "yeah but you know Hitler had some really good points about killing Jews" and it wouldn't change the fact that she made the clones extra badass. [QUOTE=bdd458;49443746]A completely retarded plot point can ruin an entire story, so yes a fucking droid becoming the Death Star crosses that line.[/QUOTE]Not for me. [QUOTE=bdd458;49443746]the EU is filled with absolute crap like that. When it's the same couple of things that people tout for good EU shit, when there is so much stuff in the EU, then it's a fairly reasonable dedication that the majority of the EU is mediocre and forgettable or complete garbage.[/QUOTE]I never liked that book though. (I can't remember what it's from but I remember reading that exact quote) I don't know what your point is besides, "YEAH YOU WANT TO SEE SOMETHING TERRIBLE THAT YOU'LL TOTALLY THINK IS DUMB?" and then show me something I didn't like anyway. Neat? I never actually said that the EU was immaculate perfection, I said specifically that it had some bad stuff and I even gave a specific example too. I mean I'll give you that most of the EU is forgettable, but I can remember more good than bad. I'm still waiting on some sort of [U]proof[/U] that there was more shit than not-shit, though. Don't quote more of the fucking description to Vader's suit to me, you seem particularly tickled by that in that you mentioned it twice but I really don't feel the same way. [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49444045]Of course you probably shouldn't call people nazis for liking jedi for the same reason you shouldn't call people laissez faire capitalists for liking dwarves.[/QUOTE]I laughed for some reason. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49444045]You can have black and white morality in the context of a couple of movies but the moment you try to make an internally consistent fictional reality that sort of stuff just doesn't work. George Lucas' idea of absolute good is fucking creepy and bizarre and his idea of absolute evil is just silly.[/QUOTE]This is really why I forgive a [U]lot[/U] of stuff and maybe it's why I'm not so critical of the EU because Star Wars has always had some very questionable elements. I've always thought the Jedi were kind of assholes and everyone in the Republic was dumb for relying on them, but hey, at least I'm not to Karen Traviss levels.
As I said, the fact that only a handfull of things are brought up everytime there's a discussion about the EU is brought up, then logic would dictste the rest is forgettable and bad. [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] and what kind of proof do you want exactly??? like do you want me to go through every god damn legends wookieepedia page in existence or something??? The fact of the matter is, that only a handful of things get brought up when people ask for good EU stuff, and far more is brought up when people are asking for bad EU stuff. I'm not sure what proof you really want exactly?? it was mostly hot garbage.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49444121]how the fuck does her opinions matter about anything, exactly? Explain that carefully for me. Explain to me how her ~personal feelings~ and how much time she needs in her hugbox actually affects words she wrote on a paper and submitted to a publisher. Like really, she could literally say "yeah but you know Hitler had some really good points about killing Jews" and it wouldn't change the fact that she made the clones extra badass. [/QUOTE] because [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bardan_Jusik]she wrote and championed those views into her books[/url], same with how she turned Halsey in Halo from a morally ambiguous "I did what I had to" mother figure to literally hitler because she personally disagreed with her methods
[QUOTE=TheTalon;49430032]I'm putting this in spoiler tags, MAJOR spoilers, but this is all also why I think Kylo-Ren is really well written, and isn't just a little bitch for little bitch purposes as a plot device [sp]Kylo Ren in the start of the movie was a bad fucking ass. He comes out, calm, cool, collected. He freezes people in place with the force. Violently. He stops a blaster bolt in mid air like it ain't shit. It's yet another operation like all the rest. He's in full control of the situation and has no reason to be worried or pissed off. Cut to the end of the movie. We know he loses his temper easily. Just fucking RAGES out of control. We know he's insecure. His reaction to when Rey says he'll never be like Vader, for instance. We also know he's insecure as shit because he wears what he wears PURELY for intimidation purposes. He's mostly a force novice who acts like a college student who's just completed year ONE of law school and thinks they now know the law. And in his world, that's probably all he needs, until the end of the movie when it really isn't. There's also his lightsaber which is very janky and poorly constructed which further shows he's a novice. But then he kills his father, he's been embarrassed several times now, he's fucking pissed. He's wounded. He can't keep his emotions in check before all of this shit, let alone now. Remember, Luke Skywalker couldn't levitate a fucking rock unless he was fully focused, or pull his saber in the wampa cave. Rey has been fending for herself for her whole life. She fought two dudes and beat the shit out of them at the start of the movie no problem. Fin was trained from childhood as an elite Stormtrooper. (One of which brings out a melee weapon to fight him, I guess they all get martial training). And at the end, Kylo-Ren couldn't force pull the hilt to himself because he's THAT unfocused. So all this adds up as The showdowns between Kylo Ren, Fin, and Rey are fairly even matches. Fin loses because of course he's going to. He's fighting a force user, but he's still able to hold his own a little bit. But Rey's going to win because she's found her focus and her abilities, and Kylo Ren is beating on his wound to cause himself pain to try and get his back out of desperation[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]I think the biggest thing people forget about Rey in this film is that she was already well trained as a melee combatant, like you said in the beginning part of the film were she just owns two dudes with her staff. [/sp]
[QUOTE=the_killer24;49444182]because [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bardan_Jusik]she wrote and championed those views into her books[/url], same with how she turned Halsey in Halo from a morally ambiguous "I did what I had to" mother figure to literally hitler because she personally disagreed with her methods[/QUOTE] I mean is there really anything wrong with pointing out that breeding a slave clone army isn't exactly the most morally upstanding thing to do? like maybe she approached it in a hamfisted and stupid preachy way but it still seems like a valid thing to explore
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49444213]like maybe she approached it in a hamfisted and stupid preachy way[/QUOTE] that's the main problem I have with her, putting the Jedi/clones in a more ambiguous light would have been great if it wasn't written as an author tract tbh her early novels weren't all that bad, the later RepComm+Legacy of the [del]Force[/del] Mandalorians was when shit started to get awful [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] and she did do a ton of worldbuilding for Mandos, but again it got super heavy handed towards the end with LotF's "IT'S THE MANDALORIANS' JOB TO KEEP THE BALANCE BETWEEN JEDI AND SITH"
I admittedly didn't read too much of the smaller EU series (or single books). A few good examples that I remember reading of that catagory are things like Outbound Flight/Survivor's Quest, Republic Commando, the Thrawn trilogy, pretty much anything written by Timmothy Zahn. When I said EU I was mostly thinking of the several massive book series that involved Jacen, Jaina, etc (specifically thinking of Young Jedi Knights, The New Jedi Order, The Dark Nest, Legacy of The Force, and Fate of The Jedi). I really enjoyed those, and I personally would have liked it if they movie-ified those. [QUOTE=the_killer24;49444225] the later RepComm+Legacy of the Force Mandalorians was when shit started to get awful[/QUOTE] Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but I really did like all of the Mandalorian stuff she added in to the series.
[QUOTE=the_killer24;49443723][B][I]UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/I][/B] [editline]2nd January 2016[/editline] [url=http://www.karentraviss.com/page22/files/Is_it_true_you_hate_Jedi_.html][B][I]HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[/I][/B][/url][/QUOTE] Now, what she thinks of the Jedi is one thing. But on that page she was asked a simple fucking question and goes berserk over it in some sort half rambling/incoherent rant on why the Jedi are bad and you should feel bad.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;49444207][sp]I think the biggest thing people forget about Rey in this film is that she was already well trained as a melee combatant, like you said in the beginning part of the film were she just owns two dudes with her staff. [/sp][/QUOTE] ya im honestly suprised nobody is pointing out her vague backstory, she has flashbacks to some kind of training, and she's obviously very trained to defend herself
well he has a point, it was a shitty star wars movie
[QUOTE=the_killer24;49444182]because [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bardan_Jusik]she wrote and championed those views into her books[/url], same with how she turned Halsey in Halo from a morally ambiguous "I did what I had to" mother figure to literally hitler because she personally disagreed with her methods[/QUOTE]Uh... but that made Halsey a better character though, because taking fucking six-year-olds and turning them into supersoldiers is a shitty, crazy fucking thing to do. Having an "ends justify the means" type of character who also takes pride and has genuine affection for her frankenbaby cyborgs is a believable thing, rather than "aw, well shucks gather 'round kids mommy loves you!" bullshit that makes Halsey seem like a fucking unlikable loon-unit. I mean what made those methods doesn't really matter if the final fucking product is better for it. I hate Stephen King's whiny political bullshit but his books are amazing and his characters are amazing, even if they come from the shit I don't like about him as a guy and not an author. [QUOTE=the_killer24;49444225]and she did do a ton of worldbuilding for Mandos, but again it got super heavy handed towards the end with LotF's "IT'S THE MANDALORIANS' JOB TO KEEP THE BALANCE BETWEEN JEDI AND SITH"[/QUOTE]Yeah, that part is what was starting to get on my nerves but it wasn't [U]necessarily[/U] a bad thing. I think if she was let to run free some more it would have finally gotten on my nerves and even I'd be like yeah, Karen, shut the fuck up.
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;49445578]well he has a point, it was a shitty star wars movie[/QUOTE] Best Star Wars movie in decades.
Everyone knows Snoke is Darth Plagas by this point. The scar on his face matches the description Palpatine gave when he said he assassinated his master in the prequels. [editline]3rd January 2016[/editline] Also it was a phenomenal movie, I don't get all the ravers calling it a garbage copy of 4. It's a movie filled with character development, and the things they complain about the most are things left for 8 specifically to flesh out and explain, or are obviously answered and they fucking missed the message.
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;49445578]well he has a point, it was a shitty star wars movie[/QUOTE] i'm so happy it wasn't a boring nerd-bonanza that's all. "URrrr galactic senate waffle and flashing lights here and there and no point then there's suddenly darth vader". That's the entire prequel trilogy there.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;49445048]people are also purposely forgetting she was sent off/got left behind by the falcon to some old guy holding her hand that could very likely be luke[/QUOTE] The hand holding her was that fat fuck handing out rations. He even talked and it was his voice let alone the greasy fat hands
It was also not the Falcon.
something i never realized was [sp]ewan mcgregor was in the movie. he speaks as obi wan at the end of rey's force vision saying "Rey, you’ve taken your first steps."[/sp]
The Force Awakens: where the dark side are complete incompetent pussies
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