• PBS: Are we becoming a police state? Five things that have civil liberties advocates nervous
    85 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33667804]ah, you went with the "all of the above" choice.[/QUOTE] Even then there will be problems, but at least there will be less
[QUOTE=Contag;33667794]yes the solution is democratic socialism, a hundred anti-trust cases and more regulation[/QUOTE] are you going to do anything to make this solution happen?
[QUOTE=Mon;33667841]so how will you make this happen?[/QUOTE] Oh, [I]I[/I] won't, because I already live in a heavily regulated social democratic state.
[QUOTE=Mon;33667813]that was with regards to leaders getting people into shit that's always going to happen i don't think that it's impossible to bring down the 1%, i just think that things aren't [I]nearly[/I] as bad as you people here think[/QUOTE] not if we went to direct democracy. I'm not sure how bad the OP thinks things are, but I'd say that the 1% living lives of luxury while the bottom 10% live lives of poverty. It's also bad that they can sway our government so much. [editline]10th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Contag;33667860]Oh, [I]I[/I] won't, because I already live in a heavily regulated social democratic state.[/QUOTE] Australia?
[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33667867]not if we went to direct democracy. I'm not sure how bad the OP thinks things are, but I'd say that the 1% living lives of luxury while the bottom 10% live lives of poverty. It's also bad that they can sway our government so much. [editline]10th December 2011[/editline] Australia?[/QUOTE] even with direct democracy, you'll still be looking at people getting people into shit - the only difference will be that it's harder to find someone to blame. (in my opinion that's a good thing) things are great in america right now. they're not as good as they could be, but they're still great. appreciate what you have right now.
Never said I didn't. I'm happy to have not been born in Russia, where political freedom is laughed at. But I still think we can improve things.
[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33667917]Never said I didn't. I'm happy to have not been born in Russia, where political freedom is laughed at. But I still think we can improve things.[/QUOTE] then don't talk about improving them, just improve them the worst you can possibly do is give in to doomsayer articles like this, which are made to make things look worse than they actually are. its stuff like this that breeds cynics, idealists, pessimists, etc.
[QUOTE=Mon;33667559]is there anything wrong with that? corporations have made a heaven for us - albeit an artificial one. they make people like [U]you[/U] happy, so they can turn a profit. that's just how things work. hold it right there. look at where you are right now. you are on an internet forum, talking to someone in a totally different country about political and social issues. you have access to [B]almost all of the world's collective knowledge[/B] here, but still you're finding time to bitch about it. do you think that's different from the past? pioneers back in the days of old worked their asses off 24/7 - day in, day out. they did that to [B]SURVIVE.[/B] [U]you[/U] have everything handed to you on a silver platter - you have creative jobs that can still earn you a living - and guess what? they don't involve a "daily grind." [editline]11th December 2011[/editline] spooter i love you [editline]11th December 2011[/editline] you can make that as homo as you want[/QUOTE] What's a creative job that doesn't require a grind? Please tell me, I work in the film industry, that is not without "grind" and its very creative work. [editline]10th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mon;33667894]even with direct democracy, you'll still be looking at people getting people into shit - the only difference will be that it's harder to find someone to blame. (in my opinion that's a good thing) things are great in america right now. they're not as good as they could be, but they're still great. appreciate what you have right now.[/QUOTE] Things aren't great. They're not the worst they could be. They're not abysmal, they're not fucking "great" though.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;33667951]What's a creative job that doesn't require a grind? Please tell me, I work in the film industry, that is not without "grind" and its very creative work.[/QUOTE] [url=Indie Games]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson[/url] [editline]11th December 2011[/editline] looking back actually, that was a dumb statement. really, all jobs have required a good amount of effort. that isn't anything new either, and really is kind of a sad thing to be upset about
[QUOTE=Mon;33667958][url=Indie Games]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson[/url] [editline]11th December 2011[/editline] looking back actually, that was a dumb statement. really, all jobs have required a good amount of effort. that isn't anything new either, and really is kind of a sad thing to be upset about[/QUOTE] Yeah Notch isnt a good example. At all.
[QUOTE=Mon;33667712]... vietnam wasn't simple at all if the US pulled out immediately, they would lose saigon, and with it, a lot influence in asia, and a shit tonne of confidence with other states they were protecting at the time. so when they [U]did[/U] pull out, do you know what happened? exactly that. the problems today are as complex as they were yesterday.[/QUOTE] Uhm, yeah. That's EXACTLY what happened. So... the problem was obviously a lot more simple because losing Vietnam didn't matter nearly as much. I wonder what losing a battle to defend our own economic rights from financial tyranny will do... [editline]10th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mon;33667958][url=Indie Games]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson[/url] [editline]11th December 2011[/editline] looking back actually, that was a dumb statement. really, all jobs have required a good amount of effort. that isn't anything new either, and really is kind of a sad thing to be upset about[/QUOTE] I'm not upset about it but I was more upset you implied creative jobs don't have a grind.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;33667951] Things aren't great. They're not the worst they could be. They're not abysmal, they're not fucking "great" though.[/QUOTE] i could go on a rant about all the things you take for granted, but i think you're too stuck up to take it to heart.
[QUOTE=Mon;33667985]i could go on a rant about all the things you take for granted, but i think you're too stuck up to take it to heart.[/QUOTE] I don't take for granted things in my life because I have complaints. I know EXACTLY what I have in my life and how amazing it is. Does this change the fact there are things to complain about or want different? If that's REALLY how you see the world, have fun with that, but I'm not arguing with you, you have a black and white view of it apparently.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;33668004]I don't take for granted things in my life because I have complaints. I know EXACTLY what I have in my life and how amazing it is. Does this change the fact there are things to complain about or want different? If that's REALLY how you see the world, have fun with that, but I'm not arguing with you, you have a black and white view of it apparently.[/QUOTE] what, because i don't believe things have gone to shit?
[QUOTE=Mon;33668015]what, because i don't believe things have gone to shit?[/QUOTE] No, because you see a complaint as a reason to call someone a moron for HAVING a complaint.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;33668020]No, because you see a complaint as a reason to call someone a moron for HAVING a complaint.[/QUOTE] i don't believe that now you're just confusing the issue
[QUOTE=Mon;33668028]i don't believe that now you're just confusing the issue[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Mon;33667985]i could go on a rant about all the things you take for granted, but i think you're too stuck up to take it to heart.[/QUOTE] Then how can you say something like this? Outright accuse me of not being aware of how great life is because I have a complaint, apparently without reason according to you. I don't give a shit you don't think the world is in trouble right now and things could be going in any sort of direction. I have no real idea of what is going on. Neither do you. From the looks of it, things have gotten worse. I can say this, and I can still know my life is good. But you can't hear that and accept I think my life is. That's my issue with this argument.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;33668056]Then how can you say something like this? Outright accuse me of not being aware of how great life is because I have a complaint, apparently without reason according to you. I don't give a shit you don't think the world is in trouble right now and things could be going in any sort of direction. [B]I have no real idea of what is going on. Neither do you.[/B] From the looks of it, things have gotten worse. [B]I can say this, and I can still know my life is good.[/B] But you can't hear that and accept I think my life is. That's my issue with this argument.[/QUOTE] these are the wisest things you have said so far we're not the people who should be talking about how the world is going - we've only got a fragment of the whole picture - but to say things are bad because of a state of uncertainty is just jumping to conclusions. have some more confidence in the system - and make peace with it too.
I take issue with the article because it is largely sensationalist crap. But that fact stands that the country, and pretty much the whole world for that matter, is in deep shit and its not getting any better. There are just serious matters that the article hardly even touches on and instead choose to fear-monger over the most headline-grabbing ones. You know, bought politicians, economic inequality, rampant corruption, the blatant abuse of people exercising their first amendment rights. Those kinds of things. [editline]11th December 2011[/editline] Can we agree on that? Sensationalist article that completely misses the point, but things are genuinely shit and not getting any better.
[QUOTE=Mon;33668089]these are the wisest things you have said so far we're not the people who should be talking about how the world is going - we've only got a fragment of the whole picture - but to say things are bad because of a state of uncertainty is just jumping to conclusions. have some more confidence in the system - and make peace with it too.[/QUOTE] You know what, none of us know and anyone that does know isn't doing anything about it. I'm not mad at the system, i'm tired of being apathetic about this. I've actually reached my own personal breaking point on apathy. I'm tired of not being able to care or influence this system. That I'm a subject to it infinitely the same as you and most others. I'm not mad I'm not on top. I couldn't care less. I'm mad we're not all on top. /off topic rant. [editline]10th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33668127]I take issue with the article because it is largely sensationalist crap. But that fact stands that the country, and pretty much the whole world for that matter, is in deep shit and its not getting any better. There are just serious matters that the article hardly even touches on and instead choose to fear-monger over the most headline-grabbing ones. You know, bought politicians, economic inequality, rampant corruption, the blatant abuse of people exercising their first amendment rights. Those kinds of things. [editline]11th December 2011[/editline] Can we agree on that? Sensationalist article that completely misses the point, but things are genuinely shit and not getting any better.[/QUOTE] Never once did agree on the article. Never even stated so. It's a piece of shit mostly.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;33668156]You know what, none of us know and anyone that does know isn't doing anything about it. I'm not mad at the system, i'm tired of being apathetic about this. I've actually reached my own personal breaking point on apathy. I'm tired of not being able to care or influence this system. That I'm a subject to it infinitely the same as you and most others. I'm not mad I'm not on top. I couldn't care less. I'm mad we're not all on top. [/QUOTE] are you suggesting socialism?
[QUOTE=Mon;33667958][url=Indie Games]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson[/url] [editline]11th December 2011[/editline] looking back actually, that was a dumb statement. really, all jobs have required a good amount of effort. that isn't anything new either, and really is kind of a sad thing to be upset about[/QUOTE] You're right, Notch does have a job that doesn't have grind. His job is to endlessly vacation instead of working.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;33668222]You're right, Notch does have a job that doesn't have grind. His job is to endlessly vacation instead of working.[/QUOTE] The wonders of being a 1 percenter.
[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;33666689]I wasn't referring to the specifics of the story, I was referring to the fact that the UK is more of a police state[/QUOTE] Wrong. You need to have competent leaders to get that far. At the moment, it's loads and loads of cameras without half the security they should provide.
[QUOTE=sHiBaN;33667421]Freedom? That statement is exactly what's wrong with the USA. Freedom to what? Where? Even to the very roads we use and the places we work, has been designed by corporations and conglomerates. Your suburbian commerical neighborhood has been planned out even to the very places where you'd want to hang out and purchase your products. Oh how convenient, a supermarket! Oh cool, a strip mall with the same cookie-cutter stores! I don't have to go anywhere anymore since we're all in this bubble anyway. Goodness forbid we don't have progression and stimulation of our minds anymore. The masses resort to things that are detrimental to societal and human advancement as a species. Sure, I might sound entirely pessimistic here, even at times dramatic, but it's hard man. Not everyone has the luxury to enjoy all their "freedom" when we barely have any freedom at all to live our lives. We're stuck on constant grind unless you're one of the wealthy today. Ofcourse, there's those fleeting moments of ecstacy but what's the use when you know you still have to face the problems the next day? It's not a trend, it's not a conspiracy theory. The facts are here and people seem to just cover their eyes and ears and scream LALALALALA. One day the roof will come crashing down unto our heads and what did we do to ready ourselves?[/QUOTE] I, uhh...Am not really following your point here, at all. You're saying you want to go offroading or something? Yes, our roads are designed to facilitate commerce. Commerce is generally run by large groups of people working together. People have placed basic necessities within driving, and sometimes walking distance of the homes of their clients. Is this supposed to make me feel trapped or overwhelmed? I'd like you to name one way in which people are more obsessed, now, with media and mindless stimulation then they used to be. I don't know if you know this, but our ancestors worked themselves mindless throughout the day for hundreds of thousands of years, drinking to ease the pain and reading if they knew how. In the last two hundred years things like pubs and bars and stadiums became things the average man could go and do and that's how people spent their time. They didn't go to have stimulating discussions on art of politics. They went to let off steam. These people usually working 60-80 hour weeks at this time, by the way. The "grind" as you call it is pretty much a joke compared to all of human history. You're acting like we don't have more museums, historical landmarks, public libraries, sources of solid information, and independent news outlets than at any other point in the history of human civilization. I mean, in what way have we degraded in intellectual stimulation? Those who wish to do it still can. Those who don't, don't. You know what the most popular show of 60 years ago was, long before this era of mindless grind and corporate control and etc. etc. etc.? The Three Fucking Stooges. Some serious intellectual stimulation going on right there. These aren't facts. This is you looking at people not caring as much about the issues you do and declaring the entire country is like this.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33668127]I take issue with the article because it is largely sensationalist crap. But that fact stands that the country, and pretty much the whole world for that matter, is in deep shit and its not getting any better. There are just serious matters that the article hardly even touches on and instead choose to fear-monger over the most headline-grabbing ones. You know, bought politicians, economic inequality, rampant corruption, the blatant abuse of people exercising their first amendment rights. Those kinds of things. [editline]11th December 2011[/editline] Can we agree on that? Sensationalist article that completely misses the point, but things are genuinely shit and not getting any better.[/QUOTE] Honestly things aren't that bad. At least from a historical perspective. Quality of life is going up, technology is moving forward, more people are living in better conditions everywhere. The things that are bad are nothing unprecedented or earth shattering. Economic downturns have been happening for centuries, going up and down, and for the same reasons this current one has. The status of our civil liberties is, while more precarious than I'd like, at nowhere near the state of devastation and loss that many say it is. We're not in a police state, and the economy isn't going to collapse. This doesn't mean we should sit pretty, we should always work to make things better. Economic regulation, civil Service reform, civil rights reform, tax reform, and removals of infringements of civil liberties like the deplorable Patriot Act are all on the table of things that need done. But we do need to recognize how far we've come and how good we have it.
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